Votebuying's Dying, But Not In Thailand

[webfact]

Votebuying's dying, but not in Thailand

Thailand is one of the few countries where votebuying is still widespread, Election Commission chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said Monday.

Apichart was voicing his concern as the country gears towards amending its Constitution - the highest law of the land - in the hope of reforming the political structure, bringing political reconciliation and ensuring free and fair elections.

The EC is organising a seminar of leaders, intellectuals, and politicians to promote local democracy and national reconciliation.

-- The Nation 2009/09/28

[dre1247]

And thats exactly why Thailand is not ready yet for democracy as so many westerners profess. A benevolent dictatorship with a strong leader will do wonders for everyone except for politicians, they will bleed dry, rightfully so. OK guys shoot hahaha

[Xangsamhua]

I posted this on the General Forum, but it's more relevant to this one:

An interesting report from the Asia Foundation at http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/T...portenglish.pdf

The report covers responses from a survey in July 2009 of 1500 people from all regions, conducted through face-to face interviews. Interviewees were questioned about the direction of the country, biggest problems facing Thailand, the Constitution, the electoral system, politicians, police and army, the New Politics proposal and decentralization.

I haven't the time or energy to summarize the main points here. The Preface, Executive Summary and Introduction do that quite well and only take 5-10 minutes to read. The whole document is 127 pages.

A few things I noted:

1. Two thirds of the respondents think the country is headed in the wrong direction due to poor economics. Only 11% cited recent political conflicts as a factor.

2. 62% support the banning of politicians and dissolution of parties. Only 21% think politicians who are convicted of crimes should be pardoned. 57% would revoke the pardon granted to the coup-makers in the 2007 constitution.

3. 68% recognize that political conflict is a normal part of the democratic process and 98% believe that there is more that unites Thai people than divides them.

4. Thais are more politically tolerant than the publics of other Asian countries. 79% would allow meetings of unpopular parties in their area. 92% believe that women should be free to make their own choice in voting - the highest percentage of any country surveyed by the Asia Foundation in the past decade.

5. Only 26% support the reduction of directly elected MPs and their replacement by MPs selected by "functional groups or independent institutions" (i.e. the "New Politics" proposal). 54% would drop the party-list system in favour of single-member electorates.

6. The courts have the highest rate of trust and the police the lowest. 61% believe "most people cannot be trusted". However, they trust their neighbours (74% say they are trustworthy).

7. Most people seem to either condone corruption or accept it as inevitable to get things done (the Executive Summary is not really explicit in this matter).

8. 84% say there is no obligation to vote for an election candidate even if they had accepted money or a gift. However, 58% believe that voters in their area could be influenced by vote-buying activity.

There's quite a bit more, and I've only looked at the Executive Summary, so for political junkies there should be plenty in the report to reflect on.

[mccw]

And thats exactly why Thailand is not ready yet for democracy as so many westerners profess. A benevolent dictatorship with a strong leader will do wonders for everyone except for politicians, they will bleed dry, rightfully so. OK guys shoot hahaha

Obvious counters would be:

- its easy for a benevolent fellow to turn in to a lunatic

- problems occur when ruler is on way to death

- still have massive powerfull interests which need to be pandered to, such as generals, exceptional wealthy etc

- no accountability to deal with corruption, unpopular deeds etc

the list could go on but but i can see the plus side of a benevollent dictator. The only time it would really work though i think is when the man, or woman, has an overwhelming sense of duty to the people of the country, such as that which a monarch or true grassroots socialist may have, otherwise it would be nothing more than a free for all, of corruption and probably much worse things, for thos in power. Can see this all over the place from burma to zimbabwae.

I'd advocate a re-optionaly-addopted-collonialisation where a country could vote to join Britian, france or who ever would take them, and in exchange for preferential trade deals they would be sorted out with a functioning government, independant judicary and police aswell as infustructure and services. No sure anyone would go for it or if any counrty would want the burden, especially now, but in the long run i should think everybody would be better off.

Thailand is not a country that needs any dictators or outside help i dont think.

[Thailand]

From what I have read of the various related topics on this forum it is only the red faction that buys votes, NEVER happens with the other factions and parties- I could be wrong.

[Yoshitaka]

The fact is:

There have been no proof that PT or Democrats buy votes. At least not yet, hence these parties are still alive.

