Why Can't Farangs Pronounce Pattaya?

[Ihopeso]

why do almost all farangs insist on saying pa-THAI-ya when all they have to do is listen to any Thai or read the spelling in Thai. it's พัทยา phat tha yaa.

I think its because they think they sound like veterans here..

Only have to ask a Thai person and they say "Pattaya" exactly as written

[tropo]

Let's just be glad it wasn't named "Aluminium City", otherwise we would have endless yank-brit rants about "proper" pronunciation

The Yanks don't mispronounce it, they pronounce it correctly for the way they spell it.

They just mis-spell it that's all.

And it's definitely easier to say too.

[jobsworth]

It does matter how you pronounce Thai places.

First time I came here I wanted to go to Trat pronounced as in tart but I pronounced it as in rat.

I finished up in Khorat.

The Thais even wrote down the name in Thai to make it clear to me how it should be pronounced.

[tropo]

It does matter how you pronounce Thai places.

First time I came here I wanted to go to Trat pronounced as in tart but I pronounced it as in rat.

I finished up in Khorat.

The Thais even wrote down the name in Thai to make it clear to me how it should be pronounced.

It doesn't matter too much when you live in Pattaya and never visit Thailand.

[gburns57au]

PattayaParent

Nope again. Sara is used for vowels. "R" is a consonant.

Many British based transliterations insert an "r" to indicate a long vowel but this is an oddity unique to British speakers of English.

I remember hearing for the first time a Brit pronouncing the name of my country, Canada, and clearly hearing an "r" sound at the end.

R as in Raw Reua is a consonant usually pronounced as an L

However the walking stick letter at the end is Sara AR.....a Thai vowel of which there are 21 others...

No such animal as Sara "ar".

Yes, Raw Reua is often mispronounced as an "L".

อา How would you pronounce it then?

[Barack]

PattayaParent

Nope again. Sara is used for vowels. "R" is a consonant.

Many British based transliterations insert an "r" to indicate a long vowel but this is an oddity unique to British speakers of English.

I remember hearing for the first time a Brit pronouncing the name of my country, Canada, and clearly hearing an "r" sound at the end.

R as in Raw Reua is a consonant usually pronounced as an L

However the walking stick letter at the end is Sara AR.....a Thai vowel of which there are 21 others...

No such animal as Sara "ar".

Yes, Raw Reua is often mispronounced as an "L".

อา How would you pronounce it then?

aa (long middle tone)

Go to thai-language.com and use the dictionary function. Copy and paste อา.

Play Audio clip #9. If you are pronouncing "ar" or "อา" as in car then you are pronouncing it wrong.

[david96]

Remember "Pattaya" is not an English word. Neither is "Phuket"

How do you pronounce the following words?

Dance

Mackay

Route

Each one of these can be pronounced in a different manner. Standard British English, American Standard English

and the Australian/ NZ pronuciation of English.

Dictionaries: OED, Websters and the OED Australian Ed.

And let us not forget dialect and accent.

Plus the English spoken in Singapore, India, HK etc.

[gburns57au]

No such animal as Sara "ar".

Yes, Raw Reua is often mispronounced as an "L".

อา How would you pronounce it then?

aa (long middle tone)

Go to thai-language.com and use the dictionary function. Copy and paste อา.

Play Audio clip #9. If you are pronouncing "ar" or "อา" as in car then you are pronouncing it wrong.

Po"tar"toes......po"te"toes

Whether I spell it ar or you spell it aa......

How would you spell the word for "Go".....some spell it Bai, some spell it Pai.....I prefer Bpai. the same applies for "Fish"

Many dictionaries use "aa" as the spelling for เเ

Who is right and who is wrong?

[Barack]

No such animal as Sara "ar".

Yes, Raw Reua is often mispronounced as an "L".

อา How would you pronounce it then?

aa (long middle tone)

Go to thai-language.com and use the dictionary function. Copy and paste อา.

Play Audio clip #9. If you are pronouncing "ar" or "อา" as in car then you are pronouncing it wrong.

Po"tar"toes......po"te"toes

Whether I spell it ar or you spell it aa......

How would you spell the word for "Go".....some spell it Bai, some spell it Pai.....I prefer Bpai. the same applies for "Fish"

Many dictionaries use "aa" as the spelling for เเ

Who is right and who is wrong?

Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. How we spell or transliterate letters and words is not that important as long we understand the system being used and be consistent. If you pronounce "aa" for "ar" and not pronounce the hard "r" then a Thai will understand. Intuitively as American with no regional accent I would pronounce the hard "r" which is wrong. The spelling bai, pai, and bpai for the verb "to go" all yield the same pronounciation if the speaker understands the transliteration system being used and does not mix them up. I like you prefer Bpai for "to go". For one, when an English speaker sees the "bp" consonant cluster it makes us stop and think how do we pronounce that? We would later learn the sound lies between a "b" and "p" and is unique to the Thai language.

