Cash Transfer Test

[ChouDoufu]

Today I decided to try moving cash from the us. The exchange rate according to xe.com (not taking into account spreads) was 33.4448 at noon today.

Stopped by Kasikorn bank and asked the nice counter lady what fees would be charged. Use of ATM with non-KK card 150 baht, or use the card at the counter with no fee.

Both would have the TTN rate applied, which was currently 33.46 according to her computer screen.

I’m using my Visa debit card attached to my US brokerage account, which as of this morning had $310 in spare change lying around unused. This account does not charge

for ATM withdrawals, and will refund ATM transaction fees if the ATM has the Plus, Visa, or Cirrus logos, up to $75 annually. There is a 1% foreign transaction fee.

First withdrew 5000 baht from the ATM. With the 150 ATM baht fee, the total was 5150 baht.

According to my brokerage online account, I was charged $154.61; accounting for the 1% fee, the exchange rate was 33.6425

Today is Columbus day, banks in the US are closed, so will have to contact them tomorrow about the 150 baht fee refund.

Next made a 5000 baht cash advance at the bank counter.

The online charge was 150.11; subtract the 1% fee and the exchange rate here was 33.6428

Next step is to compare this to a SWIFT transfer.

My brokerage will do swift transfers at no charge. The only fee is that imposed by Kasikorn, plus the currency conversion.

The nice bank lady tells me Kasikorn charges two fees.

The first fee is US->BK; this fee is 0.25% of the transfer amount, minimum of 200 baht, maximum of 500 baht.

The second fee is BK->CM, this fee is 10 baht per 10000 baht transferred, plus an additional fee of 20 baht for some reason or other.

At the current exchange rate, a SWIFT transfer, US->BK->CM will be:

For $1000, fee is 253 baht or $7.50 [0.75%] vs. 335/$10 for cash advance

For $5000, fee is 605 baht or $18.00 [0.36%] vs. 1673/$50 for cash advance

Seems to make more sense, to me at least, to do monthly cash advances rather than larger SWIFT transfers, assuming I’m earning enough in my

brokerage account to cover the fee differential. And I save the cost of a fax to my broker to initiate the SWIFT.

Did i forget anything?

[lukeskywalker]

Today I decided to try moving cash from the us. The exchange rate according to xe.com (not taking into account spreads) was 33.4448 at noon today.

Stopped by Kasikorn bank and asked the nice counter lady what fees would be charged. Use of ATM with non-KK card 150 baht, or use the card at the counter with no fee.

Both would have the TTN rate applied, which was currently 33.46 according to her computer screen.

I'm using my Visa debit card attached to my US brokerage account, which as of this morning had $310 in spare change lying around unused. This account does not charge

for ATM withdrawals, and will refund ATM transaction fees if the ATM has the Plus, Visa, or Cirrus logos, up to $75 annually. There is a 1% foreign transaction fee.

First withdrew 5000 baht from the ATM. With the 150 ATM baht fee, the total was 5150 baht.

According to my brokerage online account, I was charged $154.61; accounting for the 1% fee, the exchange rate was 33.6425

Today is Columbus day, banks in the US are closed, so will have to contact them tomorrow about the 150 baht fee refund.

Next made a 5000 baht cash advance at the bank counter.

The online charge was 150.11; subtract the 1% fee and the exchange rate here was 33.6428

Next step is to compare this to a SWIFT transfer.

My brokerage will do swift transfers at no charge. The only fee is that imposed by Kasikorn, plus the currency conversion.

The nice bank lady tells me Kasikorn charges two fees.

The first fee is US->BK; this fee is 0.25% of the transfer amount, minimum of 200 baht, maximum of 500 baht.

The second fee is BK->CM, this fee is 10 baht per 10000 baht transferred, plus an additional fee of 20 baht for some reason or other.

At the current exchange rate, a SWIFT transfer, US->BK->CM will be:

For $1000, fee is 253 baht or $7.50 [0.75%] vs. 335/$10 for cash advance

For $5000, fee is 605 baht or $18.00 [0.36%] vs. 1673/$50 for cash advance

Seems to make more sense, to me at least, to do monthly cash advances rather than larger SWIFT transfers, assuming I'm earning enough in my

brokerage account to cover the fee differential. And I save the cost of a fax to my broker to initiate the SWIFT.

Did i forget anything?

Cash advance with ATM or over the counter?

[ChouDoufu]

knew i forgot something. definitions.

