Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand

[BTITmaker]

^because you know as I do, they probably wouldn't allow it to be filmed.

BTW do you know that couple that was trying to film inside the gogo? (budding film makers too so it seems)

Hi britmaveric - and thanks for your kind comment about the series which I forgot to acknowledge earlier.

No, I don't know them nor what they were up to. Again I wasn't filming that night. But there was an article about that incident - it's online somewhere ... in a Pattaya newspaper I think. Just watched Ep. 7 aka 'Howard Miller's BTIT'. Who needs the X Factor when you've got talent spotters like me, hey? If anyone's got any ideas for new vehicles for Howard (rather than the battery-operated one he gets about in on Walking Street) please let me know.

And any ideas for a new series I can make in Thailand would also be welcome, along the lines of:

Faking It (Vera Productions for Virgin Media/Bravo)

Bar Girl Swap

Strictly Come Jet Ski

Howard Miller's Irresistible Thailand (eight one hours soon-to-be-made about the best country in the world by way of apology by Virgin Media - and I'm not joking)

[britmaveric]

How about have Howard doing whacky stuff in Thailand? "Howard Miller - An Every man's Guide to Thailand"

Or better Yet Howard Miller Vs Pattaya SWAT errr I mean <deleted>. (actually that sounds a bit risque, don't want to put HM in a bad situation)

[enyaw]

I recorded two hours worth of programmes from UK TV tonight. The first hour was on BBC1 - it was 'Life' presented by David Attenborough explaining the lengths that animals go to to mate and preserve their species. The second hour was 'BTITT' on Bravo - explaining the depths to which some humans sink in order to get a shag. 'Life' was uplifting - 'BtiTT' was disgusting.

[GungaDin]

BTITmaker aka Gavin H?

and you're quite rightly pissed off at the editing, narration & audio?

The narration & script is woeful.

Welcome to Thai Visa, whoever you are.

Thank you. Yes, I think it's fair to say I am. I agree with all your observations.

<Snip>

there I was possibly threatened with arrest and jail and where was Richard Branson when I needed him?

At the dentist....

Hi Gavin,

As the big Scot has said, you have a good reputation as a doc maker,

why not edit your own footage & sell the package,

is it too expensive to set-up & do?

If there was a "next time" what would you do differently?

Thanks for responding in a positive manner.

Having just been burgled while in Laos, I have a cunning plan for a program....

Cheers.

Bump....

[phuketrex]

Episode 6>>>

[StateSix]

The thing is this.................................

all you people bitching about the work Howard and his team do, he actually invites you to join him on Walking Street.

Would you be prepared to give up your free time to help other people ?

If you had a problem on walking street, would you rather see a friendly face that can help you out, or would you rather battle it out with the local Thais ?

Believe me chaps, the local Police don't want anything to do with Farang problems on walking street, it's too much paperwork, if you get really drunk and land up at the tourist police van in walking street, those lads will look after you to the best of their ability.

Or

You can take your chances on your own, with no help at all.

I know what I would rather do.

To be honest if I got into trouble with some local Thais I would rather have the Thai police turn up to deal with it. A local Thai is more likely to respond to a Thai police officer than a farang who doesn't speak his language, isn't a police officer and has no powers. The only real benefit to having a TPV at the scene would be to translate and we have seen how these skills are lacking. To turn it around, if you ran a business in your home country and there was trouble with a customer would you want the local police to turn up, or some local tourist volunteer. I would certainly not take seriously someone who wasn't a police officer and who didn't even speak English and was tring to sort it out. How would you react if you caught some guy urinating on your car, and some guy wandered up and started getting involved and saying stuff like "Driver, where?" in badly broken English. Are you a copper? No? Well do one then, would be my response.

That said, the TPV can have a positive role in many other situations, such as explaining what is happening, what the legal situation is and liaising with the police to get you information. They can also be useful as a friendly face at the entrance to Walking Street and can act as guides, offering directions to hotels, helping to take initial details for crime reports etc, or for tourists to report things that they may not want to report to the RTP. This is the sort of stuff that Simon43 seems to do in Bangkok, or the Samui TPV do, and no-one seems to be criticizing them or their team.

Constructive criticism should be welcomed and taken on board and I don't believe it is bitching to say that slapping people on the back of the head, trying to put arm locks on people while shouting do not resist me, telling someone you are police when you are not, threatening to lock people up or getting involved in situations which are clearly sworn police officers duties is wrong. Calling them nazis because of their uniform is not constructive crticism and such posters deserve to be ignored.

