Raising Bi/multi-lingual Children

[SoftWater]

The thread about (and now with) Stu Jay Raj got me to thinking whether forum members have knowledge or experience about raising bilingual or multi-lingual kids. I'm sure there are many people on TV like me who have a Thai partner and ลูกครึ่ง kids.

Questions abound about whether each parent should only speak to their kid(s) in their mother tongue, or whether it is good/harmful for (say) my wife to speak in English or for myself to speak in Thai. I have plenty of folks opinions about this, but none of them are based on either real personal experience or solid academic research. I'd love to know what Stu or any other experts in language can tell me, particularly if you yourself learned two (or more ) languages from parents of different nationalities.

Thanks

(BTW: note to Mod - I know there is a parenting forum, but I am looking for the opinions of language experts, not parenting "experts").

Edited August 21, 2009 by SoftWater

[kokesaat]

The thread about (and now with) Stu Jay Raj got me to thinking whether forum members have knowledge or experience about raising bilingual or multi-lingual kids. I'm sure there are many people on TV like me who have a Thai partner and ลูกครึ่ง kids.

Questions abound about whether each parent should only speak to their kid(s) in their mother tongue, or whether it is good/harmful for (say) my wife to speak in English or for myself to speak in Thai. I have plenty of folks opinions about this, but none of them are based on either real personal experience or solid academic research. I'd love to know what Stu or any other experts in language can tell me, particularly if you yourself learned two (or more ) languages from parents of different nationalities.

Thanks

(BTW: note to Mod - I know there is a parenting forum, but I am looking for the opinions of language experts, not parenting "experts").

Lots of ลูกรึ่ง kids in Udon speak passable English, but there are a few who speak really great English. The fathers don't try to speak Thai to their kids....which means their kids must speak English with them. The young girl who speak exceptional English has a father who insists that the girl watch only watch English speaking TV shows....as much as her heart desires, but only in English. And, when the mother and father are together with the daughter, it's English only rules for all three. The mother can speak whatever when the father isn't in the same room. Sounds strict.......but you'd swear the girl was schooled in the US if you heard her speak.

Probably the worst thing you could do is talk grammatically-bad Thai with her or with her mother in her presence. The kid's going to get all the Thai he/she'll need at school, with friends, etc.

If I had to do it all over again with our fully grown daughter, I'd adopt the stricter way to language control in the house.

[SoftWater]

The thread about (and now with) Stu Jay Raj got me to thinking whether forum members have knowledge or experience about raising bilingual or multi-lingual kids. I'm sure there are many people on TV like me who have a Thai partner and ลูกครึ่ง kids.

Questions abound about whether each parent should only speak to their kid(s) in their mother tongue, or whether it is good/harmful for (say) my wife to speak in English or for myself to speak in Thai. I have plenty of folks opinions about this, but none of them are based on either real personal experience or solid academic research. I'd love to know what Stu or any other experts in language can tell me, particularly if you yourself learned two (or more ) languages from parents of different nationalities.

Thanks

(BTW: note to Mod - I know there is a parenting forum, but I am looking for the opinions of language experts, not parenting "experts").

Lots of ลูกรึ่ง kids in Udon speak passable English, but there are a few who speak really great English. The fathers don't try to speak Thai to their kids....which means their kids must speak English with them. The young girl who speak exceptional English has a father who insists that the girl watch only watch English speaking TV shows....as much as her heart desires, but only in English. And, when the mother and father are together with the daughter, it's English only rules for all three. The mother can speak whatever when the father isn't in the same room. Sounds strict.......but you'd swear the girl was schooled in the US if you heard her speak.

Probably the worst thing you could do is talk grammatically-bad Thai with her or with her mother in her presence. The kid's going to get all the Thai he/she'll need at school, with friends, etc.

If I had to do it all over again with our fully grown daughter, I'd adopt the stricter way to language control in the house.

Thanks for sharing that Kokesaat - this is the kind of thing that makes 'common sense', but raises the kind of questions I have in mind.

We pretty much do the same thing as the family you talk about (my kids love watching cartoons, but only English is allowed; result is that even tho' my kids favour Thai over English in their own language production, they now will complain if the cartoons are switched over to Thai language {such as when other Thai kinds are visiting, and we try to be fair to our guests and let them switch to Thai, my kids will start complaining about it; ironically they will complain in Thai that they want to watch the cartoon in English!!}).

However, we haven't defined a rule for what language can be used when both mum and dad are together with the kids, and in fact we both tend to switch between languages; also, try as I may, sometimes it is difficult not to accidentally slip into Thai with the kids.

Your point that "probably the worst thing you can do is speak grammatically bad Thai' (conversely, my wife speak grammatically bad English) with the kids is a moot point. The kids, as you rightly say, get all the Thai input they need from native speakers, and the "anubarn" school they go to, which leads me to believe that in fact, my Thai input will have no effect on their Thai language development (of course, it should have a negative effect on their English language development if I use Thai when I should be using English; that seems obvious enough).