ATM withdrawal is from the machine. card limit $500/day

Cash advance is at the counter. card limit $2499/day

[NancyL]

We've found the best exchange rate to be with direct deposit of my husband's private pension into the NYC branch of Bangkok Bank where it shows up in our Bangkok Bank account here the same day. Also, we have a Visa card thru a U.S. credit union and their exchange rate for purchases is very good -- very, very close to that of Bangkok Bank for hubby's pension -- plus we get cash back each year from our credit union. The exact rebate rate depends upon the profitability of the credit union that year (remember, credit unions are member-owned) and how much we spend on that Visa card. So we can't predict in advance the amount of the rebate, but it's usually around 1%.

So, we use the Visa card for bigger purchases at western-style places (like Tops and Rim Ping) where we can keep our beady little eyes on the card during the entire transaction. There's no way we'd use our Visa card in a restaurant where the waitress goes trotting off with it (maybe never to be seen again!).

[jgm005]

I found your thread interesting. With the 150 bt rip off fee now being charged by all Thai Banks except for AEON I have been looking at a different way to move money into my Kasikorn Account.

Last week I did a SWIFT transfer from my Vanguard Account (no fees and one can do it on line). I knew about Kasikorn's fees (my account is in BKK) but the exchange rate that Kasikorn used was not the rate, for the day, if one looked it up in XE.COM. It was close to but not quite exactly the rate Kasikorn showed on their website for the date received!

The next time large money is needed I am going to have the better half do a cash advance.

Thanks for the information!

[vagabond48]

First withdrew 5000 baht from the ATM. With the 150 ATM baht fee, the total was 5150 baht.

According to my brokerage online account, I was charged $154.61; accounting for the 1% fee, the exchange rate was 33.6425

Today is Columbus day, banks in the US are closed, so will have to contact them tomorrow about the 150 baht fee refund.

Next made a 5000 baht cash advance at the bank counter.

The online charge was 150.11; subtract the 1% fee and the exchange rate here was 33.6428

Your calculations are correct except, even though the reps tell us there is an additional VISA foreign exchange fee of .84% (not 1%), it appears it is never included, so your exchange rate was 33.309 which is inline with today's IER of 33.3349.

Regarding the cash advance at the bank counter, was this a paper transaction or did they swipe your card. If it was a paper transaction, I have read here, it can take 3 business days before the cash advance at the bank counter transaction is completed and the exchange rate is calculated on the day the transaction is completed.

[ChouDoufu]

vagabond48: here be my calculations...

CASH 5000/33.6428=148.62 +1% (1.49) = $150.11

ATM 5000+150=5150/33.6425= 153.08 + 1% (1.53) = 154.61

the 5000 baht is what the ATM/teller gave me.

visa did the currency conversion, so i'm not sure if KK's rate actually applied here.

it is visa that adds the 1% foreign transaction fee as stated in the card tos.

they swiped my card at the counter.

the two charges appeared on my brokerage account within a couple hours.

jpg005: for large sums, you may be better off with the SWIFT transfer. what does vanguard charge in foreign transaction fees?

cash advance will work for me, i can move smaller sums and leave the rest in juicy mutual funds.

can't always go by the xe.com numbers. rates change throughout the day, would need to know what time they processed your transaction

if you wanted to confirm an exact match.

[jgm005]

Vanguard had no fees. It took about 3 weeks to get the link set up between Kasikorn and Vanguard and with it I can now initiate a wire transfer from Vanguard.

[vagabond48]

vagabond48: here be my calculations...

CASH 5000/33.6428=148.62 +1% (1.49) = $150.11

ATM 5000+150=5150/33.6425= 153.08 + 1% (1.53) = 154.61

the 5000 baht is what the ATM/teller gave me.

visa did the currency conversion, so i'm not sure if KK's rate actually applied here.

it is visa that adds the 1% foreign transaction fee as stated in the card tos.

can't always go by the xe.com numbers. rates change throughout the day, would need to know what time they processed your transaction

if you wanted to confirm an exact match.

Thanks for the information about the teller withdrawal.

I guess I calculate your figures differently.

I use xrate.com which gives me the IER at the end of each day.

I assumed you withdrew the money Monday 10/12. They recorded an IER of 33.3349.

I have always gotten an ATM rate that was between 99.9% to 100.1% of the recorded IER.

I calculated the above as follows,

ATM 5000+150=5150/154.61 = 33.3096 99.92% of IER

CASH 5000/150.11 = 33.3089 99.92% of IER

Both results are inline with x-rate and the Bank of Thailand

[jfchandler]

Which brokerage is providing the set of account features you mention below???

