Excise Tax.. Phuket Gazette

[LivinLOS]

Its posted in the 'additional tax' thread but its a bit buried and this is probably worth making more noise about.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/dailynews/ind...2&display=1

Phuket Excise Office closes big bike loophole

PHUKET: The Phuket Excise Office says big bike owners have until September 25 to pay excise on motorcycles assembled from parts – or face hefty fines.

Motorcycles subject to prohibitive tariffs have long been assembled from parts by ‘grey market’ operators in order to avoid paying the tax.

Now excise officials insist the owners of such vehicles – not the builders – must pay anyway.

Surat Saengnet, of the Phuket Provincial Excise Office, announced in a meeting at Phuket Provincial Hall that “anyone who owns such vehicles – which are mostly big bikes such as Harley Davidsons – will have to pay an excise of 3.3 percent of the vehicle price.”

Owners who pay up before the deadline will not be fined.

Those who fail to do so and get caught will be “fined from two to ten times the tax amount,” Mr Surat said.

Another official at the Excise Office explained that “owners must provide documents showing their vehicles’ engine and body numbers, as well as invoices and receipts for parts.

“These documents are sent to the Excise Office’s Value Pricing division, where a figure for the value of a vehicle is established. The tax rate is set from that,” she said.

The official said the rate charged is “the same as that for new bikes. Also new motorbikes imported from abroad must pay excise tax.”

“Excise tax has been collected since 1997,” said Surat, “but we concentrated on motorcycles in shops. Now we will be much stricter, checking all of them.”

Normally, spare parts imported from abroad are taxed according to the tariff on spare parts – which is significantly less than the rate for completely assembled vehicles.

Parts assembled into completed four-stroke motorcycles are subject to excise tax of 3 percent; two-strokes pay 5 percent.

Over the last three months, some 400 persons have been caught with motorcycles that evaded the excise.

Nicky’s Handle Bar and big bike shop owner Somneuk ‘Nicky’ Phonkaew told the Gazette, “I have just one such bike and it has already been taxed. If you follow the rules, you don’t have any hassles.”

Wanlop Inthanop of the Phuket Land Transport Office said, “Parts assembled into motorcycles must be examined by the Thai Industrial Standards Institute of the Ministry of Industry in Bangkok. They receive certification only if they meet the institute’s standards.”

After passing that hurdle, owners must pay the excise tax – and only then will the Land Transport Office allow them to register their vehicles.

[katabeachbum]

Not such a bad deal.

Seems like any odd bigbike without a good page 18, can pay only 3,3% excicetax and get clean. If they set the value at 200k thats 6600 baht. To get a clean bigbike.

[LivinLOS]

Not such a bad deal.

Seems like any odd bigbike without a good page 18, can pay only 3,3% excicetax and get clean. If they set the value at 200k thats 6600 baht. To get a clean bigbike.

I think its 3.3 % of the value they assess (the new price)..

For sure the prices I am hearing were 30 plus 1000 for a harley, 12 - 15 for a old beaten 400 etc etc..

A buddy got his bike out the impound for an under the table 6000 and got no tax info put in the book.. Just a pure ransom on the bike.

[katabeachbum]

Not such a bad deal.

Seems like any odd bigbike without a good page 18, can pay only 3,3% excicetax and get clean. If they set the value at 200k thats 6600 baht. To get a clean bigbike.

I think its 3.3 % of the value they assess (the new price)..

For sure the prices I am hearing were 30 plus 1000 for a harley, 12 - 15 for a old beaten 400 etc etc..

A buddy got his bike out the impound for an under the table 6000 and got no tax info put in the book.. Just a pure ransom on the bike.

Its supposed to be on the value of imported parts or marketvalue of bike. Since the importinvoices I have seen on my bikes (parts) have been extremely low, not even 40k for all TMax parts/frame, I guess they just gestimate

If you get your bike out of inpound and still not clean page 18, its gonna happen again

Beeing pushed by LOS legal bigbike providers, the crackdown on everyone without proper taxes in page 18 will continue

[12DrinkMore]

Sounds like an absolute bargain if it means the bike is then fully legal.

[LivinLOS]

Sounds like an absolute bargain if it means the bike is then fully legal.

