Farangs With No Visa.

[Mobi]

The retirement visa requirement is either 800k in the bank or a monthly income of over 60k, as certified by their embassies.

Many of these unfortunates have funds below the 800k simply due to the strength of the Baht and the current world recession, and in any event, if they have limited funds, the last thing they wish to do is leave 800k in a Thai bank earning no interest for an indefinite period.

Not exactly.

The requirment is 800K in a Thai bank account seasoned for 3 months for subsequent extensions

(OR) 65K baht per month income letter (not 60K)

(OR) a combination of income letter PLUS bank account exceeding 800K

Also remember long term retirees here are GRANDFATHERED based on any lower financial qualification they may have used in the past as long as they don't break the chain of continuous extensions.

BTW, I for one think the criminalization of visa overstays is something we must accept in Thailand but that does not mean we can't recognize it as being rather over the top. I find it rather barbaric that anyone would have to spend any significant length of time in prison for a visa overstay. I have much more sympathy for the "criminals" in these cases than the immigration authorities, even though I do recognize they are only following current Thai law. Look at Argentina, another country that attracts foreign expat slackers in droves and how they treat their visa over stayers for an example of a CIVILIZED approach.

Than you for correcting the detail.

It matters little, my points are the same.

They still have to have 800k in a non interest bearing account for a minimum of 3 months, and in practice that means much longer. And if they have it invested out of Thailand, and have to transfer it to Thailand with all the related cost for their retirement visa, then what are they to do with it? There are very few investment choices here, where they can invest for only 9 months, or more likely less. (The visa money must be in a savings account, which pay no interest). Or would you have them transfer it out again, pay the related fees, and lose on exchange in order to invest it for 9 months until it is needed again back in Thailand next year?

For all practical purposes, it must stay here as "dead' money, which is what the immigration rules intended.

I think the sum required was raised to 800k many years ago. I have had a retirement visa for 5 years, and it has always been 800K. A friend has had it for much longer and he still cannot be grandfathered. Also many of the old timers had marriage visas until the rules became more onerous, and then switched to retirement visas,which means they cannot be grandfathered. Others worked here and had work visas until they became too old or too sick to work - again they can't be grandfathered.

The bottom line is that we are not all wealthy and smart, and some people grow "less smart" as they age. Not all of us can keep one step ahead of the ever changing and complex rules, especially when times are getting financially burdensome.

[Jingthing]

Of course the retirement visa system offers very little security. Its one year at a time, take it or leave it. Many of the older retirees do have some kind of income though from a government pension, so that goes toward the 800K ...

[PattayaParent]

My daughter works at Immigration and I can assure you that the above is the tip of the iceberg.

The police cells in Chiang Mai are running wall to wall with Farang visa expirees.

Is only a matter of time before they`re rumbled and for those who associate with them, beware, you could be held libel by the police for not informing on them or your so called buddy, may drop you in at the deep end.

Mix with losers, become one yourself.

And I suppose they'll arrest the check out girl at the local 7-11 or the person that sells them their daily newspaper for not turning them in too??

[a99az]

I was surprised to hear from a friend the other day that his visa had ran out and he was not going to bother to renew it as he was no longer in the financial position to do so.

He went on to say he knew of 4 other farangs down pattaya beach road who also had not bothered to obtain a visa for the same financial reasons. looks like a sign of the times.

Clearly you must be mistaken, as it is not permitted to remain in the kingdom without a valid visa. Just as it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without a crash helmet or go through a red light.

[pop3]

I was surprised to hear from a friend the other day that his visa had ran out and he was not going to bother to renew it as he was no longer in the financial position to do so.

He went on to say he knew of 4 other farangs down pattaya beach road who also had not bothered to obtain a visa for the same financial reasons. looks like a sign of the times.

Clearly you must be mistaken, as it is not permitted to remain in the kingdom without a valid visa. Just as it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without a crash helmet or go through a red light.

Yes. Maybe I heard him wrong.

[pjclark1]

I recently discovered a friend of mine (who just left the country) had been living here for 5 years without a Visa. It is very easy to live here Visa free, unless you actually cross the border you don't ever need to produce a passport, so don't get caught.

But getting a Visa is very easy and costs very little, in CM you can bung certain educational establishments 15kbht and get yourself listed, as a volunteer entitled to an educational visa (2kb per 90 days). Or you can sign up for a Thai language course for 30kbht (visa 2kbht per 90 days).

Once you have a 5 year driving licence, no other ID seems to ever be required.

Edited October 11, 2009 by pjclark1

[phil2]

If you want to do you friend a favour, I suggest you don't publicise this too much.

You'd be surprised who reads this forum, and you may give them ideas to start checking on those who didn't renew their visas.

