Clear Of Debt Letter For Condo Transfer

[wasaskater]

Hello,

I bought a condo back in June 2, 2009...and did all the paperwork...including the Clear of Debt letter. The transfer went fine...except the previous owner's husband took the stereo system while we and his wife were at the Land & House...even though they said everything stayed.

I was just notified that we owe for the home owner's fee...(June 1, 2009 - May 31, 2010). The previous owners told us that the Home Owner's fee had been paid a year in advance...thats why we agreed to pay all the closing costs.

Since she provided a clear of debit letter... we assumed that it had been paid.

My question is do I have to pay the 10+ K? I know it is not that much to some...but for me and with only 7 days notice...it is tight for me! Who is responsible...do I need to talk to the previous owners(Japanese/Thai) or is the condo responsible?

[pkrv]

Hello,

I bought a condo back in June 2, 2009...and did all the paperwork...including the Clear of Debt letter. The transfer went fine...except the previous owner's husband took the stereo system while we and his wife were at the Land & House...even though they said everything stayed.

I was just notified that we owe for the home owner's fee...(June 1, 2009 - May 31, 2010). The previous owners told us that the Home Owner's fee had been paid a year in advance...thats why we agreed to pay all the closing costs.

Since she provided a clear of debit letter... we assumed that it had been paid.

My question is do I have to pay the 10+ K? I know it is not that much to some...but for me and with only 7 days notice...it is tight for me! Who is responsible...do I need to talk to the previous owners(Japanese/Thai) or is the condo responsible?

Err what is a clear of debt letter?

You do have a freehold - blue - house book don't you?

You do have a chanoot (god I see this spelled differently every time) the big brown piece of paper?

This is in your name, isn't it?

Edited September 25, 2009 by pkrv

[wasaskater]

yes I have a blue book...I had to go to city hall to get it...I got the deed at land and house. The clear of debit letter according to our condo must be requested 7 days prior to transfer...it is good 7 days after it is issued...to prevent people from transfering their condo without paying there hoa, electric, and water. It did not work in this case since the hoa expired on the 1st of June...and we purchased on the 2nd of june!

[pkrv]

This is always tricky stuff - I assume you are somehow Thai based? Otherwise you needed to transfer currency from outside of Thailand for a condo purchase. You seem to imply you did not.

[wasaskater]

I all ready bought the condo...the transfer was made...I paid for it...but I have just recieved notice(Sept.) from the condominium that we as the new owners owe HOA. The previous owners told us that they paid the HOA until June 2010. (Which was why we paid all the transfer fees) According to the condo...the hoa expired on June 1st. We purchased on the 2nd of June. I was provided a clear of debit letter good until June 3rd 2009...so how could we owe HOA. Could the condo maybe pocketed the money?

[trajan]

the "debt-free" letter issued by the condo juristic person manager only confirms the absence of debts up to the date of transfer of the condo title deed......it does not usually confirm that the condo common fees were paid a year in advance....what is the exact wording of your particular letter? does it actually say the common area fees were confirmed as paid thru May 2010? (I suspect not as that is not called for in a debt free letter for the closing)....

if you wanted to check/confirm whether the old owner actually paid the common area fees a year in advance, you could have checked with the condo manager (before transferring the title deed and paying all the transfer fees)....but that is hindsight now....

condos usually give you some leeway to pay, so I dont think the 7 day deadline is that hard (before interest accrues)....[if you can still locate the old owners and there is evidence that they agreed to pay the common area fees thru May 2010 and they didnt, then I would look to them]

(re the stereo, I had a similar situation but the other way around...I sold a condo of mine (with no furniture or appliances included) on Saladaeng but left the very large TV in the living room as a gift to the young Thai newlywed couple who bought the condo....I told them (thru the broker) when they closed at the Land Office and they were thrilled...)

Edited September 25, 2009 by trajan

[wasaskater]

the "debt-free" letter issued by the condo juristic person manager only confirms the absence of debts up to the date of transfer of the condo title deed......it does not confirm that the condo common fees were paid a year in advance....

if you wanted to check/confirm whether the old owner paid the common area fees a year in advance, you could have checked with the condo manager (before transferring the title deed and paying all the transfer fees)....but that is hindsight now....

condos usually give you some leeway to pay, so I dont think the 7 day deadline is that hard (before interest accrues)....

(re the stereo, I had a similar situation but the other way around...I sold a condo of mine on Saladaeng and left the very large TV in the living room as a gift to the young Thai newlywed couple who bought the condo....I told them (thru the broker) when they closed at the Land Office and they were thrilled...)

The sad thing is I did ask the juristic person manager and he said he could not release the information(privacy of the Condo Owners).

That was very nice of you...I hope they got it...and not the broker! It seems quite common here for the previous owner/broker to clean out here...and the security doesn't do anything to stop it.

I know the condo owns quite a few units...and I almost wonder if they have to pay HOA.

