Shinawatra Wealth Not Ill-gotten, Claims Pojaman

[animatic]

Yeah and Republicans aren't racist either.

So, can somebody remind me why this woman isn't in jail for tax evasion? What happens to a Farang if they run away from a court date and later return to Thailand?

What do Republicans have to do with this? It seems to me that only the Democrats are the ones that talk race all the time... Handouts not Handups!

Yet to see a handup from a USA Republican. Never in decades.

More a hands in the face to get pushed back down. Gatekeepers of the national glass ceiling.

I have seen lots of cost cutting usually to those who are least are able to make ends meet,

who's lives were worst effected by it, but not from lack of will to try, but lack of ability.

As a registered Republican in nauseates me, and I vote against this myopic mean-spiritedness in the party.

Why is Potjamin not in jail yet... good lawyers. At least defense lawyers, not tax attorneys for sure.

She likely can argue her husband demanded she go out of the country with him,

and she had to as wife...and in Thailand that might fly.

Farangs are not Thais and so the niceties of Thai society don't apply,

and they can be seen as disrespecting Thai justice and the book thrown at them.

Foreigners in most other countries do not get off lighter for being foreign either.

Edited September 16, 2009 by animatic

[brahmburgers]

One key issue in all this, and the incident that started the cracks in the Shinawatra empire, was whether or not there was blatant tax evasion from the enormous proceeds of the sale of AIS to Singapore's Temasak. Of course there are numerous other alleged illegal maneuverings involving T and his ilk, not least is their busy shell game of selling stocks to each other. They did this primarily to hide assets, but also to gift one another and to confuse regulators. Example: T's sister rec'd a boatload of AIS stock at 10 baht per share. When people ask why no one paid any tax on that gift (err sorry, that 'business deal'), she says she shouldn't have to pay tax because she hadn't sold any of it yet. Then she sells the stock, several months later for over 100 baht per share, and then weeks after that, she sold her remaining AIS stocks to Temasak for under Bt.50/share - and still avoids tax requirements! That's just a tiny portion of a giant shell that the Shinawatras have been playing, all the while stashing big money away overseas, and avoiding taxes, and laughing at any mention of 'regulators' because, at the time he was PM, T was untouchable.

The land fraud case, which sullied T, is just the tip of the iceburg of the mafia-minded family (or perhaps they're more like the Madoffs), and it was prosecuted because it was relatively easy. However, the other deceptions that the Sinawatras are accused of are more convoluted and involve shady overseas money laundering, etc, - so they will be tougher to prosecute. I don't envy the authorities who take on the task of trying to compile all the data/papers involved. They're up against a billionaire who's spent a significant % of his calories and money trying to do all he (and his family) can to continue to avoid being forthright.

[george]

Pinthongta denies acting as Thaksin's nominee

BANGKOK: -- Tearful Pinthongta Shinawatra Thursday hugged her mother Khunying Pojaman for consolation and heaved a sign of relief after stepping down from the witness stand defending the charge of unusual wealth involving her father and ex-premier Thaksin.

In her testimony at the Supreme Court, Pinthongta insisted she built up her share of the Bt76 billion family wealth from the seed money worth Bt370 million given to her by Pojaman as a birthday gift.

She categorically denied acting as a nominee for Thaksin and Pojaman in the sale of her family's controlling stakes in Shin Corp to Temasek, the Singapore's investment firm. She said she retained the sale earnings in her bank accounts and that her parents had no involvement in her funds.

"My share of the family's wealth is Bt23.5 billion kept in six bank accounts plus Bt218 million in unit trust and I am the sole owner of my funds," she said.

-- The Nation 2009-09-17

[webfact]

Wasn't that the young lady who had to work at McDonalds?

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Wasn't that the young lady who had to work at McDonalds?

Wish my Mum had given me that for a birthday pressie.

[Plus]

There's little coverage of this case, but as far as I remember, AEC and DSI discovered some papers proving that her daddy had signing power in one of the companies she kept her shares with.

I don't know if there's anything else, and, sadly, there's no one on board right now to quickly refresh the memory and find relevant background articles.

We are all somewhat ignorant in the details of this trial of the century - two billion dollars are about to be confiscated. Has it ever happened anywhere in the world? Certainly not in Thailand.

[noithip]

" When Pinthongta Shinawatra became the richest stockholder in Thailand in 2004, few observers were surprised. Before Thaksin was deposed in a military coup in 2006, his family benefited tremendously from the rampant nepotism during his five-year term as prime minster, with his own children netting millions. Along with her brother Pangthongtae, she made a large profit by buying 329.2 million shares in a Thai communications company for 1 baht each from one of the family’s offshore holding company, and selling them for almost 50 times their value to a Singaporean company. The ensuing transaction netted $464 million, and Pinthongta’s father kept the transaction hidden from Thai tax officials. "

Tearful Pinthongta Shinawatra...Bt23.5 billion kept in six bank accounts plus Bt218 million in unit trust...

