Buying Property In Pattaya

[prefabs]

41 out of 91 posts by Benchmark, the estate agent guru of Pattaya. And maybe a few more from his other TV names and/or pals.

Kinda gets boring after a while. Especially hackneyed old phrases like "property of your desire" and "luxury lifestyle", right out of the "Real Estate For Dummies" handbook.

Who are you kidding? Might I also say a sponsor's right to advertise for ( by way of posts and for free) is surely being sorely tested here.

[benchmark]

41 out of 91 posts by Benchmark, the estate agent guru of Pattaya. And maybe a few more from his other TV names and/or pals.

Kinda gets boring after a while. Especially hackneyed old phrases like "property of your desire" and "luxury lifestyle", right out of the "Real Estate For Dummies" handbook.

Who are you kidding? Might I also say a sponsor's right to advertise for ( by way of posts and for free) is surely being sorely tested here.

Seems like you need some proof. Read the news published in the Thai Visa website below.

5% of UK expats names Thailand as retirement destination

Only 13 per cent of UK expats intend to retire in the UK, and 5 per cent of all surveyed plan to spend the retirement in Thailand, according to a recent study by Alliance & Leicester International.

In the report obtained by The Nation, 400,000, UK expats are voting with their feet and choosing to retire abroad according to findings from Alliance & Leicester International (ALIL). France (18 per cent) is the most popular retirement destination for expats followed by Spain (13 per cent) and then the UK (12 per cent).

However, while 88 per cent of expats intend to retire abroad, access to UK based family and friends still appears to be important with 57 per cent intending to retire in Europe. Indeed, 10 per cent of expats cited being away from family and friends as a major barrier to retiring outside the UK.

Further afield, Thailand (5 per cent), the US (4 per cent) and New Zealand (3 per cent) are all potential retiree destinations. Expats intend to fund their new lives in the sun through a variety of methods including savings (27 per cent), UK State Pension (23 per cent) and private pensions (20 per cent). Property is a big source of retirement funding for expats with 6 per cent relying on rental income, 6 per cent intending to sell a residential investment and 2 per cent planning to take out an equity release plan.

When considering the key factors that contribute to the chosen retirement destination, better quality of life was voted top (21 per cent). Better weather came second (20 per cent) and value for money third (14 per cent).

However the expats, who intend to retire abroad, do have some concerns about retiring in another country. The quality of medical facilities and dealing with general medical issues - potentially in a foreign language - was the biggest worry for 1 in 5 expats (22 per cent).

Finances were also a concern with 13 per cent worrying about exchange rates and 12 per cent concerned about having sufficient money to survive. Frailty was also a concern with 14 per cent of women citing this as a worry compared to just 10 per cent of men.

Lynette Byrne, Head of Marketing at Alliance & Leicester International, said "It is interesting to see that many UK expats have settled in their new home, with 87 per cent of UK Expats intending to retire abroad.

"However, while some Expats might prefer life outside the UK, they are still very attached to friends and family thus settling in European destinations that are only a low cost flight away.

"This research really highlights the international nature of society today and raises some interesting questions as to how people are going to manage their finances and protect their savings against interest rate fluctuations.

"Expats who bank with Alliance & Leicester International can choose to hold their savings in a Sterling, US Dollar or Euro account giving them not only access to 'Best Buy rates but also the opportunity to shield their retirement cash from currency fluctuations. They can also be safe in the knowledge that they can access their money using internet banking 24 hours a day no matter where they are living.

[prefabs]

Sorry mate, you miss the point. I have property here and am about to build again.

My point is that you are using TV as a private advertising operation which has me(for one) bored out of his skull. Your most recent post completely misses that point. Soon as you becae a sponsor, you opened up with all guns blazing on 3 or 4 similar posts. Give it a rest, will you. A few more sponsors like you would soon kill TV off

And you don't half go on, do you?

[johnnyk]

I must say something that is really positive about Thailand. That is Thai people and their hospitality. This is what makes most people come back to this wonderful country. This is the reason why people fall in love with this country. There are always a few exceptions but overall Thai people are a huge selling point for Thailand and they are genuine. This is the reason why most people want to buy a second home or a home here despite of all other challenges. The bottom line is you can have a luxury lifestyle here that you can't have in the west for a fraction of the cost. Same applies to buying property. And warm hospitality of Thai people so people will not stop coming here or stop buying here because Thai people have always retained their hospitality and warmth for all foreigners.