There were proof that TRT & a few others buy votes hence they are axed by the law.

PAD & UDD never buy votes because they are not a political party

[Plus]

I could be wrong.

Yes, you are.

Electoral fraud here goes far beyond simple "vote buying" and there are degrees of cheating, and some of it is still legal, so it's wrong to present the issue in absolute terms - these guys buy votes and those don't.

Also "red faction" is not a political party and it's goal is not to win elections. Two other, non-red parties were dissolved in the latest case, in Dec last year.

[Thailand]

I could be wrong.

Yes, you are.

Electoral fraud here goes far beyond simple "vote buying" and there are degrees of cheating, and some of it is still legal, so it's wrong to present the issue in absolute terms - these guys buy votes and those don't.

Also "red faction" is not a political party and it's goal is not to win elections. Two other, non-red parties were dissolved in the latest case, in Dec last year.

[michaelbutcher]

No idea why this should be 'newsworthy'. It's well known throughout the world and their neighbouring countries, that the Thais sell themselves at the drop of a hat (or ...), why not their vote?

[cdnvic]

No idea why this should be 'newsworthy'. It's well known throughout the world and their neighbouring countries, that the Thais sell themselves at the drop of a hat (or ...), why not their vote?

No need to smear a whole nationality like that. Be a little more selective please.

[hammered]

The Asia Foundation survey linked above should imho be required reading for anyone interested in Thai politcs. That a neutral body finds things which could both please and upset those of both sides in the current power dispute is interesting.

Thanks and Kudos to those linking it and to TV too as many of the admittedly poor English Language Thai poltical websites have seemingly missed this survey or find it doesnt fit their poltical angle.

[nisakiman]

An interesting report from the Asia Foundation at http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/T...portenglish.pdf

Thanks for that link Xangsamhua, it looks very interesting. I've bookmarked it for later perusal.

[dre1247]

And thats exactly why Thailand is not ready yet for democracy as so many westerners profess. A benevolent dictatorship with a strong leader will do wonders for everyone except for politicians, they will bleed dry, rightfully so. OK guys shoot hahaha

Obvious counters would be:

- its easy for a benevolent fellow to turn in to a lunatic

- problems occur when ruler is on way to death

- still have massive powerfull interests which need to be pandered to, such as generals, exceptional wealthy etc

- no accountability to deal with corruption, unpopular deeds etc

the list could go on but but i can see the plus side of a benevollent dictator. The only time it would really work though i think is when the man, or woman, has an overwhelming sense of duty to the people of the country, such as that which a monarch or true grassroots socialist may have, otherwise it would be nothing more than a free for all, of corruption and probably much worse things, for thos in power. Can see this all over the place from burma to zimbabwae.

I'd advocate a re-optionaly-addopted-collonialisation where a country could vote to join Britian, france or who ever would take them, and in exchange for preferential trade deals they would be sorted out with a functioning government, independant judicary and police aswell as infustructure and services. No sure anyone would go for it or if any counrty would want the burden, especially now, but in the long run i should think everybody would be better off.

Thailand is not a country that needs any dictators or outside help i dont think.

MCCW, interesting view. I forgot to say "with a council of (12?) wise men and woman to make it more possible to be right".

[peterallard]

It's been amusing to follow the vote-buying coverage in the Thai news outlets and the discussions here. Living in the U.S. gives a person a view of vote buying on an epic scale - health insurance companies, big pharma, hospital cartels and the rest of the health care providers here have spent more than $500 million (on advertising, lobbying, campaign contributions, junkets, bribes and such) in the last 18 months to defeat health reform. That's more than twice Thailand's GDP. So I am counting the days - I have 15 months to go - when I can finally call LOS home, where corruption might be endemic, but at such comparably insignificant sums that it's almost laughable.

[Thailand]

It's been amusing to follow the vote-buying coverage in the Thai news outlets and the discussions here. Living in the U.S. gives a person a view of vote buying on an epic scale - health insurance companies, big pharma, hospital cartels and the rest of the health care providers here have spent more than $500 million (on advertising, lobbying, campaign contributions, junkets, bribes and such) in the last 18 months to defeat health reform. That's more than twice Thailand's GDP. So I am counting the days - I have 15 months to go - when I can finally call LOS home, where corruption might be endemic, but at such comparably insignificant sums that it's almost laughable.

The difference between "vote buying" and "buying votes"