I’m using my Visa debit card attached to my US brokerage account... This account does not charge for ATM withdrawals, and will refund ATM transaction fees if the ATM has the Plus, Visa, or Cirrus logos, up to $75 annually. There is a 1% foreign transaction fee.

Just to be clear, I assume you mean your brokerage will refund OTHER BANKS' ATM charges up to $75 per year. Have you confirmed thru actual use that they'll do those refunds for the Thai 150 baht scheme??? And, if so, do they do the refunds automatically, or only upon request such as phone call by you?

But, the 1% foreign transaction fee on ATM withdrawals, I assume, your brokerage will NOT refund, since that is their own (or VISA's own) fee. So effectively, that reduces your yield every time you withdraw cash at the ATM...right now... by about .33 of a baht per dollar.

My brokerage will do swift transfers at no charge.

[ChouDoufu]

jmg005: is that no fees for both a SWIFT and for a cash advance? i've got free SWIFT, but still have the 1% foreign transaction fee for ATM and purchases.

vagabond48: i checked xe.com about an hour before i did the two transactions for a rough idea of the wholesale exchange rate. what the banks and credit card companies charge

won't necessarily be the same. the rate at the end of the day would not matter unless this was a paper transaction where they would apply the rate on the day of the transaction.

this was immediate, so they must have used the rate at the time (or their version of it). i checked my online account when i got home, about two hours later, and the two

transactions had already posted (at about 4am new york time).

i used (x + .01x) = y to find the dollar amount of the baht withdrawal before the 1% fee was added. then divided the baht amount by this number to find the exchange rate

this gave me exchange rates of 33.6428 and 33.6425, close enough to assume a very minor rounding error OR the transaction was processed in real time, and the difference of 0.0003

was the change in the exchange rate in the five minutes between the two transactions. this rate is slightly higher than the 33.46 rate the nice lady KK quoted me. her quote was

about 30 minutes after i checked the xe.com rate of 33.4448

jfchandler: this is a gold visa thru fidelity. fidelity does not charge for atm withdrawals. the terms of service state they will refund (up to $75 annually) ATM charges when using

the card at an ATM displaying the Star, Plus, Visa or Cirrus logos. the 1% foreign transaction fee is charged by Visa and is not refunded.

i don't know yet whether they will indeed reverse the charge. this was designed as a test 1) are atm and counter exchange rates the same, 2) what exchange rate is used, and

3) will the atm fee be refunded (and if so, is it automatic).

you are correct. the 1% fee will not be refunded. i also got the KK incoming SWIFT fees to work out the total fees. for me, if i need a large amount of baht for a major purchase

(unless it goes on a 0% APR credit card - ach, more variables!) i would do a SWIFT transfer. but for daily expenses, i will be doing a monthly cash advance at the counter instead

of a SWIFT large enough for 3-6 months. just have to take into account a difference of about 0.5% (cash advance vs. SWIFT) in relation to leaving funds for an additional three

months or so in a fund up 70% YTD (well, this year at least).

i don't know how reversal of the atm fee will go. this is the first time i've used the card in 15 years, surprised i remembered the card's pin! when i checked my account, both

transactions had been posted, but there was no fee breakdown, just a final amount. how do they know there was an atm fee? so it seems this is NOT automatic, i need to

contact them to request the reversal, at it seems i'll have to prove it. i spoke with one of their IM reps last night, he had me email the special services group. but without fee

detail in account history, i don't know how they'll handle the request. the atm receipt shows the baht withdrawal as well as the 150 baht fee. they may want a scan and email,

or mail hardcopy, or just take my word for it. but then that's the reason for doing this little test. i'll post an update when finalized. again for me, it will be cheaper and simpler

to do a monthly cash withdrawal at the bank counter.

[hansnl]

I found your thread interesting. With the 150 bt rip off fee now being charged by all Thai Banks except for AEON I have been looking at a different way to move money into my Kasikorn Account.

Last week I did a SWIFT transfer from my Vanguard Account (no fees and one can do it on line). I knew about Kasikorn's fees (my account is in BKK) but the exchange rate that Kasikorn used was not the rate, for the day, if one looked it up in XE.COM. It was close to but not quite exactly the rate Kasikorn showed on their website for the date received!

The next time large money is needed I am going to have the better half do a cash advance.

Thanks for the information!

Last week I was charged the 150 baht ripoff fee at the AEON ATM in Khon Kaen, Fairy Plaza.

