House Construction Pitfalls (how To Avoid)

[Sheryl]

Hi Sheryl I am having a house built in Prachinburi at the moment the builder as not got as far as doing electrics yet but when he does I will see if he is any good if he is would you like me to get his telephone number for you or I could ask the the family if they know a good electrician but I would not guarantee they would know a what a good electrician was

Just as a suggestion could you not get a normal electrician to put an isolator switch in between the mains and you water heater (or would you not trust them to even do this for you) then you could play with the heater as much as you want safely

Ohhhh are you in for it!!!!! :D :D

By all means if you find a good electrician in the province let me know but I have scoured the province from on end to the other for over a decade and I really, really don't think there is one.

I strongly recommend that you bring in a Bangkok firm/contractor for the wiring and guarantee that while it will cost more initially it will be much cheaper than what you will otherwise pay in repairs, shorted out appliances etc, not to mention aggravation.

I would also recommend the same re the plumbing if you are wanting anything other than the typical rural Thai set up. For example, if you want a bath tub that you actually intend to take a bath in, otherwise they will install the tub OK but the plumbing will not be set uop to handle actually filling it with water (it is not unusual for Thais to buy a tub when they only intend to take showers apparently a status thing; there are some specific plumbing things that need to be done when it will be actually used as a bath which are automatriocally done in the west but would not be familiar to/occur to the average rural Thai contractor).

And if you'd like a description of all else that can go wrong that you will not know until later , PM me But the wiring & plumbing are the biggies

Nice to hear from another Prachin resident was beginning to think I was the only one!

[Sheryl]

Ohhhh are you in for it!!!!!

.... if you'd like a description of all else that can go wrong that you will not know until later , PM me But the wiring & plumbing are the biggies

Thanks for the advice I am in an all in price situation I guess not good but so far everything that I have asked to be done has been with no problems (other than language but we get there in the end) I am paying on work done so it had better be done correctly or he will not get paid he also knows that I am very fussy he is also a friend of the family and I have seen a couple of houses he has built in a western style they look OK we are not having a bath fittedso that is one problem out of the way

Off topic a bit as nothing to do with water heater but:

The all-in price arrangement is common and what I had, too. Big problem with that is they can increase profits by skimping on quality or qauntity of materials with effects that will not be evident right away, may even take years, so you will have already paid by then. As an example, they cut corners on the metal frames and hook thingies that hold the ceiling with result that it looked fine initially but about 5 years later ceilings collapsed in some rooms and proved on the verge of collapse in all the others. From what I gather it would have cost only a fraction of what the repairs did to have done it right in the first place. Not to mention the aggravation that the reinstallation of ceilings entailed.(It still hasn't been done in all rooms and looks like soon will have to be, so look foward to a ceiling thread ere too long... )

If I had to do it over again I would pay a supervisory engineer or firm independent of the contractor to oversee the work, even if it doubled the total price. At the very least and assuming unlike me you know enough about construction, watch their every move. And regardless I would urge you to get professional oversight on how they do the wiring. Even in Bkk and on big projects it is usually sub-standard.

[offset]

If I had to do it over again I would pay a supervisory engineer or firm independent of the contractor to oversee the work, even if it doubled the total price. At the very least and assuming unlike me you know enough about construction, watch their every move. And regardless I would urge you to get professional oversight on how they do the wiring. Even in Bkk and on big projects it is usually sub-standard.

How do you get an advisory engineer? if you were to trust him that much why no use him in the first place TIT I do not trust most Thai constructors,contractors or retailers and I put in as many safe guards as I can other than doing the work myself (which I cannot due to age and no visa) in the end you have to pay somebody to do the work but I always let them think that I know more than they do and what I do not know I know people that do so I can find out

[Sheryl]

How do you get an advisory engineer? if you were to trust him that much why no use him in the first place

The idea is to have someone separate and apart from the construction whose explicit responsibility is to guarantee its quality and, unlike the contractor, does not have a financial incentive to allow substandard materials or techniques. Among the types of things they do is to lcheck the quality of all materials purchased by the contractor and observe the mixing of cement etc. This is a standard practice in large scale projects and there are firms specializing specifically in it. The challenge would be to find one willing to take on a small residential assignment.

As this is both interesting and off the main thread topic I am moving it to its own thread.

[Sheryl]

Posts below began as an offshoot of a thread on a water heater issue.

[bangkokumpalumpa]

the first golden rule is DONT USE FAMILY a problem with the builder/plumber/electrician can fast turn into a problem with sleeping with your partner!!!!

it can also put your partner in a hard place, who do they listen to you or the "family expert" after all the common things seems to be that us farangs dont understand a thing we are white, that means in thailand that we dont do manual labour.

