Thaksin Supporter " Da Torpedo " Convicted Of Lese Majeste

[Arkady]

Please tread carefully when posting on subjects that involve the Monarchy. Making posts which comment politically in any way on The Royal Family is forbidden by both the forum rules and the laws of Thailand. You will be held accountable for whatever content you link to, and this is one subject where we don't give the benefit of the doubt.

For a more robust discussion you can see websites that are hosted overseas by looking on google.

[MUYTHAI]

It is interesting to note that around the world, libel and slander do carry prison sentences in multiple places and essentially based on my understanding of what was said in her case, there might be scope to consider those aspects; one might further consider whether it is appropriate to be saying and whipping up emotions in a mob situation. From McLibel to the various cases involving alleged claims and subsequent retractions in the english media for celebrities, business people and state figures, a person cannot just wander around the world spouting mistruths and there is law to protect them for this.

thank you for this. So it seems that her speech, even if said in other countries about say the Queen(in britain) or Obama (in Usa)would also get her a long jail sentence (again I have no idea what she said).

18 years is far too lenient.

As long as she did not make a threat to physically harm President Obama or others "near him" nothing would have ever happened to her. A non-issue.

We have so-called "freedom of speech" in the USA, but it is slowly being eroded and lessened by politically correct fascists. There are jewish groups in the US that are trying to get laws passed that would make it illegal to say anything "negative" about jews/ hebrews. They want it to be a hate crime. So-called hate crimes laws are being used to take away freedom of speech and push the US toward fascism.

[CaptainNemo]

AS we all know the Lese Majeste law is there to protect .

In the UK the royal family from time to time have had to take action against what has been said . If we had this law , other than the more serious law of Treason, then the UK Royal family wouldnt have to take such actions against those who libel them, the law would protect them as the law does in Thailand. I am all for it , and against those who slander .

Think what a wonderful world it would be if we were all protected by "Lese Majeste"...

The English libel law system is an appalling one, where your wealth determines your ability to bring a case to protect your reputation (no legal aid); in addition, cases can be brought from outside England by people who've never been to England in their lives, against others outside England, who've never been to England in their lives.

It would also probably enable non-British people living in exile in Britain to use the English law against a non-Thai living in Thailand

This facilitates all sorts of negative outcomes, of which censorship of a person's free expression is but one. It seems to me, that however negatively one views "Lese Majeste" laws in any country; some of us ought to get our own houses in order... i.e.: get a First Amendment in the UK.

As a northerner, I would expect the right in my own country to deploy the Derek & Clive approach to political discourse without legalistic persecution.

[WhiteSnake]

Closed political trials like in Burma! If Thailand wouldn't have a so open economy this would become quickly in another Burma like state, it has all the ingredients.

I was hoping that some kind of evolution would be possible in Thailand. But with this kind of trials and jail sentences it seems that only a revolution can change this, and will be a bloody one.

I never liked Thaksin, but I'm start sympathizing with him. His methods start becoming justified. They are start doing the unthinkable is transforming Thaksin in some sort of freedom activist wiping out everything else.

It seems that the alternative to Thaksin is this terrible governance and a slow sliding into the abyss.

[alaninkarachi]

Posts against the royal family, posts about moderation, and posts that quote such will continue disappearing. Forum rules.

Dear Moderator,

Please please just close out these endless negative forums. Might I suggest you advise all these expats to please just enjoy life and count their blessing or simply just go, that's it, go, go home. Thank you.

[kr8R]

Well done Thai Visa. This is the first time I have seen a thread regarding this kind of thing that hasn't been locked. It's a step forward allowing people to even discuss this topic. There will be many more martyrs before Thai people are allowed the freedom of speech they deserve.

[CaptainNemo]

I have no idea what she said, and no way of finding out. But the important thing is that she must have said something bad. So I think 18 years is too lenient and they need much harsher penalties.

How can you think that when, by your own admission, you don't even know what it is she said?

well otherwise one is questioning aspects of the Thai judical system and its eminent judges. They heard the evidence and they know it was wrong, why would anyone ever doubt them.

