Phuket Jet-ski Operators Face Insurance Scheme

[george]

Phuket jet-ski operators face insurance scheme

Some of Phuket's jet-ski operators at the crisis

meeting yesterday at Patong Municipality offices.

Phuket Governor Wichai Phraisa-ngop holds up

reports of tourist complaints to an assembled

crowd of jet-ski operators yesterday.

KATHU, PHUKET: -- Phuket’s jet-ski operators will soon have to insure their craft for damage, the Phuket governor told a crowd of industry representatives at a crisis meeting at Patong Municipality offices yesterday.

The measure is aimed at ending the island’s infamous ‘jet-ski scam’, in which unsuspecting tourists are made to pay thousands of baht for spurious repairs to the vehicles after they are returned.

The meeting followed the arrest earlier that day of a jet-ski operator for pointing a gun at British Royal Navy Marines during a dispute over 'damage' to one of the vehicles. The Marines were on shore leave in Patong.

Footage of Winai ‘JJ’ Naiman, 28, pointing a BB gun at the marines was broadcast on British TV on Monday night as part of a show entitled ‘Big Trouble in Tourist Thailand’.

The show has since been uploaded to youtube.com and has provoked widespread debate among Phuket residents on the Phuket Gazette/Thai Visa forum.

The incident captured on camera took place at the end of June this year, while the HMS Bulwark was docked in Phuket.

After a 21-year-old marine is accused of damaging a jet-ski, a heated argument breaks out between a group of marines and Thai jet-ski operators.

Mr Winai demands 44,000 baht for damage which the young marine claims he was not responsible for.

At one point Mr Winai grabs an air rifle and brandishes it at the marines, who appear visibly frightened and apologize profusely.

Tim, a Royal Navy Marine Police officer, enters the argument, demanding, “How come every time one of my guys hires your jet-skis there’s something wrong with it? He didn’t hit anything, nothing has happened.”

After examining the damage, Tim adds, “That’s old damage, that’s not new damage; I can tell by the staining, I know fiber glass.”

Mr Winai is unmoved.

“I don’t worry if you are their boss or you are a captain. This is my business; you’re not my Dad,” he tells Tim in a statement of a type not unusual for jet-ski operators in Patong.

The two become increasingly hostile as Tim offers to pay first 10,000, then 30,000 baht.

Tim then calls Mr Winai a crook and tells the marines to get back on the minibus.

On Mr Winai’s instructions, his workers surround the marines to prevent them from boarding the minibus.

The marines are only allowed to leave after Tim offers to pay Mr Winai 35,000 baht.

Phuket Governor Wichai Phraisa-ngop and Kathu Police Superintendent Grissak Songmoonnark announced Mr Winai’s arrest at Kathu Police Station yesterday morning.

Mr Winai faces weapons possession and extortion charges.

In the afternoon, Gov Wichai moved on to Patong Municipality office where many of the island’s jet-ski operators had assembled for a meeting aimed at ending incidents like the one depicted in the British documentary.

The governor opened the meeting on a tough note.

“In my hand right now are written complaints from Japanese, Chinese, Australian and even Thai tourists, claiming that jet-ski operators in Phuket have cheated them,” he said.

He told the operators they would have to get insurance for their vehicles as it was the best way to put an end to any disputes.

However, some of the operators in attendance said their businesses would not be economic if they had to get insurance.

Tewan “Jom” Promyoung said, “We only have four months to make money on jet-skis during high season, which doesn’t amount to much. If we have to pay 40-50,000 baht a year for insurance, where is our profit then?”

There were additional costs when damage was done to the vehicles, he added.

“How can we be sure the insurance agents will come to the scene as fast as possible? If they’re not quick, we’ll lose money doing the maintenance ourselves,” he said.

Suwimon Saelim, director of the Phuket Provincial Insurance Office, said, “We have never had insurance for jet-skis in Phuket before. We’ll need to have more discussion about this, and we’ll need to find a company willing to insure jet-skis.”

A meeting to hammer out details of such an insurance scheme would take place on September 18 she said.