I find this a lot, white skin means an office worker, that is not a person that know how to pick up a welder of drive a boat, both of these things have been an issue in the past and I can tell you I have shocked the Thai's by doing both!!

so rule number one is dont use family

rule number 2 when the #@#@$ does hit the fan refer to the simple statement "who is paying for this??"

if you want it done a certin way then YOU CAN HAVE IT THAT WAY, just because you are in Thailand does not me you cant have what you want.

there is another factor that jumps to mind that will stress many, thais seem to stick together, this can make some mega hassels in a relationship. if a thai person says that a unit has to be done like this then you can expect your thai partner to be taking their side. you can find that you are put in a very tough position, but please remember its your house ect that you are building so you are teh one that has to live with it.

I have been a sub-contractor for decades and I have a simple rule, as long as it is safe then the client can have what they want, if the client wants me to do the job painted purple then as long as they are paying the right amount of money then I will paint myself purple.

that is what a sub-contractor is suppose to be like, they are the working hands for you, they are not the manager, they are not the owner, they are the employees.

if you are not locked into a contract then if you want kick them off site, dont stress there are always others out there that will do the work. doing construction should be fun, it should be your dream coming true before your eyes, it should NOT be a living hel_l !!!!!

now if you dont like the quality of the work then remember these words " Mai dee, Mai Professional" they will know that they have done a rough job and pulling them up on it will get results, if you dont then expect it to be pushed further!!

now in saying that Thai people can be great workers and they can do some fantastic quality.

how do you get that quality out of them????

be there, watch the work being done, question, then at the end of the day put on some beers!!!

at the start of the day turn up with some red bull.

every so often get something nice in for lunch sit down with them and have a laugh.

try to be one of the lads, it is worth it in the long run.

I live with Thais, I work with Thais, I work electric, I work fishing, I use to teach welding to thai construction crews. when it comes to workers I get on well with them and it pays off!!!

also remember that the average thai constuction worker is on a VERY LOW wage, that is a bonus for you, as you will proberly have a contract with the company for a "all in price" ok factor into your building budget some bonus money for the workers.

without been seen by others when you are happy with the work slip the person some notes, BUT DONT LET THE BOSS SEE!!! if the boss sees he will want his cut!!

what you will find is that they will want to make sure that the work is done well and that you are happy!

it is amazing what 100 baht and a bottle of red bull and a bottle of beer will get you in the way of quality workers!

just dont do it every day!!!!! only at the end of something, like the floor laid, the sink done, the wires instaled ect.

you can also tell the workers that if you are a very happy man when it is all done then you will give them a finishing bonus but if it is not good then they have to pay for your food and drink for a night, they will like that!!

remember dont be a "suit" be a person, sit down on the floor with them and have some food and drink. they will love you for it and pay you in quality!!!

[Rimmer]

Sorry I know where you are coming from but you are generalising,

Your Rule No.1 The exception disproves the rule. I used my wife's father as the main contractor on our house, the end product is superb, if you like I'll post some pics. The house is over 1000 square meters on 2 1/2 rai of land. No problems on the build, because I am paying the bills, I get exactly what I want, if it's not right take it out and do it again, one has to remember that there are two ways to do a job, the easy way and the correct way, after a few times of doing it the easy way and having to do it again and again they soon get the message and then it gets done correctly and the overrall quality of the build improves.

If your own standards are low then the quality of the build will be low

As for who is paying for the mistakes, of course I am, I'm supervising and if I was not on site when they laid the cement

up side down then it's my fault.

Agree you have to be there every minute of the working day but as for buying them beers, absolutely no way should you introduce alcohol on your building site, workers are binge drinkers, when they start they will not stop for two or three days.

At first I wanted to buy beer for the workers and my wife forbid it under pain of walking off the job, she knows only two well how their minds work. Plus residual hangovers and still drunk workers lead to accidents, that then costs you or me more money in hospital care, been there done that!

Generally they can do good work if encouraged but as for wiring and plumbing, as Sheryl says get someone in to do it who knows what they are doing.

Above all get the drawing right and the job will be right.

[bangkokumpalumpa]

ok this is an interesting post to address!!! this has got me a little worked up!!!!!

I will try not to be insulting, I will try to open your eyes a little to the Thai construction worker!

you say that I am generalising when I say dont use family. well you are one lucky man if you didnt have issues with your wife over the construction! it is better to be safe than sorry, it would be a sad day if you fell out with the wife and the family over building your dream house!!!!

ok lets talk about generalising

Quote

Agree you have to be there every minute of the working day but as for buying them beers, absolutely no way should you introduce alcohol on your building site, workers are binge drinkers, when they start they will not stop for two or three days.