You're right. Especially mentioning their exact location.

[thaimiller]

A guy I knew who has left Chiang Mai now, but he had a bad run of things earlier in the year he handed himself into the Thai police as he had no visa, no money and was being evicted from his room, they took him to immigration who then told him to bugger off and come back when he had enough money to pay them. He didn't even have enough money to get himself arrested. Things turned out a bit better for him and business picked up and he paid his own way home a few weeks ago.

[Jaidii]

A guy I knew who has left Chiang Mai now, but he had a bad run of things earlier in the year he handed himself into the Thai police as he had no visa, no money and was being evicted from his room, they took him to immigration who then told him to bugger off and come back when he had enough money to pay them. He didn't even have enough money to get himself arrested.

I like it

[Lite Beer]

Post discussing Moderation Deleted.

[baboon]

Yeah - thats it - SWAT - how did you know?

Not TPV or SWAT then?

Madness. I would never mention my past in the British secret service to anyone, let alone my neighbours!

[bina]

Is only a matter of time before they`re rumbled and for those who associate with them, beware, you could be held libel by the police for not informing on them or your so called buddy, may drop you in at the deep end.

I for one think the criminalization of visa overstays is something we must accept in Thailand but that does not mean we can't recognize it as being rather over the top. I find it rather barbaric that anyone would have to spend any significant length of time in prison for a visa overstay

thailand is not the only coutnry with this policy. and the jails are full of guys w/o visas, just waiting to go home; and the 'visa police' are alive and well even as far as hanging out in areas that visa-less folks go to shop, hang out and socialize and where their kids go to kindergarten and school... and if u have a visa less person in your house, u can be (and many have been) fined, and prosecuted and even jailed.

dont stay in israel w/o up to date visa-- as this could be your fate also .

any country has the right to enforce its visa rules, change its regulations, in often times of economic trouble countries tend to make the 'standards' for visas more difficult.

but when YOU are the one who is the 'alien' rather then the home country, then things should be different?

not condoning the rules but thats one reason why we - hubby and i- arent in thailand now (although rules for farang wives are different now, i dont trust that it would stay that way.) although here isnt much easier. my husband was visa less for over a year, and spent time in jail because of it, trust me, i would be very paranoid to be w/o an up to date visa any where, any country for whatever reason.

bina

israel

[ReeBkk]

If you want to do you friend a favour, I suggest you don't publicise this too much.

You'd be surprised who reads this forum, and you may give them ideas to start checking on those who didn't renew their visas.

If "the authorities" are doing their jobs correctly (which I doubt), they will not need to waste their personal time reading the stuff on this forum.

Errr??? Any idea how many crimes are solved by following leads and information from the Internet???? I know it might sound stupid but most people are truly the victims of their own demise.....and the Internet is a perfect to begins ones descent.

[pop3]

If you want to do you friend a favour, I suggest you don't publicise this too much.

You'd be surprised who reads this forum, and you may give them ideas to start checking on those who didn't renew their visas.

If "the authorities" are doing their jobs correctly (which I doubt), they will not need to waste their personal time reading the stuff on this forum.

Errr??? Any idea how many crimes are solved by following leads and information from the Internet???? I know it might sound stupid but most people are truly the victims of their own demise.....and the Internet is a perfect to begins ones descent.

.....................

If your right then everybody on beach road without a visa will be arrested. lets see what happens

[Penefattore]

Mix with losers, become one yourself.

Speaking out of personal experience ?

[Penefattore]

What about the 2 farangs on Pattaya beach road, who collect plastic bottles daily ?

They walk up and down all day, with their huge plastic bags.

Wonder how their visa status are.

Not to speak of their work permits !

[Penefattore]

I was surprised to hear from a friend the other day that his visa had ran out and he was not going to bother to renew it as he was no longer in the financial position to do so.

He went on to say he knew of 4 other farangs down pattaya beach road who also had not bothered to obtain a visa for the same financial reasons. looks like a sign of the times.

Clearly you must be mistaken, as it is not permitted to remain in the kingdom without a valid visa. Just as it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without a crash helmet or go through a red light.

Yes. Maybe I heard him wrong.

You surely did

[swissie]

I wasn't suggesting that "they" will try to identify illegals through Thai Visa.

It is a known fact the Immigration read Thai Visa, and especially anything to do with visas etc.

If it became apparent to them that there was a growing number of illegals in Pattaya, they could do either of the following:

1. Raid "low end" bars, mini-mart drinking places and other locations where farangs with low disposable income may meet and drink, (Pattaya Tai market springs to mind), and check their visas. They would probably catch quite a number.