I must confess that I treat everyone with dignity and respect and it has had a very odd effect in Thailand, I am treated in the same way.

However I also note that some farangs treate Thai people like shit, and as a result seem to be very confused, they don't seem to get a level of respect in return.

Strange, that. I've noticed the same thing. Loud, belligerent drunks not getting any respect, not even a smile from those ungrateful Thais.

[eljeque]

Mr. Benchmark,

from your above post # 79

"My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

Can you rewrite this for me. The two sentences should not be together. I think that you are stating that the building is in a good state of repair, well-maintained, good occupancy, etc., correct?

[johng]

It is not possible to own land or property in Thailand. Start from that premise. Then listen to the myriad of ifs and buts and contradictions spouted to have you part with your money.

The company bit is the most transparent nonsense they ever utter. It's full of holes and when the day comes to reclaim illegally properties in Pattaya this will be the first port of call. All those big flash places that thumb their noses to the Thais will be seized oevr night. Thais are anti-foreigner enough without having their zenophobia whipped up by flash farangs now driving all manner of exotic sports cars which they park on their private drives. How are Thais with their back sides hanging out of their threadbare pants expected to react? And such flash houses are built on sand; literally and metaphorically.

Rent it. Have a problem? Move. Buy it and you'll never sell it.

Agree mostly with loquent on this...

except that you can own property ( house, condo ) but not the land it sits on !!!!

kinda same same but different.

[benchmark]

Mr. Benchmark,

from your above post # 79

"My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

Can you rewrite this for me. The two sentences should not be together. I think that you are stating that the building is in a good state of repair, well-maintained, good occupancy, etc., correct?

I think you misunderstood the statement. The prices dropped because of the affects of the global recession and the low demand for hi-end properties as a result of that. This is unquestionably a prime condo building in Pattaya which has always maintained it's reputation. So before the prices start to climb up again it is a right time to get a good bargain in a building like this at this moment. It's a condo building so no ownership issues either. Hope I clarified things for you.

[benchmark]

It is not possible to own land or property in Thailand. Start from that premise. Then listen to the myriad of ifs and buts and contradictions spouted to have you part with your money.

The company bit is the most transparent nonsense they ever utter. It's full of holes and when the day comes to reclaim illegally properties in Pattaya this will be the first port of call. All those big flash places that thumb their noses to the Thais will be seized oevr night. Thais are anti-foreigner enough without having their zenophobia whipped up by flash farangs now driving all manner of exotic sports cars which they park on their private drives. How are Thais with their back sides hanging out of their threadbare pants expected to react? And such flash houses are built on sand; literally and metaphorically.

Rent it. Have a problem? Move. Buy it and you'll never sell it.

Agree mostly with loquent on this...

except that you can own property ( house, condo ) but not the land it sits on !!!!

kinda same same but different.

But how ever all this talk is up to now just speculation isn't it? I think some foreigners are just overreacting. Over the last few days my phone has started to ring without a break for property (house) buying inquiries. Like I mentioned before people who have fallen in love with the country haven't stop buying here. I completely agree that the Thai government should be more foreigner friendly when it comes to property ownership but there are some things we can change and some we can't.

The market has started to show positive signs. I don't know how long it will remain. I even have serious inquiry from a retired foreigner to buy a million dollar property (house) here in Pattaya. Most of the inquiries I have in the last few days are for buying houses.

Edited December 8, 2009 by benchmark

[donx]

But how ever all this talk is up to now just speculation isn't it? I think some foreigners are just overreacting. Over the last few days my phone has started to ring without a break for property (house) buying inquiries. Like I mentioned before people who have fallen in love with the country haven't stop buying here. I completely agree that the Thai government should be more foreigner friendly when it comes to property ownership but there are some things we can change and some we can't.

The market has started to show positive signs. I don't know how long it will remain. I even have serious inquiry from a retired foreigner to buy a million dollar property (house) here in Pattaya. Most of the inquiries I have in the last few days are for buying houses.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office?

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used?

EDIT: I forgot the most obvious method of foreign land ownership - via a Thai spouse/partner.

Edited December 8, 2009 by donx

[benchmark]

But how ever all this talk is up to now just speculation isn't it? I think some foreigners are just overreacting. Over the last few days my phone has started to ring without a break for property (house) buying inquiries. Like I mentioned before people who have fallen in love with the country haven't stop buying here. I completely agree that the Thai government should be more foreigner friendly when it comes to property ownership but there are some things we can change and some we can't.