Fully legal until they invent some other clause next year you mean ??

And thats just one of the taxes.. Its not like you can take an unregged bike pay that and then get a plate.. Its pay that to get to the next stage which is paying the registration fees / taxes / etc...

I just see it as unfair.. This is a tax someone should have paid years ago, it was totally unenforced, so not they make current owners who had nothing to do with this process, who had a fully legal green book, who are innocent of any games.. And make them pay.

Also interesting is this is determined by the page 18 tax info.. Yet posters have stated that bikes purchased direct through BMW legal legit main dealer.. Didnt have this excise tax in their books !! Its also been proven that some gov offices never bothered to shift this info over between books when a new one was issued, because it was considered unimportant.. so because someone in an office was cutting his workload, owners now have to pay !! I dont see much of a silver lining.

[katabeachbum]

Sounds like an absolute bargain if it means the bike is then fully legal.

Fully legal until they invent some other clause next year you mean ??

And thats just one of the taxes.. Its not like you can take an unregged bike pay that and then get a plate.. Its pay that to get to the next stage which is paying the registration fees / taxes / etc...

I just see it as unfair.. This is a tax someone should have paid years ago, it was totally unenforced, so not they make current owners who had nothing to do with this process, who had a fully legal green book, who are innocent of any games.. And make them pay.

Also interesting is this is determined by the page 18 tax info.. Yet posters have stated that bikes purchased direct through BMW legal legit main dealer.. Didnt have this excise tax in their books !! Its also been proven that some gov offices never bothered to shift this info over between books when a new one was issued, because it was considered unimportant.. so because someone in an office was cutting his workload, owners now have to pay !! I dont see much of a silver lining.

BMW main import bikes with 80% importduty and 35% excise tax +7% vat, as a licensed importer. Not imported parts with low value invoices

[LivinLOS]

Sounds like an absolute bargain if it means the bike is then fully legal.

Fully legal until they invent some other clause next year you mean ??

And thats just one of the taxes.. Its not like you can take an unregged bike pay that and then get a plate.. Its pay that to get to the next stage which is paying the registration fees / taxes / etc...

I just see it as unfair.. This is a tax someone should have paid years ago, it was totally unenforced, so not they make current owners who had nothing to do with this process, who had a fully legal green book, who are innocent of any games.. And make them pay.

Also interesting is this is determined by the page 18 tax info.. Yet posters have stated that bikes purchased direct through BMW legal legit main dealer.. Didnt have this excise tax in their books !! Its also been proven that some gov offices never bothered to shift this info over between books when a new one was issued, because it was considered unimportant.. so because someone in an office was cutting his workload, owners now have to pay !! I dont see much of a silver lining.

BMW main import bikes with 80% importduty and 35% excise tax +7% vat, as a licensed importer. Not imported parts with low value invoices

Sure of course.. Thats exactly what you would expect of a main dealer.

But the fact remains, that the 'enforcement' or 'verification' of this excise tax payment is based on the information on page 18 of the green book.. If theres no information there its 'assumed' it wasnt paid and is due.

Yet posters on here have stated that their bought from the main dealer, BMW supplied, green book has no page 18 tax info either !! So if they have no information on page 18, and the only way the DMV tracks this is page 18 info.. Then how do they define the legit and illegitimate ??

See my point ?? Their system is a mess with more holes than a fishing net.

[thaicbr]

I tell ya. for all the hassle that Phuket land transport give ya . you all would be better of renting a little Thai style room in Say Krabi (1200b a month) and then get all your rego stuff done there. page 18 no problem, modifications no problem etc etc. Shit if ya want you can sublet my spare storage room in Nakhon Pathom. and get pretty NK plates. No hassles here.

[katabeachbum]

Sure of course.. Thats exactly what you would expect of a main dealer.

But the fact remains, that the 'enforcement' or 'verification' of this excise tax payment is based on the information on page 18 of the green book.. If theres no information there its 'assumed' it wasnt paid and is due.

Yet posters on here have stated that their bought from the main dealer, BMW supplied, green book has no page 18 tax info either !! So if they have no information on page 18, and the only way the DMV tracks this is page 18 info.. Then how do they define the legit and illegitimate ??