-- Phuket Gazette 2009-09-11

Look for an extended report on Phuket's jet-skis in next week’s Phuket Gazette, available on the newsstands from September 19.

[LivinginKata]

Easy solution ..... no tourists should hire jet skis. Put these scammers out of business.

[stevenl]

My guess (having worked in insurance in a previous life): no insurance company is willing to insure the jet skis for material damage. If somebody is willing to insure, the premium will be extremely high.

So we expect the jetski operators to pay for insurance (let's say 50,000 Baht per year) and give up on the side money from 'damages'? That is going to cost them hundreds of thousands a year, no way that is going to happen.

Only option: ban them completely, better for the environment and the safety of everybody on the beach as well.

[LivinginKata]

My guess (having worked in insurance in a previous life): no insurance company is willing to insure the jet skis for material damage. If somebody is willing to insure, the premium will be extremely high.

So we expect the jetski operators to pay for insurance (let's say 50,000 Baht per year) and give up on the side money from 'damages'? That is going to cost them hundreds of thousands a year, no way that is going to happen.

Only option: ban them completely, better for the environment and the safety of everybody on the beach as well.

Exactly.

Does anyone really think the jet ski guys are actually going to pay out insurance premiums when right now they make a great income from claiming damages from unwary tourists. Dream on baby...

[TheWalkingMan]

Let the actuaries have a go at deciding the premiums. No insurance, no license. Easy. But I am skeptical that it will happen.

Does anyone or their friends own a jet ski business in or outside of Thailand?

TheWalkingMan

[Crossy]

Would a pre-condition checklist similar to that used when hiring a car do the trick?

Both owner and renter examine the craft for visible damage which is then marked on a serial numbered form and signed by both. One copy kept by the owner the other (important) copy kept by the renter, owner could supply a zip-loc bag to keep it dry.

Significantly cheaper than insurance and less wriggle room for both parties.

Or is the simple solution too hard? I'll get my hat

From http://www.dmpowersports.com/jetskirentals.htm

All renters must be at least 21 years of age with proof (drivers license) and all operators must be at least 18 years of age. Renters must sign a rental agreement, liability waiver, acknowledgement of state law and a pre-condition checklist before operating any of the jet skis.**

[cdnvic]

Simple solution, licence them like taxis. No insurance, no licence. If a tourist rents from an unlicensed jet ski shop, he takes his chances.

[LivinginKata]

Would a pre-condition checklist similar to that used when hiring a car do the trick?

Both owner and renter examine the craft for visible damage which is then marked on a serial numbered form and signed by both. One copy kept by the owner the other (important) copy kept by the renter, owner could supply a zip-loc bag to keep it dry.

Significantly cheaper than insurance and less wriggle room for both parties.

Or is the simple solution too hard? I'll get my hat

Good idea, but it will never work as the whole idea by the jet ski guys is to make the easy money by claiming damages. Unfortunately the casual tourists will always be unaware of this scam and will be get caught up with the rediculous claim demands (with menace).

[LivinginKata]

Simple solution, licence them like taxis. No insurance, no licence. If a tourist rents from an unlicensed jet ski shop, he takes his chances.

And the merry-go-round continues.

[jasreeve17]

Would a pre-condition checklist similar to that used when hiring a car do the trick?

Both owner and renter examine the craft for visible damage which is then marked on a serial numbered form and signed by both. One copy kept by the owner the other (important) copy kept by the renter, owner could supply a zip-loc bag to keep it dry.

Significantly cheaper than insurance and less wriggle room for both parties.

Or is the simple solution too hard? I'll get my hat

Good idea, but it will never work as the whole idea by the jet ski guys is to make the easy money by claiming damages. Unfortunately the casual tourists will always be unaware of this scam and will be get caught up with the rediculous claim demands (with menace).

Yes, they want the easy money gained through scams, intimidation and police coersion... Clean up the entire beach, and get the mafia types away from vunerable holidaymakers (Thai and foreign).