I looked into getting involved with the Bangkok team, but decided that I could not realistically do enough hours due to work and personal commitments. Does that mean I do not have the right to comment?

As for going to Walking Street to speak to Howard, I don't think I could get that past the missus. 'Hi honey, I am going to Pattaya this weekend. Only so I can chat to Howard about the TPV.'

BTW congrats on the wedding Howard.

[Matan]

The thing is this.................................

all you people bitching about the work Howard and his team do, he actually invites you to join him on Walking Street.

Would you be prepared to give up your free time to help other people ?

If you had a problem on walking street, would you rather see a friendly face that can help you out, or would you rather battle it out with the local Thais ?

Believe me chaps, the local Police don't want anything to do with Farang problems on walking street, it's too much paperwork, if you get really drunk and land up at the tourist police van in walking street, those lads will look after you to the best of their ability.

Or

You can take your chances on your own, with no help at all.

I know what I would rather do.

To be honest if I got into trouble with some local Thais I would rather have the Thai police turn up to deal with it. A local Thai is more likely to respond to a Thai police officer than a farang who doesn't speak his language, isn't a police officer and has no powers. The only real benefit to having a TPV at the scene would be to translate and we have seen how these skills are lacking. To turn it around, if you ran a business in your home country and there was trouble with a customer would you want the local police to turn up, or some local tourist volunteer. I would certainly not take seriously someone who wasn't a police officer and who didn't even speak English and was tring to sort it out. How would you react if you caught some guy urinating on your car, and some guy wandered up and started getting involved and saying stuff like "Driver, where?" in badly broken English. Are you a copper? No? Well do one then, would be my response.

That's a good point actually. Just imagine if you were living in the UK, some Arab tourist was causing problems for your business, and an Arab volunteer policeman who could barely communicate in English came to sort things out. That would be so infuriating! Perhaps it's indicative of our western superiority complex that we think it doesn't work the other way round in Thailand and we are welcomed as colonial masters.

I think if the TPV could actually speak Thai then they could actually liaise with the police and Thai public. At the moment it just looks like they're saying "Weeeeeelll ya have to pay a fine. Money tee nai?"

(Obviously that's too simplistic, but I would have thought language would be a fundamental requirement for this job.)

Edited October 13, 2009 by Matan

[Eff1n2ret]

Episode 6 - another half-baked exercise in sensationalising trivia.

And is it really true that, as the introduction always says, last year 288 British tourists were killed? - in Thailand or worldwide? If worldwide, why quote that figure and not one for Thailand?

[BTITmaker]

Eff1n2ret - It is not true. 288 people may have DIED in Thailand last year but it's incorrect to say they were killed. It goes beyond misleading in my opinion. I have told them to stop saying it just as they were intent on calling Howard and the TPVs proper police, but they won't listen. It's 288 people DIED. Vera/Virgin Media/Bravo don't tend to let little things like facts spoil their sensationalist fest. Last night they said Thailand was becoming "Crime Central". If silence construes consent then I assume TAT's alright with that. But as the person who came up with the idea and gathered the content in the field I most certainly am not.

[2long]

HM knows better than excusing robbery - haven't seen the episode, but I have to think this is another edit job.

Might be an idea to watch it first (before commenting in his support) then, britmaveric, because Howard has blatantly said a few things right in front of camera that he hasn't supported (because he can't). The thing about the percentage of drivers not having licences springs to mind.

On another point, I think the Indians being overcharged for a 'show' last week was a perfect opportunity to warn about this scam that DOES happen in many 'pop upstairs' bars.

[sjaak327]

Eff1n2ret - It is not true. 288 people may have DIED in Thailand last year but it's incorrect to say they were killed. It goes beyond misleading in my opinion. I have told them to stop saying it just as they were intent on calling Howard and the TPVs proper police, but they won't listen. It's 288 people DIED. Vera/Virgin Media/Bravo don't tend to let little things like facts spoil their sensationalist fest. Last night they said Thailand was becoming "Crime Central". If silence construes consent then I assume TAT's alright with that. But as the person who came up with the idea and gathered the content in the field I most certainly am not.

It seems to me that you don't have any saying in how they edit your material ?

I wonder if that makes you regret the whole thing.

[2long]

Just seen th NEW uncut JJ video and it shows it (the show is all a load of &lt;deleted&gt;. Sadly, I WILL watch all of every episode because I'm hooked, and I live in LOS.

Can't remember the name of the member just banned for flaming, but it appears he wasn't/isn't all that wrong.

[britmaveric]

On another point, I think the Indians being overcharged for a 'show' last week was a perfect opportunity to warn about this scam that DOES happen in many 'pop upstairs' bars.

