Why Do We Swell Up Like Balloons In Los ?

[howmuch]

What's this we business?

[mrtoad]

Why not drink cider proper tramps juice in the UK?

You're clearly out of touch with you Tramp friends if you think cider is Tramps juice.

The choice of Tramps in the UK is normally Sherry or Special Brew -there are a number of these, not just Carlsberg. If a Tramp is going to get onto the Cider he may try a drop of White Lightning or Natch, but really Cider is not the choice of Tramps.

Okay, I'm off to the local park bench and get smashed on my bottles of Chang, will you be there again today Sanook?.

Edited October 8, 2009 by mrtoad

[bonobo]

@bonobo

You are right, even small amounts of alcohol do some damages to the liver - the more you drink the more damage and you are also right that this relationship is not linear.

However our liver is an absolutely amazing organ - it's another miracle of nature! No other organ in our body can heal as quickly and as completely as our liver. Unfortunately this healing still takes some time - can take a day for little damage but can take up to 4 days or more for a severe fatty liver after extreme drinking. Even a fatty liver that can have up to 4 times the normal weight can heal completely - BUT only if you are absolutely abstinent for a couple of days.

The problem starts if you don't give the liver the time it needs to heal completely. If you drink while the liver has not completely recovered then you risk doing some permanent damage. This damage might be tiny, hardly visible scars at first. If you keep drinking these scars add up and over many years (at least 5 years) daily drinking you run the risk of developing a liver cirrhosis.

The problem is that even what some people might call modest drinking, like 30-60 g of alcohol per day will eventually cause permanent damage and is definitely not safe. 30-60 g alcohol is about 0.75 to 1.5 liters of beer or 0.35 to 0.7 liters of wine. That is the reason why especially in the UK it is being discussed that the recommendations about "safe drinking" need to be revised. Amounts that don't do permanent damage to your liver when consumed 2-3 times per week can be several times higher than the amounts consumed on a daily basis. However you can drink much more without risking permanent liver damage if you don't drink more than 2-3 times a week.

Here a good discussion about this topic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8172982.stm

You are also right about some potential health benefits of stuff that is in the wine. Wine contains some anti oxidants that can have some beneficial effects to your health. However if you consume more than 0.35 to 0.7 liters of wine daily then the ill effects from the alcohol will by far outweigh the benefits of the antioxidants. Some recent studies have shown that if you want to drink enough wine to get enough of these antioxidants you have to drink quantities that are not considered as safe. There are many myths about the health benefits of wine and surely some people want to believe that wine is healthier than it really is.

This is actually still a very controversial topic and there are actually no well researched studies available yet that clearly prove the health benefits of wine. Here a nice discussion on this topic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8079816.stm

"It's an absolute myth that red wine is good for you," says Professor Valerie Beral from the University of Oxford and lead author of the Million Women study. "The evidence is not there."

OK, I'll buy that. That is either in line with what I have read or makes good sense on its own.

[patklang]

everytime i stay in los i swell up like a ballon,,as soon as i step off the plane my fingers swell up ,,next few days my ass and stomach,,if it is the chang beer then why can i drink 30 bottles of budweiser over a weekend in uk without swelling up like a balloon ? is it a mixture of heat and beer ? is anyone else the same ?

curious

So when you step off the plane you have already drank loads of Chang????

If my ass and stomach swelled after a few days,i would visit a hospital urgently.Does your ass look like a baboon type swollen???

[patklang]

Why not drink cider proper tramps juice in the UK?

You're clearly out of touch with you Tramp friends if you think cider is Tramps juice.

The choice of Tramps in the UK is normally Sherry or Special Brew -there are a number of these, not just Carlsberg. If a Tramp is going to get onto the Cider he may try a drop of White Lightning or Natch, but really Cider is not the choice of Tramps.

Okay, I'm off to the local park bench and get smashed on my bottles of Chang, will you be there again today Sanook?.