My wife speaking English to them is another matter, and precisely the reason I'm looking for anyone who has expert knowledge or opinion here. I feel the kids need more English input and - probably more importantly, more encouragement to produce English in their output - and the EASIEST way to increase both of these is when talking to their mum (perhaps at certain time, or for certain topics?), since she spends more time with them per day than I do.

While I understand the 'common sense' reasoning for thinking that this could be harmful, both my experience and my (vague) understanding of linguistics suggest otherwise. I suspect that the kids can tell the difference between grammatically bad and grammatically good English. In fact, they don't have the same grammatical problems my wife does (nor indeed do they have the same pronunciation problems). This, I believe - but DON'T KNOW- may be due to the fact they are old enough to know mum is not a native speaker; they understand that mum is Thai and dad is 'English', and they understand that "mum doesn't speak like daddy or the cartoons"; likewise, with me, they understand that I'm not Thai, and I don't speak like mum and everyone else they come into contact with. I SUSPECT they 'filter out' the bad/wrong parts, and only model the parts they have confirmed by other sources, kind of instinctively. However, this is supposition, based on, to be frank, my cod understanding of this area of linguistics. Hence, I am wondering what the 'experts' and others who are the product of mixed parents can tell me.

Edited August 21, 2009 by SoftWater

[Johpa]

We have raised two bilingual kids who have spent most of their lives here in the US. My son is 21 now and speaks excellent, nearly flawless Thai. My daughter is 18 and speaks less capably in Thai but has very good comprehension. Young children have no problems learning two languages as they grow up. Most commonly there is a "mother" tongue spoken in the house and a "native" tongue spoken in the schools. In a case where a language is presented by only one parent it is common for a child to only have comprehension skills with the production skills not as developed. That is they understand but will respond in the dominant language. And that is fine as normally, when exposed to an environment where that second language is dominant, production will follow quickly. In other words, if you are living in Thailand and only the father is speaking English, the child may understand the English and respond in Thai, but if that child is taken for a visit to the father's family overseas the child will usually start talking in English after a few days.

Children have no problems learning multiple languages. In Thailand we live near minority villages where just about everyone grows up multi-lingual learning their "mother tongue", the rural Kham Muang (Northern Thai) spoken in the street, as well as Central Thai spoken in the schools and in the media. And if there is another minority group nearby with a large population, then most kids also learn a smattering of that language as well.

Bottom line, languages are the gifts of the gods and there is no reason not to bestow your native language to your child by speaking to your kids in that language. It will in no way impede their learning of their "native" language. Just don't get frustrated if they respond in the dominant language. As long as there is comprehension you have succeeded!

[beano2274]

My kids are German, I spoke in English to them and my wife and her family spoke German. I also bought loads of Films for them to watch, all Disney movies in English.

Before I left them my daughter and son could speak both languages at an exceptionally good level, but now my daughter has since learned Dutch as well, her English has slowly disappeared as there is no-one around to practice with.

Actually, once we returned to the UK to live from Germany, and my son had to stay in Hospital for many months, my wife was unable to visit him, because he was far away, he was only 6 years old. After his prolonged stay in Hospital he came home and could hardly speak German to his mum, as everyone had spoken English to him in the hospital, he had to learn German all over again.

Start early is the best thing for them. With my new wife we plan to speak our mother tongues so that the baby will be bilingual.

.

Edited August 21, 2009 by beano2274

[withnail]

Softwater, you're right that an English speaking father's bad Thai shouldn't harm the kid too much as in a Thai environment they will hear enough good Thai to realise what they should be saying. kokesaat is kind of right though (and personally it really pisses me off when I see people doing it) because every time you speak Thai in front of the kid you are depriving it of an opportunity to listen to some English.

Technically a mother's broken English is more damaging because it could be 50% of the English input the kid gets. I think that TV and reading to the kid as much as possible is the way to go. Of course if you can find it English speaking friends or surround it with non Thai relatives than even better, but TV/literature will help providing that they do have at least one person who can talk back in English.

By the way a book that I highly recommend on the subject is How Languages are Learned by Patsy M. Lightbown and Nina Spada.

Edited August 22, 2009 by withnail

[Rikker]

I'm new to this problem, but as my daughter is verbal now it's something I'm thinking a lot about, too.

What I know about child language acquisition (admittedly not much) indicates that the basic ingredient a child needs is consistent input. The idea that we actively "teach" children a language isn't really true -- children naturally learn languages that they have sufficient exposure to. The teaching we do is really just modeling.

There are those who insist, for example, that baby talk is harmful. (The "baby wanna bawbaw?" sort of thing.) But as I understand it the science does not back this up. Children aren't listening only when spoken to; they absorb everything said near them. So even if you speak baby talk, the child naturally distinguishes this from the "real" language that he hears you speak whenever you're on the phone, or when somebody else in in the room, or when the TV or radio is on.

