How Can I Stop Wifes Family From Mortgaging My House

[zorro1]

I should have been clearer I was talking Condo in my case. What do you mean by you own diddley squat? I have freehold and there are ways to own land in your company name. Not sure what you mean

The OP wrote HOUSE.

That's what I referred to.

Please try to keep up.

why cant he own a house? if he can buy a house and then sell it how does he own didley sqaut? please keep up

[Theyreallrubbish]

You could always get the house mortgaged at the start and keep the money in your own account.

Then when the family to try and get another mortgage they'll either be told no, or be limited to the difference between your mortgage and any increase in the valuation.

You have to pay interest on the mortgage, but interest rates aren't high here and you'll have the money available to invest to try and earn more than the interest rate. Plus if things go really bad and your relationship breaks down for any reason you won't have lost the full amount of cash you put in to the house. IF she wants to kick you out and keep the house she'll be left with a mortgaged house instead of a free house. Minimises the temptation at the very least!

I also agree with the previous poster that registering the house with land department as collateral to a loan you've issued may work, but I'd be a bit worried with anything that's fake that someday someone may ask to see the evidence of transfer of funds from you to the property owner to prove the loan is real. Or worst case, the family insist you actually hand over the money, you signed a document that told the land department you had loaned, to the property owner!

[SMEEERE]

I think way too many foreigners tell their "loved ones " their financial standing, why get into all this building/buying rubbish, ,keep your cards close to your chest and play down your financial wellbeing id say,.i told my wife i was poor and a renter, we have married and are very happy,i have never had any in law demands ,mainly becuase i made it clear from the start i was not a wealthy man, if you give in and start giving to some of these sorts you will be milked dry, be aware,.

[F4UCorsair]

I had property in Indonesia a while back, and registered a mortgage for way in excess of what the property was worth; that precluded my local partner in whose name the property ws held from using it for security to borrow, and since it was for a lot more than the property's actual value, it took care of inflation and I didn't have to renew the mortgage at any stage.

[harrry]

A husbands or wife's consent is required to register a mortgage or sell land isn't it?

Edited August 21, 2009 by harrry

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

To buy anything and put it in your Thai wife's name is such a completely bad idea it would probably qualify as lunacy. Even if she is honest as the day is long and loves you unconditionally, her first loyalty may well be to her family when push comes to shove. If the family is a bad lot then it would be a completely loony thing to do, better to just hold out your wallet and say 'help yourself'.

Sorry to say this but the odds against you knowing and loving the one decent person in an otherwise disreputable family are so long you should not take the punt.

Kev

[alexanderthai]

Not sure as to the reasoning behind not building and better to rent, Comes a time in your life where your home is your castle. I hate hate renting, you never really feel at home being to scared to place a nail in the wall in case they take your bond money`lol so I can see the attraction in owning but NEVER in anyone else s name unless your building a house with beer money, everything relative of course

In Thailand, your home is not your castle, you own diddley squat, even though you have paid for it!

Unless you are lucky enough to lease the land the house is on. Rare.

I've never had a problem renting as I always ask the owner can I do this & that and get it in writing.

easy !!

1. Get the house in your company name ( Register company by being president )

2. if it's her name, use that tittle deed mortgage by your name.YOu 've just pay for the fee at land department a year.

I hope it's clear for you guyz....

[eljeque]

The mortgage is the best idea, but not in your name.

If you two are legally married, and she wants a divorce, then her legal argument could be something to the effect of "How could I owe myself" (mariage being a partnership). The agreement may then be scrapped, or at least under review. Do not take this risk.

It would be better to have a friend or a family member of yours pretend to lend the money for the property which you have actually paid for, and yes it is registered as a mortgage at the land office. Register it for the full property value. If she ever wants to boot you out, then your friend-the lender, can demand payment for the mortgage and he can sell the property.

[chiangmaibruce]

The mortgage is the best idea, but not in your name.

