Disgusted By Ignorance

[femi fan]

To me, it's simple; if Thailand wishes to join the rest of the world anytime this century, it must unchain itself from cultural constraints, lest it will suffer due to lack of internal change.

Culture is wonderful...if it is simply remembered & celebrated. It becomes a societal shackle if it is enforced (by law or by guilt). The tool used to enforce "culture" in Thailand is mostly guilt with a law or 2 (one of these laws is particularly nasty). This coincides with all of the other egotistical "rules" that preside here in the Land Of Guilt/Land Of Ego (take your pick).

Hopefully, we foreigners may have a slow but steady influence on young minds with regard to stimulating curiosity about "THE WORLD"...and everything in it. We may be the perfect catalyst to stimulate the use of that forbidden word, "WHY".

"Slow & steady wins the race" - The Tortoise.

Thailand is already part of the community of nations in this world. And why should thailand, any more than any other country, 'unchain' itself from cultural constraints? I find it easy to agree with the unchaining, and i find it easy to understand why this might not be such a good idea, but not just for thailand, for all peoples and nations. In what way is thailand not joined to the rest of the world? An awful lot of that world seem to delight in coming here for their holidays, and a sizeable number of people want to make it their home.

I would think that arguably all culture is a form of societal shackle, in all countries. And egotistical 'rules' are to be found everywhere. There are far more rules governing and controlling the people of britain for example than there are here in thailand. And guilt does very well indeed in britain, and is a well noted product of catholicism wherever that religion is to be found.

As for your hopes about how the foreigners may influence young minds here, this could easily be viewed as western arrogance unless you acknowledge at the same time how much the rest of the world could learn from thailand and thai people.

If 'why' is forbidden', then what does 'tammai' mean??

[femi fan]

Children need to learn to follow rules and instructions as well as to think analytically. Parents are quite capable of teaching children to be inquisitive and to explore. This, I believe, in Thailand is the crux of the problem. Parents don't question and questioning isn't encouraged in the culture or in the family. Schools cannot teach questioning under these circumstances.

Schools are schools and there purpose is to educate. They cannot replace parents and that is where children learn the most basic foundation of questioning and exploring the world around them.

Agreed about the role of parents. And i agree that a more questioning attitude will help kids discover answers by their own efforts rather than just being told what theings are and how things work. I think each generation of thai kids are evolving towards this though. And the proliferation of bilingual schools can only have a great influence on thailand's progress in education, and therefore society. I have seen firsthand some excellent work and projects conducted by such schools. It will surely have an effect on the 'normal' thai schools.

I even think many younger thais are hungry to embrace change, perhaps more than their western counterparts who are already in 'developed' nations.

I'm not sure about children needing to learn and follow rules. Whose rules are you talking about? What happens if a rule seems silly or imposed purely for control purposes? One positive benefit of critical thinking is being able to reject rules that have no basis in logic or reason. One of the problems in education is the inordinate number of rules that the poor kids have to follow, just so that all the adults can continue to deceive themselves they're in control. Rules create discipline problems. Some are obviously needed, and getting the kids to help set them is one feature of progress in the educational field.

A question that seems pertinent to this thread is: why are critical thinking skills deemed so important? And if thais don't have them (a big 'if' in my personal opinion), then in what way does this lead to impoverished lives on their part?

[femi fan]

No, don't get off their backs. I taught and administered in Virginia where the recertification requirements due every 5 years is heaven, with many options for earning points toward recertification. Many are relatively painless. Additionally, my system provided many opportunities for teachers to earn recertification points for free. The result, bitching and moaning. An occasional request for me (as an administrator) to falsify a record. Teachers sharing advice on which college course to take that required "no work", rather than one from which they could actually learn. I could go on...you get the point. One day the science department invited me (as Principal) to come to their department meeting. I already knew they topic of complaint -- "how can they expect us to teach special education students who are mainstreamed into general education if they don't provide us with any training. So, I did my research and for the past 12 months I found about a dozen courses offered by local colleges (which would have been paid for by the school system), as well as about another dozen training programs offered by the school system itself (free to teachers). Had any of our 8 science teachers taken any of the opportunities...even though they had been made aware of them...even though they all needed to earn recertification points? No. Easier to just complain.

Bringing class size down has benefit all across the board. Many teachers i've met always consider themselves really busy, and often have a sort of inbuilt aversion to more training programs that they feel they 'have to' attend. Those charged with doing these training sessions, or with making them happen, are seen negatively as a result, leading to complaining, loss of teacher motivation, loss of instituational positive energy, and usually those who education are really for, the students, lose out. Smaller class sizes should mean much less administrative time for the teachers, but only if there's more teachers.

And that means education needs more money. And i believe governments should make education the number one priority. But of course, this does not happen.

There are no simple solutions, but the only ones with any merit require all the interested parties to build bridges as the starting point. I think at the end of the day society needs to accept that more money is needed for education.

[and much much more training in pyschology for teachers...!]

[Scott]

Femifan: I agree with you about rules, but when children are younger it's much better for them to learn to follow rules. It's what keeps us alive until we're old enough to make decisions on our own. We look both ways before crossing the street because Mom told me to. When we are older, we learn why we look both ways.

If children learn to follow rules then it becomes a lot easier for them to analyze and decide on their own what rules to follow. It also helps them to prioritize. If they don't, then you usually end up with an aggressive and under-socialized youth who has simply never learned how to follow rules.

One of things I like about Thailand, at least how it relates to younger grades, is the emphasis on conforming to the rules. That's not a bad concept. I am aware that it can and does get carried to extremes. One of the reasons why I would send a child to school here is because of this. One of the reasons I would seriously think about not sending them to high school here is because of the same thing!