The market has started to show positive signs. I don't know how long it will remain. I even have serious inquiry from a retired foreigner to buy a million dollar property (house) here in Pattaya. Most of the inquiries I have in the last few days are for buying houses.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office?

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used?

EDIT: I forgot the most obvious method of foreign land ownership - via a Thai spouse/partner.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office? All 3 methods are being used at the moment but Limited Liability Company still the most popular. We are not a law firm and we don't give legal advice to clients although we provide some basic guidelines initially. We refer our clients to our corporate lawyer Siam Legal Company.

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used? Yes, a few. The ownership methods are via a Thai partner & Limited liability company ownership (I prefer not to expose my sales figures in open forums)

[prefabs]

But how ever all this talk is up to now just speculation isn't it? I think some foreigners are just overreacting. Over the last few days my phone has started to ring without a break for property (house) buying inquiries. Like I mentioned before people who have fallen in love with the country haven't stop buying here. I completely agree that the Thai government should be more foreigner friendly when it comes to property ownership but there are some things we can change and some we can't.

The market has started to show positive signs. I don't know how long it will remain. I even have serious inquiry from a retired foreigner to buy a million dollar property (house) here in Pattaya. Most of the inquiries I have in the last few days are for buying houses.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office?

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used?

EDIT: I forgot the most obvious method of foreign land ownership - via a Thai spouse/partner.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office? All 3 methods are being used at the moment but Limited Liability Company still the most popular. We are not a law firm and we don't give legal advice to clients although we provide some basic guidelines initially. We refer our clients to our corporate lawyer Siam Legal Company.

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used? Yes, a few. The ownership methods are via a Thai partner & Limited liability company ownership (I prefer not to expose my sales figures in open forums)

Still talking realestateagentspeak. Which is normally built on fibs. Your "Corporate Lawyer" Who you kidding?

Don't want to disclose your sales figures, we understand that. Don't want the big boys making a buyout. Fair enough, but most of us can put a guess on anywhere between zero and very little

[benchmark]

But how ever all this talk is up to now just speculation isn't it? I think some foreigners are just overreacting. Over the last few days my phone has started to ring without a break for property (house) buying inquiries. Like I mentioned before people who have fallen in love with the country haven't stop buying here. I completely agree that the Thai government should be more foreigner friendly when it comes to property ownership but there are some things we can change and some we can't.

The market has started to show positive signs. I don't know how long it will remain. I even have serious inquiry from a retired foreigner to buy a million dollar property (house) here in Pattaya. Most of the inquiries I have in the last few days are for buying houses.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office?

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used?

EDIT: I forgot the most obvious method of foreign land ownership - via a Thai spouse/partner.

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office? All 3 methods are being used at the moment but Limited Liability Company still the most popular. We are not a law firm and we don't give legal advice to clients although we provide some basic guidelines initially. We refer our clients to our corporate lawyer Siam Legal Company.

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used? Yes, a few. The ownership methods are via a Thai partner & Limited liability company ownership (I prefer not to expose my sales figures in open forums)

Still talking realestateagentspeak. Which is normally built on fibs. Your "Corporate Lawyer" Who you kidding?

Don't want to disclose your sales figures, we understand that. Don't want the big boys making a buyout. Fair enough, but most of us can put a guess on anywhere between zero and very little

Seems like your business is suffering my friend. Sorry can't help you there. I have seen many like you here in Pattaya so no surprise. I think you need to learn to put space between words before lecturing others.

[pkrv]

I must say something that is really positive about Thailand. That is Thai people and their hospitality. This is what makes most people come back to this wonderful country. This is the reason why people fall in love with this country. There are always a few exceptions but overall Thai people are a huge selling point for Thailand and they are genuine. This is the reason why most people want to buy a second home or a home here despite of all other challenges. The bottom line is you can have a luxury lifestyle here that you can't have in the west for a fraction of the cost. Same applies to buying property. And warm hospitality of Thai people so people will not stop coming here or stop buying here because Thai people have always retained their hospitality and warmth for all foreigners.

I must confess that I treat everyone with dignity and respect and it has had a very odd effect in Thailand, I am treated in the same way.

However I also note that some farangs treate Thai people like shit, and as a result seem to be very confused, they don't seem to get a level of respect in return.

Strange, that. I've noticed the same thing. Loud, belligerent drunks not getting any respect, not even a smile from those ungrateful Thais.

Yeh, I sort of came to an odd conclusion, that sort of just pissing people off, is sort of counter productive. Don't know.