I would be in tears too..

[givenall]

Amazing Thailand. The lies keep coming

[scorecard]

[

Amazing Thailand. The lies keep coming

Wonder how they all feel now about their father?

[TAWP]

She was probably crying as she was imagining herself having to work another stint at McDonald's would she lose that big chunk of her dads money, as punishment. And this time, it might have to be for two full days. And no press to smile to.

[LaoPo]

We are all somewhat ignorant in the details of this trial of the century - two billion dollars are about to be confiscated. Has it ever happened anywhere in the world? Certainly not in Thailand.

..."Trial of the century"....too much honor Plus, apart from the fact that we've only passed 8,9 % of the 21st century and 91,1% to go.

It's about a mere 2 Billion dollars. Bernie Madoff would laugh about that, stealing $ 65 Billion

As you know better than anybody else...TiT and it wouldn't surprise me that the $ 2 Billion-situation will look entirely different in 5-10 years from now.

But, in Thailand NOTHING is for granted except one thing: everybody is going to die...everybody.

LaoPo

[rixalex]

But, in Thailand NOTHING is for granted except one thing: everybody is going to die...everybody.

Isn't the expression "there's only two things in life you can be certain of - death and taxes".

Thaksin might be learning that the hard way.

[mrtoad]

But, in Thailand NOTHING is for granted except one thing: everybody is going to die...everybody.

LaoPo

.....and tourists on Jet Skis will continue to get fleeced.

[LaoPo]

But, in Thailand NOTHING is for granted except one thing: everybody is going to die...everybody.

Isn't the expression "there's only two things in life you can be certain of - death and taxes".

Thaksin might be learning that the hard way.

Don't we all ?

LaoPo

[rucus7]

But, in Thailand NOTHING is for granted except one thing: everybody is going to die...everybody.

Isn't the expression "there's only two things in life you can be certain of - death and taxes".

Thaksin might be learning that the hard way.

Don't we all ?

LaoPo

Actually, I have to agree with Elvis Presley's statement on the two certainties of life, "that there will always be hookers and Coup de Ville's "

[givenall]

But, in Thailand NOTHING is for granted except one thing: everybody is going to die...everybody.

Isn't the expression "there's only two things in life you can be certain of - death and taxes".

Thaksin might be learning that the hard way.

If Thaksin would work things out in the beginning he would be better off and probably living in Thailand as a free man. But is too much to ask, it is arrogant and also not wanting to lose face.

Of well keep face and lose money

[animatic]

Oh no that's lose the money and MUCH more face.

Losing the money is just a way of keeping count of the face lost.

And the revenge to be extracted if power is ever re-attained.

On lil missy's case,

well what else WOULD she say?

Talk all you kids want it's the paper trail that will slip them up,

just lake the last THREE cases.

Dad's got one conviction so far... And no moral convictions at all...

Mom's got a conviction, and this case here.

A #1 son and the ingenue each have lost one with fines,

and this one is a full tilt family affair.

Uncles cousins maids brothers in law.. the whole clan gets to share.

They are dozens of books to be written on this dog and pony show dejour.

Edited September 17, 2009 by animatic

[webfact]

BT76-BILLON UNUSAL WEALTH CHARGE

Pinthongta tells court she made money moves

By Kesinee Taengkhio

The Nation

Published on September 18, 2009

Pinthongta tells court she made money moves

Tearful Pinthongta Shinawatra hugged her mother Pojaman for consolation yesterday and heaved a sigh of relief after stepping down from the witness stand. She had just testified in the case involving the alleged "unusual wealth" of her father, ex-premier Thaksin.

In her testimony at the Supreme Court, Pinthongta insisted she built up her share of the Bt76 billion in family wealth from seed money worth Bt370 million given to her by Pojaman as a birthday gift.

She categorically denied acting as a nominee for Thaksin and Pojaman in the sale of her family's controlling stakes in Shin Corp to Temasek, the Singapore state investment firm. She said she retained the sale earnings in her bank accounts and that her parents had no involvement with her funds.

"My share of the family's wealth is Bt23.5 billion kept in six bank accounts plus Bt218 million in unit trusts and I am the sole owner of my funds," she said.

She appeared cheerful upon arriving at the court accompanied by her mother and her older brother Panthongtae.

The prosecution contends the seized assets worth Bt76 billion are Thaksin's ill-gotten gains stashed in the names of 22 family members and associates, including Pinthongta.

In her rebuttal, Pinthongta said she had full control over her wealth and that Thaksin had no influence over her business decisions.

She recounted how she had accumulated her wealth. With the seed money from her mother in 2002, she first bought Shin shares from Panthongtae in two separate transactions.