[SNGLIFE]

Ha! Did anyone else catch the irony/hypocrisy in the post's title: "Farang"?

I too cringe at the mispronunciation of Pattaya; and especially by those who - even though they are politely corrected - insist that their twisted foreign pronunciation is still correct. Ignorant.

Now, as for "Farang", it is pronounced fah-laang. There is no western "r" sound in the Thai language. IMHO, it should be spelled fahlaang. But, whatever...

[ironhut]

If they wanted us to pronounce it right, then someone should have translated it into English correctly. Let's face it, some of these names aren't exactly intuitive. I get it with French and some other language that use alpha-numeric characters where the pronunciation of the letters is just diffferent...but there's no excuse for translating the Thai so poorly to English and then bashing the lot of us for mispronouncing.

[loong]

Ha! Did anyone else catch the irony/hypocrisy in the post's title: "Farang"?

I too cringe at the mispronunciation of Pattaya; and especially by those who - even though they are politely corrected - insist that their twisted foreign pronunciation is still correct. Ignorant.

Now, as for "Farang", it is pronounced fah-laang. There is no western "r" sound in the Thai language. IMHO, it should be spelled fahlaang. But, whatever...

So you think that ร is closer to "L" than "R" ?

ฝรั่ง is not pronounced fahlaang, it's closer to fa-rung, both vowels are short and though many Thais mispronounce the word using the "L" sound it is definitely an "R"

[richm7]

why do almost all farangs insist on saying pa-THAI-ya when all they have to do is listen to any Thai or read the spelling in Thai. it's พัทยา phat tha yaa.

I dunno Sa-teve, why do some people pronounce your name wrong. Probably because they're not English speakers. Jeez, slow day, is it?

[richm7]

I can't believe this f*cking thread. The more I read, the worse it gets. I need a life too. Bl**dy hel_l!

[richm7]

I can't believe this f*cking thread. The more I read, the worse it gets. I need a life too. Bl**dy hel_l!

[richm7]

I can't believe this f*cking thread. The more I read, the worse it gets. I need a life too. Bl**dy hel_l!

[JensenX]

I can't believe this f*cking thread. The more I read, the worse it gets. I need a life too. Bl**dy hel_l!

Has someone got a gun to your head forcing you to read and reply?

Try ignoring this thread next time you open Thaivisa. That'll help us all.

[PattayaParent]

Ha! Did anyone else catch the irony/hypocrisy in the post's title: "Farang"?

I too cringe at the mispronunciation of Pattaya; and especially by those who - even though they are politely corrected - insist that their twisted foreign pronunciation is still correct. Ignorant.

Now, as for "Farang", it is pronounced fah-laang. There is no western "r" sound in the Thai language. IMHO, it should be spelled fahlaang. But, whatever...

So you think that ร is closer to "L" than "R" ?

ฝรั่ง is not pronounced fahlaang, it's closer to fa-rung, both vowels are short and though many Thais mispronounce the word using the "L" sound it is definitely an "R"

Saying an L instead of an R is just a lazy mis-pronunciation commonly heard in the bars, like the English habit of dropping a H or a double T.

[loong]

Saying an L instead of an R is just a lazy mis-pronunciation commonly heard in the bars, like the English habit of dropping a H or a double T.

As a lot of people that work in the bars originate from Isaan, and Isaan people have their origins from Laos, it's understandable. I'm pretty sure that there is no "R" sound in the Lao language.

[junki3korean]

PAH TI YAH!

[moo9]

YAWN......

[oevna]

Saying an L instead of an R is just a lazy mis-pronunciation commonly heard in the bars, like the English habit of dropping a H or a double T.

Not in all cases. It is correct in the Lao language, of which the Isaan language is a dialect (Lao does not have an 'R' sound). Your observation that it is "commonly heard in the bars" is likely a reflection of the strong Northeastern bias among the staff at said bars!

This discussion is rapidly becoming silly. This is an argument over proscriptive vs. descriptive pronunciation rules, which is rarely productive, as the adherents of proscriptive rules will never give way to anything short of what the grammar and phonetics text books teach, while the descriptivists couldn't give a rat's ass what the text books have to say about it.

This reminds me of a great quote:

"It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him."

-- George Bernard Shaw

Of course, this doesn't only apply to Englishmen.

[oevna]

Saying an L instead of an R is just a lazy mis-pronunciation commonly heard in the bars, like the English habit of dropping a H or a double T.

As a lot of people that work in the bars originate from Isaan, and Isaan people have their origins from Laos, it's understandable. I'm pretty sure that there is no "R" sound in the Lao language.

