Do You Prefer Thailand Or Siam For The Name Of This Country?

[momay]

I really prefer SIAM because it is more unique. A lot of people mistaken THAILAND for TAIWAN.

[hhgz]

"A lot of people mistaken THAILAND for TAIWAN."

Those people are not particularly intelligent and, changing the name of a country for those dull and witless, we'd have "Los Angeles".

[HappyThaiLife]

1) The phrase "Land of the free" is derived from Thai pride in the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonized by a European power.

2) A famous Thai scholar argued that Tai (ไท) simply means "people" or "human being" since his investigation shows that in some rural areas the word "Tai" was used instead of the usual Thai word "khon" for people.

In my opinion, keep it thailand because of the above; it is quite free here when you have the cash to pay your way into and out of pretty much anything...

[tmark]

1) The phrase "Land of the free" is derived from Thai pride in the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonized by a European power.

2) A famous Thai scholar argued that Tai (ไท) simply means "people" or "human being" since his investigation shows that in some rural areas the word "Tai" was used instead of the usual Thai word "khon" for people.

In my opinion, keep it thailand because of the above; it is quite free here when you have the cash to pay your way into and out of pretty much anything...

Got things a little turned around there.

1. That's still debatable (except in Thailand of course) They gave huge chunks of land to the French to avoid colonization .. ironically they waved a white flag at the French! (thought that was their specialty) Then the Japanese had their run of the place for a while of course and that's the bit that's debated. They didn't actually colonize the place .. but they certainly had it by the short and curlies.

2. "ไท" actually means "free" ... "Thailand" .. "Land of the free" ... Mmmm .. where have I heard that before? Don't tell me they "copied" it from somewhere. They are good copiers though. They are only following orders though. One of the earlier Thai kings (can't recall which one .. Rama 5 maybe?) was quoted as saying something like "Learn from the foreigner, copy him but don't trust him" I don't think he had DVD's and designer labels in mind though! 

Edited October 26, 2009 by tmark

[tangqian86]

I prefer Siam, it's shorter, simple and full of history.

[Jimjim]

I would say Siam merely because I read a stellar article by a Thai scholar that said Siam as a name is more inclusive as Thailand is home to many more ethnicities than just the ancient Tais.

[phetaroi]

I also would like to see the locals going back to wearing MC Hammer pants and going barefoot.

Good news...I did (see that, I mean), just about 5 days ago when in the Emporium...although not barefoot.

[enyaw]

I prefer Siam it sounds more distant, culturally diverse. Does any one use the term 'far east' anymore? I prefer that for the same reasons but it's apparently not p.c. to do so?

[enyaw]

I really prefer SIAM because it is more unique. A lot of people mistaken THAILAND for TAIWAN.

and t'Ireland.

[tmark]

I would say Siam merely because I read a stellar article by a Thai scholar that said Siam as a name is more inclusive as Thailand is home to many more ethnicities than just the ancient Tais.

But that's one of the reasons they changed it! Because of the "many more ethnicities" Especially the Chinese. Our smiling hosts ARE somewhat racist. Ask any dark skinned Issaan person or a Black American trying to get a teaching gig.

In addition to the countries name change was the earlier introduction of Surnames. Thais didn't have them before. They were designed to differentiate Thais from the Chinese who had somewhat long surnames. Thai Surnames are usually short. A lot of Thai Chinese adopted Thai surnames to avoid persecution.

Edited October 27, 2009 by tmark

[tmark]

1) The phrase "Land of the free" is derived from Thai pride in the fact that Thailand is the only country in Southeast Asia never colonized by a European power.

2) A famous Thai scholar argued that Tai (ไท) simply means "people" or "human being" since his investigation shows that in some rural areas the word "Tai" was used instead of the usual Thai word "khon" for people.

In my opinion, keep it thailand because of the above; it is quite free here when you have the cash to pay your way into and out of pretty much anything...

Got things a little turned around there.

1. That's still debatable (except in Thailand of course) They gave huge chunks of land to the French to avoid colonization .. ironically they waved a white flag at the French! (thought that was their specialty) Then the Japanese had their run of the place for a while of course and that's the bit that's debated. They didn't actually colonize the place .. but they certainly had it by the short and curlies.

2. "ไท" actually means "free" ... "Thailand" .. "Land of the free" ... Mmmm .. where have I heard that before? Don't tell me they "copied" it from somewhere. They are good copiers though. They are only following orders though. One of the earlier Thai kings (can't recall which one .. Rama 5 maybe?) was quoted as saying something like "Learn from the foreigner, copy him but don't trust him" I don't think he had DVD's and designer labels in mind though! 

I have to correct myself a little.

"ไท" does mean free ... and "ไทย" refers to a racial group of people. (Tais) The latter is used to spell Thailand in Thai script so translating "Thailand" as the "Land of the free" is incorrect. It really means "The land of the Tais" 

"ไท" is often mistakenly said to be derived from "ไทย" Thailand knows this but decided to leave it as it was and avoid any lengthy explanations. Just laziness .. that's all.

I reread the Wiki entry "in full" that "HappyThaiLife" copied/pasted from and it seems the "Thai Scholar" was incorrect.