At first I wanted to buy beer for the workers and my wife forbid it under pain of walking off the job, she knows only two well how their minds work. Plus residual hangovers and still drunk workers lead to accidents, that then costs you or me more money in hospital care, been there done that!

end quote

so how does a construction workers mind work????

work hard play hard? ohhh no it cant be that as that is a western thing!!!

enjoy a beer after a hard days work? ohh no it cant be that as that is a western thing!!!

ohhh hang on maybe they are just like us only they dont have the education that we have and they dont speak the same!!!

this would have to be one of the most insulting things you could say about construction workers!!!!

talk about generalising!!!!!

not all construction workers are binge drinkers and not all construction workers drink for two or three days!!!

that is like saying that all westerners in Thailand are here as sex tourists!!!

or like saying that all woman in thailand are on the game.

just because your wifes fathers crew are alcoholics does not mean that they are all alcoholics, lets be real here Thai people are social people, they enjoy sitting down and eating together and they enjoy a beer as a group.

I was not saying get them drunk, but a bottle of beer after a hard days work is not a bad thing!!! you will make more friends and get a better quality of work just the same as you would in a western world by buying a few beers for the lads!!!!

I have probery worked with more Thai construction workers than most western people in Thailand, after all I use to train them in welding, I also worked very closely with one crew, we would eat together and after work we would enjoy a drink together. it did not play a role in there work any more than it does in the western world!

as for introducing alcohol on to the building site, I agree that is not good, but after work and sitting down on the ground I dont class it as the building site, at that point it is just a place where we all sit eat and have a good laugh and maybe have a beer! after all most construction workers end up living on site in many places so for a short time it is there home before it is yours!

by saying that the Thai construction workers cannot drink, well you will be running the chance of having some very unhappy workers and unhappy workers do not do good work!!!!

please take the time to think about what you have written as I am a working man and spend my time in Thailand with working Thai men, I eat breat and live Thai, most Thai people say that I am more thai than Farang I take this as a complement coming from Thai people. the reason they say this is because I have taken the time to learn about Thai people and not judge them as a race but as individuals.

next you will say that all Thai electricians are bad at there work!!!

Try that one and I will introduce you to my business partner, you may be a little shocked at the quality of work as he would put most western electricians to shame, trust me on that one as I have worked many international contracts including surface to air missile systems!

dont judge a worker by the color of his skin or the job he does, judge him by the quality of work he does!!!

I hope this will give you something to think about and it was not ment to be insulting to you but your posting did wind me up a wee bit.

Peace

Marc

[bangkokumpalumpa]

well my last post here seems to have made this thread come to a screaming stop!!!

I would like to see more people posting advice or opinions for others. please dont let my rant stop a good thread

Marc

[Trex52]

well my last post here seems to have made this thread come to a screaming stop!!!

I would like to see more people posting advice or opinions for others. please dont let my rant stop a good thread

Marc

I agree....knowing how to work with people goes a long, long way. There are a few of us Farangs, that don't mind getting a wee bit sweaty or dirty. I was in construction trades back in the states for decades. I ended up building both commercially and custom residential. I know everything is done different here in LOS, but treating your work force with respect and a little libation everynow and then, would seem to go a long, long way. Cheers. Rik

[honey2000]

Just Curious....I have yet to see/hear any construction with earth wires. I have asked to see wiring plans at some proposed developments...never had any luck.

What is the story ? Thai Maintenance guy at work says earths are on the plans but not installed (too expensive)

I have had a ground run from my 5th floor condo to 1 metre copper rod buried in the earth, I guess it's been stolen though.

[honey2000]

posted twice..flaky TOT 'net

Edited November 29, 2009 by honey2000

[Bluetongue]

well my last post here seems to have made this thread come to a screaming stop!!!

I would like to see more people posting advice or opinions for others. please dont let my rant stop a good thread

Marc

I agree....knowing how to work with people goes a long, long way. There are a few of us Farangs, that don't mind getting a wee bit sweaty or dirty. I was in construction trades back in the states for decades. I ended up building both commercially and custom residential. I know everything is done different here in LOS, but treating your work force with respect and a little libation everynow and then, would seem to go a long, long way. Cheers. Rik

In Australia and elsewhere, I'm sure even some bosses big companies too put on beers for workers at the end of the day, not every day. My personal experience here so far extends to a very nice double garage which I'll admit is a comparitively easy construction job but I wanted to test the capacity a bit first before starting the house. When the concreting had to be done I chipped in and I didn't spare the sweet drinks through the day, or worry about someone having a smoke. I got a really good job done probably about 10 hour days for about 200. The bonus was I found it to be a really good way of getting to know some local people and learn a bit of Thai and some new tricks at the same time. And yes I had to pull them up a couple of times and say do it again. I'd have to say the most frustrating thing was debating the materiel requirements with them. There had to be this vociferous debate about every purchase and a great tendency to underestimate the requirements due in part at least to lack of arithmetical skills, for instance figuring out the number of bricks required or sheets of galvo. So a couple of times I had to go and order more stuff as my wife tended to side with them and she did the ordering.

i would be interested to hear from others if it is standard practice from the delivery truck drivers to offer discounted extras such as wood or bricks, all three which came here had something to offer and I bought it usually because it wont go to waste in the end, but in future I wonder whether I should underorder