She said she was not liable to pay income tax because of an exemption for a parental gift. She also admitted Panthongtae granted a concession as an older brother to sell her shares at par value.

She said like other family members, she never attended shareholders' meetings since her family had designated an advisory team to represent their business interests.

In explaining why she and her brother sold Shin shares to Temasek via an investment firm Ample Rich, she said the transaction paved the way for the funds to be paid and retained in Thailand instead of Singapore.

Ample Rich, which acted as a holding firm to manage the shares held by her family, also managed her investments made from dividend payments between 2003 and 2005.

She said the Assets Examination Company had made a wrongful decision to seek the seizure of her assets. On the one hand the AEC was demanding that she pay Bt5 billion in tax liabilities incurred from her transactions. On the other, it was saying she was a Thaksin nominee with no real control over the shares.

She insisted she was responsible for providing the seed money to buy the Manchester City Football Club. She said she wanted her father to have something to occupy his time while living in exile.

The proceeds from the subsequent sale of the football club were reinvested in a diamond mine in Africa, she said.

Neither she nor her family stashed their wealth abroad as alleged, she said. The property she owns in London is an apartment valued around Bt60 million to Bt70 million, she said.

Her mother owns a London home worth about Bt200 million, she added.

She said she was willing to cooperate with the AEC investigation into her family's wealth, but changed her mind after a seven-hour session without a lawyer in which AEC members tried to coerce her to answer the way they wanted.

She refused to give a statement during the investigation and claimed a right to testify in court.

Faced with a barrage of questions during the prosecution's cross examination, she appeared under stress and close to bursting into tears.

After she was excused from the witness stand, she quickly walked to her mother.

Before leaving the courtroom, Pojaman said she and her children felt relief after giving the court their side of the story.

"I am relieved and expect justice to prevail," she said, referring to her testimony on Wednesday and her daughter's statement.

-- The Nation 2009/09/18

[cruiser2]

Wasn't that the young lady who had to work at McDonalds?

No, that was her younger sister, Paethongtharn, that had the 2 day stint at McDonalds for media photo opportunities with her Dad.

Pinthongta was the one listed as the richest stockholder on the SET in 2004 at the age of 22. She repeated the position for 2005 with 19 Billion Baht.

That year, her brother, Panthongthae, was fourth with 12 Billion Baht and her McDonald's sister, Paethongtharn, as a teenager, had 1 Billion Baht.

[Plus]

I checked on Wiki, one thing they said is that Madoff's fraud size will never be known exactly.

Apart from that 65bil there's another estimate of between 10 and 17.

I called Thaksin's trial of the century precisely because it's only the beginning and the prize is up for grabs.

In Thailand it certainly is. Thaksin without his assets will be a completely different proposition when it comes to financing red movement.

Apart from Madoff, anyone else got hit for 2 bil?

[Gonzo the Face]

After reading the full article in "The Nation Fishwrap", and knowing how honest and truthfully they report stories, I can only say...

This girl is definitely a Chip off the ole Blockhead.

Lies , lies, and more lies.....

Nothing but more Bull *hit.

Working the prearranged loop holes

*Par Value

*Family Gift from Mom ..... how many billion baht gift ???

*Sole owner of account

On and on ....

This guy needs to be stopped from having these video telecasts.

This is just to stir up and keep the red shirts going, with trying to overthrow the govt or worse.

Freedom of speech, YES. But this man in a convicted felon, and a bail jumper and a fugitive. Time to stop all the bull c*ap and get this jerk in , one way or the other....

Then maybe peace can come to Thailand and we all can get on living a normal life.

PS 1 hamburger....... hey u wan flies wit dat

Edited September 18, 2009 by Gonzo the Face

[Plus]

What's wrong with the "Nation Fishwrap" in this case? What have they misreported now?

I don't think that line matches the rest of your post, why did you sneak it in?

[hammered]

Well she werent gonna say yeah i was just some kinda proxy girl. Now it is up to the judegs to see if they take her word after also factoring in any other evidence.

I note that according to the neutral asia foundation in depth survey of Thai people the courts come out top in terms of integrity and politcal neutrality which is interesting consdiering the constant criticism they have taken from one side. Maybe their finding against a whole plethora of politcos from different sides has helped them maintian this imaghe with the wider public. Anyway that is a good thing if court cases are going to be difficult in polical terms.

[Gonzo the Face]

What's wrong with the "Nation Fishwrap" in this case? What have they misreported now?

I don't think that line matches the rest of your post, why did you sneak it in?

You are right..... but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, prints like the Nation, ..... its still the Nation...... read another article...... you'll find out what I am saying.

[khaowong1]

what does everyone expect Pojaman to say, "hel_l yes, we bilked all you suckers, so stuff it" "Now were rich and your not"....

[Cayenne]

"Faced with a barrage of questions during the prosecution's cross examination, she appeared under stress and close to bursting into tears."