See my point ?? Their system is a mess with more holes than a fishing net.

Sure system is a mess.

When BMW, and some others, import bikes they only need to test emission etc on the first bike of each model. Next bikes are guaranteed by importer to be identical. Authorised importers, not only by manufactorer but also by LOS authorities. In most countries these importers also have a credit with revenue, allowing them to pay the taxes a week or two after import

As I understand, these bikes by authorised importers never have any page 18 remarks, since they are imported in a clean and tidy way, or at least in an authorised way.

Its all the other bikes imported by "chinatown operators", usually as parts (without ever beeing disassembled) attracting only 3,3% excise tax, needing page 18 info conserning taxes.

Anyway, I m glad I got out of the messy book import bikes in time

Love my LOS made Kwaker Ninja 650R

[LivinLOS]

I tell ya. for all the hassle that Phuket land transport give ya . you all would be better of renting a little Thai style room in Say Krabi (1200b a month) and then get all your rego stuff done there. page 18 no problem, modifications no problem etc etc. Shit if ya want you can sublet my spare storage room in Nakhon Pathom. and get pretty NK plates. No hassles here.

You may joke.. But this is exactly the thing people are doing.. going out of province simply to change registrations.

As you know.. I have modified my bike, I have done it with care to make sure all lights etc are extra bright, good visible indicators, projection bulb systems.. Etc etc. But I doubt they will EVER let me change name on Phuket despite it being fine from a functional point of view.

[LivinLOS]

Sure of course.. Thats exactly what you would expect of a main dealer.

But the fact remains, that the 'enforcement' or 'verification' of this excise tax payment is based on the information on page 18 of the green book.. If theres no information there its 'assumed' it wasnt paid and is due.

Yet posters on here have stated that their bought from the main dealer, BMW supplied, green book has no page 18 tax info either !! So if they have no information on page 18, and the only way the DMV tracks this is page 18 info.. Then how do they define the legit and illegitimate ??

See my point ?? Their system is a mess with more holes than a fishing net.

Sure system is a mess.

When BMW, and some others, import bikes they only need to test emission etc on the first bike of each model. Next bikes are guaranteed by importer to be identical. Authorised importers, not only by manufactorer but also by LOS authorities. In most countries these importers also have a credit with revenue, allowing them to pay the taxes a week or two after import

As I understand, these bikes by authorised importers never have any page 18 remarks, since they are imported in a clean and tidy way, or at least in an authorised way.

Its all the other bikes imported by "chinatown operators", usually as parts (without ever beeing disassembled) attracting only 3,3% excise tax, needing page 18 info conserning taxes.

Anyway, I m glad I got out of the messy book import bikes in time

Love my LOS made Kwaker Ninja 650R

OK but say you have a beemer now.. How does the DMV know if it was a main dealer sale, or a import sale ?? Thats the point its a mess.

Also the china town importers you mention would still be paying the parts import fees.. they just 'maybe' didnt pay the excise or paid an official to forget the excise. Basically they are the ones with the corrupt system, not the current owners of registered road legal machines further down the line.

As much as Thais dislike it, the buck has to stop somewhere.. Someone has to take the blame, and someone has to clearly state 'this is legal' now and ongoing. All this trying to catch past offenders by punishing current owners is a bit of a which hunt.

Agree with you about the Kwaker.. All of this is why Kwakers entry has been a breath of fresh air.. Theres at least a viable option at a fair price.

[katabeachbum]

OK but say you have a beemer now.. How does the DMV know if it was a main dealer sale, or a import sale ?? Thats the point its a mess.

Also the china town importers you mention would still be paying the parts import fees.. they just 'maybe' didnt pay the excise or paid an official to forget the excise. Basically they are the ones with the corrupt system, not the current owners of registered road legal machines further down the line.

As much as Thais dislike it, the buck has to stop somewhere.. Someone has to take the blame, and someone has to clearly state 'this is legal' now and ongoing. All this trying to catch past offenders by punishing current owners is a bit of a which hunt.

Agree with you about the Kwaker.. All of this is why Kwakers entry has been a breath of fresh air.. Theres at least a viable option at a fair price.

