Double Charging List

[balo]

As a farang you will most of the time get overcharged for services.

If you do you can choose not to pay or live with it. Most of us just accept it , after all this is Thailand.

What can you do , change your skin colour?

[stevenl]

First of all, all produce on a local market is meant to be consumed by Thais. The local markets do not store 'farang goodies'.

In my experience, on the local markets the prices are the same for whoever buys something.

If you really believe that the standholders on a market will ask all Thai women: 'is this meant for you or for a farang', and will adjust the prices depending on the answer, you must be really paranoid. Try to enjoy life a bit, not worry about it.

First Of All, you seem not to have the capacity to understand my post. Where did I say I asked for 'farang goodies?'. Read my post again: Bell pepper bought by THAI housemaid for THAI bosslady. Numbers two and three, well, I wouldn't count a fish and pineapple as being 'farang goodies'.

Just a matter of reading:

The stall holder asked her if the bell pepper was for a farang or Thai, Thais not being big on bell peppers,

[toptuan]

It always amuses me, so many people shop at 7-11 paying a premium price, when you can buy for less at the Thai owned shop next door.... Cigs & booze often cheaper!... why are people afraid to use the local Thai owned shops?

I think the main reason is that I'm tired of picking up 2-year-old expired goods at the mom & pop stores. It's hard to get all the dust off the expiration dates so you can read them.

[LivinLOS]

I think the main reason is that I'm tired of picking up 2-year-old expired goods at the mom & pop stores. It's hard to get all the dust off the expiration dates so you can read them.

But you get to play "what price is this item today" that wonderful game where the answer is always a surprise.

Handy for buying individual cigarettes or shots of Lao Khao.. Not so handy for anything else.

[stevenl]

Let's try to get back on the topic of double pricing.

IMO we should make a difference between government charges, like e.g. for national park, and private enterprises.

Government charges: a system whereby people who pay taxes and thus already contribute to the government pay less seems reasonable. This system is in place, albeit a bit crude system.

Private enterprises: the charge should be the same for everybody, which is quite often the case but not always. However, that is not so much different from private enterprises back home. As soon as tourists show up, people try to make money out of them. All over the world taxi drivers overcharge tourists, people not speaking the language will be charged more, etc.

That does not make it right, but that does mean that IMO there is not much difference to what happens in Thailand and the rest of the world (at least in that respect). The main difference is that in Thailand you will see it announced, which in most countries would be illegal.

A list of shops/enterprises that apply double pricing: go ahead, compile a list, but the few people that will take that practice into account and avoid businesses on the list will have no effect on the system whatsoever.

[katabeachbum]

I think the main reason is that I'm tired of picking up 2-year-old expired goods at the mom & pop stores. It's hard to get all the dust off the expiration dates so you can read them.

But you get to play "what price is this item today" that wonderful game where the answer is always a surprise.

Handy for buying individual cigarettes or shots of Lao Khao.. Not so handy for anything else.

What price today? Up to you, how much you want to pay? You good man. I prefere 7/eleven

[WOOHOO]

Let's try to get back on the topic of double pricing.

IMO we should make a difference between government charges, like e.g. for national park, and private enterprises.

Government charges: a system whereby people who pay taxes and thus already contribute to the government pay less seems reasonable. This system is in place, albeit a bit crude system.

Private enterprises: the charge should be the same for everybody, which is quite often the case but not always. However, that is not so much different from private enterprises back home. As soon as tourists show up, people try to make money out of them. All over the world taxi drivers overcharge tourists, people not speaking the language will be charged more, etc.

That does not make it right, but that does mean that IMO there is not much difference to what happens in Thailand and the rest of the world (at least in that respect). The main difference is that in Thailand you will see it announced, which in most countries would be illegal.

A list of shops/enterprises that apply double pricing: go ahead, compile a list, but the few people that will take that practice into account and avoid businesses on the list will have no effect on the system whatsoever.

Good post stevenl, summed it up nicely. It does happen everywhere,not just Phuket. It is avoidable if you use your common sense. People with work permits don't normally have a problem and it's just not that big of a deal. So sure have a little moan now and again, make a list if you think it will help, but let's not make it sound like people with masks put guns in our backs, and rob us blind every time we pop to the shop for some fruit and veg. It's just not that bad.