Now we are entering the realm of fantasy.

I suspect he was being ironic.

[cdnvic]

A number of posts have been removed but it speaks to the maturity of our membership that the thread can continue with mostly reasonable discussion.

[Plus]

Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Washington would not get a prison sentence. Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Iraq might well get arrested and sentenced to jail. Anyone who tried throwing a shoe at a (hypothetical) Thai head of state would not live long enough to be arrested by the police.....

I have no idea what would happen to a person trying to throw anything at the US president. He'll probably live, depends on circumstances and Secret Service reaction. When it all clears out, throwing shoes might not consitute violence, and certainly not label or defamation.

In Thailand the red mobs have tried to kill Abhisit, twice, no one is in even jail so far.

[h90]

I have no idea what she said, and no way of finding out. But the important thing is that she must have said something bad. So I think 18 years is too lenient and they need much harsher penalties.

She based her speech on the fate of Nepalese royal family and went from there. Or maybe it was the other way around.

Sondhi was charged with LM simply for relaying what she said, these things are not repeated in public in Thailand.

Not only the Nepalese, she spoke about France with some pretty ugly details. Sondhi hold the VCD in his hand, I think that was enough (don't know if he told about what she spoke).

Just off topic:

I just for my own person, I would not like if someone speaks about hacking off my head in front of a cheering crowed......

[h90]

Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Washington would not get a prison sentence. Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Iraq might well get arrested and sentenced to jail. Anyone who tried throwing a shoe at a (hypothetical) Thai head of state would not live long enough to be arrested by the police.....

I have no idea what would happen to a person trying to throw anything at the US president. He'll probably live, depends on circumstances and Secret Service reaction. When it all clears out, throwing shoes might not consitute violence, and certainly not label or defamation.

In Thailand the red mobs have tried to kill Abhisit, twice, no one is in even jail so far.

Well the guy in Iraq got tortured and in jail!

The guy who threw a show at the Chinese President didn't got any problems.

[Samuian]

For some reason I can't quote - function gone - empty reply window opens - so thats why this way:

tartempion

post Today, 2009-08-28 14:26:13

Post #21

Ugly Fat Farang

*****

Group: Advanced Members

Posts: 1,001

Joined: 2006-03-03

From: Hot Issaan village

Member No.: 27,537

QUOTE (BigBikeBKK @ 2009-08-28 14:19:14) *

I'd like to see all of the Red Shirt terrorists locked up so that this country can finally move forward. They're not the least bit interested in Democracy- only anarchy and mayhem. <deleted> 'EM!

Oh, there we go again ohmy.gif

And those who held the airport hostage for one week should get a medal for heroic conduct in defending the democracy and the monarchy rolleyes.gif

I can't see how one can hold an airport "hostage"... however there are people targeted for occupying it.

and I like clear statements like BigBikeBKK has made - sows there are people who know what they want and

have a clear uncomplicated opinion!

Well, her speech must have been nasty enough to get such a sentence - her nick "da torpedo" tells a story...

[andyc2006]

I have no idea what she said, and no way of finding out. But the important thing is that she must have said something bad. So I think 18 years is too lenient and they need much harsher penalties.

Your belief that "she must have said something bad" is based on an unhealthy trust of government.

Never trust government officials, anywhere. Especially when they're prosecuting political suspects and refusing to display their evidence to the public.

thank you for this. So it seems that her speech, even if said in other countries about say the Queen(in britain) or Obama (in Usa)would also get her a long jail sentence (again I have no idea what she said).

18 years is far too lenient.

You're incorrect, but given your prior posts, I didn't expect you to know much about other countries.

In the USA, you can criticize the President to your heart's content. It happens daily, and publicly. Oddly, in 200+ years, no President has ever been harmed by criticism (a few were harmed by the truth, but that was for the best anyway).

It's illegal to make violent threats directed at the President. But in most cases, people who do that never spend more than a day in jail. 18 years would be reserved for somebody who actually attempted to harm the President.

well otherwise one is questioning aspects of the Thai judical system and its eminent judges. They heard the evidence and they know it was wrong, why would anyone ever doubt them.