If they didn't pay for a year and lied to me no problem...But I know that when a friend of mine sold their unit earlier this year...they would not let her pay by the month...they had to pay the whole year. They told her that she could ask the buyers to the rest. Now we can pay by the month..or so we have been told. So I guess I feel like the condo was paid at least a months worth.

The thing is that it was not debt free...since the HOA was due on 1 of june and we transfered on the 2 of june. If they had told me(JPM) when the hoa was due...I would not be in this situation. Someone clearly lied...I just don't know if it was the JPM or the previous owners.

[trajan]

(a) in that circumstance, it would have been prudent (as a condition of closing) to obtain from the seller, the receipt issued by the CJP confirming payment of the annual fee or at the very least to ask the seller to cause the condo manager to issue a letter to you confirming due payment of the common area fees up to May 31, 2010...

(b ) yes, I confirmed with the buyers that they did get the TV...

(c ) if the developer still owns unsold units, they (the developer) would be obligated to pay the common area fees for those units...

(d) are the common area fees paid (in your condo building) by the year? (not quarterly or monthly)...if so , check the exact wording of the debt free letter...if the invoice for the annual charge was billed to the old owner (as of June 1) and the debt free letter confirmed that it was paid (as of June 2) you may have a compelling argument against the CJP manager ....

Edited September 25, 2009 by trajan

[wasaskater]

(a) in that circumstance, it would have been prudent (as a condition of closing) to obtain from the seller, the receipt issued by the CJP confirming payment of the annual fee or at the very least to ask the seller to cause the condo manager to issue a letter to you confirming due payment of the common area fees up to May 31, 2010...

(b ) yes, I confirmed with the buyers that they did get the TV...

(c ) if the developer still owns unsold units, they (the developer) would be obligated to pay the common area fees for those units...

(d) are the common area fees paid (in your condo building) by the year? (not quarterly or monthly)...if so , check the exact wording of the debt free letter...if the invoice for the annual charge was billed to the old owner (as of June 1) and the debt free letter confirmed that it was paid (as of June 2) you may have a compelling argument against the CJP manager ....

Thank you for all of your help...this has been a definate learn as you go...for me!

a) I thought to ask for an invoice...no good now...we assumed if they recieved a debt free letter...that when it would be sold it would be debt free...opps.

I now put cap locks on the door. You had a good broker!

c) basically the JPM owns units...and also rents out units for others and takes commission(10 - 20 %). he also sells units...3 - 5% commission plus any extra they can add to the price.

d) Supposely we can pay by the month...but we have to pay more...and it is a hassle to pay monthly. The debt free letter only states that the room is debt free...and the letter is good for 7 days from the time it was signed. JPM has basically told me that if the computer says there is no debt on the May 31st...then he writes a letter saying there was no debt to the Land and House. I guess he is blaming the computer.

[trajan]

oh well, we all live and learn...

I would just pay the 10K (and ask for alittle time if that is what is needed)....

(that's Baht right?---wow I wish my bills were so reasonable)

[wasaskater]

oh well, we all live and learn...

I would just pay the 10K (and ask for alittle time if that is what is needed)....

(that's Baht right?---wow I wish my bills were so reasonable)

LOL...Would you like to pay mine too? Yes it is Thai Baht.

I seriously haven't learned anything from this...except that maybe Thai people are always looking for a way to scam you...instead of trying to find honest money.

I guess I am most upset that they make everyone else pay for a full year or they can not sell...but this lady and husband somehow got off without paying at all...or the office pocketed the money.

They refuse to give anytime...if no money...they will cut off water and electric...and I will have to pay to have them reinstalled...I am currently renovating those rooms...and had to put down 20K...as a security deposit. The condo charges 200 baht a day when you use outside contrators. If you use in house you don't have to pay. No deposit either(but they charge double what I was quoted). They have made at least 10 K off one of my rooms(People signed in to work on my room...but went to someonelse's) and I know of 3 other people who have work being down on their rooms right now too. Sorry off topic.

[JohnC]

As in all cases it pays to get a good lawyer to handle any purchase/sale, not trying to be wise after the event and you have my sympathy. I used a lawyer when I bought my property and boy was I glad I did! turned out the owner was in UK and the next door neighbour in the village had signed the paperwork on their behalf! Not legally binding but luckily the lawyer had checked this out, plus I got a "free of debt letter" plus a list of all fees that were paid up to the next financial year and the lawyer checked that as well.

All in all took a couple of weeks which did not please the agents who wanted me to pay 100% in 24 hours! My lawyer summoned them to her office and proceeded to tell them how it would be handled! The only down side to all this was the seller who had to struggle for six months to get his money out of the agent!!

[Asianrider]

you would have avoided any confusion if the transfer had been done on 31st May 2009

[trajan]

I seriously haven't learned anything from this...except that maybe Thai people are always looking for a way to scam you...instead of trying to find honest money.

with due respect, one thing to learn is to get receipts on claimed payments....that is the whole reason for closings....we all trust everyone, but cut-the-cards anyway right? .....do not rely on verbal promises or representations in a closing.... (that lesson applies regardless of nationality of the parties)....