Nah the indians happily paid 300bht to watch a show. They only whinged when they didnt like the show they were watching. Now I'm sorry - you paid for admission you get stuck with it where I come from. The GoGo should have told them to get stuffed, however they were quite nice to them by giving them 150bht back each, prob because the camera was rolling.

[2long]

I totally disagree. But neither you BritMaveric nor I were there with them, so we'll never know. It's a common scam. 100B or so for a drink, but the first one costs 300B and you get to see a show that doesn't exist.

Seen Ep 6 yet?

[cdnvic]

The backpackers being questioned brought back many memories of my days in that business. I always found it a bit suss how they only get robbed just before leaving for home.

[britmaveric]

I totally disagree. But neither you BritMaveric nor I were there with them, so we'll never know. It's a common scam. 100B or so for a drink, but the first one costs 300B and you get to see a show that doesn't exist.

Seen Ep 6 yet?

Well Indians admitted there was a show in the end. Yes - I am quite aware of scams with some of these gogo places err clip joints. This is why I always ask how much a drink is and pay bin right away. (only 1 drink and done)

I'm not sure if it was the case here - lot of these places charge indians/middle eastern covers to come in and I'm assuming this is prob the case with this establishment.

No haven't had time to watch episode 6 yet. (get to it later)

[Eff1n2ret]

Eff1n2ret - It is not true. 288 people may have DIED in Thailand last year but it's incorrect to say they were killed. It goes beyond misleading in my opinion. I have told them to stop saying it just as they were intent on calling Howard and the TPVs proper police, but they won't listen. It's 288 people DIED. Vera/Virgin Media/Bravo don't tend to let little things like facts spoil their sensationalist fest. Last night they said Thailand was becoming "Crime Central". If silence construes consent then I assume TAT's alright with that. But as the person who came up with the idea and gathered the content in the field I most certainly am not.

OK, thanks for that clarification. And as well as the distinction between those who were killed and those who died, the figure must include a large proportion, probably the vast majority, who were not tourists but residents, and statistically no different to the proportion of expats who peg out in, say, Spain or Canada.

It's a little far-fetched to assume that TAT do not dispute the editorial slant of this programme just because they choose not to dignify it with a response, and the broadcasters you quote are probably not committed to any editorial balance, or "right of reply", such as the BBC. Thus the only way TAT can respond is to draw attention to it via other media, which rather defeats the object.

[britmaveric]

^yes deaths could have been natural causes. (lot of elderly retiree(s) do live in thailand)

[Donnyboy]

they must be scratching the bottom of the "what do we find to film now" barrel to come up with 2 quarreling women & a couple of backpackers reporting stolen goods. The plots thinning out as we get further to the end of the series.

[Donnyboy]

I totally disagree. But neither you BritMaveric nor I were there with them, so we'll never know. It's a common scam. 100B or so for a drink, but the first one costs 300B and you get to see a show that doesn't exist.

Seen Ep 6 yet?

Well Indians admitted there was a show in the end. Yes - I am quite aware of scams with some of these gogo places err clip joints. This is why I always ask how much a drink is and pay bin right away. (only 1 drink and done)

I'm not sure if it was the case here - lot of these places charge indians/middle eastern covers to come in and I'm assuming this is prob the case with this establishment.

No haven't had time to watch episode 6 yet. (get to it later)

we got scammed for "see sexy show" when we came on holidays. Paid our beers and left after one round. Stupid really, if the bar owners would have had a desent show, we would have stayed longer and had a few more.

[britmaveric]

^exactly clip joints don't really think - end up losing potential returns for trying to stick it to you now. However sexy shows are normally rubbish anyways - seen it once what is the point of seeing it again? (very boring)

[cdnvic]

sexy shows are normally rubbish anyways - seen it once what is the point of seeing it again? (very boring)

Makes about as much sense as going to a restaurant to watch food.

[britmaveric]

Anyone give a run down on episode 6 and thoughts?

[richard_smith237]

Anyone give a run down on episode 6 and thoughts?

More of the same.... HM is portrayed well, more ladyboys re-visiting an earlier topic... Everyone back home will be calling me a shirt lifter when I visit next!

Is there a 'Big trouble in Thailand - Episode 6 (Part 5) ?? It seems to me that the episodes end rather abruptly on You Tube.

[hm1973]

Anyone give a run down on episode 6 and thoughts?

More of the same.... HM is portrayed well, more ladyboys re-visiting an earlier topic... Everyone back home will be calling me a shirt lifter when I visit next!