But then again you can paradoxically counter

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."

- Herm Albright

[benchmark]

I must say something that is really positive about Thailand. That is Thai people and their hospitality. This is what makes most people come back to this wonderful country. This is the reason why people fall in love with this country. There are always a few exceptions but overall Thai people are a huge selling point for Thailand and they are genuine. This is the reason why most people want to buy a second home or a home here despite of all other challenges. The bottom line is you can have a luxury lifestyle here that you can't have in the west for a fraction of the cost. Same applies to buying property. And warm hospitality of Thai people so people will not stop coming here or stop buying here because Thai people have always retained their hospitality and warmth for all foreigners.

I must confess that I treat everyone with dignity and respect and it has had a very odd effect in Thailand, I am treated in the same way.

However I also note that some farangs treate Thai people like shit, and as a result seem to be very confused, they don't seem to get a level of respect in return.

Strange, that. I've noticed the same thing. Loud, belligerent drunks not getting any respect, not even a smile from those ungrateful Thais.

Yeh, I sort of came to an odd conclusion, that sort of just pissing people off, is sort of counter productive. Don't know.

But then again you can paradoxically counter

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."

- Herm Albright

No matter what stay positive. Being negative and being around negative won't generate any productivity at all.

Be optimistic but don't be over optimistic......................................

Edited December 9, 2009 by benchmark

[donx]

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office? All 3 methods are being used at the moment but Limited Liability Company still the most popular. We are not a law firm and we don't give legal advice to clients although we provide some basic guidelines initially. We refer our clients to our corporate lawyer Siam Legal Company.

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used? Yes, a few. The ownership methods are via a Thai partner & Limited liability company ownership (I prefer not to expose my sales figures in open forums)

Thank you benchmark for your reply. I took the liberty of putting your responses to my questions in bold to make it easier for others to read.

One last question if you don't mind answering - do you find that most of the people calling you are already familiar with the restrictions placed on foreigners owning real estate in Thailand or do you find that most of them are unaware of these restrictions?

[benchmark]

So what method of ownership are these people that are calling you going to use to purchase these houses? 30 year lease? Usufruct? Thai limited company? Are you helping them with the legal constructs or are you referring them to some law office? All 3 methods are being used at the moment but Limited Liability Company still the most popular. We are not a law firm and we don't give legal advice to clients although we provide some basic guidelines initially. We refer our clients to our corporate lawyer Siam Legal Company.

You are getting calls for houses because they are cheap relative to the price of a comparably equipped condo. But once you tell them they can't actually own the land are they buying? Have you actually sold any houses recently? If so, how many and what ownership method was used? Yes, a few. The ownership methods are via a Thai partner & Limited liability company ownership (I prefer not to expose my sales figures in open forums)

Thank you benchmark for your reply. I took the liberty of putting your responses to my questions in bold to make it easier for others to read.

One last question if you don't mind answering - do you find that most of the people calling you are already familiar with the restrictions placed on foreigners owning real estate in Thailand or do you find that most of them are unaware of these restrictions?

Yes, always happy to answer a question from a gentleman.

Anyway majority of the calls are from Thai buyers who have a relationship with a foreigner as it is common here in Pattaya. IMO I think most of them or all of them know these restrictions.

Sometimes I wonder because some of my colleagues don't get the same amount of inquiries I have. Reason could be be the difference in our marketing strategies. How ever I know that most my colleagues have started to get reasonably good business.

Most of us think that the property market will start to recover in a year or two. IMO Pattaya's good times are yet to come but honestly I am optimistic but not over optimistic as I have been here for the last 10 years. I have seen the rapid growth of this city over the years which still continues to grow.

Edited December 10, 2009 by benchmark

[Pakboong]

Mr. Benchmark,

from your above post # 79

"My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

Can you rewrite this for me. The two sentences should not be together. I think that you are stating that the building is in a good state of repair, well-maintained, good occupancy, etc., correct?

I think you misunderstood the statement. The prices dropped because of the affects of the global recession and the low demand for hi-end properties as a result of that. This is unquestionably a prime condo building in Pattaya which has always maintained it's reputation. So before the prices start to climb up again it is a right time to get a good bargain in a building like this at this moment. It's a condo building so no ownership issues either. Hope I clarified things for you.

There is very little evidence that housing prices will climb. Most evidence suggests the opposite. That may a problem with using you as an agent; your logic, at least to me, does not seem to be reality based. We all realize that you will represent the seller but please try to keep it real.