Further research elsewhere reveals that Field Marshal Plaek Phibun Songkhram who initiated the name change was a supporter of fascism. Fascist theory in the 1930s, followed the idea of racial purity.. so.. Siam was renamed as Thailand, "The land of the Tais". 

What do our anally PC American cousins think of that !!! ?

Edited October 27, 2009 by tmark

[Livinginexile]

When Thailand finally makes a genuine effort to clean up it's image, much like Hong Kong did in the 60-70's, then hopefully they will change their name back to Siam.

Why change it now and sully a beautiful name?

[IanForbes]

Although I prefer the name "Siam" to "Thailand", it doesn't really bother me and see no need to change it back. It would only confuse things even more. I much prefer Burma to Myanmar as well, but I can live with either. You could call it Ningnoisoi for all I care and once it has been changed officially then we have to get on with life.

[Jingthing]

There is no serious movement to change it back. I just wanted to gauge which name people like better. The results are as I predicted.

[Svenn]

I know where you're coming from OP, but it's hard to see these two names substitutable synonyms... it's tantamount to asking "which sounds better? zimbabwe or brazil?" For me, they both mean something distinct and have practical meaning in the present day. 'Siam' or 'Siamese' refers to the majority Thai group of the Chao Praya river basin... it excludes other "Tai" people such as Lanna and Laotian Isaan... not to mention non-Tai Malay.

Many farangs don't realize this, and think it's just a romantic synonym for Thailand... it's not, and is actually a tool of ethnic pride by the majoirty. My gf is from isaan, and always distinguishes kohn lao from kohn siam when she's talking to me. The real Siam ended a couple hundred years ago when the Chinese became the majority in Bangkok.

Well, you can look at it two ways. "Thailand" was introduced by a nationalist dictator to try and give legitimacy to the nation-state as primarily the home of the ethnic Tai (Siamese, Lao, Lanna, Tai Yai, etc) and so it excluded the Chinese and other minority groups. The modern proponents of "Siam" (who happen to be mostly Chinese) claim it is less ethnicity-specific. It was originally the name for central Thailand rather than the whole of it, but that included groups such as Mons and Khmers, as well as Siamese.

Interesting. I don't see how that makes 'Siam' any more ethnically non-specific or inclusive to the Chinese... in fact, Siam is a much narrower ethnic group and excludes them even further (especially when you consider that the Tais originally came from China millenia ago).

My theory of what's really going on here is that the dominant 'intellectual' Chinese-Thais, in order to self-integrate themselves into Thai history, have created a farcical and historically-inaccurate "dominant Siamese" phenotype in Thai film characterized by fair skin and a more Southern-Chinese appearance. Thus all the "true" Siamese kings (e.g. Narusuan) and leaders in Thai film are meant to impose on the modern Thai masses the idea that 'real' Thais are white and Chinese-looking. Thus you get the Chinese trying to attach themselves to the Siamese nostalgia, and they start building crap like the "Siam Paragon." This is of course not at all accurate- the original Siamese looked undoubtedly like the average modern Isaan person, since roughly 700 years ago they were THE EXACT SAME ethnic group.

Anyway, this is political, sorry OP.

[pampal]

How about the Royal Kingdom of Siam?

[tmark]

How about "YimMaiJingLand" (Land of false smiles) .. just kidding guys!

[EffectiveAnger]

I know where you're coming from OP, but it's hard to see these two names substitutable synonyms... it's tantamount to asking "which sounds better? zimbabwe or brazil?" For me, they both mean something distinct and have practical meaning in the present day. 'Siam' or 'Siamese' refers to the majority Thai group of the Chao Praya river basin... it excludes other "Tai" people such as Lanna and Laotian Isaan... not to mention non-Tai Malay.

Many farangs don't realize this, and think it's just a romantic synonym for Thailand... it's not, and is actually a tool of ethnic pride by the majoirty. My gf is from isaan, and always distinguishes kohn lao from kohn siam when she's talking to me. The real Siam ended a couple hundred years ago when the Chinese became the majority in Bangkok.

I don't know about 'the majority in Bangkok,' but they certainly became the ruling majority of Bangkok (along with the rest of the country), especially after the establishment of government. They never asked the people of this country what name they prefer!

We also have to take into account that there are several ways to pronounce 'Siam.'

So, how do you prefer to pronounce it? I say, 'see-amh.' Others like, 'sayaam' or 'sI-am.' My transliteration is probably not good, but it gives some idea.

[sabaijai]

I hear "sa-yaam" more than "see-yam"

Correct.

[tmark]

I hear "sa-yaam" more than "see-yam"

Correct.

Wrong

Who do you hear say it? Thais or Farangs? .. I haven't heard any Thais say sah-yaam" .. rhymes with "pan?

My GF says "see-yahm" .. as does the recorded voice on the skytrain. I'm not going to argue with a train! (or the GF)

...But when I read the  written Thai "ีสยาม" .. it  looks like "sah-yahm" (not "sah yaam")

The GF says it's a "colloquial" pronunciation" (I'm loosely translating here!) and that's just the way Thais say it .. including trains.

Edited October 27, 2009 by tmark

[ignoramus]

Siam, by a country mile. Thai'land' is hokey, but only in comparison. Siam always sounded exotic, to me. Thailand is just a name, Siam is a place.