[mikebike]

My avatar does look like the legend himself now you mention it but it's actually a white bloke called Ray Lamontagne.

Huh... thought that was Jerry Garcia when I saw it...

[Phuketscooter]

I do things here as in my home country. Ask at least thre different places when I bye something or wanted help for something. Then I make sure as good as I can do, that I got what I ordered or they use the metarial I have told them I wanted to be used. When I tell a Thai how I expect the endresult should look like, and I got it whithin the limits of +/- 5 cm. I except that. When a Thaifriend said I have the yellow book and live in Phuket Town, I am a local, so I pay 150 Bath to Phi-Phi. Not 450 Bath as others.

The trix is not to be upset about things, but as what is fear.

[bustersizemore]

if you are so concerned and "sick of being ripped off" how about you have a thai friend do all of your shopping for "products and services"? Problem solved.

Siam Phuket Resort on Rawai Beach

My Thai girlfriend reserved a room for a western friend of mine. When I personally visited the hotel to confirm the reservation, the girl at the reception counter said in Thai "this face is a falang face" and the price increased by almost double.

In Phuket town, there are many places that double charge tourists. I've seen restaurants in Phuket town whereas the Thai-language menu is 50% of the prices of the English menu(every item including beverages). I spoke to the owner and he said the English menu food was a better quality. When I asked him if the beer ordered from the English menu was different than beer from the THai menu (same brand but 50% more less), he had no answer.

I reported the incident to TAT and they said such a practice is not illegal and that they would do nothing about it.

I have so many incidents like this that I could easily fill a book. It's not a question of if you'll get cheated in Thailand, it's a question of how much.

TIT

[taffylee]

Don't begrudge the locals getting a better deal, after all they are LOCALS

Do you think the average Thai living in a tourist resort can afford to pay the farang prices? Of course not..

These farang prices are there to make up for the higher rent, tea money etc..

Every government tourist attraction has dual pricing as standard. So pointless moaning to TAT and crazy if anyone even bothers anyway!

[bustersizemore]

Don't begrudge the locals getting a better deal, after all they are LOCALS

Do you think the average Thai living in a tourist resort can afford to pay the farang prices? Of course not..

These farang prices are there to make up for the higher rent, tea money etc..

Every government tourist attraction has dual pricing as standard. So pointless moaning to TAT and crazy if anyone even bothers anyway!

I do not accept paying more because of my ethnicity.

I don't accept the concept of Thais charging falangs more based on the "ability to pay" concept either. I have witnessed a number of relatively-wealthy Thai shopowners cheat poor falang backpackers.

Are you implying that Thais must cheat falangs in order to subsidize their businesses? Any rent or "teamoney" that they decide to pay should be factored in as a normal business expense without the owners looking to recoup those expenses from one segment of their customers.

[F1fanatic]

I think the reason why most of us who live here (as opposed to being on holiday) get v pis..d off at the dual pricing, is cos it wouldn't happen back in our home country. I always remember the story I heard of a farang who'd worked in Thailand for a few years, went back home and worked selling cars. A Thai came to the car sales room and was interested in one of the cars. The man told him the price was double that shown on the car, the Thai pointed out that the price on the windscreen was different, and the farang said "that is the farang price, the Thai price is double".

I've no doubt the story is an urban myth, but there are few farangs living here who wouldn't find this story v funny!

The poster who said that he'd never been over-charged is living in cloud cuckoo land! I used to prefer giving the local markets my money for veg. rather than Tesco. Unfortunately I realised that whilst some market stalls charged less than Tesco, some charged FAR more. Until Tesco's opened in my area it was v hard to realise that I was being ripped off occasionally. NOW, I'm far more aware of the correct price and just walk away from any stall that is way over the top (I just walk away when they give me the cost of the basket of veg I was going to buy). Most of the time though I go to Tesco - I know I will not be ripped off.

As I said before, I'd FAR rather give my money to the locals, but can't be bothered to put up with the rotten few market stall holders.