So I presume all banks now adhere to this nice way of milking "cash cows"

[ChouDoufu]

the ripoff fee is kinda high, i suppose, but even banks that don't deal in hard currency, like wells fargo, have fees for non-bank-owned atm's:

"You can make withdrawals without a fee at any of our ATMs. If you use an ATM that is not Wells Fargo’s, a fee may apply.

Fees vary by type of account. Typical fees for transactions at non-Wells Fargo ATMs are:

* Non-Wells Fargo ATMs Transaction (U.S.) $2.50*

* Balance Inquiry fee: $1.50 each

* International Transaction fee: $5 each

* Other Fees: Owners and operators of non-Wells Fargo ATMs may charge a fee in addition to those described above.

* Wells Fargo will assess a $5 fee for ATM cash withdrawals made outside of the United States and a 3% foreign currency

conversion fee for purchases made with your Check Card."

[vagabond48]

Last week I was charged the 150 baht ripoff fee at the AEON ATM in Khon Kaen, Fairy Plaza.

So I presume all banks now adhere to this nice way of milking "cash cows"

Last Thursday and Friday, I also withdrew money from Aeon and was not charged 150b. In fact, they have a warning message about other banks charging this fee. Here is my comment I posted this morning.

I saw an additional encouraging sign that they plan to keep their current fee free policy.

Besides displaying at their locale machine a warning about other banks charging the 150b fee, they also have as a pop up window on their website. Since I use ABP to suppress popups, I had to allow their pop up window to display.

[jfchandler]

I'm guessing, you may have used another bank's ATM machine, not AEON's. I've noticed, there are several other banks with ATM colors and styles that look similar to AEON's, including TMB (Thai Military Bank), which has a similar blue-grey coloring.... Sometimes, their signage isn't all that good, especially on standalone ATMs.

AEON is not charging the 150 baht withdrawal fee.

Last week I was charged the 150 baht ripoff fee at the AEON ATM in Khon Kaen, Fairy Plaza.

So I presume all banks now adhere to this nice way of milking "cash cows"

[jgm005]

jmg005: is that no fees for both a SWIFT and for a cash advance? i've got free SWIFT, but still have the 1% foreign transaction fee for ATM and purchases.

SNIPPED ....

There was no fee of any kind for the SWIFT using Vanguard. My ATM is with Capital One and there is no 1% foreign transaction fee for it. My Local Credit Union ATM, which I do not use overseas, does charge the 1% fee.

I have not done a Cash Advance; "yet".

[ChouDoufu]

all right, i was wrong. fidelity does NOT reimburse atm fees other than domestic. it took a bit of digging, that limitation does not appear on the

parts of the website detailing use of the visa card, nor on the check card agreement. no, it's tucked away on page 12 (of 34 pages) of the

customer account agreement. looking at the gold card page of the website you'd never know international atm fees would NOT be reimbursed.

the online rep was unaware of this as well. i emailed the special services group. their response email explained the limitiation, but agreed to

reverse the charge this time. i'll be using the counter in the future, no 150 baht atm charge, and higher withdrawal limit. oh, and only the

first five transactions per month are fee-free, after that it's $1/transaction.

[elektrified]

I found your thread interesting. With the 150 bt rip off fee now being charged by all Thai Banks except for AEON I have been looking at a different way to move money into my Kasikorn Account.

Last week I did a SWIFT transfer from my Vanguard Account (no fees and one can do it on line). I knew about Kasikorn's fees (my account is in BKK) but the exchange rate that Kasikorn used was not the rate, for the day, if one looked it up in XE.COM. It was close to but not quite exactly the rate Kasikorn showed on their website for the date received!

The next time large money is needed I am going to have the better half do a cash advance.

Thanks for the information!

Last week I was charged the 150 baht ripoff fee at the AEON ATM in Khon Kaen, Fairy Plaza.

So I presume all banks now adhere to this nice way of milking "cash cows"

I used AEON Sunday evening at Tesco Kamtieng and was not charged 150 Baht.

[jfchandler]

ChouDoufu, re Fidelity ATM reimbursements, did you actually incur a 150 baht Thai ATM fee and wait to see if Fidelity would automatically reimburse it, and find they did not? Or are you just going by what they've told you verbally, or or listed on their web site???

The reason I ask that is... if you ask E*Trade the same question, or look at the information on their web site, they will tell you that they won't reimburse that kind of fee... But in practice and reality, they do, and it happens automatically, without the need for any calls or customer contacts.