[prefabs]

Mr. Benchmark,

from your above post # 79

"My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

Can you rewrite this for me. The two sentences should not be together. I think that you are stating that the building is in a good state of repair, well-maintained, good occupancy, etc., correct?

I think you misunderstood the statement. The prices dropped because of the affects of the global recession and the low demand for hi-end properties as a result of that. This is unquestionably a prime condo building in Pattaya which has always maintained it's reputation. So before the prices start to climb up again it is a right time to get a good bargain in a building like this at this moment. It's a condo building so no ownership issues either. Hope I clarified things for you.

There is very little evidence that housing prices will climb. Most evidence suggests the opposite. That may a problem with using you as an agent; your logic, at least to me, does not seem to be reality based. We all realize that you will represent the seller but please try to keep it real.

Keeping it real would be impossible for him and his like. Liars and Crooks are allowed to proliferate in the Real Estate World. It is not the same world as we inhabit

[pkrv]

Given I did ask the question perhaps I should comment - I too noticed

"My recommendation to you is "My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

So I PM'ed benchmark and asked a few questions. I lived overseas for much of my childhood and saw some very strange interpretations of language and learned to spot this and I recognised this pattern in Benchmarks posts.

Benchmarks English is actually excellent but it is not his first language.

I automatically reinterpreted that he meant (and after my own research concluded) - Prices have fallen within the Royal Cliff garden Condominium complex, but it is holding up better than most, as demonstrated by the occupancy level and scarcity of units.

To me the contradiction said it all. However I would have confirmed my interpretation, if I was considering buying. Sometimes things can work to your advantage.

Edited December 14, 2009 by pkrv

[Pakboong]

Mr. Benchmark,

from your above post # 79

"My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

Can you rewrite this for me. The two sentences should not be together. I think that you are stating that the building is in a good state of repair, well-maintained, good occupancy, etc., correct?

I think you misunderstood the statement. The prices dropped because of the affects of the global recession and the low demand for hi-end properties as a result of that. This is unquestionably a prime condo building in Pattaya which has always maintained it's reputation. So before the prices start to climb up again it is a right time to get a good bargain in a building like this at this moment. It's a condo building so no ownership issues either. Hope I clarified things for you.

There is very little evidence that housing prices will climb. Most evidence suggests the opposite. That may a problem with using you as an agent; your logic, at least to me, does not seem to be reality based. We all realize that you will represent the seller but please try to keep it real.

Keeping it real would be impossible for him and his like. Liars and Crooks are allowed to proliferate in the Real Estate World. It is not the same world as we inhabit

Keeping it real to me is simply recognizing that the world-wide bubble of the last decade is not likely to occur again in most of our lifetimes. It will likely be a buyer's market for quite some time. To suggest otherwise is not being optimistic, it is IMO being foolish. The experienced may still do okay in this next market but those like myself who know little about the buying/ selling process, may well be better off renting. I have, in the past made money in real estate, only because of the market forces, not my own expertise. I bought when I arrived and sold when I departed. Nothing magical about it. I knew little and got away with it.

[trogers]

Keeping it real to me is simply recognizing that the world-wide bubble of the last decade is not likely to occur again in most of our lifetimes. It will likely be a buyer's market for quite some time. To suggest otherwise is not being optimistic, it is IMO being foolish. The experienced may still do okay in this next market but those like myself who know little about the buying/ selling process, may well be better off renting. I have, in the past made money in real estate, only because of the market forces, not my own expertise. I bought when I arrived and sold when I departed. Nothing magical about it. I knew little and got away with it.

This song is sang after every burst bubble since the early '80s. And still another bubble is just over the horizon. Human greed knows no bound.

[LivinLOS]

Keeping it real to me is simply recognizing that the world-wide bubble of the last decade is not likely to occur again in most of our lifetimes. It will likely be a buyer's market for quite some time. To suggest otherwise is not being optimistic, it is IMO being foolish. The experienced may still do okay in this next market but those like myself who know little about the buying/ selling process, may well be better off renting. I have, in the past made money in real estate, only because of the market forces, not my own expertise. I bought when I arrived and sold when I departed. Nothing magical about it. I knew little and got away with it.

This song is sang after every burst bubble since the early '80s. And still another bubble is just over the horizon. Human greed knows no bound.

Ahh but increased money supply and debt loads have been the providers of the capital to inflate those bubbles.. Now we are at a tipping point where that can no longer safely continue.