[taffylee]

Don't begrudge the locals getting a better deal, after all they are LOCALS

Do you think the average Thai living in a tourist resort can afford to pay the farang prices? Of course not..

These farang prices are there to make up for the higher rent, tea money etc..

Every government tourist attraction has dual pricing as standard. So pointless moaning to TAT and crazy if anyone even bothers anyway!

I do not accept paying more because of my ethnicity.

I don't accept the concept of Thais charging falangs more based on the "ability to pay" concept either. I have witnessed a number of relatively-wealthy Thai shopowners cheat poor falang backpackers.

Are you implying that Thais must cheat falangs in order to subsidize their businesses? Any rent or "teamoney" that they decide to pay should be factored in as a normal business expense without the owners looking to recoup those expenses from one segment of their customers.

My Thai Drivers Licence gets me into most attractions at Thai Prices, so I don't think it is wholly an issue of ethnicity.

I'm not saying it is justified in all situations of course, but I don't dissaprove wholeheartedly.

Examples I don't mind are Disco's, Tourist attractions/parks, non-essential activities etc..

You are right there are some dispicable examples of over-charging but if the price is available to you on a menu beforehand (without hidden extras) or you are able to change your mind about the purchase without being commited (ie: put it back on the shelf) then I don't begrudge the Thai's getting it cheaper.

This goes on everywhere, not only Thailand... Maybe in your trade/profession you get certain discounts? Whereas man off the street doesn't.

I can understand how this would upset the low budget traveller though (Backpacker).

[WOOHOO]

My Thai Drivers Licence gets me into most attractions at Thai Prices, so I don't think it is wholly an issue of ethnicity.

I'm not saying it is justified in all situations of course, but I don't dissaprove wholeheartedly.

Examples I don't mind are Disco's, Tourist attractions/parks, non-essential activities etc..

You are right there are some dispicable examples of over-charging but if the price is available to you on a menu beforehand (without hidden extras) or you are able to change your mind about the purchase without being commited (ie: put it back on the shelf) then I don't begrudge the Thai's getting it cheaper.

This goes on everywhere, not only Thailand... Maybe in your trade/profession you get certain discounts? Whereas man off the street doesn't.

I can understand how this would upset the low budget traveller though (Backpacker).

Another good post. Last time this topic was discussed in length on TV, I remember there was almost nobody that wasn't angry and aggressively apposed to it. This time around there has been several people who look at dual pricing rationally and logically and see it for what it is, and not let it get them down.

[wilsongbrown]

Most posters seem to be completely missing the point. We're not talking about flashing your stupid Thai driver's licence at a bloody litter stewn waterfall most non Thais living here will probably visit once or twice in ten years, neither are we talking about some 'lestalaunt' showing 'Thai and 'falang' food' options with the Thai menu being cheaper than that which is poorly translated into English.

We're talking about the fact that there you are, standing on a bloody market stall/mom and pop shop, for chrissakes, and getting charged more than the Thai standing next to you, purely by virtue of the fact that YOU ARE WHITE. Geddit? Some of my Thai friends do, and are embarrassed by it. Jeez ...

Edited October 19, 2009 by wilsongbrown

[stevenl]

Most posters seem to be completely missing the point. We're not talking about flashing your stupid Thai driver's licence at a bloody litter stewn waterfall most non Thais living here will probably visit once or twice in ten years, neither are we talking about some 'lestalaunt' showing 'Thai and 'falang' food' options with the Thai menu being cheaper than that which is poorly translated into English.

We're talking about the fact that there you are, standing on a bloody market stall/mom and pop shop, for chrissakes, and getting charged more than the Thai standing next to you, purely by virtue of the fact that YOU ARE WHITE. Geddit? Some of my Thai friends do, and are embarrassed by it. Jeez ...

It is clear to me, and I think most posters, that is what you are saying.

What I'm saying is: true to a certain extend, but not as much as a lot of posters here are saying.