Authorised importer vehicles is supposed to have a code on first page/vehicledescription page, I will try to find it by comparing some books

Not only Kwaker has brought fresh air to bikers last couple of years, Yamaha, Triumph, Harley all seem to run clean import with clean books now.

So far only Kwaker has taken advantage of LOS bike tax system by making them here and by this avoiding 115% tax on import. 80% importduty, 35% excise tax on importduty and 7% vat on top of the duty/tax.

[KarenBravo]

Slightly off topic, but, related.

I have several old motorbikes (around 30 years old), one of them has no green book, which means that I can't get a tax disk for it.

I do have a registration plate for it, though.

The insurance company put the reg into the computer and gave me an address. I went to the address, but, the last (official) owner of the motorbike left 13 years ago.

Went to the transport office in town and was basically told that if the motorbike is older than 6 years, it is impossible to get a new, green book.

This now means that I'm open to fines by police at road-blocks, even though I have spent time and money trying to be legal. To give the BiB their due, they fully understand that some of these old bikes don't have books and usually wave me through after I have explained that I did try and get legal.

Pretty proposterous situation.

Edited September 23, 2009 by KarenBravo

[thaicbr]

kARENBRAVO. Personally i would get a Thai speaker to contact the Main Transport office in Bkk 0-2272-5322 and ask the question there. Because it sounds like Phuket make up the rules as they go along. They should have the information in hard copy file.

[KarenBravo]

Thanks for the info, but, I don't think it's going to help.

Without the last owner (MIA) being there, there is no way that they will issue a new book.

What is to stop someone stealing a bike, claiming that the book is lost and the owner missing, then getting a book in their name?

[thaicbr]

Doesnt hurt to ask. Also was the last owner Thai or Farang?

[LivinLOS]

OK but say you have a beemer now.. How does the DMV know if it was a main dealer sale, or a import sale ?? Thats the point its a mess.

Also the china town importers you mention would still be paying the parts import fees.. they just 'maybe' didnt pay the excise or paid an official to forget the excise. Basically they are the ones with the corrupt system, not the current owners of registered road legal machines further down the line.

As much as Thais dislike it, the buck has to stop somewhere.. Someone has to take the blame, and someone has to clearly state 'this is legal' now and ongoing. All this trying to catch past offenders by punishing current owners is a bit of a which hunt.

Agree with you about the Kwaker.. All of this is why Kwakers entry has been a breath of fresh air.. Theres at least a viable option at a fair price.

Authorised importer vehicles is supposed to have a code on first page/vehicledescription page, I will try to find it by comparing some books

Not only Kwaker has brought fresh air to bikers last couple of years, Yamaha, Triumph, Harley all seem to run clean import with clean books now.

So far only Kwaker has taken advantage of LOS bike tax system by making them here and by this avoiding 115% tax on import. 80% importduty, 35% excise tax on importduty and 7% vat on top of the duty/tax.

Yes it was the 'at a fair price' part that Kwaker have done.. Shaken up the whole market.

I would love to know about that authorised importer code info.. The whole system is so opaque and its bits of info like that which are gold.. Ask 5 Thais what different stuff in books say and you get 5 wildly different answers.

[LivinLOS]

Slightly off topic, but, related.

I have several old motorbikes (around 30 years old), one of them has no green book, which means that I can't get a tax disk for it.

I do have a registration plate for it, though.

The insurance company put the reg into the computer and gave me an address. I went to the address, but, the last (official) owner of the motorbike left 13 years ago.

Went to the transport office in town and was basically told that if the motorbike is older than 6 years, it is impossible to get a new, green book.

This now means that I'm open to fines by police at road-blocks, even though I have spent time and money trying to be legal. To give the BiB their due, they fully understand that some of these old bikes don't have books and usually wave me through after I have explained that I did try and get legal.

Pretty proposterous situation.

My mate has 2 bikes that both had books but both books were stuck in other peoples names.. Due to work and being out the country both bikes stopped being ridden and road worth and taxes expired. Books got lost.. The whole thing got messy.

Hes being told he cannot get replacements as the tax was expired for 3 years.. After that it needs a new plate.. And no books means this whole excise tax is being charged again to him !! So I think neither bike will ever be legally on the road again. Despite them both being essentially 'legal' to start with.