Sometimes, what the bank/broker CSRs tell you over the phone or email is just inaccurate. Foreign ATM reimbursements is not a topic that most of them deal with very much, as you might imagine. So it wouldn't surprise if they're not totally aware of the way things work. That's why I'd want to see what happens in reality, not just what they say will happen.

all right, i was wrong. fidelity does NOT reimburse atm fees other than domestic. it took a bit of digging, that limitation does not appear on the parts of the website detailing use of the visa card, nor on the check card agreement. no, it's tucked away on page 12 (of 34 pages) of the

customer account agreement. looking at the gold card page of the website you'd never know international atm fees would NOT be reimbursed.

the online rep was unaware of this as well. i emailed the special services group. their response email explained the limitiation, but agreed to reverse the charge this time. i'll be using the counter in the future, no 150 baht atm charge, and higher withdrawal limit.

The first five of WHAT KIND of transactions are fee-free per month with Fidelity???

oh, and only the

first five transactions per month are fee-free, after that it's $1/transaction.

[ChouDoufu]

jfchandler:

yes. i did incur the 150 baht fee, which was shown on the atm receipt. my fidelity online account showed only a cash advance for the total amount

(including the atm fee) with no detail. visa apparently does not forward that information to fidelity. could be it gets lost after the currency conversion, which would

not happen in domestic transactions. it is supposedly automatic with domestic atm's. regardless, foreign atm fees are not reimbursed. you would not know this

from reading the information on the website, or from speaking with their online reps. the reference to domestic atm's is only in the customer account agreement,

where the only difference in wording is the addition of 'domestic' in front of 'atm fees.'

reading the gold card page (which i assume is where the rep got his info), you see * worldwide atm access and * atm fee reimbursements available (footnote).

the footnote says other institution atm's may assess fees, and tells which accounts are eligible for refund. then it specifically notes that the 1% foreign transaction

fee is not waived. no mention of foreign atm fees not being waived. if you want to find that limitation, you'll be spending quite a bit of time searching.

i don't know if the atm fee reversal is automatic in the states. this is the first time i've used the card.

i believe that the first five atm transactions per month are free. but it could be the first five transactions (atm, cash advance, card purchase) in total are free.

i'm not sure, and can't find that info just now. i'll only use the card once per month (at most) for cash advance, so no problem there.

[mcgriffith]

My head is swimming with all these arcane calculations.

I think I can venture one minor opinion here.

Taking small money out, with a foreign bank ATM card, from a Thai bank ATM....is a sucker deal.

A lot of people who think they are not being charged anything, don't realize that the banks are charging on the back end- they make their nut on the exchange rate (shaving off a few points) or at the end of the billing cycle, where the fees are buried (weeks after the transaction occurred).

Banks are not in the business of providing services for free. They make income one way or another. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[jfchandler]

Your statements below over-generalize a bit....

If someone uses a home bank debit card that has no fees (flat amount or percentage) to withdraw money from an AEON ATM in Thailand, you're going to get about as good a total exchange rate as it's possible to get thru any means.

The only approach that might be comparable would be a Thai bank counter charge against the same kind of home country debit card that has no fees.

Both of those approaches will yield an exchange rate very close to the Interbank Exchange Rate (IER), which is what banks charge each other when moving money, and is much better than the oft-quoted "Buying TT" rate you see at exchange booths and bank web sites.

If you know of any other approach that would yield a better total exchange rate, please enlighten the rest of us.

Using either of those two approaches I mention, a person would do better than

a] paying for an international wire transfer,

paying BKK Bank to do a U.S. to Thailand ACH transfer via it's New York branch,

c) anyone who uses a Thai bank that charges the 150 baht ATM fee,

d) anyone who uses a credit card to obtain a cash advance via the bank counter or ATM,

e) any kind of Paypal scheme

or f) better than traveler's cheques, which get a lower rate and have a per cheque fee..

It's up to the card user to be aware of the details of their bank account and associated debit card. Some banks do charge things like $5 per international transaction and 3% for anything done in a foreign currency. Other banks do not charge either of those kinds of fees. Some banks deduct the 1% VISA/MC network charge. Others don't.

If you're living in your home country, those things don't much matter. If you're living abroad, they can matter a great deal, making it worth people's time and money to know what kind of banking arrangements they have and shopping for the best deal to be had.

Taking small money out, with a foreign bank ATM card, from a Thai bank ATM....is a sucker deal.

A lot of people who think they are not being charged anything, don't realize that the banks are charging on the back end- they make their nut on the exchange rate (shaving off a few points) or at the end of the billing cycle, where the fees are buried (weeks after the transaction occurred).