2. Check immigration records and print a report of all those farangs who have been here a few years, but have recently failed to renew. Their addresses should be on file, and some of the more likely ones could be checked out to see if they have left the country. If their computers are half way efficient, departures should have been recorded at the border from which they left, but I doubt this would be possible - but who knows? OK, many of these farangs may have moved or given false addresses, but there are always a few mugs who have failed to realise the danger of staying at the same address as that previously reported.

And finally, a riposte to all those "holier than thou" posters with their supercilious comments about those who for one reason or another, are less fortunate than themselves.

Many of these elderly farangs, who now face visa difficulties, have been here for a number of years - some of them for decades.

The retirement visa requirement is either 800k in the bank or a monthly income of over 60k, as certified by their embassies.

Many of these unfortunates have funds below the 800k simply due to the strength of the Baht and the current world recession, and in any event, if they have limited funds, the last thing they wish to do is leave 800k in a Thai bank earning no interest for an indefinite period.

Many of these folk have small state and/or occupational pensions, plus additional income from overseas investments, and are able to live here, a little frugally, but quite comfortably. Many are also supporting Thai wives and families, having previously bought them houses etc in their more prosperous days.

Their "official" income, as required by the authorities to qualify for a retirement visa may be below the minimum requirement, but they are still able to live comfortably with a much higher income than the average Thai.

Yes, there are some "down and outs' who should be deported back to their home countries where they would probably be better taken care of, but instead of denigrating them - how about a bit of compassion for your fellow men? Many of these are either alcoholics or suffer from mental illnesses and cannot help them selves.

And as we all know - Thailand may be wonderful place, but it can still kick you in the balls in a way few other countries can, as is evidenced by the high rate of farang suicides.

There but for the grace of God.....

Wasn't there a Visa-Sub Law, that if your place of residence in Thailand is in a Rural-Aerea (in the boonies) the required funds would be reduced to 400'000 Bht ?

[Camelot]

No, I don't think so. Certainly haven't heard anything about it.

Discriminating between town and country would be well-nigh impossible. People could too easily move around.

[learningcurve]

For those on overstay and have no money whatsoever, if they get caught, or hand themselves in to the Immigration police, they will be sent to the Foreign Detention Centre (jail) in Bangkok. Their appropriate Embassy will be informed of their arrest. In the case of most Europeon Embassies, the Consulate Section will then try to contact the person's family/friends in their home country and obtain money to pay for their overstay fine and flight home. If no money is forthcoming from their friends and family, the person (in British Passport holder cases) will reside in the Detention Centre for approximately 10 months before the British Government pay the air fare home. The person will then be in debt to the Home Office for the cost of the deportation. Best not to overstay I think! At the moment the FDC in Bangkok is overcrowded, more with Nigerians that any other nationality.

[longstebe]

The thought of spending a long time in Thailand appeals to most people.

This is were a lot of people get it wrong,not bringing enough money over or not having some sort of back up

plan. Ok, I have only been living here a couple of months in the sticks but I will always make sure I have

some sort of plan.

I guess some people don't give a toss,but these people usually fail in their bid to stay here.

Surely you know when your getting low on your money. Yes sh!t happens,but when in a foreign country

you should always have some sort of emergency funds.

No sympathy for these people. It's no joke.

[elektrified]

Maybe you should go visit a Thai jail sometime and see if you still want to stay without a visa.

Im begining to doubt the ferocity of pattaya immigration against what could be called farang beggers on beach road.

A farang with no money is no good to a Thai. no backhander can be paid to anyone. he has no possessions of any value. no money for an air ticket.

To send him home will cost Thailand money. to keep him in jail will also cost money. I think thats why their just leaving them on beach road ?

Maybe with ever increasing numbers they will have to change their policy ?

Maybe the recent floods washed away some of the scum.

[ballzafire]

Mix with losers, become one yourself.

That's why I try and avoid this site as much as possible.

Nah. Just be judicious in the topics you read and/or add the perennial whiners to your killfile like I do. Too much here to just chuck the whole thing.

Be a valuable participant who shares important info and/or provides a timely heads-up once in a while and the good karma will come back atcha...

[swissie]

The retirement visa requirement is either 800k in the bank or a monthly income of over 60k, as certified by their embassies.

Many of these unfortunates have funds below the 800k simply due to the strength of the Baht and the current world recession, and in any event, if they have limited funds, the last thing they wish to do is leave 800k in a Thai bank earning no interest for an indefinite period.

Not exactly.

The requirment is 800K in a Thai bank account seasoned for 3 months for subsequent extensions

(OR) 65K baht per month income letter (not 60K)

(OR) a combination of income letter PLUS bank account exceeding 800K

Also remember long term retirees here are GRANDFATHERED based on any lower financial qualification they may have used in the past as long as they don't break the chain of continuous extensions.