The tramps in ross,Hereford are scrumpy cider drinkers

[dmax]

i wouldnt of thought 30 bottles of beer over a weekend is excessive..thats only 15 pints ! 7 -8 pints per night ! and i wouldnt drink that every weekend but while on a trip i would drink 3 out of 7 days,i excercise sometimes prob about 3 times per week when in los and thats going to tonys gym for a 30-45 min jog or the same on the bags, i usually feel my fingers and feet swell first even as soon as i go to put my shoes on after touchdown in bkk they are way too tight and i notice my fingers have swollen to the point that i cant slide my ring off my finger as i used to in uk..so maybe that is due to cabin pressure so bonobo could be correct. last year i was in los for 1 month ,i was 90 kilos when i came ,when i returned home after four weeks i was 105 kilos, all i ate everyday was tom yam gai soup 2-3 times per day,no kfc or hotdogs or junk food...i did drink but tried to drink thai whiskey when i did go out and to be honest yes the beer was hard to stay off too. i wouldnt put that much weight on back home in a month if i drank the same and ate only soup everyday so the question is ,mite it be something to do with the heat ?

[mrtoad]

The tramps in ross,Hereford are scrumpy cider drinkers

High class Tramps in that part of the world.

[buddda]

everytime i stay in los i swell up like a ballon,,as soon as i step off the plane my fingers swell up ,,next few days my ass and stomach,,if it is the chang beer then why can i drink 30 bottles of budweiser over a weekend in uk without swelling up like a balloon ? is it a mixture of heat and beer ? is anyone else the same ?

curious

sounds like you got a drinking problem!

[TallForeigner]

i wouldnt of thought 30 bottles of beer over a weekend is excessive..thats only 15 pints ! 7 -8 pints per night ! and i wouldnt drink that every weekend but while on a trip i would drink 3 out of 7 days,i excercise sometimes prob about 3 times per week when in los and thats going to tonys gym for a 30-45 min jog or the same on the bags, i usually feel my fingers and feet swell first even as soon as i go to put my shoes on after touchdown in bkk they are way too tight and i notice my fingers have swollen to the point that i cant slide my ring off my finger as i used to in uk..so maybe that is due to cabin pressure so bonobo could be correct. last year i was in los for 1 month ,i was 90 kilos when i came ,when i returned home after four weeks i was 105 kilos, all i ate everyday was tom yam gai soup 2-3 times per day,no kfc or hotdogs or junk food...i did drink but tried to drink thai whiskey when i did go out and to be honest yes the beer was hard to stay off too. i wouldnt put that much weight on back home in a month if i drank the same and ate only soup everyday so the question is ,mite it be something to do with the heat ?

Wow!! You think drinking 4 liters of beer in one night is not excessive?? That's a massive amount! Even if you drink that much for "only" 3 days per week are you being 100% completely abstinent during the other days? If not then you will destroy your health and most certainly your liver very seriously.

You say that you exercise and you eat healthy. Sounds good.

However you gain more than 15% of your bodyweight within 4 weeks - and most probably by water retention! That's a major cause for concern!

At your age, with exercise and a healthy diet that must not happen. There is a good chance that there is a serious underlying medical problem - cardiac/circulatory and/or liver and/or kidneys or other problems. I don't know your medical history and I don't know about you other risk factors - do you smoke? However if your abdomen is bloating visibly as well then you have to consider this as being an additional serious alarm signal.

Your condition might be "borderline". At home and in your usual environment you are just doing fine but add any other stress factors like the heat and humidity in Thailand, maybe more booze and voila - you are over the limit and your underlying problems create these symptoms.

I recommend you to have yourself carefully checked. At 42 years of age, bloating with 15 liters of water within 4 weeks is certainly out of the ordinary and is definitely a cause for concern.

[HalfSquat]

Is four litres of beer a night really a lot? Will it actually cause problems if you drink that much say 2 or 3 times a week for 10 years?

Nearly everyone I know back home drinks that much and I've never heard of them having any problems. Most are under 35 though so perhaps the young are immune.

Is alcohol really that bad?

[TallForeigner]

Yes, 4 liters of beer per night is really a lot. That's about 150 g of pure alcohol or more than 1.5 liters of red wine.

As I said before every time you drink that much your liver will be seriously ill for some time and if you don't give your liver time to heal then you will end up with irreparable damage. If you only drink that amount about 2-3 times a week and you don't drink any alcohol at all for the rest of the week then you might get away with it. Well, your colleagues are under 35; let's have a look at them once they are 55 or older.

Yes, alcohol is really that bad - its probably much worse than you like to believe.

[optimistvik]

I cant judge the exact reason, but try to drink more water.

[bonobo]

Is four litres of beer a night really a lot? Will it actually cause problems if you drink that much say 2 or 3 times a week for 10 years?

Nearly everyone I know back home drinks that much and I've never heard of them having any problems. Most are under 35 though so perhaps the young are immune.

Is alcohol really that bad?