<snip>It would be better to have a friend or a family member of yours pretend to lend the money for the property which you have actually paid for, and yes it is registered as a mortgage at the land office. Register it for the full property value. If she ever wants to boot you out, then your friend-the lender, can demand payment for the mortgage and he can sell the property.

Correct. There are issues and risks associated with registering a mortgage against property owned by your wife, for the purpose of securing some sort of hold over the property. Some land department officers will refuse to even register such an agreement. Agreements between husband and wife can also be later set aside (CCC Section 1469). There is also a possibility that a mortgage would be seen to constitute an interest in the land which could be contrary to the statement provided by the farang spouse that the land belonged wholly to the Thai spouse. Eljeque's approach gets around this.

It is even possible that there may need to be (in the event of a later divorce or legal challenge) a paper trail showing that mortgage repayments have taken place... to prove that it was a bona fide loan and not another variation of holding property via Thai nominee

[chiangmaibruce]

easy !!

1. Get the house in your company name ( Register company by being president )

2. if it's her name, use that tittle deed mortgage by your name.YOu 've just pay for the fee at land department a year.

I hope it's clear for you guyz....

1. You mean buy the house in the name of a Thai company in which you hold not more than 40% of the paid up capital? You could hold up to 49.9%, but if you hold more than 40%, and the company buys a property, then the arrangement will be subject to greater scrutiny - and possible subsequent sanctions. See many prior threads about the real risks associated with this approach.

2. See comments re: mortgage in wife's name in another post by me in this thread.

Sometimes "easy" is neither bright nor right

Edited August 21, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[xylophone]

As I understand it, a good way to go is where you own (buy) the house and lease the land from your wife.........all drawn up with contracts to match AND you keep the docs.

In Thai law if you own the house/building you have "control" over the use of the land and can stay there even if you and wife are no longer together. AND as a rule a bank will not lend against the house/land unless they view the original titles to see whether there is a loan against it.

[dsfbrit]

Not sure as to the reasoning behind not building and better to rent, Comes a time in your life where your home is your castle. I hate hate renting, you never really feel at home being to scared to place a nail in the wall in case they take your bond money`lol so I can see the attraction in owning but NEVER in anyone else s name unless your building a house with beer money, everything relative of course

I agree with you about your home being your castle. The trouble is if you want that then unless you buy a condo in your own name - you wont get that 'castle' here in Thailand. I have a house I love - and bought via the company route. It was a mistake -to do this as its illegal. Sure I know it will never be confiscated by the Thai authorities, but there is always that niggly doubt it could be.

Anyway, as for the Usufruct meaning that a Thai could not borrow money against it - forget it. Maybe not a reputable bank, but there is always someone who will lend money at some extortionate rate. As for the reason a Thai wife would give money to her family - its called family pressure. I gave my wife 500,000 Baht to open up a Karaoke bar. During the 6 months we spent looking for a suitable venue the father and just about every relative (and friend) she had, phoned her constantly. In one day she had 3 phone calls in an hour about borrowing money - that is no exaggeration.

I found out she had just 40,000 Baht left when we came to set up the business. I stopped the other 500,000 Baht I was going to give her and took a long hard look at our relationship.

She is NOT a bad person, but if you think your wife will choose you over her family if they have money worries, then you are a very lucky man indeed - and not common with most of the stories my farang friends tell me.

On a positive note, 5 years have passed since this money was given away. I am very happy with my wife. I just make sure I control all the money

So to the OP I say - do not put anything in your wifes name if you can avoid it and are prepared to walk away from it later on.

Edited August 22, 2009 by dsfbrit

[chiangmaibruce]

I gave my wife 500,000 Baht to open up a Karaoke bar. <snip> I found out she had just 40,000 Baht left when we came to set up the business. I stopped the other 500,000 Baht I was going to give her and took a long hard look at our relationship.

That's an amazing story dsfbrit. Out of curiosity, how much money (if anything) eventually came back to you?

[chiangmaibruce]

As I understand it, a good way to go is where you own (buy) the house and lease the land from your wife.........all drawn up with contracts to match AND you keep the docs.