BTW, I for one think the criminalization of visa overstays is something we must accept in Thailand but that does not mean we can't recognize it as being rather over the top. I find it rather barbaric that anyone would have to spend any significant length of time in prison for a visa overstay. I have much more sympathy for the "criminals" in these cases than the immigration authorities, even though I do recognize they are only following current Thai law. Look at Argentina, another country that attracts foreign expat slackers in droves and how they treat their visa overstayers for an example of a CIVILIZED approach.

Jingthing: I also think that "Overstayers" in Thailand are receiving a (questionable) harsh treatement. Within this context, you mentioned Argentina and it's more "human" approach. So, before I Google this thing for enlightment, and since you have looked into this subject already, tell me (us) how Argentina handles a "Visa-Overstay-Sitation" ?

Thanks and cheers.

[Jingthing]

Argentina: overstays from one day to several years, pay a very small fine upon leaving at the airport, no mark in passport, can fly back in the same day and get a tourism stay. I am not sure what happens if you are "caught" in country that way, it may depend on whether you are from a first world country or from Bolivia (migrant workers). The kicker here is that in Argentina it is very difficult to function (open bank accounts, utilities, etc.) as an expat without what they call a DNS (Argentinian identity) and you won't get that without a proper visa. So you see they enforce this with positive reinforcement rather than punishment. Many people get around the DNS problem with close relationships with Argies. People still want to stay legal if they can so many English teacher types take periodic visa runs by boat to Uruguay.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Jingthing

[britmaveric]

Thailand has it right - you get caught you get severely punished! I wager you won't attempt to do it again once you spent bit of time in IDC.

[smokie36]

Thailand has it right - you get caught you get severely punished! I wager you won't attempt to do it again once you spent bit of time in IDC.

Agreed. If you can't afford a visa then go home!

And as much sympathy as I have for anyone who has retired in Thailand and finds themselves short of cash for whatever reason the message is the same.

[PaddyThai]

I wasn't suggesting that "they" will try to identify illegals through Thai Visa.

It is a known fact the Immigration read Thai Visa, and especially anything to do with visas etc.

If it became apparent to them that there was a growing number of illegals in Pattaya, they could do either of the following:

1. Raid "low end" bars, mini-mart drinking places and other locations where farangs with low disposable income may meet and drink, (Pattaya Tai market springs to mind), and check their visas. They would probably catch quite a number.

2. Check immigration records and print a report of all those farangs who have been here a few years, but have recently failed to renew. Their addresses should be on file, and some of the more likely ones could be checked out to see if they have left the country. If their computers are half way efficient, departures should have been recorded at the border from which they left, but I doubt this would be possible - but who knows? OK, many of these farangs may have moved or given false addresses, but there are always a few mugs who have failed to realise the danger of staying at the same address as that previously reported.

And finally, a riposte to all those "holier than thou" posters with their supercilious comments about those who for one reason or another, are less fortunate than themselves.

Many of these elderly farangs, who now face visa difficulties, have been here for a number of years - some of them for decades.

The retirement visa requirement is either 800k in the bank or a monthly income of over 60k, as certified by their embassies.

Many of these unfortunates have funds below the 800k simply due to the strength of the Baht and the current world recession, and in any event, if they have limited funds, the last thing they wish to do is leave 800k in a Thai bank earning no interest for an indefinite period.

Many of these folk have small state and/or occupational pensions, plus additional income from overseas investments, and are able to live here, a little frugally, but quite comfortably. Many are also supporting Thai wives and families, having previously bought them houses etc in their more prosperous days.

Their "official" income, as required by the authorities to qualify for a retirement visa may be below the minimum requirement, but they are still able to live comfortably with a much higher income than the average Thai.

Yes, there are some "down and outs' who should be deported back to their home countries where they would probably be better taken care of, but instead of denigrating them - how about a bit of compassion for your fellow men? Many of these are either alcoholics or suffer from mental illnesses and cannot help them selves.

And as we all know - Thailand may be wonderful place, but it can still kick you in the balls in a way few other countries can, as is evidenced by the high rate of farang suicides.

There but for the grace of God.....

Agree with the above.

Lots of people who thought thye had their lives sorted into retirement are now suffering in the west so it does not surprise me that they are suffering in Thailand too.

[LindsayBKK]

I take my Passport with me everyday and have only been asked

once by a Thai cop a long time ago. I don't know why I should bother.

They should be checking more often.

Edited October 15, 2009 by LindsayBKK

[enemedin]

I have been here three years and meet few people, that lost all, and waited till the end to buy the ticket back home... wonder what happens in the mind of these people