My daughter is 20 months old, and clearly understands English. But just as Johpa suggests, she tends to respond more in Thai, because she has more input in Thai, and it is the dominant language. Her mother is Thai and speaks a mixture of Thai and English around her, but her grandparents -- who she sees nearly daily -- speak exclusively Thai. I speak a lot of English, but just like SoftWater, find that it's hard not to slip into Thai at home, because that's what I speak with my wife more often than not. We've started letting her watch an episode or two a day of English-language kids programming, at the moment usually Barney or Sesame Street.

This is only more anecdotes, but since I have no special knowledge on the topic yet, that's my two cents. I need to read up more on the academic literature, so I appreciate the book recommendation, withnail.

[Harcourt]

I think it's extremely important to raise the children bilingually.

I base this on personal experience and also on studies that I've read. I am quite passionate about it because the science I've read has come from several sources, is reputable, and is concurrant. My own experiences are pretty much conclusive too.

The science side of it: 1. A child's brain is hardwired to absorb language. Communication is an important survival tool for a social animal. As ther child matures, the brain concentrates on other things, so it's best to start right from day one. The child absorbs language like a sponge.

2. Learning two languages "opens pathways in the brain" (quote), and the bilingual child will likely have a higher IQ in later life. In a very simmilar manner to learning chess at a young age.....both left and right hemispheres are employed and developed.

The practical side of it: 1. My own observations of multi-racial children being raised bilingually has left me in no doubt that it is beneficial. The benefits include the very basic fact that the child knows more than his/her peers at school, can fit in socially with two diverse groups, and these things will give advantage throughout the child's adult life.

2. I have known many bi-racial families, not just Thai-Farang. (My GF's friends are a Jap-Thai couple; THEIR child, at age 6 is tri-lingual living here in Auckland. She slips from speaking to her dad in Japanese, to me in English, to her mum in Thai with ease) There has never been one instance in my experience where a child learning both parent's languages simmultaneously has caused either language to suffer. The children swap between the languages with ease.

I have so many cousins from Fiji whose children speak Fijian and English plus the other parent's language, be it Samoan, Niuean, Japanes, Korean, Hindi....

In another thread in this language forum I mentioned a study I saw on a doco on television....THAT study also left me in no doubt that it is best to teach a child language at the earliest possible. (The study involved children learning sounds unique to a language).

I even urge single race couples to put their child in a language class, just for the benefit of brain development.

As I said, I'm passionate about this

[SoftWater]

I certainly value your input Harcourt, but I think you may have misread the OP.

The question is not whether it is beneficial to teach kids more than one language (that's taken as read), but how best to achieve it in terms of parenting. Should each parent stick to their own mother tongue in conversing with the children, or is it OK to switch?

The common-sense view has already been outlined above - where we're at now is wondering whether there is

i. any scientific evidence or research in linguistics that can back it up or disprove it, or

ii. whether people who are the product of mixed parentage can offer personal insight from their own upbringing (what their parents did, and whether they think that was the right way to go or not.)

Thanks

Sw

Edited August 22, 2009 by SoftWater

[SoftWater]

Thanks Johpa, Withnail and Rikker. Agree with all the points you have made, though I still think the idea that 'the mother's broken English is damaging' needs scientific support (I vaguely remember years ago, while studying philosophy of language, reading something about 2nd generation creole kids who did not adopt the linguistic errors of their parents). Rikker's point about baby talk (anecdotally) confirms my suspicion that some non-native input won't be harmful.

Rikker, good luck with finding any decent research. I asked about this a lot when my kids were first born, among people who had various PG degrees in child language acquisition, and nobody could come up with much in the way of references or knowledge that came to anything more substantial than what we have amassed together already on this thread.

I had kind of given up on finding any hard evidence on the subject, but as I said in the OP, the thread with Stu Jay Raj made me think - well, if the academics haven't explored such an obviously huge interest area, maybe we can get some insight from those who were brought up bi/multi lingually.

Withnail, thanks for the reference also; I'll certainly be checking that out.

Sw

Edited August 22, 2009 by SoftWater

[Johpa]

My children survived both my less than perfect Thai as well as my wife's less than perfect English. My son speaks Thai with nary an accent, putting my Thai vocalizations to shame. He is often quick to laugh at some of my pronunciations.

I don't believe this is a significant issue. Aim for comprehension, don't get worried or frustrated over lack of production, and then, if possible, make the investment into taking the children back to the country of the second language for some immersion once every few years while they are still young. The return on that investment will be gratifying. If you are based in Thailand and can't make it back to your home country then take a trip to somewhere like Samui where English is dominant or take them for weekend stays at tourist guesthouses with a swim pool as a hook.