[LivinLOS]

The link in the chain that needs to be said is this, Jetskis businesses are owned by the local families, those local families are the very few registered voters for Patongs elections, those votes put Pian and Chirat up to the trough every few years.

Its a tolerated scam because it suits everyone. The on the ground boys make money and can act like tough guys.. The police make money and kick it upstream through the ranks.. The local families make money and in turn that concession is leverage for votes and hence those sitting right at the top maintain thier grip on town.

This isnt about one incident, its about far more than just jetskis.. Its down to the very attitude that 'we are Thai' and that gives them the right to do any scam / theft / control they like over the never ending stream of tourists. Its the attitude they are farming the pink coconuts and that more just grow on trees every high season. Thai people are not great at cause and effect thinking, or future planning, they have seen 15 years of non stop growth and that creates the mindset that business will always grow, more tourists will always come, bringing ever greater sums of money. But now they have hit tipping point, Phuket is now not much cheaper than the west, drinks, poor quality clothing, etc etc is on par but Thais dont know that. The attitude that you can do anything because "we are Thai people" and that visitors are there to be ripped off is now being covered, its all over youtube, being covered in shows like these and the global impression that these things create go a lot further and faster than some 'amuzing Thailand' adverts on CNN.

I should also point out Thai people can be genuinely friendly accommodating and superb to be around. But this island is attracting people from outside the province whose aim of coming here it to make as much from the unprotected rich farangs by fair means or foul, its not a fair indication of the whole country but its rapidly becoming an on the ground truth here on this island.

[Gary A]

Why would the guys who rent out these things give up a lucrative scheme to cheat tourists? It would be up to the corrupt police to stop this scam. You KNOW that's NOT going to happen. They too would lose their share.

[bellachg]

Would a pre-condition checklist similar to that used when hiring a car do the trick?

Both owner and renter examine the craft for visible damage which is then marked on a serial numbered form and signed by both. One copy kept by the owner the other (important) copy kept by the renter, owner could supply a zip-loc bag to keep it dry.

Significantly cheaper than insurance and less wriggle room for both parties.

Or is the simple solution too hard? I'll get my hat

Good idea, but it will never work as the whole idea by the jet ski guys is to make the easy money by claiming damages. Unfortunately the casual tourists will always be unaware of this scam and will be get caught up with the rediculous claim demands (with menace).

Perhaps it can work, but only if the tourist is aware of the fact that he can insist on it. At each rental area there should be prominent signs (regularly re-placed if removed) warning customers of possible extortion and that they must protect themselves by obtaining a pre-rental condition agreement. Tourists arriving at Phuket airport should also be handed a printed warning against scams such as this. Better though just require no-fault insurance. The horrendous premiums will force them out of business. A previous governor has promised they would be phased out and by now there should not have been any of them left. So they had ample notice. If they bought new jetskis regardless, they got only themselves to blame. What is so different about Patong than Pang Nga? People there have accepted an outright ban.

Thai rentees and residents can defend themselves in a court of law, although they may have to shell out for the cost of a lawyer, But tourists, most of them have a pre-booked flight to return home, are at the mercy of the extorters. They simply cannot wait for a court hearing, if they miss their flight home they risk not only loosing the cost of the return flight, but also their jobs. The extorters well know this. It is worse for those at the airport waiting for their flights, and then nabbed for alleged shoplifting at King Power. They have no time at all to defend themselves. Any loss of business due to the bad publicity through the television series is well deserved by all the local people in Patong. While most did not participated in this, they are guilty in allowing it to happen.

[johninthai]

The link in the chain that needs to be said is this, Jetskis businesses are owned by the local families, those local families are the very few registered voters for Patongs elections, those votes put Pian and Chirat up to the trough every few years.

Its a tolerated scam because it suits everyone. The on the ground boys make money and can act like tough guys.. The police make money and kick it upstream through the ranks.. The local families make money and in turn that concession is leverage for votes and hence those sitting right at the top maintain thier grip on town.

This isnt about one incident, its about far more than just jetskis.. Its down to the very attitude that 'we are Thai' and that gives them the right to do any scam / theft / control they like over the never ending stream of tourists. Its the attitude they are farming the pink coconuts and that more just grow on trees every high season. Thai people are not great at cause and effect thinking, or future planning, they have seen 15 years of non stop growth and that creates the mindset that business will always grow, more tourists will always come, bringing ever greater sums of money. But now they have hit tipping point, Phuket is now not much cheaper than the west, drinks, poor quality clothing, etc etc is on par but Thais dont know that. The attitude that you can do anything because "we are Thai people" and that visitors are there to be ripped off is now being covered, its all over youtube, being covered in shows like these and the global impression that these things create go a lot further and faster than some 'amuzing Thailand' adverts on CNN.

I should also point out Thai people can be genuinely friendly accommodating and superb to be around. But this island is attracting people from outside the province whose aim of coming here it to make as much from the unprotected rich farangs by fair means or foul, its not a fair indication of the whole country but its rapidly becoming an on the ground truth here on this island.

This isnt about one incident, its about far more than just jetskis.. Its down to the very attitude that 'we are Thai' and that gives them the right to do any scam / theft / control they like over the never ending stream of tourists. Its the attitude they are farming the pink coconuts and that more just grow on trees every high season. Thai people are not great at cause and effect thinking, or future planning, they have seen 15 years of non stop growth and that creates the mindset that business will always grow, more tourists will always come, bringing ever greater sums of money. But now they have hit tipping point

dead right livinlos...but everyone thinks LOS..land of smiles, right? wrong ..land of SMIRKS !! right..

Lets not forget as you point out... this isn't just jetskis...from the moment you arrive in Phuket, as a newbie you are very obvious to these lowlifes.I recently had a young lady[ friend of my daughter] come visit my daughter,also on holiday here.She paid1,500 baht to get from airport to kata...HER QUOTE.."he was a really nice guy ,told me should be 2000 but happy day for you, only1500baht!"

Then every single thing you want will be loaded against you,The 2 tiered pricing system is open slather!

When you understand the Thais and are confided in and accepted[ especially in TOURIST AREAS ] you will hear" Farang in thailand generally are HATED" We'll take your money and SMILE..[sMIRK] and immediately you go, the talk amongst nearby traders is along the lines of"How much did you TAKE them for?"

One thing that makes it easy for this to happen is people on holiday see the prices as generally cheaper than "back home" and pay the high price and also most farang dont like to haggle for lower price.And up till now there has been an endless stream of WALKING ATM's, but this is changing so expect bigger and worse problems in all areas, because it will be OUR FAULT.

Don't want all you.."if you dont like it p-ss off brigade" to come back at me with all your venom, these are hard cold facts..I know i am still a newbie{only 14 years here} but have many ,many good Thai friends and family throughout the LOS, its a fact that the vultures and lowlifes of T/land have flocked here after seeing how the local "families"[from beach boys to BIG BOSS] have enriched themselves at our expense, and figure they all can have a piece themselves.

Its all going to end in tears!! Sooner or later...

Edited September 13, 2009 by johninthai

[keemapoot]

Would a pre-condition checklist similar to that used when hiring a car do the trick?

Both owner and renter examine the craft for visible damage which is then marked on a serial numbered form and signed by both. One copy kept by the owner the other (important) copy kept by the renter, owner could supply a zip-loc bag to keep it dry.

Significantly cheaper than insurance and less wriggle room for both parties.

Or is the simple solution too hard? I'll get my hat

Good idea, but it will never work as the whole idea by the jet ski guys is to make the easy money by claiming damages. Unfortunately the casual tourists will always be unaware of this scam and will be get caught up with the rediculous claim demands (with menace).

Pre-inspection wouldn't work in most cases for another reason: the jetskis are most of the time already in the water and any damage underneath cannot be seen. Only when they are hoisted on the trailers can you see the underneath. This fact is used by the scammer operators who rent the jetskis to unsuspecting tourists with the damage already on the machine underneath. When the tourists return, the operator hauls the jetski onto the sand, and "inspects" the underbelly, whereupon, 'surprise' there is new damage. Old scam which they have been working for years and years...