In Thai law if you own the house/building you have "control" over the use of the land and can stay there even if you and wife are no longer together. AND as a rule a bank will not lend against the house/land unless they view the original titles to see whether there is a loan against it.

Just to clarify that:

1. You need to legally separate the house and land, which is difficult (some say impossible) if the house is already built when your wife buys the land. The normal process for people who go down this path is for wife to buy land then farang gets permit to build house, then registers himself as owner of the house (which is noted on chanote)

2. Just being the registered owner of the house gives you no control over the land or access to the house (unless the owner approves this). That would be like saying "I am the owner of a car so I control the car park in which it is parked". In fact the owner of the land could demand you to remove the house (car). To have guaranteed access rights to your house then you need to get a lease from the owner of the land, as you suggested.

Edited August 22, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[philo]

Pretend you are broke then if she stays with you she really loves you.

Excellent advise. If she is not willing to stay with you in a rented place - even infested with cockroaches - dump her and find another one.

A poster above said 'My home is my castle'. Not in this country. Your money (what is left of it), your feet and your passport is the only things you can trust.

Edited August 22, 2009 by philo

[Pez]

There is a way you can protect yourself from being forced from the property and loans being taken out against it. You go to a reputable lawyer to draw-up an agreement that states you can use the property for as long as you wish. Also a clause that states that loans cannot be taken out against the property.

Your wife and you have to sign this agreement - also the Blue Book has to be held by the lawyer or Bank cos without it no loan can be made.

[dsfbrit]

I gave my wife 500,000 Baht to open up a Karaoke bar. <snip> I found out she had just 40,000 Baht left when we came to set up the business. I stopped the other 500,000 Baht I was going to give her and took a long hard look at our relationship.

That's an amazing story dsfbrit. Out of curiosity, how much money (if anything) eventually came back to you?

Came back to me Now that would have been nice. Nothing I am afraid. I had another 500,000 Baht 'earmarked' for this business. However in the time we spent looking for a suitable location, about 6 months in all, I realised that I would be doing the managing, accounting, hiring and firing etc... and my wife (bless her) would be singing karaoke songs with ther friends and family. It would also be a great place for her family to come and work

Her family lives about 12 hours away in Issan and I realised I was opening up a very very large 'can of worms'. I suspect they would all be living with me by now - no thanks!

I cancelled the whole project, did not bring over the other 500,000 baht from the UK and wrote the whole thing off as a learning exercise in my new country.

In the 5 years since this occurred, I have on odd occassions given her more freedom to control the money - each time a mistake. She has no ability to say no to her family - even her friends 'borrow' money from her. Borrow money - in Thai the phrase as you may know - is 'yerm ngeugn', however I joke with my wife it means 'give me money and you will never see it again'.

Like I say, she is not a 'bad person' as such, but when it comes to her controlling money - no way - I now give her a weekly allowance to do with as she pleases. I have told her I will never start any business with her. I do make some donations to her family for certain projects, these are mainly to provide them with better living facilities ie: new kitchen and ceiling for a house. I helped one sister when she had a motorbike stolen. Thats it though. I used to pay her parents a monthly 'pension', but got no thanks for it, in fact there was some emotional presssure to maintain this pension even when the exchange rate nosedived last year. They seemed to be totally bored by my problems with banks in the UK - so I stopped their pension in April. I dont expect grovelling thanks and am pleased to help those worse off than me, but I dont like being taken for granted nor being considered a mug by those I am helping.

I have a house in the company route, looked to change it to a 30 year lease or Usufruct. After much research and even starting the Usufruct procedure with Sunbelt, I pulled out. The company route, for me anyway, is the best of a bad bunch of methods to 'own' land. If I had known about Thaivisa 6 years ago and had all this good advice the Op is getting (and will probably ignore) - I would never never NEVER have bought land over here by any method.

If you want to own land, then buy in your own country (in my case the UK) and rent over here!!

Edited August 23, 2009 by dsfbrit

[Geroc]

Hi Siamkiwi !

Your question is very important.