I can think of 100s of answers to your question. Maybe you're just not being creative enough.

[asiawatcher]

som num naa

should have been 28 (or 38) years.

Intelligent comment - is this number your equivalent IQ?

[andyc2006]

We all know that LM crimes are used to silence political opponents ...

No, we don't know that. Da Torpedo is no political opponent, she is a lose nutjob.

I'm not claiming that Thailand is or is not a civilized, developed, advanced society that respects free speech.

I'm only claiming that in a civilized, developed, advanced society that respects free speech, even loose nutjobs are entitled to voice their opinions.

And of course, I have no opinion on whether "Da Torpedo" is a nutjob, though yours could land you in a Thai jail, unless you could prove both that 1) it's true, and 2) you had a good reason to voice that truth.

[bangon04]

Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Washington would not get a prison sentence. Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Iraq might well get arrested and sentenced to jail. Anyone who tried throwing a shoe at a (hypothetical) Thai head of state would not live long enough to be arrested by the police.....

I have no idea what would happen to a person trying to throw anything at the US president. He'll probably live, depends on circumstances and Secret Service reaction. When it all clears out, throwing shoes might not consitute violence, and certainly not label or defamation.

In Thailand the red mobs have tried to kill Abhisit, twice, no one is in even jail so far.

Throwing a shoe is a severe insult in Iraq, and probably even more severe an insult in Thailand.

Abhisit is not the Head of State in Thailand....

[MUYTHAI]

thank you for this. So it seems that her speech, even if said in other countries about say the Queen(in britain) or Obama (in Usa)would also get her a long jail sentence (again I have no idea what she said).

18 years is far too lenient.

Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Washington would not get a prison sentence. Anyone who threw their shoe at the US president in Iraq might well get arrested and sentenced to jail. Anyone who tried throwing a shoe at a (hypothetical) Thai head of state would not live long enough to be arrested by the police.....

Well said. Something to ponder. Also, it might be double trouble...because the bottom of the foot or shoe is "disgraceful" and "bad" in LOS. Very,very bad. The offender might be "killed" a second time. Double death sentence.

I never understood why, if the feet are considered very lowly and bad in LOS (sure they can be dirty...but lets be logical), are there so many Thais that give foot massages...including my Thai girlfriend who gives a great massage btw. Hmmmm??

[Plus]

I have no idea what she said, and no way of finding out. But the important thing is that she must have said something bad. So I think 18 years is too lenient and they need much harsher penalties.

She based her speech on the fate of Nepalese royal family and went from there. Or maybe it was the other way around.

Sondhi was charged with LM simply for relaying what she said, these things are not repeated in public in Thailand.

Not only the Nepalese, she spoke about France with some pretty ugly details. Sondhi hold the VCD in his hand, I think that was enough (don't know if he told about what she spoke).

Just off topic:

I just for my own person, I would not like if someone speaks about hacking off my head in front of a cheering crowed......

Thanks for filling out the details, it was the Nepalese example that somehow stuck in my memory. Maybe because French history is totally lost on Thai public but Nepal was all over the news just a few years ago.

Anyway, I think we should stop here, I don't want to speak in code for what she said. I caught it here, I think, before it was removed by mods.

It was bad.

[andyc2006]

Posts against the royal family, posts about moderation, and posts that quote such will continue disappearing. Forum rules.

Dear Moderator,

Please please just close out these endless negative forums. Might I suggest you advise all these expats to please just enjoy life and count their blessing or simply just go, that's it, go, go home. Thank you.

Don't worry alaninkarachi,

I've made my decision to both enjoy life and leave your country. I'm counting the days, as well as my blessings.

[bangon04]

I never understood why, if the feet are considered very lowly and bad in LOS (sure they can be dirty...but lets be logical), are there so many Thais that give foot massages...including my Thai girlfriend who gives a great massage btw. Hmmmm??