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Femifan: I agree with you about rules, but when children are younger it's much better for them to learn to follow rules. It's what keeps us alive until we're old enough to make decisions on our own. We look both ways before crossing the street because Mom told me to. When we are older, we learn why we look both ways.

If children learn to follow rules then it becomes a lot easier for them to analyze and decide on their own what rules to follow. It also helps them to prioritize. If they don't, then you usually end up with an aggressive and under-socialized youth who has simply never learned how to follow rules.

One of things I like about Thailand, at least how it relates to younger grades, is the emphasis on conforming to the rules. That's not a bad concept. I am aware that it can and does get carried to extremes. One of the reasons why I would send a child to school here is because of this. One of the reasons I would seriously think about not sending them to high school here is because of the same thing!

Absolutely right. Great post.

[femi fan]

Femifan: I agree with you about rules, but when children are younger it's much better for them to learn to follow rules. It's what keeps us alive until we're old enough to make decisions on our own. We look both ways before crossing the street because Mom told me to. When we are older, we learn why we look both ways.

If children learn to follow rules then it becomes a lot easier for them to analyze and decide on their own what rules to follow. It also helps them to prioritize. If they don't, then you usually end up with an aggressive and under-socialized youth who has simply never learned how to follow rules.

One of things I like about Thailand, at least how it relates to younger grades, is the emphasis on conforming to the rules. That's not a bad concept. I am aware that it can and does get carried to extremes. One of the reasons why I would send a child to school here is because of this. One of the reasons I would seriously think about not sending them to high school here is because of the same thing!

Initially, easy to agree with all of this. But...! On second thoughts, your example about crossing the street is more what i might call basic wisdom. Before, the context that i commented on was rules in schools, and while some are necessary it's my experience that so many are not. What a kid has real problems with (perhaps we're talking after 12yo) is rules that they are subjected to that seem to have no basis in reason to their minds. And kids still retain open minds, unlike most adults!

Rules help lead to the conditioning of adults that i feel cause stagnation in many societies, or at least put a real slow growth on positive change.

And in any case, i feel that it's more than possible to create a decent change in education (again, i guess we're talking 12 and up) whereby teachers negotiate classroom rules with their students in the first class or two of the new year. When kids have invested their own ideas in anything in education, with the promptings and encouragement of their teachers, they take much more responsibility for their own behaviour. They also tend to then 'police' each other, thereby taking many potential disciplinary problems out of circulation quickly, and without the intervention of the teacher.

[Scott]

Just a reminder. Don't modify anything in quotes, either by changing the color or the font. This is against forum rules. I believe rule number 29, if you wish to check.

[femi fan]

Just a reminder. Don't modify anything in quotes, either by changing the color or the font. This is against forum rules. I believe rule number 29, if you wish to check.

In case you're referring to my posts i'm unaware of anything i've done wrong. If not, forget me.

[PeaceBlondie]

A post that had to be deleted made several excellent points; perhaps the poster can say it without quotes and inserts. Ill do that now.

IMHO as a non-citizen in Thailand, I suspect most Thais don't care how it's done elsewhere. Even how my M.Ed. daughter does it in Texas or how her highest-class major professor did it.

The failure of teaching Thais to think and to question authority condemns Thailand and Thais. IMHO.

I would not subject luk-krung to six years of prathom here and expect them to ever recover.

[Scott]

Sorry, but quotes of quotes of the deleted post with modified font or color were also deleted.

Sorry, but it's much easier to follow the rules and save us all a lot of trouble--otherwise trying to fix those posts is like trying to pick ant poop out of pepper.

[gerrythepoet]

I do have to apologise to all for I have been up to my neck with examinations and marking them that only now I have a wee bit of time to post this news.

A lot of thought and time has been put into the various comments on this particular topic which is absolutely wonderful.

I cannot jeopardise my situation here but I decided to ask my M1/9 five things and asked them to write them down and if anyone was short by 5 marks to get a Grade 1 then to those that gave me an answer irrespective of whatever it was then they would be credited by a max of five marks. However if they already have a grade other than 0 they would not get the bonus 5 marks.

The Questions were as follows:

1. What do you like in this school?
   
2. What do you not like in this school?
   
3. What would you change in this school?
   
4. What would you improve in this school?
   
5. Do you agree to spend 1.5 million THB on the new building (y/n)
   

I have not reviewed all the answers but a few I did pick up amused me.

I love the trees, hate the toilets, change the teachers ,new classrooms and NO NO NO.

Well those kids are allegedly the best in M1 so I think the future will be interesting

Today as the Old Guard was speaking at Assembly I was thankful that some students simply got up and went to their classes to sit their exams taken out of the schedule for next week.

The old guy was screaming at them to return but they ignored him and to me that tells it all.

Kids are the same all over the world you cannot pull the wool over their eyes every minute of every day.

So congratulations to those kids for I thank you for your courage.

[femi fan]

The "old guard" is probably a good term to describe what i personally call dinosaurs. But i think it's useful to bear in mind why they act and speak in the ways they do: in a nutshell the control they try to exert over all the kids (be they teachers, administrators, whoever) is only because they themselves have led lives tightly controlled by forces they cannot stop.

At some point they will die off or simply retire. We can wait for that no problem. But meanwhile the real work should be done on new generations, and that work must include ways and means to avoid people being controlled by outside forces (eg strict adherence to cultural values, strict adherence to rules that make no sense), and to show them how to take up their own tools to be responsible for their own thinking and ideas.

Knowing the nature of the beast gives us the best chances to tame it. Analyse the old guard, understand what makes them tick, then we can have the means to better create positive change for society.