Ah dam_n, you beat me to it (I didn't read the whole thread before responding). Sorry, my bad. You are correct. Lao does not have an 'R' sound, as you said.

[PattayaParent]

Ah dam_n, you beat me to it (I didn't read the whole thread before responding). Sorry, my bad. You are correct. Lao does not have an 'R' sound, as you said.

Last time I looked at the map Pattaya was in Thailand.

So why are we discussing the Lao language?

[jombom]

Saying an L instead of an R is just a lazy mis-pronunciation commonly heard in the bars, like the English habit of dropping a H or a double T.

As a lot of people that work in the bars originate from Isaan, and Isaan people have their origins from Laos, it's understandable. I'm pretty sure that there is no "R" sound in the Lao language.

I find it strange that you think Isaan people do not pronounce R correctly. Perhaps my ears are deceiving me, but placenames like Korat, Surin, and Buriram etc seem to cause no problem.

[oevna]

Saying an L instead of an R is just a lazy mis-pronunciation commonly heard in the bars, like the English habit of dropping a H or a double T.

As a lot of people that work in the bars originate from Isaan, and Isaan people have their origins from Laos, it's understandable. I'm pretty sure that there is no "R" sound in the Lao language.

I find it strange that you think Isaan people do not pronounce R correctly. Perhaps my ears are deceiving me, but placenames like Korat, Surin, and Buriram etc seem to cause no problem.

We are not saying that they pronounce it incorrectly. They pronounce it correctly for their dialect, which is different from the central Thai dialect. Because central Thai is taught in schools across the country, Northeasterners also learn the central dialect and are capable of pronouncing it correctly. However, in normal conversation they tend to use their native dialect, and the pronunciation that goes with it.

[oevna]

Ah dam_n, you beat me to it (I didn't read the whole thread before responding). Sorry, my bad. You are correct. Lao does not have an 'R' sound, as you said.

Last time I looked at the map Pattaya was in Thailand.

So why are we discussing the Lao language?

Thailand borders Laos, and the Northeastern region (Isaan) was once a part of Laos. The Isaan people speak a dialect that is essentially the Lao language, with influences from central Thai (Thai and Lao are actually almost the same language). Many of the people living in Pattaya are from the Northeastern region. So Lao pronunciation is relevant to this 'R' vs. 'L' discussion (but, unfortunately, not relevant to the topic of this thread).

[moo9]

Is there an R in Pattaya?

[rayong09]

I pronounce both Pattaya and Phuket the same..

" Shit hole"

Funny, but try visiting Leysdown on the Isle of Sheppy or Margate, now they really are " Shit holes"

Some words I cant pronounce correctly in Thai, so what, you try asking a Thai to pronounce Fridge you will get back Frith or something like that.

[lalana]

Last time I looked at the map Pattaya was in Thailand.

So why are we discussing the Lao language?

........yeah,fair point. Although go down certain soi's in Pattaya (quite a lot in fact) and all these non-Pattayan girls have a

distinctly Lao-feel with both their language and food preferences,hence the reason for the somewhat deviation in the discussion.

I would hazard a guess that at least 50% of the Bar Girls would respond with the words...."baw ao" instead of "mai ao" if a thoroughly

heinous suggestion such as whether they partake in chocolate-avenue bedroom gymnastics was posed to them .

Can't believe this thread has run so long, and couldn't resist a post along the "why are we discussing the Lao language issue ?" response

as such a huge amount of Lao is spoken every day in Pattaya.

Anyway......... as to any incorrect pronouncements of Pattaya,... to quote Clarke Gable in "Gone with the Wind", well frankly my dear,

I don't give a dam_n!!

A discussion like this is an open minefield, indeed Thai's themselves don't help the foreign holiday-maker with their sometimes

confusing spelling and pronunciation interpretations that confuse the issue.............Suvarnabhumi/Suwannapoom.............

Beer Singha/Beer Sing............Koh Larn/Gaw Larn..........Carrefoo/Carrefour etc.. etc..

Many years ago I said to a Thai person "Koh suay" "Koh suay" repeatedly to strike up a conversation but to no avail. After much

befuddlement I eventually cottoned on that it is more phonetically accurate as a "Gaw" as opposed to "Koh",and my wonder and awe

as to who was the rocket scintist that decided on "Koh" as de. rigeur

Geez.......fascinating stuff this pronunciation discussion . I think I have put myself back to sleep.

But just to defend the Thai's a little bit and slip into my devil's advocate toggles...the "English" language (not referring to Ame)

can be equally and more confusing for the Thai learning our language. Cheque....Knife.....circuit.... etc etc must be

confusingly difficult to master and comprehend.

I know I have deviated somewhat from the original OP question but I feel the arse may have been ripped out of the OP topic and

any deviations are not only acceptable but positively necessary to maintain any degree of sanity and legitimacy for the webboard

Over and out.