As you know, you can't buy in your own name a land. You could buy (under condition) a condo, but a condo is not a house on a land !

You know that your money, even if you're not very rich in your country, makes you as a billionaire for 80% of the Issan farmers, who have sometimes difficulty to earn 2 or 3000 baht a month... You certainly know that your wife doesn't love you only for your beer belly, your hairy body and your bad tempered ? That's not for you Siamkiwi, but for some other guys !

So you have 2 possibilities :

- you buy with a Co Ltd.

If you set up it with a good lawyer, it's secure and that's actually the best solution.

- you buy in your wife's (g/f) name.

You have to imagine that your relations can change, and when a couple splits up, the money is ALWAYS a problem.

So you have in this case to protect your purchase : with a good lawyer, in the same time you buy, you record a mortgage in your favor for a amount at least equal with the price you pay. The mortgage will be written on the Chanote. Of course, you keep the Chanote !

Your lawyer prepares a document for you can stay in the house, and another for you wife has to pay interests (7% for exemple) every year for the money you lent to her for buying the land/house.

If she doesn't pay (in reality if you split up), you can ask the Court to order the sell of the house and you'll get back the money you lend.

With this setting, you wife can't sell the house, nor borrow money on it, and you can sell if you want.

On your side, you can make a will on her favor (you're surely older !), and also, engage to give her a part of the selling price if you split up.

Good luck

[hhgz]

"I'm not really into appartment lifestyle."

I guess that you prefer "my wife and her family have stolen everything I have and now I have nothing" lifestyle.

[Sturbuc]

You could always get the house mortgaged at the start and keep the money in your own account.

Then when the family to try and get another mortgage they'll either be told no, or be limited to the difference between your mortgage and any increase in the valuation.

You have to pay interest on the mortgage, but interest rates aren't high here and you'll have the money available to invest to try and earn more than the interest rate. Plus if things go really bad and your relationship breaks down for any reason you won't have lost the full amount of cash you put in to the house. IF she wants to kick you out and keep the house she'll be left with a mortgaged house instead of a free house. Minimises the temptation at the very least!

I also agree with the previous poster that registering the house with land department as collateral to a loan you've issued may work, but I'd be a bit worried with anything that's fake that someday someone may ask to see the evidence of transfer of funds from you to the property owner to prove the loan is real. Or worst case, the family insist you actually hand over the money, you signed a document that told the land department you had loaned, to the property owner!

Sorry but i don't know if there's a "land charge in favour of the owner" like here which means the property looks like mortgaged but the paper is in your hand (to be used for beeing mortgaged on short notice; so bee careful!). Put this paper in the save of another bank on your name only; no interest to be paid.

[Livinginexile]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

To buy anything and put it in your Thai wife's name is such a completely bad idea it would probably qualify as lunacy. Even if she is honest as the day is long and loves you unconditionally, her first loyalty may well be to her family when push comes to shove. If the family is a bad lot then it would be a completely loony thing to do, better to just hold out your wallet and say 'help yourself'.

Sorry to say this but the odds against you knowing and loving the one decent person in an otherwise disreputable family are so long you should not take the punt.

Kev

Never a truer word spoken!

Good advice for anyone thinking about buying land in their wife's name.

Well said

[Marvo]

Re the risks associated with "owning" a house via the Co. route Vs "owning" in the partner's name arguments...

I recall seeing a couple of times, these two questions asked:

How many foreigners in Thailand have lost their home/money by buying through their Thai partner... and

how many foreigners in Thailand have lost their home/money by buying through a Thai company?

Edited August 28, 2009 by Marvo

[GungaDin]

SiamKiwi.

Hi.....

how old are you & how old is your girlfriend?

cheers

[CaptainNemo]

The HSBC.co.th site seems to say that if you get a renewable 1 year non-immigrant resident (spouse?) visa; and you've got an income over over £6,500-ish a year; and can put down a deposit of at least 20%, that you can get a mortgage in Thailand - in your name.

I dunno how accurately I've interpreted this, but it sounds like a better state of affairs than even the Condominium rules.