[pkrv]

Births, Marriages and Deaths. Life goes on.

[benchmark]

Mr. Benchmark,

from your above post # 79

"My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

Can you rewrite this for me. The two sentences should not be together. I think that you are stating that the building is in a good state of repair, well-maintained, good occupancy, etc., correct?

I think you misunderstood the statement. The prices dropped because of the affects of the global recession and the low demand for hi-end properties as a result of that. This is unquestionably a prime condo building in Pattaya which has always maintained it's reputation. So before the prices start to climb up again it is a right time to get a good bargain in a building like this at this moment. It's a condo building so no ownership issues either. Hope I clarified things for you.

There is very little evidence that housing prices will climb. Most evidence suggests the opposite. That may a problem with using you as an agent; your logic, at least to me, does not seem to be reality based. We all realize that you will represent the seller but please try to keep it real.

I have only one answer to you.

"Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful"

Probably you know who said this, it's not me he is the most successful man in the investment business world, Warren Buffett.

It's a question of whether you want to buy 1. In a buyer's market or 2. In a sellers market

As simple as that.

[benchmark]

Given I did ask the question perhaps I should comment - I too noticed

"My recommendation to you is "My recommendation to you is Royal Cliff garden Condominium. For around 14M or 15 M you can find a good unit now. The prices in this building were much higher few years ago. One of the few buildings in Pattaya over the last few years retained it's value and rental potential."

So I PM'ed benchmark and asked a few questions. I lived overseas for much of my childhood and saw some very strange interpretations of language and learned to spot this and I recognised this pattern in Benchmarks posts.

Benchmarks English is actually excellent but it is not his first language.

I automatically reinterpreted that he meant (and after my own research concluded) - Prices have fallen within the Royal Cliff garden Condominium complex, but it is holding up better than most, as demonstrated by the occupancy level and scarcity of units.

To me the contradiction said it all. However I would have confirmed my interpretation, if I was considering buying. Sometimes things can work to your advantage.

Thanks a lot PK. Your reinterpretation is absolutely correct. It's a proven fact that RCG is one of the few buildings that had a healthy capital growth over the years. There are many owners I personally know who made good profits buying and selling there. RCG's unique location and the design and build of the compound is a strong reason behind this.

Edited December 15, 2009 by benchmark

[sned]

Im just about to jump in at the deep end and buy a two storey house off plan at SP5. My main concern when searching for a suitable property was security, and I believe this village has what I need. I have been searching for a suitable place for almost 2 years now, I want to get it right first time as I kind of realise that it may take some doing if I want to sell it again for whatever reason, live happily ever after and all that. Its become a bit of a hobby, there's so much out there it makes you dizzy. There's always something slightly better around the next corner. So now im becoming impatient with all the searching and hopefully SP5 will work out for me and my young family. There will always be folk out there that say renting is the smarter direction to go in, I completely agree, but there is something about owning your own home which your heart will always over-rule your head.

Im no expert on property and dont profess to be, but there's one thing I have learned over my searching experience, dont listen to the agent, broker, seller or whoever is trying to financially gain from you. For me they had the key to the door to allow me to enter and make up my own mind. Just to be clear im not an investor, just looking to buy property to live out the rest of my life. So with that said I know my personal budget, I am armed with exactly the specifications I need for a home, I have a good inspection/walk around, you kind of get a good feeling within minutes of wandering around a property which is very close to what you want. Nearly there, then bring the key holder (agent, owner etc) to your presence, they wont be far away. At this point you have probably concluded that everything is perfect and in place to move to the next level, it may take several visits to get to this stage. "whats the lowest possible price you will sell for cash?". The amount obviously that you want to hear is below your budget, if not you have to make attempts to get it under or walk away. Walking away is an art form and is a very important part of the process, you have to mumble your budget as you retreat, lower your head, lift up your daughter (or son if you have one) and softly speak words of defeat to your better half "dont worry tirak there will be others". Now this may sound cheezy but this if done correctly will bring the true(ish) value from the seller/shark. If it doesnt you know its beyond your budget anyway. This part I love and is sooo addictive. You will be amazed how much some people will come down. Sometimes its actually worrying and puts you off.

Pattaya is full of excellent housing opportunities, east and west. I have been everywhere, but, there is only a very small percentage that would suit my needs. This is why you need to get out there on your scooter, car, foot whatever and see for yourself, there's for sale signs everywhere. Sellers/Estate agents are on their knees in front of you at the moment (steady). Forget the sharks/estate agents they usually take you to areas that are not suitable more times than not and it just puts you off the idea. Everybody knows inside themselves exactly what they want, draw a picture in your head and put a price on it, this is all you need. When this is combined with reality, bingo.