Translation: the prosecutors were asking questions not in her prepared Q&A script.

[sibeymai]

I had heard that early on in his business career that he received some lucrative contracts for computers from the police. Can anybody verify this information.

It's in her testimony - establishment of Shinawatra computers. Her father was the police general and the company got a contract supplying all police stations in Thailand.

Should that not read "a" police general? I think there are nearly 400 of them?

Wasn't just "a" police general. Was "the" police general. Shin Computer was an IBM dealer at the time so could have rightly won the tender to computerise the Police Dept with that kind of backing and expertise. Whether it did or not is another question.

However, it doesn't take much imagination to consider that with father-in-law as the head of the police and foreknowledge of a coming tender worth millions that there might have been discussion around the family dinner table something like:

"Son, I see a lot of future in this computer thing. Suggest you get yourself a dealership with a reputable company".

"Oh yes sir. That sounds like a good idea. By the way, has that computer contract for the Police Dept. been awarded yet."

"Not yet son. Seems none of the current bidders are qualified. But we're sure one will come along soon."

Edited September 20, 2009 by sibeymai

[lingyaiyai]

"Shinawatra Wealth Not Ill-gotten, Claims Pojaman"

Bears no longer paying visits to the woods.

[Arkady]

The longest confession is from Snoh Thienthong, who truly qualifies as an "insider"....

"He [Thaksin] placed one of his own people in every ministry. These people did not need to have a powerful post, but everybody knew who they were ... If any minister wanted to propose a project using the central budget, the minister would first have to clear it with 'his person' first. Many ministers were approached by 'his person' saying, 'The budget is coming. You can have five or six billion, but 10 per cent must go to the party ... Any minister who would not do this, could not remain."

Snoh then explained how the system worked.

"For this 10 per cent policy, the minister would have to pad the budget proposed for approval to include the 10 per cent that would go to the party. Then once it was agreed with 'his person' via Khunying, the matter could be sent to his trusted 'permanent political representative', who used to be his company employee. To date nobody knows how much this 10 per cent amounts to. Probably need to ask Khunying."

Snoh claims to have asked Pojaman what she needed so many billions for, and got this answer: "In politics you have to hand out money. It has to be considered a business." Snoh asked her what would happen if things blew up, and she replied, "If Thaksin falls, the Thai Rak Thai Party will have to stay in power for at least two more terms for safety."

Originally from the Nation, but this is the first google hit:

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showCon...90&id2=3912

You touch on a very interesting point, Plus. Credible allegations have surfaced over the years from other sources in addition to Snoh that about 10% of the total central budget was misappropriated during the years he was in office and used for personal expenses, largely the financing of TRT, so that the salaries of party workers and costs of rallies were actually paid by the state. There are no charges relating to these allegations as yet which, if true, would have involved a large number of bureaucrats as well as politicians, including some very senior and influential ones. In another context there would probably be a whistle blower coming forward from the bureaucracy with a promise of immunity from prosecution and a stash of documents detailing what could have beenThaksin's largest and most disgraceful theft but here there is just a wall of clubby silence. Perhaps the Corrections Department does not have enough space to accommodate all of these puuyai and this issue has been left aside for very practical reaons.

Without checking up I don't think Potjaman's father was ever national police chief but he was already a police big shot when Thaksin married her and he, himself, came from one of the wealthiest Chinese families in Chiang Mai, despite his various claims of being a Mon from a poor background. Shinawatra Computer's contracts with the police were to supply mainframes and certainly didn't involve computerising every police station in Thailand. Most police stations didn't have any computers until long after that. People who have done business with the police claim that virtually every conceivable type of contract for any type of product or service involves kickbacks. I don't think much imagination is required to conclude what kind of deal was struck between Thaksin and the police who would of course be happier to deal with "an insider". Thaksin was moonlighting at the time as he was still a police captain (his elevation from captain to pol lt col only came years later when he was PM). It is also not hard to imagine how he obtained the monopolistic mobile phone concession or how he secured the rights for Thaicom from the 1992 junta (he seems to have forgotten how cozy he was with those coup makers).

Although bribery and corruption seems to have been a way of life for Thaksin and his wife from an early age, many of the most obvious and damning examples cannot be used as the unwritten rule has to be that only Thaksin and his family must take the hit in a surgical strike without collateral damage. That seems to make the prosecution's job rather difficult. They have to prove that Thaksin used government policy to enhance the value of his shares that had been transferred to nominees who had no control over the assets. Technically it will be virtually impossible to prove what element of share price appreciation was due to such a factor and what was due to other factors but perhaps short cuts are available in the Thai context to compensate for other difficulties.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Arkady

[blakegeee]

Does anybody know why she is not in jail? I thought she was sentenced a few months ago but obviously returned to Thailand since.

I am not saying I am surprised that shes not in jail, but what is the "excuse".