Poor Mouthing Restaurant Owners

[DonaldBattles]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

[Lannatyne]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

Well said, Sir.

Complaining isn't nice, but it's the way you do it that will get a positive outcome.

For us foreigners, when we're out with our Thai spouses, we're often discouraged by the 'other half' when wishing to complain. We all know, it's not the Thai way - they'll just generally put up with things and say nothing.

However, my own wife has had a number of years in the UK, and she is happy to complain now when necessary. hel_l, she even complained to you, Good Sir, the other morning about something not right with her breakfast!!.......

..................Now, where did I leave my jacket??

[onnut]

Too Right Don!

I understand them complaining if they had a problem with an owner and there is nowhere else to go but write up on the Internet, but those who moan about nothing should really go and see the owner. I welcome constructive comments about how i run my place and wish more people would just say these things to my face instead of me reading about them on this forum.

[harleyclarkey]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

Agreed...have the decency to complain to the owners face and at least give him/her a chance to sort it out...if genuine. Don't be a creep and mouth off behind their backs.

My bro (brother) has been a (successful) chef/patron here in Dublin for over 20 years and so I know all about it. Professional restraunters are always happy to get constructive feed back or to sort the genuine problems that do happen

Edited September 1, 2009 by harleyclarkey

[pagallim]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

Agreed...have the decency to complain to the owners face and at least give him/her a chance to sort it out...if genuine. Don't be a creep and mouth off behind their backs.

My bro (brother) has been a (successful) chef/patron here in Dublin for over 20 years and so I know all about it. Professional restraunters are always happy to get constructive feed back or to sort the genuine problems that do happen

Good post. I've never had the opportunity of going to Don's place (not through lack of willingness, solely through no time), however I've noted many more favourable posts than negative ones. I also agree/understand that trying to run an establishment that caters for farang/thai here in Phuket is walking a knife edge of criticism all the time. Ultimately, all of the owners are subject to the variances of their staff, and trying to maintain consistency is a major problem. Good luck Don, you're obviously committed to what you're doing.

[harleyclarkey]

Just for the record....I have never eaten at Don's so I am not a cosey for him. My remarks are general and apply to every restaurant.

[johnboy72]

and if the owner / staff don't speak English??

[katasyd]

and if the owner / staff don't speak English??

maa mai dek will soon get their attention.

[chickencurry]

Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

And regrettably some are not on duty and those ones you try your best to explain to the staff what the problem is (like pork with blood dripping from it on two occasions we've had at one eatery) Mai Deng but they don't understand the health problem even if they understand my limited Thai, then you vote with your feet. A pity that more Managers or Restaurant Owners don't take Don's attitude - especially in these recessionary days when you're chasing fewer customers.

[LivinginKata]

then you vote with your feet.

Yes, that's what I do. Why bother getting into a confrontation with the owner/manager.

[TaoNow]

Not sure exactly what you are referring to Don, but if you live in Chiang Rai now, who is minding the store in Sai Yuan?

(I've had good, friendly service there by the way.)

[stevenl]

Not sure exactly what you are referring to Don, but if you live in Chiang Rai now, who is minding the store in Sai Yuan?

(I've had good, friendly service there by the way.)

Last Sunday he was here.

I think Don may be referring to some comments made about his establishment in another post recently.

[barky]

then you vote with your feet.

Yes, that's what I do. Why bother getting into a confrontation with the owner/manager.

Absolutely agree. It's the owner/operator's job to manage and QA not mine . If the manager is too lazy, inept, or blind too the operations of his business then that's his problem. Don't blame the customer for bad management and control.

However, if I knoew the business was foreign owned I MIGHT say something to the boss, but if I knew it was Thai owned I wouldn't bother as Thais generally have no idea about real customer satisfaction and managment.

[petercallen]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

Actually, don i did not see you around when i finished my meal with out the apple pie and ice cream which never turned up or would have complained to you personally, not that i think it make any difference.

[thaiwanderer]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

Of course the owner should be approached first but the difficulty I find is that typically the farang 'owner' of a business is not the real registered owner, what then?

I abhor bad manners but equally dislike illegal company structures.

Edited September 2, 2009 by thaiwanderer

[vanalli]

If something happened and it's true then why can't we write about it here or anywhere else? It seems OK for all other things, so why not restaurants?