Not even considering the alcohol, 4 liters of beer is about 2,000 calories.  Three times a week, that is 6,000 calories, or enough to create 1.7 pounds of fat per week.  It would take running more than two marathons to burn off that much fat.  So depending on the rest of person's diet and activities, drinking this much beer would probably lead to some significant weight gain over time.

[Eff1n2ret]

everytime i stay in los i swell up like a ballon,,as soon as i step off the plane my fingers swell up ,,next few days my ass and stomach,,if it is the chang beer then why can i drink 30 bottles of budweiser over a weekend in uk without swelling up like a balloon ? is it a mixture of heat and beer ? is anyone else the same ?

curious

Interesting. Could be your body attempting to lower temperature by filling the exremities with blood. Best to drink lots of water the first couple of days eat well and avoid too much sunshine early on. Also avoid boozing until evenings might help.

With due regard to all the interesting stuff about liver problems, which might be a factor, I think it's the heat that sets off the oedema, and the advice given above is just about right.

[TallForeigner]

With due regard to all the interesting stuff about liver problems, which might be a factor, I think it's the heat that sets off the oedema, and the advice given above is just about right.

Sure, the heat can cause some oedema in some people. If these make a few kilos, then it's a lot.

However a water retention in 4 weeks time of more than 15% of one's body weight or 15 kg in the OP's case is far above the tolerable limit. A healthy body of a 42 year old man who is exercising and claiming to eat healthy isn't supposed to do that unless there are some other underlying problems.

[a99az]

Add to that a jog in the early AM(so as not to upset the locals) and you could return a new man.

I do agree with both of your posts, but how is an early morning jog going to upset the locals?!

What I said was serious, do drink more water and take a gentle jog when it is cooler in the morning. As to scaring the locals it’s my dry English humour sorry.

[Lopburi99]

Surprised nobody mentioned (unless I missed it) salt/sodium intake. Most Thai food is very salty and this leads to fluid retention in body tissue, therefore higher blood pressure also. After a day or two in Thailand my fingers and hands become puffier and stiffer, which I assumed was attributed to the salt. I think I remember hearing beer contains salt too. I love Thai food but I shudder at all the sodium I am ingesting.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Lopburi99

[FBN]

To have some fluid retention after a long flight as well as some disturbance of normal bowel movement and a resultant "blowing up" of the stomach is fairly common; especially if you get older.

This is also a function of how much you actually had to drink on the flight!

This, however, should not last more than a day or 2 in a "normal" person. If it lasts longer, at least have a liver function test done to determine the level of protein (albumine) in the serum.

The protein in blood/serum acts hygroscopically and prevents fluids from leaking out into tissues. Too low levels (as a result of liver damage) results in fluid accumulation in the abdominal cavity (ascites) and also oedema of the lower extremities.

This does occur fairly late with liver problems.

The other cause may be reduced cardiac output or even mild degree of congestive heart failure. This is usually also accompanied by shortness of breath when supine, non-productive cough and shortness of breath when walking or exercising.

High intake of salt, and in Thailand soy and fish sauce are the culprits, can also cause fluid retention. This, however, will not show up on a blood test. It may be more symptomatic in hot climates.

[OxfordWill]

Liver problems? Or keep yourself cooler

Edited October 8, 2009 by OxfordWill

[Kier]

I've also experienced this problem. I get it in the UK too but far worse in LOS. I'm only 25, don't drink excessively (although I have done in the past), eat a good diet and take very frequent exercise (I train in boxing min 5 days a week). After about a week of being in Thailand last year my lower legs and feet had swollen to such a size that even my flip flops were tight and I couldn't even think about putting on shoes. This went on for about a month and I was fighting it off by taking lassic (sp?) but this wasn't really solving the problem. At the time I was drinking large amounts of the 5 baht water in those bottles cheap bottles. Once I switched to the reverse osmosis water from those machines in the street, the problem went away. I did however swell in hands, bottom, legs and ankles if I had a few drinks.

I've been back in the UK quite a while now. Now that I am quite acutely aware of the swelling, I've noticed that even the smallest amount of alcohol (say two pints of lager once a week) will cause quite significant swelling the next day- enough that my jeans feel about a size smaller the next day. I think I really should get checked as I also have quite bad fatigue as of the last few years.

Does this sound like a liver problem. I went through a phase of about four months a couple of years ago where due to an injury I wasn't able to train, I took to drinking about 8 - 10 bottles of Chang a day at this time. Could this have been enough to cause damage? Lots of alcoholics surely drink far more than this for far longer without problems.