Edited October 15, 2009 by jfchandler

[mcgriffith]

Fair enough.

I'll try an AEON ATM with both a BofA and HSBC ATM card, and see what I get.

[ChouDoufu]

the latest in the fidelity atm/cash advance saga:

it turns out that the immediate postings of those two transactions were just place-holder authorizations.

the authorizations were posted the day of the transaction 10/12

they now go away, to be replaced by transactions posted 10/14

the cash advance charge changed from 150.11 to 151.47

this works out to an exchange rate of 33.3333 which is approximately the closing exchange rate recorded 10/12,

whereas the authorization showed the real-time exchange rate.

the atm charge is unchanged at 154.61

i suspect this is because of the rep fiddling with it, and refunding the atm transaction fee.

[vagabond48]

Fair enough.

I'll try an AEON ATM with both a BofA and HSBC ATM card, and see what I get.

You will avoid the 150 baht but you will get hit by fees from BoA and HSBC IF they are not fee free cards.

If I didn't have fee free debit cards, I would withdraw my money using other free or least expensive methods.

Edited October 15, 2009 by vagabond48

[vagabond48]

I am curious, does anyone know if the US banks consider a debit card cash withdrawal via the bank teller counter, a ATM cash transaction, whether it is made by the teller swiping your card or strictly as a paper transaction, as described on this forum. If it is not, perhaps the US banks, that charge an ATM fee, would not.

Just a thought.

Edited October 15, 2009 by vagabond48

[jfchandler]

McG... respectfully... you're already failing Thailand banking 101, and you're not even a lap around the track yet.

AEON, no question, is the best deal going in Thailand for ATMs right now, because they are fee-free... But that's on the Thailand end of things.

On the U.S. end of things, Bank of America has got to be one of the WORST U.S. banks that anyone can try to use in Thailand. And I say that as a 20+ year customer of theirs... until I came to Thailand. You're going to be fee-free on the Thailand end, but you're going to get reamed on the U.S. end. So I don't want you to think I was recommending THAT kind of approach.

Last time I checked, BofA charges a 3% foreign currency fee on all international ATM withdrawals and a flat charge of something like $5 per ATM transaction. HSBC-U.S. isn't quite that bad, but they're close... I'm also a customer of theirs, again, back when I was in the U.S., but not after moving here. They may also have gone to the 3% international surcharge...but I haven't used them for the longest time...

If you live here in Thailand or spend a lot of time here, I'd seriously consider getting some better banking relationships on the U.S. end, if you can. Capital One, by comparison, is much better both for ATM and credit card use. Schwab Bank is great for their savings and checking accounts. And even E*Trade is very good, if you have a large enough combined balance to avoid their monthly account fee. For all of those, I mean they are good because they have little or no extra fees for international ATM use.

If you can't switch away from BofA for some reason, rather than relying on ATM use, for which BofA will kill you internationally, you might be better off using their relatively new capacity to do international wire transfers directly from their BofA online banking module. The fee to send money in U.S. $ to Thailand, if I recall correctly, is a flat $35. It's $25 if you have them do the exchange and send in Thai baht, which you don't want to do because BofA likewise will give you a lousy exchange rate. But if you had the capability to send large amounts not so often, doing that or doing a domestic ACH from BofA or HSBC to Bangkok Bank's New York Branch (if you have a BKK Bank account in Thailand) might be better alternatives.

Fair enough.

I'll try an AEON ATM with both a BofA and HSBC ATM card, and see what I get.

[jfchandler]

Dang Vagabond!!!... you keep asking questions that I don't know the answer to...

For this one, main reason is... ever since I moved to live in Thailand, I've never used a U.S. bank card here that charged me any kind of ATM fee... Nor have I done, as yet, any kind of Thai bank counter withdrawal...

But who knows... the day may be coming soon. Hope not...

I am curious, does anyone know if the US banks consider a debit card cash withdrawal via the bank teller counter, a ATM cash transaction, whether it is made by the teller swiping your card or strictly as a paper transaction, as described on this forum. If it is not, perhaps the US banks, that charge an ATM fee, would not. Just a thought.

[vagabond48]

Dang Vagabond!!!... you keep asking questions that I don't know the answer to...

jfc, aren't you the resident expert?

Got to keep you on your toes.

[jfchandler]

Indeed.... I'm just a traveler on the road of life...

I learn here, hopefully, the same like everyone else.

Some things we know... Some things...yet to learn...