Before I go on my merry way can I just share one of my experiences with prospective house hunters. Silk Road on the east side of the Suk. This village IMO is beautiful. Had everything I wanted, I was so excited about it, maybe I let the cat out of the bag too early. This was a while back so relatively inexperienced with my house buying poker face. How can the sales manager make thing go so wrong so quickly. If I remember correctly, according to the brochure the house I liked was 6.5M or something, within half an hour or so the sales geezer had it at 11M !!!!!! You have to go here to kick of your house hunting, its so funny but is a good indication of how sellers, agent, salesmen etc will prey on the weak. Stick to your guns.

I love Pattaya and I love house hunting, I dont love estate agents though, sorry Im sure there is some good in you somewhere but unfortunately its not reserved for us prospective house owners in Pattaya.

Merry Christmas and a gid new year tae ye aw'

[sned]

Im just about to jump in at the deep end and buy a two storey house off plan at SP5. My main concern when searching for a suitable property was security, and I believe this village has what I need. I have been searching for a suitable place for almost 2 years now, I want to get it right first time as I kind of realise that it may take some doing if I want to sell it again for whatever reason, live happily ever after and all that. Its become a bit of a hobby, there's so much out there it makes you dizzy. There's always something slightly better around the next corner. So now im becoming impatient with all the searching and hopefully SP5 will work out for me and my young family. There will always be folk out there that say renting is the smarter direction to go in, I completely agree, but there is something about owning your own home which your heart will always over-rule your head.

Im no expert on property and dont profess to be, but there's one thing I have learned over my searching experience, dont listen to the agent, broker, seller or whoever is trying to financially gain from you. For me they had the key to the door to allow me to enter and make up my own mind. Just to be clear im not an investor, just looking to buy property to live out the rest of my life. So with that said I know my personal budget, I am armed with exactly the specifications I need for a home, I have a good inspection/walk around, you kind of get a good feeling within minutes of wandering around a property which is very close to what you want. Nearly there, then bring the key holder (agent, owner etc) to your presence, they wont be far away. At this point you have probably concluded that everything is perfect and in place to move to the next level, it may take several visits to get to this stage. "whats the lowest possible price you will sell for cash?". The amount obviously that you want to hear is below your budget, if not you have to make attempts to get it under or walk away. Walking away is an art form and is a very important part of the process, you have to mumble your budget as you retreat, lower your head, lift up your daughter (or son if you have one) and softly speak words of defeat to your better half "dont worry tirak there will be others". Now this may sound cheezy but this if done correctly will bring the true(ish) value from the seller/shark. If it doesnt you know its beyond your budget anyway. This part I love and is sooo addictive. You will be amazed how much some people will come down. Sometimes its actually worrying and puts you off.

Pattaya is full of excellent housing opportunities, east and west. I have been everywhere, but, there is only a very small percentage that would suit my needs. This is why you need to get out there on your scooter, car, foot whatever and see for yourself, there's for sale signs everywhere. Sellers/Estate agents are on their knees in front of you at the moment (steady). Forget the sharks/estate agents they usually take you to areas that are not suitable more times than not and it just puts you off the idea. Everybody knows inside themselves exactly what they want, draw a picture in your head and put a price on it, this is all you need. When this is combined with reality, bingo.

Before I go on my merry way can I just share one of my experiences with prospective house hunters. Silk Road on the east side of the Suk. This village IMO is beautiful. Had everything I wanted, I was so excited about it, maybe I let the cat out of the bag too early. This was a while back so relatively inexperienced with my house buying poker face. How can the sales manager make thing go so wrong so quickly. If I remember correctly, according to the brochure the house I liked was 6.5M or something, within half an hour or so the sales geezer had it at 11M !!!!!! You have to go here to kick of your house hunting, its so funny but is a good indication of how sellers, agent, salesmen etc will prey on the weak. Stick to your guns.

I love Pattaya and I love house hunting, I dont love estate agents though, sorry Im sure there is some good in you somewhere but unfortunately its not reserved for us prospective house owners in Pattaya.