[Neeranam]

Why not drink cider proper tramps juice in the UK?

You're clearly out of touch with you Tramp friends if you think cider is Tramps juice.

The choice of Tramps in the UK is normally Sherry or Special Brew -there are a number of these, not just Carlsberg. If a Tramp is going to get onto the Cider he may try a drop of White Lightning or Natch, but really Cider is not the choice of Tramps.

Okay, I'm off to the local park bench and get smashed on my bottles of Chang, will you be there again today Sanook?.

What happened to Blue Ocean - Tennants Super(this tramps choice). Not much difference from Chang. I used to drink 4 large Changs before going to the bar - horrible stuff but did the job. I have no idea why a non-alkie would drink it.

[BugJackBaron]

Why not drink cider proper tramps juice in the UK?

You're clearly out of touch with you Tramp friends if you think cider is Tramps juice.

The choice of Tramps in the UK is normally Sherry or Special Brew -there are a number of these, not just Carlsberg. If a Tramp is going to get onto the Cider he may try a drop of White Lightning or Natch, but really Cider is not the choice of Tramps.

Okay, I'm off to the local park bench and get smashed on my bottles of Chang, will you be there again today Sanook?.

What happened to Blue Ocean - Tennants Super(this tramps choice). Not much difference from Chang. I used to drink 4 large Changs before going to the bar - horrible stuff but did the job. I have no idea why a non-alkie would drink it.

Cheapest beer for cheap Charlie?

[optimistvik]

Surprised nobody mentioned (unless I missed it) salt/sodium intake. Most Thai food is very salty and this leads to fluid retention in body tissue, therefore higher blood pressure also. After a day or two in Thailand my fingers and hands become puffier and stiffer, which I assumed was attributed to the salt. I think I remember hearing beer contains salt too. I love Thai food but I shudder at all the sodium I am ingesting.

yes i too forgot to mention this salt may also be one of the reason for swelling

[HABITAT]

I donate blood regularly, and was alarmed when I did so in Pattaya recently - at the Dusit - where they had a blood drive.

The locum asked me if I had any hypertension problems, to which I answered in the negative - it has always been 75/120.

She asked me if I drank Chang & ate Thai food, especially soups. I answered in the affirmative. They put me in a dark room,

where I dozed for a while. BP good - on with the leaching.

Having said that, I went back to my old routine of one glass of alcohol, one glass of water.

I might also add that I had just finished gym, and they dont want to crash your blood pressure by taking blood whilst your

metabolism is still running at 110% - hence the 'calming' period. I do approx 5 hours per week - mostly heavy lifting.

I would up your water intake to at least 5 litres per day - low salt/sodium water - more is better - your urine must be clear, white.

The water will help flush salts/etc out also.

I had my feet swell on a flight once - maybe 20 years back - but thats because I lived in a bar that week.

At 42 you might be headed for trouble - get help with the 30 bottles/day - its not anything to be proud of.

So much about alcohol & tobacco is that it becomes routine thing - like brushing your teeth - change the habit and

employ some discipline - it becomes all of u - besides its habit that got us there in the first place.

After the 2nd or 3rd Whiskey, one has already reached the ultimate high - the rest is repetitive & routine.

[TallForeigner]

yes i too forgot to mention this salt may also be one of the reason for swelling

Well, some swelling on ankles, legs and puffy fingers can happen and can have many different reasons. It could be a common "heat oedema" - can happen if one is not used to high temperatures and humidity or some swelling and puffiness can happen in the airplane or after really heavy intake of salt. This is usually nothing to worry about and it should go away after a few days.

The OP however is describing a weight increase of 15kg or more than 15% of his bodyweight within 4 weeks - at an age of only 42. That is far far beyond a harmless heat oedema or puffiness. Even if a healthy person eats too much salt one will certainly not retain that much fluid and increase one's bodyweight by more than 15%. Combined with a bloating of the stomach this is really a major cause for concern. Since you mention your drinking habits the abuse of alcohol over a long time in your life and hence a damaged liver is just one plausible reason but there can be other serious dangerous medical conditions. Definitely nothing to be taken lightly. To the OP: please get yourself checked carefully.

Edited October 9, 2009 by TallForeigner

[HABITAT]

The OP has already done the self-check - which is why he is here.

Now he needs to take action, do something about it.

Real simple, not rocket science.

Discipline.

To the OP: please get yourself checked carefully.