Edited September 2, 2009 by vanalli

[beekaykay]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

I agree that bad mouthing on the internet/forums is a big no no about anybody whatever their angle is, however as far as restaurant complaints in los goes its far easier said than done to find the owner when required.

[stevenl]

If something happened and it's true then why can't we write about it here or anywhere else? It seems OK for all other things, so why not restaurants?

Agree with you to a certain degree.

IMO, common decency would require to first try and solve any problem with the owner/manager/whoever at the restaurant. If that does not work: sure, the internet is one way to warn people away if it was that bad. The problem is of course that normally the complaint on the internet is very one sided, and even if an owner/manager gets to react, the harm is done already. And in my experience, the bad impression that such a 'review' gives, is quite often not justified.

[thaiwanderer]

Agree with you to a certain degree.

IMO, common decency would require to first try and solve any problem with the owner/manager/whoever at the restaurant. If that does not work: sure, the internet is one way to warn people away if it was that bad. The problem is of course that normally the complaint on the internet is very one sided, and even if an owner/manager gets to react, the harm is done already. And in my experience, the bad impression that such a 'review' gives, is quite often not justified.

Same with good reviews and advertising though?

[stevenl]

Same with good reviews and advertising though?

Yes, same problem with good reviews, very one sided and greatly depending on expectations of the reviewer.

Advertising is a different story, but will by nature be onesided. But everybody knows that about advertising, so that is ok.

[harrry]

In my view if I have received bad service or food it is up to me where and how to complain. It was the job of the provider of the serviced to perform to my expectations, that was what I paid for and if he/she fails to meet my expectations he has not been doing his.her job.

Of course I may be wrong and if my expectations were too high the person is free to post his/her version.

[johnboy72]

and if the owner / staff don't speak English??

maa mai dek will soon get their attention.

Then what?

[johnboy72]

and if the owner / staff don't speak English??

maa mai dek will soon get their attention.

Then what?

Also... I think saying " horse not infant" is going to leave the proprieter somewhat confused..

[KarenBravo]

Restaurants don't like bad reviews (which is what "poor mouthing" is).

So what's new?

[KevinBloodyWilson]

For those who enjoy poor mouthing restaurant owners why not have the courtsey to speak your complaints in person and give the owner a chance to fix your problem. Bad manners has those who complain on the forum but never bring the complaint direct to the restaurant owner. Many restaurant owners are generally on duty from 08:00 until 22:00 to welcome any constructive comments you might have or to correct a situation quickly.

There are also many restaurants that are allowed to be run by people who could care less about their customers and these should be dealt with.

Hmmm.

Well, it's a free world and if someone pisses off their customers, they are in no position whatever to insist that the customer deals with it in a way that suits the restaurant owner rather than doing so in public.

There are lots of reasons why customers might not want to complain directly, and diverting a complaint into a discussion of the way the complaint was made, is just that, a diversion.

If you get complaints in public, then the potential of losing lots of customers because you pissed off one is a pretty good incentive to solving the complaint. If you get it in private, there is little incentive not to just treat it in the time-honoured Thai style - ie ignore it.

Sheesh. Honestly, if someone pisses me off I feel under no obligation whatever to complain in a way which suits the pisser-off. If they don't like the way I complain, then they should not have pissed me off in the first place.

Sorry but there it is. Different strokes fer different folks.

[harleyclarkey]

then you vote with your feet.

Yes, that's what I do. Why bother getting into a confrontation with the owner/manager.

Absolutely....no way will I get into any kind of hassle and spoil my day/night.

But it is right to complain/point out the problem politely....This is where it often goes pear shaped. The diner is indignant and not in the right frame of mind to be reasonable.

If the owner is now negative/abusive (and boy they can be!) then a quick march out the door and then spread the word.

[vanalli]

What about movie reviews? Should we contact the director before we offer a negative opinion?

[WOOHOO]

When you use the words 'Bad mouthing' you make it sound like it's a personal, slanderous attack on your establishment, and if that's what it is, then that's obviously unacceptable, but if it's someone who's had a bad experience, and feels he has a right to vent his frustration and warn other people who maybe interested, which is the case most of the time, then they are doing nothing wrong. Restaurant owners who are more concerned with someone 'bad mouthing' them than they are in fixing the problems concerned, were probably deserving of the criticism in the first place. The phrase 'papering over the cracks' springs to mind. Anyone who thinks complaining to a restaurant manager in phuket is going to be anything other than a waste of time, and make you even more frustrated, is kidding themselves. The only option. as many people have said, is to vote with you feet, and then share your experience with others.