Anyone got any experience of this please? It might help the OP and others out too.

Pretend you are broke then if she stays with you she really loves you.

...but then she might leave you for lying to her about being broke! That'd be gutting - putting your wife to the test, finding out she's the salt of the earth, then losing her because you lied to her and didn't trust her! Hmm...

[CaptainNemo]

The mortgage is the best idea, but not in your name.

If you two are legally married, and she wants a divorce, then her legal argument could be something to the effect of "How could I owe myself" (mariage being a partnership). The agreement may then be scrapped, or at least under review. Do not take this risk.

It would be better to have a friend or a family member of yours pretend to lend the money for the property which you have actually paid for, and yes it is registered as a mortgage at the land office. Register it for the full property value. If she ever wants to boot you out, then your friend-the lender, can demand payment for the mortgage and he can sell the property.

What, you mean you think it's a workable idea to ask a friend of yours to write a letter saying they are lending you thousands of whatever currency to buy a house; then put the mortgage in whose name?!

That sounds awfully complicated and messy - I can't imagine a proper friend really being interested, it sounds like it would just complicate and spoil your friendship.

[stgrhe]

The HSBC.co.th site seems to say that if you get a renewable 1 year non-immigrant resident (spouse?) visa; and you've got an income over over £6,500-ish a year; and can put down a deposit of at least 20%, that you can get a mortgage in Thailand - in your name.

HSBC provide only loans to properties in the Bangkok metropolitan area-

[Datsun240Z]

Pretend you are broke then if she stays with you she really loves you.

Excellent advise. If she is not willing to stay with you in a rented place - even infested with cockroaches - dump her and find another one.

A poster above said 'My home is my castle'. Not in this country. Your money (what is left of it), your feet and your passport is the only things you can trust.

well said gentleman

[Livinginexile]

The HSBC.co.th site seems to say that if you get a renewable 1 year non-immigrant resident (spouse?) visa; and you've got an income over over £6,500-ish a year; and can put down a deposit of at least 20%, that you can get a mortgage in Thailand - in your name.

I dunno how accurately I've interpreted this, but it sounds like a better state of affairs than even the Condominium rules.

Anyone got any experience of this please? It might help the OP and others out too.

Pretend you are broke then if she stays with you she really loves you.

...but then she might leave you for lying to her about being broke! That'd be gutting - putting your wife to the test, finding out she's the salt of the earth, then losing her because you lied to her and didn't trust her! Hmm...

So you think she will leave if she finds out you're richer than you've been letting on?

Yeah right She wont leave.

As long as the money keeps rolling in she's not going anywhere

[bernardthailand]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

Put the house in your name if you can. If you are buying a house already built, then get a usufruct attached to the land title. A bank won't lend against property with a usufruct attached.

I am busy to look to buy a house. I am not yet married. But I want to secure my investment if my fiancée die before me or we fight or she want to help is family and make a mortgage.

The best that I find to now is usufruct and it seem that it is advantage to do before you get married.

Take a look on this website, it is cheap to do. Less than a lease 30 years contract.

Now when first I speak about, she was angry but I explain that I case or she die before me I cannot know how 2 sons and maybe later the sons wife's can react .

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/usufruct_online.html

http://www.isaanlawyers.com/property.html

[stgrhe]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

Put the house in your name if you can. If you are buying a house already built, then get a usufruct attached to the land title. A bank won't lend against property with a usufruct attached.

I am busy to look to buy a house. I am not yet married. But I want to secure my investment if my fiancée die before me or we fight or she want to help is family and make a mortgage.

The best that I find to now is usufruct and it seem that it is advantage to do before you get married.

Take a look on this website, it is cheap to do. Less than a lease 30 years contract.

Now when first I speak about, she was angry but I explain that I case or she die before me I cannot know how 2 sons and maybe later the sons wife's can react .

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/usufruct_online.html

http://www.isaanlawyers.com/property.html

You might consider a will too while you are at it, and in case you are considering a prenuptial agreement this must be signed before the marriage is registered to be valid in Thailand.