Merry Christmas and a gid new year tae ye aw'

[sned]

oops

Edited December 15, 2009 by sned

[stgrhe]

Before I go on my merry way can I just share one of my experiences with prospective house hunters. Silk Road on the east side of the Suk. This village IMO is beautiful. Had everything I wanted, I was so excited about it, maybe I let the cat out of the bag too early. This was a while back so relatively inexperienced with my house buying poker face. How can the sales manager make thing go so wrong so quickly. If I remember correctly, according to the brochure the house I liked was 6.5M or something, within half an hour or so the sales geezer had it at 11M !!!!!! You have to go here to kick of your house hunting, its so funny but is a good indication of how sellers, agent, salesmen etc will prey on the weak.

Last year I too had a serious look at the Silk Road and I too liked what I saw until I started to inspect the houses that were still under construction. The found the quality for that development to be more on the cosmetic side and with too many short cuts being made on the structure.

We must also have come across the same sales man because when I started to ask too many difficult (for him that is) technical questions, he showed clear sign of aggression. I think the prices for the Silk Road houses are too much inflated.

[benchmark]

Im just about to jump in at the deep end and buy a two storey house off plan at SP5. My main concern when searching for a suitable property was security, and I believe this village has what I need. I have been searching for a suitable place for almost 2 years now, I want to get it right first time as I kind of realise that it may take some doing if I want to sell it again for whatever reason, live happily ever after and all that. Its become a bit of a hobby, there's so much out there it makes you dizzy. There's always something slightly better around the next corner. So now im becoming impatient with all the searching and hopefully SP5 will work out for me and my young family. There will always be folk out there that say renting is the smarter direction to go in, I completely agree, but there is something about owning your own home which your heart will always over-rule your head.

Im no expert on property and dont profess to be, but there's one thing I have learned over my searching experience, dont listen to the agent, broker, seller or whoever is trying to financially gain from you. For me they had the key to the door to allow me to enter and make up my own mind. Just to be clear im not an investor, just looking to buy property to live out the rest of my life. So with that said I know my personal budget, I am armed with exactly the specifications I need for a home, I have a good inspection/walk around, you kind of get a good feeling within minutes of wandering around a property which is very close to what you want. Nearly there, then bring the key holder (agent, owner etc) to your presence, they wont be far away. At this point you have probably concluded that everything is perfect and in place to move to the next level, it may take several visits to get to this stage. "whats the lowest possible price you will sell for cash?". The amount obviously that you want to hear is below your budget, if not you have to make attempts to get it under or walk away. Walking away is an art form and is a very important part of the process, you have to mumble your budget as you retreat, lower your head, lift up your daughter (or son if you have one) and softly speak words of defeat to your better half "dont worry tirak there will be others". Now this may sound cheezy but this if done correctly will bring the true(ish) value from the seller/shark. If it doesnt you know its beyond your budget anyway. This part I love and is sooo addictive. You will be amazed how much some people will come down. Sometimes its actually worrying and puts you off.

Pattaya is full of excellent housing opportunities, east and west. I have been everywhere, but, there is only a very small percentage that would suit my needs. This is why you need to get out there on your scooter, car, foot whatever and see for yourself, there's for sale signs everywhere. Sellers/Estate agents are on their knees in front of you at the moment (steady). Forget the sharks/estate agents they usually take you to areas that are not suitable more times than not and it just puts you off the idea. Everybody knows inside themselves exactly what they want, draw a picture in your head and put a price on it, this is all you need. When this is combined with reality, bingo.

Before I go on my merry way can I just share one of my experiences with prospective house hunters. Silk Road on the east side of the Suk. This village IMO is beautiful. Had everything I wanted, I was so excited about it, maybe I let the cat out of the bag too early. This was a while back so relatively inexperienced with my house buying poker face. How can the sales manager make thing go so wrong so quickly. If I remember correctly, according to the brochure the house I liked was 6.5M or something, within half an hour or so the sales geezer had it at 11M !!!!!! You have to go here to kick of your house hunting, its so funny but is a good indication of how sellers, agent, salesmen etc will prey on the weak. Stick to your guns.

I love Pattaya and I love house hunting, I dont love estate agents though, sorry Im sure there is some good in you somewhere but unfortunately its not reserved for us prospective house owners in Pattaya.

Merry Christmas and a gid new year tae ye aw'

Thanks for posting. If you say that "don't listen to the Agent/Broker" I assume my comments won't be important to you anyway.

But do remember one thing " All Brokers are not the same" and there are few brokers in this town who are not after the "quick bucks" and value customer service.

Edited December 16, 2009 by benchmark