Actually very rare to see a male working as foot massage. How many times have you seen a male giving foot massage to a female in public? Occupation is reserved for the lowly female in Thailand...

[cdnvic]

Post in ALL CAPS deleted. Why do people waste their time like that?

[Plus]

We all know that LM crimes are used to silence political opponents ...

No, we don't know that. Da Torpedo is no political opponent, she is a lose nutjob.

I'm not claiming that Thailand is or is not a civilized, developed, advanced society that respects free speech.

I'm only claiming that in a civilized, developed, advanced society that respects free speech, even loose nutjobs are entitled to voice their opinions.

It wasn't giving an opinion. She wasn't in a contemplative mood, pondering her own thoughts.

I think one of the original articles sited the court as saying her speech was a considered a threat.

As some said here - even some of her audience were turned off by aggressive delivery.

[asean]

Finally beginning to understand the reason for lesse majeste. If the UK Royal Family had lesse majeste laws would they be the laughing stock that they are now? Would there be horsey charicatures of Charles and his wife all over the media? Would there be embarrassing photos of princess fergie in her bikini splashed across the papers? In fact would a swarm of papparazzi even be allowed to chase Princess Diana on their motorcycles? Over here they close sukhumvit road just for one royal family member. Yes they are human and just as fallible as the rest of us but best left those conversations private. I have always been a big critic of laissez majeste laws until today.

I finally get it. He is the people's King and the media and papparazzi should not be able to go to town on him and his family and make a mockery of the institution.

I only wish that QEII could have enjoyed the same dignity for her family. I am by no means a monarchist but i finally get it. As far as HRH business dealings and influence on politics then that is his business. He is the King.

[Sturbuc]

Hmm. It seems to me that it might be easy to get rid of some (political) oponents; just report "lese majeste" to the court.

[geovalin]

Please tread carefully when posting on subjects that involve the Monarchy. Making posts which comment politically in any way on The Royal Family is forbidden by both the forum rules and the laws of Thailand. You will be held accountable for whatever content you link to, and this is one subject where we don't give the benefit of the doubt.

In this case, I suggest you do not begin such a thread or your end it immediately.

I do not see how to comment without...

[barry]

considering the sensitive nature of the topic

perhaps the topic shouldn't even be in the forum

not much will come out of it

[cdnvic]

Please tread carefully when posting on subjects that involve the Monarchy. Making posts which comment politically in any way on The Royal Family is forbidden by both the forum rules and the laws of Thailand. You will be held accountable for whatever content you link to, and this is one subject where we don't give the benefit of the doubt.

In this case, I suggest you do not begin such a thread or your end it immediately.

I do not see how to comment without...

Many people do, it just takes good judgement. Sometimes that good judgement is expressed in remaining silent.

[animatic]

Definitively sending a BIG message to the Reds.

3 counts, 6 years each, could have been served consecutively

but clearly the decision on sequentially is the message.

There is little doubt she DID say it.

Interesting stuff on Sakdina system. Thanks for the link.

Na na nana

na na nana

hey hey

bye bye

Edited August 28, 2009 by cdnvic
The subject matter that mixed together in that paragraph was something I'm not prepared to risk allowing - cdnvic

[mc2]

Definitively sending a BIG message to the Reds.

3 counts, 6 years each, could have been served consecutively

but clearly the decision on sequentially is the message.

There is little doubt she DID say it.

short term rough ride perhaps.

she will be in a luxury cell when Thaksin gets back in power, and her lesbian tormentors (if there are as you suggest) will be ..... severely punished.

but i do agree with you about the political influence of the sentence.

Edited August 28, 2009 by cdnvic
edited quote

[ThNiner]

Definitively sending a BIG message to the Reds.

3 counts, 6 years each, could have been served consecutively

but clearly the decision on sequentially is the message.

There is little doubt she DID say it.

short term rough ride perhaps.

she will be in a luxury cell when Thaksin gets back in power, and her lesbian tormentors (if there are as you suggest) will be ..... severely punished.

but i do agree with you about the political influence of the sentence.