On the other hand, I am saying that the same thing happens all over the world, where shop owners are trying to make many of people perceived as tourists. Somebody arriving at Kennedy Airport gets a different treatment if he speaks English with an accent and will pay more for a transfer into town, somebody who does not speak Englishi will pay more for something for sale at Penny Lane, somebody trying to buy Stroopwafels at the local market in Amsterdam will pay more if he does not speak Dutch.

These things happen, not all the time, but sometimes, yes. Just as sometimes people looking like tourists here on Phuket will pay more at whatever store.

[katabeachbum]

Just a few years ago Thai Airways had two-pricing to Bkk, one price for thai id card one for farang. Its getting better

[billythehat]

look at dual pricing rationally and logically and see it for what it is

Rational dual pricing.....

[WOOHOO]

we talking about some 'lestalaunt' showing 'Thai and 'falang' food'

You're not alone in this, but why is it so many people feel the need to mimic Thai peoples accents. I'm not being over sensitive here, it's just that to me, it highlights an underlying contempt you have for Thai people and Thailand itself. It seems to me, the number of people that really dislike Thai people is quite high and I have always found that pretty strange. I couldn't even go on holiday somewhere, let alone relocate somewhere, where I was constantly annoyed, suspicious, and frustrated by the local people. I'm not just talking about duel pricing, but right across the forum there seems to be a deep down contempt for Thai people. Maybe this isn't the best country for those people to live in. As for duel pricing, if you have been here for any length of time, and you still haven't worked out how much you should be paying, who's trying to over charge you, and what shops to avoid, then you can't be that bright. If it was newbies and tourists complaining, fair enough, but anybody who has been here a while should be on top of this problem already.

[katabeachbum]

we talking about some 'lestalaunt' showing 'Thai and 'falang' food'

You're not alone in this, but why is it so many people feel the need to mimic Thai peoples accents. I'm not being over sensitive here, it's just that to me, it highlights an underlying contempt you have for Thai people and Thailand itself. It seems to me, the number of people that really dislike Thai people is quite high and I have always found that pretty strange. I couldn't even go on holiday somewhere, let alone relocate somewhere, where I was constantly annoyed, suspicious, and frustrated by the local people. I'm not just talking about duel pricing, but right across the forum there seems to be a deep down contempt for Thai people. Maybe this isn't the best country for those people to live in. As for duel pricing, if you have been here for any length of time, and you still haven't worked out how much you should be paying, who's trying to over charge you, and what shops to avoid, then you can't be that bright. If it was newbies and tourists complaining, fair enough, but anybody who has been here a while should be on top of this problem already.

good post

Iv been going to the same barber in Kata for almost 7 years, the neighbor to my first home here. I used to pay 60 baht for haircut, and tip 20 baht. Couple of years back they made a new sign with 70 baht in thai and "Haircut 100 baht". The owner said to me "for you thai price". I pay 100 baht including tips anyway. Some other barbers charge 350 baht.

Why shouldnt 2-week tourists here pay more than the thais making 250 baht a day?

[billythehat]

Most posters seem to be completely missing the point. We're not talking about flashing your stupid Thai driver's licence at a bloody litter stewn waterfall most non Thais living here will probably visit once or twice in ten years, neither are we talking about some 'lestalaunt' showing 'Thai and 'falang' food' options with the Thai menu being cheaper than that which is poorly translated into English.

We're talking about the fact that there you are, standing on a bloody market stall/mom and pop shop, for chrissakes, and getting charged more than the Thai standing next to you, purely by virtue of the fact that YOU ARE WHITE. Geddit? Some of my Thai friends do, and are embarrassed by it. Jeez ...

It is clear to me, and I think most posters, that is what you are saying.

What I'm saying is: true to a certain extend, but not as much as a lot of posters here are saying.

On the other hand, I am saying that the same thing happens all over the world, where shop owners are trying to make many of people perceived as tourists. Somebody arriving at Kennedy Airport gets a different treatment if he speaks English with an accent and will pay more for a transfer into town, somebody who does not speak Englishi will pay more for something for sale at Penny Lane, somebody trying to buy Stroopwafels at the local market in Amsterdam will pay more if he does not speak Dutch.

These things happen, not all the time, but sometimes, yes. Just as sometimes people looking like tourists here on Phuket will pay more at whatever store.