[ScubaBuddha]

Well, it's a free world and if someone pisses off their customers, they are in no position whatever to insist that the customer deals with it in a way that suits the restaurant owner rather than doing so in public.

There are lots of reasons why customers might not want to complain directly, and diverting a complaint into a discussion of the way the complaint was made, is just that, a diversion.

If you get complaints in public, then the potential of losing lots of customers because you pissed off one is a pretty good incentive to solving the complaint. If you get it in private, there is little incentive not to just treat it in the time-honoured Thai style - ie ignore it.

Sheesh. Honestly, if someone pisses me off I feel under no obligation whatever to complain in a way which suits the pisser-off. If they don't like the way I complain, then they should not have pissed me off in the first place.

Sorry but there it is. Different strokes fer different folks.

You are mistaken Kevin, it is not a free world, nor is it a free country. Thailand has some of the strictest libel and slander laws. Many people get caught up in this when they bring thier "this is a free world" attitudes from home to psuedo-democratic, developing, second and third world countries. Generallly slander and libel is defined as spreading false information which damages the reputation of another person, company, or orginization. In Thailand, however, there is lots of case law in which the courts have decided that even true information that is damaging can be punished for. Your risk to take.

As far as Don's situation, without knowing what the specific issues complained about it's hard to say what is appropriate. "Bad mouthing the owner" makes it sounds like it was a personal attack. If so, then Don's point is valid. If it's a simple negative review, well, then, that's how reviews are suppossed to work. This doesn't sound like what Don is talking about. I have seen scathing subjective reviews on ThaiVisa before that could not possibly be true, and were very clearly written by someone with a vendetta. Posters that hide behind anonymity and claim outrageous things about a restaurant I am familier with, who's owner and chef's know my name, and with which I discussed said post. This person also never made a proper complaint to anyone at the restaurant in question. Why? I don't understand it, unless, again, it was done out of spite, and probably completely fabricated.

What it really comes down to is are you a person with integrity or not? If you had multiple issues, made an attempt to correct the problem though appropriate channels, and were met with resistance or ignored, well then maybe it's time to whip out your thesaurus and flame away. But to bad mouth for a single event that was never addressed with those in charge at the resauraunt, well it's like unfairly taking money from the pocket of the owner.

I have been going to and recommending Don's in Phuket for 9 years, and Don always made an appearance himself to check on how our food and service was. It was a great highlight of the night when I would bring my clients or visiting friends and family there to eat. Is Don's perfect? No. No restaurant is. But for being in a developing county, and being handcuffed by having to use Thai staff, Don's is still one of the best places around to eat, even with 500% more competition out there compared to 9 years ago when he was operating out of the old location and Rawai was still all jungle.

Now my compaint: Don, can you get wet naps so the BBQ ribs eaters can clean off without having to go to the toilet? Or even a small dish with a wet napkin would suffice.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

You are mistaken Kevin, it is not a free world, nor is it a free country. Thailand has some of the strictest libel and slander laws. Many people get caught up in this when they bring thier "this is a free world" attitudes from home to psuedo-democratic, developing, second and third world countries. Generallly slander and libel is defined as spreading false information which damages the reputation of another person, company, or orginization. In Thailand, however, there is lots of case law in which the courts have decided that even true information that is damaging can be punished for. Your risk to take.

<snipola>

Nah, I'm not mistaken. It's a free world alright and I doubt we will see restaurant owners issuing libel suits against dissatisfied customers any time soon. Frankly I think it is all pretty silly but I note you have a personal relationship with the aggrieved owner so perhaps it's explained by that. I expect he'll buy you a drink when you're there next time.

Bottom line: IMHO, if you have a complaint, deal with it in whatever way suits you, not the person you are complaining about, unless you have some reason to retain a good relationship, in which case he probably should have looked after you better in the first place(?). Also IMHO, the guy who complained has nothing whatever to feel bad about, if there was a justified complaint then it's the owner who should feel bad, and he shouldn't be muttering about it on any bulletin board, he should have dealt with it directly and in a professional manner with the complainer. But then, as I said, its a free world.

Libel... dear oh dear oh dear. Anyone care for a little celery with their over-reaction?

Edited September 4, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson