Thai Soldiers Accused Of Burning Alive Teenage Logger

[jackspratt]

............................................and intrusions into another country to steal natural resources can be counted as a act of war. Hence the 'technical'.

That doesn't mean it is right, but it would be good to wait for some more facts before slagging of the military too much.

So cutting down a few trees can henceforth be considered to be an act of war?

God give us strength, and save us from this hyperbole.

[harleyclarkey]

If you have any evidence that the propaganda from one side is the truth, then please share it. Ofcourse of those soldiers, if true, should be arrested.

But the propaganda rarely is.

Well then we may as well not bother reading nor believing anything at all here..or in any other media. It could be all propaganda?

Read everything. Believe nothing.

Can't agree. What is the point of reading something if you are already saying to yourself..."I don't believe this"????

[TAWP]

Read everything. Believe nothing.

Can't agree. What is the point of reading something if you are already saying to yourself..."I don't believe this"????

Being Mr. Literal today are we?

Ok then...

[mc2]

If you have any evidence that the propaganda from one side is the truth, then please share it. Ofcourse of those soldiers, if true, should be arrested.

But the propaganda rarely is.

Well then we may as well not bother reading nor believing anything at all here..or in any other media. It could be all propaganda?

Read everything. Believe nothing.

Can't agree. What is the point of reading something if you are already saying to yourself..."I don't believe this"????

he gets to think he is the only one in the world who is correct

[harleyclarkey]

Read everything. Believe nothing.

Can't agree. What is the point of reading something if you are already saying to yourself..."I don't believe this"????

Being Mr. Literal today are we?

Ok then...

Sorry....I don't believe anything you write.

[harleyclarkey]

Read everything. Believe nothing.

Can't agree. What is the point of reading something if you are already saying to yourself..."I don't believe this"????

he gets to think he is the only one in the world who is correct

That is sure worth believing in and agreeing to!!

[johnsona]

Thais,

You have no human beings feeling. The 16 years old "Rith" was arrested by Thais Soldiers and burned alive. It's a true, but you all turned it as fun. You have no human feeling. You are all animals. I don't know how you think about your people action. If you are really a budishm, you should have feeling about that kids. Think about it, if he was your brother or your kid how would feel about it?

I believe you all make Cambodian people hate you. And the world look that way to. Today, American people and government stand with Cambodian people. Although you are richer than us, but the world has changed. We have many good friends, who are human not like you people.

I want to see the boy scott of Thais products will continue around the world with those who love peace and justice. You cannot live alone.

September 14, 2009.

Thais soldiers shot over a group of Cambodian Civilians who crossed the border to log the trees over Thai territory. A boy who was 16 years old was arrested by the Thais soldier, and later they burned him alive. The boy was dead.

This violence is not uncommon for Thais soldiers who are very aggressive and violent with its neighbors. There has no any human right groups been filed any complains with this violence and non human action. Many Cambodian Civilians, who crossed to Thai illegally, were raped, killed, and jailed. The actions of Thais soldiers and its government has angered by many Cambodian people. And they believe that this actions will make more cambodian people to hate Thais.

Who could help to find the justice for the 16 years old boy?

This blog is intended to let the world know how Thais soldiers and its government treat their neighbors. How do you think about Thais and its government? Posted by Justice , the citizen of United States of America

[johnsona]

I think the cancer between Thais and Cambodians would never get recovery. The wound is getting bigger, while Cambodian Government and Thais Government have tried to work very hard to get both countries' relationship better, another bad news is coming, because non action human of a group of Thais soldiers who burned a 16 years old boy alive.

I have surveyed alot of Cambodian families about this situation, they said that they felt very painful, and they will not be nice to Thais people again. They said they cannot accept it. We are really enermy now, and this will continue forever to our new generation.

I asked them if Thais government would bring those who commited crime to justice what you will think about your future relationship with this country. They responded, I don't think so. Thais have never kept its responsibility what they have done.

I feel so sorry for the 16 years old boy, you now have a peace. Please take arrest. Don't worry about hunger and any sadness! Aman!

[webfact]

Army denies Cambodian teenager killed by Thai military

BANGKOK, Sept 17 (TNA) - A senior Thai Army officer denied a report in a Cambodian newspaper that Thai soldiers shot a Cambodian teenager and burned him alive, saying that the military units along the Thai-Cambodian border denied that such an incident happened.

Lt-Gen Wiboonsak Neephan, commander of the Second Army Region responsible for security affairs along the northeastern border told Thai News Agency that he had inquired every units along Thai-Cambodian border and the officials confirmed that nothing similar to the news report ever occurred and that he did not know why there was such a report in the media.

He affirmed that Thai soldiers would not do such a barbaric act as reported in the Cambodian newspaper and stated he thought that the information could be incorrect.

Gen Wiboonsak affirmed that the Thai-Cambodian Border Peacekeeping Committee is working closely to avoid border disputes and to offer certainty that actions are within the legal framework and agreements.

He added that Thailand and Cambodia had agreement to solve border disputes and the incident should not have happened.

The English-language Phnom Penh Post on Monday quoted Thon Nol, governor of Samrong district in Oddar Meanchey province as saying that a Cambodian teenager named Yon Rith, 16, was arrested and burned alive after Thai armed forces accused him of illegally felling trees.

Another teenager from the same village in Kon Kreal commune, 18-year-old Mao Kleung, was also shot and seriously wounded, he said, but villagers managed to carry him to Cambodian territory, and he is now in an Oddar Meanchey hospital.

Meanwhile, foreign media quoted Cambodian Deputy Foreign Minister Ouch Borith as saying that he had seen evidence proving the incident took place and urged Thailand to investigate what he said was a "brutal and inhumane" act.

Mr Borith said he had seen photographs of the charred body of a boy. He did not provide any evidence Thai soldiers were responsible.

As for the planned rally of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) near the Preah Vihear temple, Gen Wiboonsak said the contested area was dangerous zone and had few accommodations to facilitate the demonstrators.

The PAD "Yellow Shirts" plan to rally at the border province of Si Sa Ket on Saturday to protest against the Cambodian government, urging the Cambodians to withdraw their military and civilians from occupying the 4.6 square kilometre contested zone surrounding the 11th-century temple.

He said the Thai military had provided an area for the protesters to gather and urged the people who joined the rally to demonstrate under the legal framework and to bear in mind safety concerns.

Gen Wiboonsak said he believed the public know about the Thai-Cambodian border disputes and it would depend on cooperation from the public to ease the problems. He added that the public should realise (the importance) oft bilateral relations between Thailand and Cambodia and admitted that the protest may cause difficulty for the border talks.

Meanwhile, a reporter in Si Sa Ket reported that police had set up barricades at Phoomsarol temple in Kantharalak district to block the road to Khao Phra Wihan National Park to inspect vehicles and people who pass the entrance to the park.

The reporter said paramilitary rangers and military personnel from the Suranaree Task Force had also set up barricades with barbed-wire and other obstacles at the Forest Fire Control Unit Office about100 metres from the national park checkpoint and did not allow anyone to enter the park, including media.

Khao Phra Viharn National Park is the Thai gateway to the ancient Preah Vihear Temple.

Twenty PAD members reportedly occupied the border cooperation office near the park checkpoint and security personnel detained them at the office.

In related developments, French news agency Agence France Presse quoted the Cambodian Defence Ministry as saying that Cambodia deployed riot police Thursday at an ancient temple on the disputed border with Thailand where Thai protesters are due to hold a protest at the weekend.

Cambodian defence ministry spokesman Chhum Socheat was quoted saying that 50 police with dogs, batons, and tear gas were deployed at Preah Vihear temple in case the Thai protesters illegally crossed the border to cause problems. (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/09/18

[webfact]

Thailand 'lying' over boy's death, says Cambodia

By The Nation

Published on September 18, 2009

Thailand 'lying' over boy's death, says Cambodia

Cambodia yesterday accused Thailand of lying when it denied involvement in the death of a Cambodian teenager near the border of Thailand's northeastern Surin province.

The young Cambodian was reportedly shot and burned alive as he and other Cambodian loggers tried to escape from the Thai military into Cambodia's Oddar Meanchey province.

The Second Army Region Commander Lt. General Wiboonsak Neeparn said he had checked records of all agencies under his command and found no evidence of any shooting.

"There was no such incident in the area. I wonder why Cambodia made such a report?" the commander said.

The Thai Foreign Ministry has maintained the same stance, saying the brutal incident never happened.

Ministry spokesperson Wimon Kidchob said earlier Thai soldiers fired bullets into the air after finding eight Cambodians sneaking into Thailand to cut down trees.

The denial has angered authorities in Cambodia, both in Oddar Meanchey and in Phnom Penh.

Oddar Meanchey Governor Pich Sokhin called the Thai assertion a lie. "How could our people have been injured and killed if their soldiers shot into the air?" the governor was quoted by the Phnom Penh Post.

"Their interpretation is a lie to avoid responsibility and to hide their cruelty from the public. Our people are injured and dead. How can they say they are not responsible?"

The Cambodian Foreign Ministry has sent a diplomatic note to Bangkok asking for an explanation and is still awaiting an official reply.

Phnom Penh has urged Thailand to conduct an investigation into the case and find and punish those responsible.

-- The Nation 2009/09/18

[klikster]

Tak Bai - they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks.

Bullshit!

A civilized military always has the option of holding "prisoners" and waiting for more transportation.

[apetley]

The Second Army Region Commander Lt. General Wiboonsak Neeparn said "There was no such incident in the area."

Ministry spokesperson Wimon Kidchob said earlier Thai soldiers fired bullets into the air after finding eight Cambodians sneaking into Thailand to cut down trees.

Well these two statements seemingly contradict each other.

http://lg-media.blogspot.com/2009/09/thai-...odian-alive.htm

This link contains a fairly detailed report of what may have happened.

And now the Cambodians claim to have some pics too.

[geriatrickid]

I am still willing to bet it has nothing to do with the army but solders are involved and nothing to do with the border or ether country.  Just the price of teak.

I agree with you.

The organizations that traffic in illegal timber in the region also traffic in humans, drugs and endangered wildlife. The perps are having a good laugh as the Thai military takes the heat for something it most likely did not countenance, even though the implicated parties may have been affiliated with the military.

[Plus]

Tak Bai - they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks.

Bullshit!

A civilized military always has the option of holding "prisoners" and waiting for more transportation.

They didn't have holding facilities in Tak Bai, certainly not for a thousand of men, and they were pressed for time as night was approaching.

My point was that deaths were unintentional, which is different from catching teenagers and burning them alive.

The page with the "details" has been removed from the blog, or maybe the link was wrong.

Shooting in the air to scare away illegal loggers is not the same as shooting and burning them.

So far there's no evidence that Thai military was involved, and they are not the only ones with guns in those jungles.

The "Cambodian" contribution in this thread speaks for itself. Their credibility is zero.

[orangezeke]

I think the story of Thais burning a kid alive is not plausible at all. I can't even imagine how it could have happened.

I can.

I can also "imagine" them causing the death of scores of Bak Tai protestors by stacking them like cord wood on trucks.

I can also "imagine" them of shooting and hanging Thai students during periods of unrest.

I can also "imagine" them of towing Rohingya refugees back out to sea and setting them adrift.

You can't "imagine" these events but it does not mean that they do not occur.

Tak Bai - they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks. They didn't plan for them to suffocate. Burning kids alive is different.

Atrocities during "unrest" were committed not by the military but by militias, and it's a thirty year old story.

Boat people are not particularly welcome anywhere in the world, and since it's not Thailand's job to sort out Burmese on their way to Malaysia, they set them on their course.

As you might have noticed, none of the countries in the region blames Thailand for that - they know they wouldn't want to be in Thai shoes when hundreds of male muslims arrive on their shores.

This is again different from burning kids alive.

And since you have such a vivid imagination - why don't you describe your version of events? Did they tie him to a stake? Dozed him in gasoline? How could this burning alive happen? And how to Cambodians know the kid was alive when his body burned? Do they have forensic crime labs in that province?

I'm afraid this story has all the hallmarks of Cambodian hysteria of the kind that led them to burn Thai embassy a while ago.

gee plus, this one has to be a highlight, even for you. i might even copy it down for future reference. "they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks" as an excuse ? nice. what they actually had to do was ensure a level of care. if they had to transport people, they do so properly according prisoners their rights. we are talking about the thai national military here, with a budget for things like buses. their job is protecting thais which after all is what the prisoners were, despite the fact they pray to a different god.

in thirty years will this 'story' also not be worth hearing again ? learning from history...ha...who needs it right ?

"none of the countries in the region blames Thailand for that". what ? who did you expect would speak out ? burma ? i seem to remember indonesia had plenty to say on the matter and anyway, do you need diplomatic censure to know right from wrong ?

"disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind…human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people" – the universal declaration of human rights.

it seems to me there is plenty of history on which to base an opinion.

[apetley]

Tak Bai - they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks.

Bullshit!

A civilized military always has the option of holding "prisoners" and waiting for more transportation.

They didn't have holding facilities in Tak Bai, certainly not for a thousand of men, and they were pressed for time as night was approaching.

My point was that deaths were unintentional, which is different from catching teenagers and burning them alive.

The page with the "details" has been removed from the blog, or maybe the link was wrong.

Shooting in the air to scare away illegal loggers is not the same as shooting and burning them.

So far there's no evidence that Thai military was involved, and they are not the only ones with guns in those jungles.

The "Cambodian" contribution in this thread speaks for itself. Their credibility is zero.

Tak Bai was a planned operation.

It's absolutely disingenuous to gloss over what was manslaughter at best, culpable murder at worst by describing it as unintentional.

[Plus]

"they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks" as an excuse ? nice. what they actually had to do was ensure a level of care. if they had to transport people, they do so properly according prisoners their rights. we are talking about the thai national military here, with a budget for things like buses.

They had a few hours before dark to organize this operation, there was no time to push the budget for buses and wait for delivery.

They had ten trucks that could be locked from outside, prisoner rights or not, that was all there was.

And no, they couldn't lease buses suitable for transporting prisoners from some company on a few hours notice.

Again, the simple point that the deaths were unintended is escaping you. That's the difference between Tak Bai and the alleged burning people alive.

Rohingyas were pushed back according to the rule book at the time. Other countries are not represented only by diplomats - they also have media to express their feelings.

[apetley]

"they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks" as an excuse ? nice. what they actually had to do was ensure a level of care. if they had to transport people, they do so properly according prisoners their rights. we are talking about the thai national military here, with a budget for things like buses.

They had a few hours before dark to organize this operation, there was no time to push the budget for buses and wait for delivery.

They had ten trucks that could be locked from outside, prisoner rights or not, that was all there was.

And no, they couldn't lease buses suitable for transporting prisoners from some company on a few hours notice.

Again, the simple point that the deaths were unintended is escaping you. That's the difference between Tak Bai and the alleged burning people alive.

Rohingyas were pushed back according to the rule book at the time. Other countries are not represented only by diplomats - they also have media to express their feelings.

You can keep bleating unintended but is there no such thing as responsibility or even common sense in the Thai Military handbook?

When you pile human being on top of human being there comes a point where even the most cerebral challenged must realise that those at the bottom of the heap will find it difficult to breathe.

[Plus]

Yes, but it's a matter of judgment error - they didn't think piles were deadly, I think about 90% managed to survive.

Similar example - when there was hostage rescue operation in Moscow theater a few years ago and the commandos poured some gas into the building, they didn't expect that about a third of hostages were already exhausted and wouldn't survive the effects. That was over a hundred completely innocent people.

Similarly, the excuse after Tak Bai was that the prisoners were fasting and so not as strong as normal men. That's an insensitive thing to say, but it really points to judgment error than intention.

I would agree to manslaughter charges, but in this case we are comparing it to burning people alive, which is not only premeditated murder, it's inhumanity of the first degree.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Plus

[Scott]

I was wondering what had happened to that very funny guy who was Saddam Hussein's information minister during the Gulf War. Now I know. He posts on ThaiVisa!

He could explain away pretty much anything, especially the truth.

[apetley]

It's a shame when, at best, negligent inhumanity is passed off as an error of judgement.

Anyway, I have gone too far off topic.

This thread should be covering the death of a Cambodian teenager.

[orangezeke]

"they had to put a thousand people on ten trucks" as an excuse ? nice. what they actually had to do was ensure a level of care. if they had to transport people, they do so properly according prisoners their rights. we are talking about the thai national military here, with a budget for things like buses.

They had a few hours before dark to organize this operation, there was no time to push the budget for buses and wait for delivery.

They had ten trucks that could be locked from outside, prisoner rights or not, that was all there was.

And no, they couldn't lease buses suitable for transporting prisoners from some company on a few hours notice.

Again, the simple point that the deaths were unintended is escaping you. That's the difference between Tak Bai and the alleged burning people alive.

Rohingyas were pushed back according to the rule book at the time. Other countries are not represented only by diplomats - they also have media to express their feelings.

the bit about the buses and budget was hardly the point and you know it. the way you pick out the fluff to comment on while ignoring the rest is just boring. also, excuses like "a few hours before dark" and only having "ten trucks that could be locked from outside" is quite simply not good enough. why cant we hold the military to the very highest standards ? why can't thai people expect protection from their soldiers, rather than your artificial version of events.

in reality, my point was that the thai military has a proven track record of negligent behaviour that has cost lives. the fact that the guy in charge of the Tak Bai event was also involved in the treatment of the boat people is perhaps the saddest indictment of all.

"the simple point that the deaths were unintended is escaping you". i promise you, it is not. what is escaping me plus is the ability to see things the way you do..."it's a matter of judgment error - they didn't think piles were deadly, I think about 90% managed to survive".

yet, i am going to go ahead and assume that the tak bai event wasn't intended as you suggest. while i am at it, i am going to agree that the reason they died is because they were fasting, and that healthy men would have survived being stacked like that for hours. that safer options simply were not there. that nobody is at fault, and everyone should write it off as an unfortunate incident that has nothing to do with the southern unrest. rohingyas ? never heard of them. burning people alive ? couldn't happen.

you know why i have to do that ? because any other point of view would keep me awake at night.

you must sleep like a baby.

[Lancelot]

There was a news snippet on TV a couple of days ago. A lady in Chonburi was doused with gasoline and set afire. Lucky for the lady that most of the gas only hit her arm and looks like she will survive. But I'm sure that it was unintentional and her beloved boy friend never had any idea that the gasoline would actually ignite when he threw the match. Just like those guys in Bak Tai that were loaded onto trucks like cord wood. What reasonable person could have foreseen that some guys on the bottom might die?

People are people and my point is that yes, even the Thais are capable of intentional cruelity too.

Now, I'm tuning back to my favorite TV show, "The Twilight Zone" staring a cast of posters from TV.

La, la la, I'm not listnin...

[Plus]

excuses like "a few hours before dark" and only having "ten trucks that could be locked from outside" is quite simply not good enough. why cant we hold the military to the very highest standards ?

It's not an excuse, it's the reality - a thousand men in an open area, a couple of hours to make a decision and organize transport to the nearest army camp with only a few trucks available.

Your rhetoric doesn't provide any solutions.

There was a news snippet on TV a couple of days ago. A lady in Chonburi was doused with gasoline and set afire. Lucky for the lady that most of the gas only hit her arm and looks like she will survive. But I'm sure that it was unintentional and her beloved boy friend never had any idea that the gasoline would actually ignite when he threw the match.

That was clearly a crime of passion. Did those Thai soldiers (that no one provided any evidence were even there) been spurned by that boy's infidelity?

[Thai at Heart]

Tak Bai is absolutely indefensible.

There is no rational argument that can be brought for armed men in control of a situation loading people in this way.

Legally, they could have done anything they wanted under the various acts in place at the time. Excusing their acts because they couldn't get hold buses in time is absolutely pathetic.

Believe it or not, most armies actually study quite well what conditions it takes to kill a human being.

At the minimum, gross incompetence. At the worst wilful homicide.

[Plus]

Legally you can do anything, like order buses to appear out of the blue.

Why don't you think for a second of logistics of moving a thousand of men on a short notice?

You can't put them on interprovincial buses, they'd just jump out of the windows, and it's not like Tak Bai has a fleet of buses just sitting and waiting there anyway.

As for stacking people on top of each other - that was probably the only way to fit a required number of prisoners on one truck.

I wasn't there, you weren't there. But if low ranked officers say they got an order to put a hundred people in one truck and they've got nothing else to go with, what were they supposed to do? Refuse to follow? And then what? Wait for the night to come and the men would just run off in the darkness?

Who, in your mind, should be held responsible? They guy who couldn't magically produce fifty prisoner transport trucks? The guy who said - load them on, we have no other options? They guys who pushed them on the trucks?

Engage your brains a little, put yourself mentally in that situation, try to visualize the problems, the chain of command, your own duties and your orders. It shouldn't be that hard.

Will you have balls to rebel and tell the commanding officer to fuc_k off in the name of human rights and risk losing your own life in the process?

It's so easy to demand bravery from others when you post on the Internet anonymously.

[Thai at Heart]

Legally you can do anything, like order buses to appear out of the blue.

Why don't you think for a second of logistics of moving a thousand of men on a short notice?

You can't put them on interprovincial buses, they'd just jump out of the windows, and it's not like Tak Bai has a fleet of buses just sitting and waiting there anyway.

As for stacking people on top of each other - that was probably the only way to fit a required number of prisoners on one truck.

I wasn't there, you weren't there. But if low ranked officers say they got an order to put a hundred people in one truck and they've got nothing else to go with, what were they supposed to do? Refuse to follow? And then what? Wait for the night to come and the men would just run off in the darkness?

Who, in your mind, should be held responsible? They guy who couldn't magically produce fifty prisoner transport trucks? The guy who said - load them on, we have no other options? They guys who pushed them on the trucks?

Engage your brains a little, put yourself mentally in that situation, try to visualize the problems, the chain of command, your own duties and your orders. It shouldn't be that hard.

Will you have balls to rebel and tell the commanding officer to fuc_k off in the name of human rights and risk losing your own life in the process?

It's so easy to demand bravery from others when you post on the Internet anonymously.

Put myself mentally in their position? Engage my brain? Since when would it have been acceptable if these were prisoners of war?

TIT is not a defence for incompetence from the armed forces. Demand bravery? Demand competence would be enough.

Did they not teach the so competent army how to hold a position and handle prisoners in their own backyard. God forbid they would have to do it in a foreign country.

[JUDAS]

Legally you can do anything, like order buses to appear out of the blue.

Why don't you think for a second of logistics of moving a thousand of men on a short notice?

You can't put them on interprovincial buses, they'd just jump out of the windows, and it's not like Tak Bai has a fleet of buses just sitting and waiting there anyway.

As for stacking people on top of each other - that was probably the only way to fit a required number of prisoners on one truck.

I wasn't there, you weren't there. But if low ranked officers say they got an order to put a hundred people in one truck and they've got nothing else to go with, what were they supposed to do? Refuse to follow? And then what? Wait for the night to come and the men would just run off in the darkness?

Who, in your mind, should be held responsible? They guy who couldn't magically produce fifty prisoner transport trucks? The guy who said - load them on, we have no other options? They guys who pushed them on the trucks?

Engage your brains a little, put yourself mentally in that situation, try to visualize the problems, the chain of command, your own duties and your orders. It shouldn't be that hard.

Will you have balls to rebel and tell the commanding officer to fuc_k off in the name of human rights and risk losing your own life in the process?

It's so easy to demand bravery from others when you post on the Internet anonymously.

Have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CGlTYqqK98...feature=related Have a read: http://www.upiasia.com/Human_Rights/2009/0...sappoints/4198/

[Thai at Heart]

Have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CGlTYqqK98...feature=related Have a read: http://www.upiasia.com/Human_Rights/2009/0...sappoints/4198/

Not much to say after that.

Absolutely indefensible.

[apetley]

Have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CGlTYqqK98...feature=related Have a read: http://www.upiasia.com/Human_Rights/2009/0...sappoints/4198/

Not much to say after that.

Absolutely indefensible.

But according to some unintentional.

My wife, Thai, just watched the youtube video and was genuinely shocked at the violence perpetrated.