[BigBikeBKK]

My mate has 2 bikes that both had books but both books were stuck in other peoples names.. Due to work and being out the country both bikes stopped being ridden and road worth and taxes expired. Books got lost.. The whole thing got messy.

How the heck does someone LOSE two green books?! Something fishy there...

[KarenBravo]

How the heck does someone LOSE two green books?! Something fishy there...

Never moved house?

[thaicbr]

How the heck does someone LOSE two green books?! Something fishy there...

Never moved house?

Jeeez. I might lose.......say a pair of socks or boxers. BUT i certainly would NOT lose something like a green book.

[katabeachbum]

Ask 5 Thais what different stuff in books say and you get 5 wildly different answers.

Really?? Ask 5 locals for direction and get 5 directions Life in Paradise

[LivinLOS]

My mate has 2 bikes that both had books but both books were stuck in other peoples names.. Due to work and being out the country both bikes stopped being ridden and road worth and taxes expired. Books got lost.. The whole thing got messy.

How the heck does someone LOSE two green books?! Something fishy there...

Insane ex wife..

[mssabai]

Update on the excise tax. Yesterday my boyfriend went to the transport office to enquire about what would happen if we paid the excess tax after the 25th Sept cut off date. The boss was out of the office, but he was told by the clerks that he would have to pay an additional fine and he is going today to find out what that would be. This is assuming the bike isn't ridden. If he was caught riding the bike without the excess tax the bike would be impounded.

As we have just bought the bike, we want to wait till next month to pay the tax. He is going back today to speak to the boss to see if he will make a note of this for us to avoid a fine, based on the fact we have just bought the bike. If not we have the added advantage of the old owner being a local copper, who has said we can leave the bike in his name, he will pay the tax for us next month and will be able to get out of paying an excess fine. However the Transport Offices official line was - pay by the 25th or pay extra. I live in Trang where I am sure things are much easier than Phuket, but still the message was pretty firm.

[thaicbr]

"who has said we can leave the bike in his name"

So does the bike have a green book then? If so there is no 'tax' to pay just the transfer fee's. If you are talking about road tax (the disc on the bike) then thats 100b.

Also get the bike transferred to Trang much easier.

[LivinLOS]

Have been in comms with PG editor and hes going to try to get some points / clarifications firmly answered and put into print via the issues and answers thing they offer...

Will obviously post if I hear anything.

[mssabai]

Thaicbr - bike is invoice not book, but as far as I was aware you still have an owners name on the invoice papers. Might have misunderstood though!

Second update - my boyfriend went to speak to the transport office again yesterday and they said that the tax has to be paid by 3pm today. If we were to pay it after this date we would be looking instead to pay around 60,000 in fines (I presume) even if we were not riding the bike. They said it would be police coming from Bangkok to enforce it so there was no possibility of postponing the payment and that they didn't really have any control over it. So we are paying it today, around 18,000 I think.

[KhunAussie52]

Thaicbr - bike is invoice not book, but as far as I was aware you still have an owners name on the invoice papers. Might have misunderstood though!

Second update - my boyfriend went to speak to the transport office again yesterday and they said that the tax has to be paid by 3pm today. If we were to pay it after this date we would be looking instead to pay around 60,000 in fines (I presume) even if we were not riding the bike. They said it would be police coming from Bangkok to enforce it so there was no possibility of postponing the payment and that they didn't really have any control over it. So we are paying it today, around 18,000 I think.

What make of bike and engine size?........will have to find out excise on Vulcan 400...98 classic!

[LivinLOS]

Thaicbr - bike is invoice not book, but as far as I was aware you still have an owners name on the invoice papers. Might have misunderstood though!

Second update - my boyfriend went to speak to the transport office again yesterday and they said that the tax has to be paid by 3pm today. If we were to pay it after this date we would be looking instead to pay around 60,000 in fines (I presume) even if we were not riding the bike. They said it would be police coming from Bangkok to enforce it so there was no possibility of postponing the payment and that they didn't really have any control over it. So we are paying it today, around 18,000 I think.

I dont see how this tax could effect bikes not on the road..

To get a plate and book yes.. But think of all the dirtbikes of unknown age.. Those are surely not going to be due or proven to be within the 97 import period.