Is there a 'Big trouble in Thailand - Episode 6 (Part 5) ?? It seems to me that the episodes end rather abruptly on You Tube.

It was cut just as the end credits came in. Episode 6 had a lot of stuff which was originally filmed for the Pilot back in April 2008. In a way I suppose they are lucky my appearance hasn't changed (apart from putting on a few more kilos!!!!).

I am sure Gavin feels the same and it would be good to hear his comments on this as well but I think that the program now has no structure and is just a mix of cases interlaced with side-stories to break-up the Police cases. I think the editing is very amateurish and I think it would have been better to have commission 8 thirty minute shows rather than the 1 hour shows. The prison stories are pretty much the same and could have been dealt with much better by the editing suite I feel.

Do I regret my involvement in the show.....no, but I am dissapointed in the way it has turned out, especially with the fact that Gavin Hill, who I think did an excellent job in shooting the footage, was frozen out by Vera Productions.

[BTITmaker]

Eff1n2ret - It is not true. 288 people may have DIED in Thailand last year but it's incorrect to say they were killed. It goes beyond misleading in my opinion. I have told them to stop saying it just as they were intent on calling Howard and the TPVs proper police, but they won't listen. It's 288 people DIED. Vera/Virgin Media/Bravo don't tend to let little things like facts spoil their sensationalist fest. Last night they said Thailand was becoming "Crime Central". If silence construes consent then I assume TAT's alright with that. But as the person who came up with the idea and gathered the content in the field I most certainly am not.

It seems to me that you don't have any saying in how they edit your material ?

I wonder if that makes you regret the whole thing.

sjaak327 - No, not the whole thing - surprisingly. Do I regret being threatened with arrest and imprisonment by the Thai authorities for Vera Productions and Virgin Media/Bravo? Too right I do. Do I regret the litany of factual inaccuracies in the series? Yep. It's unnecessary and everyone involved deserves better - or at least not to be materially misled which OFCOM says broadcasters/programme makers mustn't do, even with series like BTI(T)T. Take a look at the following clip - this is another stunt Vera Productions tried to pull (and the wool over viewers' eyes if I'd let them get away with it). The girl wasn't raped - she'd banged her head in a fall. The voice is the "guidetrack" laid by the Edit Producer in London. The ACTUAL rape case TPV Louise Rawlings is talking about IS genuine, but it had nothing WHATSOVER to do with the girl who fell off her balcony at the Full Moon Party. There was no complaint of rape that we were aware of at the Full Moon Party that night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFAEJUyKolg

[kjhbigv]

Howard...I liked it how you 'hop footed it to the scene'

[caf]

The backpackers being questioned brought back many memories of my days in that business. I always found it a bit suss how they only get robbed just before leaving for home.

Not necessarily guilty as charged though, were they.

After over three hours they got the report from then police. The telling point in the veracity of their claim was thast the police found no camera in their luggage. That's not to say there is no fraud by others but it did seem the tpv had already convicted them!!

[caf]

Eff1n2ret - It is not true. 288 people may have DIED in Thailand last year but it's incorrect to say they were killed. It goes beyond misleading in my opinion. I have told them to stop saying it just as they were intent on calling Howard and the TPVs proper police, but they won't listen. It's 288 people DIED. Vera/Virgin Media/Bravo don't tend to let little things like facts spoil their sensationalist fest. Last night they said Thailand was becoming "Crime Central". If silence construes consent then I assume TAT's alright with that. But as the person who came up with the idea and gathered the content in the field I most certainly am not.

OK, thanks for that clarification. And as well as the distinction between those who were killed and those who died, the figure must include a large proportion, probably the vast majority, who were not tourists but residents, and statistically no different to the proportion of expats who peg out in, say, Spain or Canada.

It's a little far-fetched to assume that TAT do not dispute the editorial slant of this programme just because they choose not to dignify it with a response, and the broadcasters you quote are probably not committed to any editorial balance, or "right of reply", such as the BBC. Thus the only way TAT can respond is to draw attention to it via other media, which rather defeats the object.

Actually the murder rate is higher than in Spain or canada ( and that ignores "suicides")

[cdnvic]

The backpackers being questioned brought back many memories of my days in that business. I always found it a bit suss how they only get robbed just before leaving for home.

Not necessarily guilty as charged though, were they.

After over three hours they got the report from then police. The telling point in the veracity of their claim was thast the police found no camera in their luggage. That's not to say there is no fraud by others but it did seem the tpv had already convicted them!!

The TPV member interviewed was speaking in more general terms, not about the two kids featured.