Yes, but what sort of intelligent argument is that if one tries to back it up with clearly spurious claims?

"somebody who does not speak Englishi will pay more for something for sale at Penny Lane" ...Is neither true nor a valid comparative.

"somebody trying to buy Stroopwafels at the local market in Amsterdam will pay more if he does not speak Dutch."..Dear oh dear, if I may point out the ridiculous tenet of this statement. I visit the Dam at least once a year and have never observed this practice you claim. The prices for such items are displayed in Euro's and therefore your wallet and intelligence are unlikely to be insulted.

[stevenl]

I have seen with my own eyes that some people are charged more than others at Penny Lane. And The Dam is not a local market, Albert Cuijp would be more like it. A friend of mine has a market stall in Delft at the market, also quite a tourist center, and yes, there can be a price difference.

I don't see BTW why it would not be a valid comparative. In both cases it concerns a foreigner, the only difference being that in Thailand a foreigner is recognised by his looks, in the UK etc. that is not possible.

But the principle is the same: in a lot of instances foreigners pay more than natives, whether it be US, UK, Europe or Thailand.

Most posters seem to be completely missing the point. We're not talking about flashing your stupid Thai driver's licence at a bloody litter stewn waterfall most non Thais living here will probably visit once or twice in ten years, neither are we talking about some 'lestalaunt' showing 'Thai and 'falang' food' options with the Thai menu being cheaper than that which is poorly translated into English.

We're talking about the fact that there you are, standing on a bloody market stall/mom and pop shop, for chrissakes, and getting charged more than the Thai standing next to you, purely by virtue of the fact that YOU ARE WHITE. Geddit? Some of my Thai friends do, and are embarrassed by it. Jeez ...

It is clear to me, and I think most posters, that is what you are saying.

What I'm saying is: true to a certain extend, but not as much as a lot of posters here are saying.

On the other hand, I am saying that the same thing happens all over the world, where shop owners are trying to make many of people perceived as tourists. Somebody arriving at Kennedy Airport gets a different treatment if he speaks English with an accent and will pay more for a transfer into town, somebody who does not speak Englishi will pay more for something for sale at Penny Lane, somebody trying to buy Stroopwafels at the local market in Amsterdam will pay more if he does not speak Dutch.

These things happen, not all the time, but sometimes, yes. Just as sometimes people looking like tourists here on Phuket will pay more at whatever store.

Yes, but what sort of intelligent argument is that if one tries to back it up with clearly spurious claims?

"somebody who does not speak Englishi will pay more for something for sale at Penny Lane" ...Is neither true nor a valid comparative.

"somebody trying to buy Stroopwafels at the local market in Amsterdam will pay more if he does not speak Dutch."..Dear oh dear, if I may point out the ridiculous tenet of this statement. I visit the Dam at least once a year and have never observed this practice you claim. The prices for such items are displayed in Euro's and therefore your wallet and intelligence are unlikely to be insulted.

[LivinLOS]

somebody trying to buy Stroopwafels at the local market in Amsterdam will pay more if he does not speak Dutch.

I never noticed any difference if I ordered in English or Dutch.. But mostly stuck to olieballen

[LivinLOS]

I was constantly annoyed, suspicious, and frustrated by the local people.

Did it occur to you that maybe they didnt arrive that way ?? But continually being cheated, and lied to, creates that sentiment over time.

I always found it amusing reading Ted Simon (Jupiter rising.. Around the world on a motorbike) where he visits countries all over the world on every continent over 7 years and finds good in almost everyone, yet his comments on Thais were resoundingly down, claiming they couldnt tell the truth and cheating was a national sport (I think he also got robbed in Hat Yai). Thats from someone with a passion for travel and proven love of new people / open mind. The same theme is repeated in quite a few travellers tales things I have read.

[billythehat]

I have seen with my own eyes that some people are charged more than others at Penny Lane. And The Dam is not a local market, Albert Cuijp would be more like it. A friend of mine has a market stall in Delft at the market, also quite a tourist center, and yes, there can be a price difference.

I don't see BTW why it would not be a valid comparative. In both cases it concerns a foreigner, the only difference being that in Thailand a foreigner is recognised by his looks, in the UK etc. that is not possible.

But the principle is the same: in a lot of instances foreigners pay more than natives, whether it be US, UK, Europe or Thailand.

"the only difference being that in Thailand a foreigner is recognised by his looks, in the UK etc. that is not possible"

Yes, yes, "in the UK etc. that is not possible" and for that very reason it is not valid. I'm sorry if that's a difficult concept to grasp.

Substituting "will pay" for "can be" in the two posts still doesn't help the hot air either.

Edited October 19, 2009 by billythehat

[WOOHOO]

I was constantly annoyed, suspicious, and frustrated by the local people.

Did it occur to you that maybe they didnt arrive that way ?? But continually being cheated, and lied to, creates that sentiment over time.

I always found it amusing reading Ted Simon (Jupiter rising.. Around the world on a motorbike) where he visits countries all over the world on every continent over 7 years and finds good in almost everyone, yet his comments on Thais were resoundingly down, claiming they couldn't tell the truth and cheating was a national sport (I think he also got robbed in Hat Yai). Thats from someone with a passion for travel and proven love of new people / open mind. The same theme is repeated in quite a few travellers tales things I have read.

Ted Simon obviously wouldn't settle here then would he. I'm referring to people who have made a conscious decision to leave their own country and come and live in Thailand, and have nothing but disrespect and contempt for the native people. People constantly talk about Thais collectively, as money grabbing, moral less lowlife, which I find very strange, because I couldn't live among people that I had such a low opinion of. Far too hypercritical for me.

[LivinLOS]

I was constantly annoyed, suspicious, and frustrated by the local people.

Did it occur to you that maybe they didnt arrive that way ?? But continually being cheated, and lied to, creates that sentiment over time.

I always found it amusing reading Ted Simon (Jupiter rising.. Around the world on a motorbike) where he visits countries all over the world on every continent over 7 years and finds good in almost everyone, yet his comments on Thais were resoundingly down, claiming they couldn't tell the truth and cheating was a national sport (I think he also got robbed in Hat Yai). Thats from someone with a passion for travel and proven love of new people / open mind. The same theme is repeated in quite a few travellers tales things I have read.

Ted Simon obviously wouldn't settle here then would he. I'm referring to people who have made a conscious decision to leave their own country and come and live in Thailand, and have nothing but disrespect and contempt for the native people. People constantly talk about Thais collectively, as money grabbing, moral less lowlife, which I find very strange, because I couldn't live among people that I had such a low opinion of. Far too hypercritical for me.

But the point is perhaps they didnt arrive with those attitudes.. Those attitudes might come about after they invested into and or gained a Thai wife or even had children, it takes time to see through the veneer.

[WOOHOO]

But the point is perhaps they didnt arrive with those attitudes.. Those attitudes might come about after they invested into and or gained a Thai wife or even had children, it takes time to see through the veneer.

Then I can I only suggest that it's time for these people to move on to pastures new. Being happy with the people you live with and around is very important to a happy healthy life. Far too many people have an 'us and them' attitude to Thai people, and in case nobody noticed, the 'them' was here before the 'us' so maybe the 'us' need to move on.

[LivinLOS]

But the point is perhaps they didnt arrive with those attitudes.. Those attitudes might come about after they invested into and or gained a Thai wife or even had children, it takes time to see through the veneer.

Then I can I only suggest that it's time for these people to move on to pastures new. Being happy with the people you live with and around is very important to a happy healthy life. Far too many people have an 'us and them' attitude to Thai people, and in case nobody noticed, the 'them' was here before the 'us' so maybe the 'us' need to move on.

Yes but as I say, not so easy when you have Thai wives who dont have the travel access and also Thais sometimes dont live happy lives outside their comfort zone, so theres more than one person being considered its group happyness.

As to the them and us statement.. I find very often real locals, phuket families, are not the problem, its the mass influx of 'get rich quick' non locals doing the robbing, stealing, scamming etc. Very often they were not here before the 'us' if you hear phuketians talk about non locals you would hear the same kind of comments, from Thais about Thais..