Bought A Car That Has Had It's Km Wound Back

[freedom4life]

That's terrible and so sorry that that has happened. You still have a vehicle that is in good/great condition. Have the engined rebuilt with all the paperwork and you have yourself an almost new vehicle.

[JetsetBkk]

Seems partly having to do with the fact that overhauls are rather cheap over here.

Not sure on newish Japanese cars, but full overhaul on VW Caravelle auto gearbox = 25,000 Baht.

Top end overhaul of engine (same VW, 5cyl engine) also quoted at 25,000 Baht. To be expected at around 200,000 Km, after which at least another 150 to 200K km before full overhaul...

Do the same on those cars in the West and you'd rather bring the car to the wrecker! Labor intensive job so often not worth doing in the West. Not so in Thailand where the main cost is the spare parts...

But how do you know whether they've actually done anything other than loosen a few bolts and do them up again? (And put in some really thick oil to quieten the engine. )

[blakegeee]

What is the dealer basing this "actual kms of 140K" on? Only the sticker? It very easily could have been a typo, and it would be an easy one since i just has an extra 1 and the other digits are the same. As already asked, is it a digital or analog odometer? By 140K km the drivers seat will show wear where you slide in over the edge of it, although it could have been fixed, check for newer stitching in this area, or unoriginal material. The gas petal and clutch petal will be worn down somewhat by 140K too although could have been changed. These things don't guarantee the low kms but they might guarantee if it really has the high kms. The important hing is, how does the dealer know the kms are actually 140K?

[jayjayjayjay]

What is the dealer basing this "actual kms of 140K" on? Only the sticker? It very easily could have been a typo, and it would be an easy one since i just has an extra 1 and the other digits are the same. As already asked, is it a digital or analog odometer? By 140K km the drivers seat will show wear where you slide in over the edge of it, although it could have been fixed, check for newer stitching in this area, or unoriginal material. The gas petal and clutch petal will be worn down somewhat by 140K too although could have been changed. These things don't guarantee the low kms but they might guarantee if it really has the high kms. The important hing is, how does the dealer know the kms are actually 140K?

Have the mechanic, or another one that's not involved remove the water pump. At 40k a water pump will look average. At 140k it will be close to toast. Replace it anyway, if it is 140k you will need a new one, at 40k you could use the old one, but they are so cheap replace it anyway. One of the best ways to really tell.......

[BSJ]

Caveat Emptor applies to everything you buy in LOS. Pursue it if you want but you may end up more out of pocket and still disappointed!

[bellagrego]

So sorry, your recourse is ZERO, nada, zilch. The suggestion to contact the police for assistance if a laugher of monumental proportions.

First of all, The burden of proof rest on you, not the seller, as to the allegations and documentation.

Second, It's caveat emptor country.

All you have is a verbal suggestion by a mechanic as to real kms anyway.

This ain't the USA where every transfer requires milage verification.

30 years in the auto business from sales, finance, insurance, and legal is my resume.

roll it to someone else if you feel uncomfortable, take the loss and enjoy life in Thailand or blow it off and drive on.

bella

[INTJ]

"Modern cars cannot be clocked like the old days"

Rubbish

[bangkokeddy]

'What's the mileage?' must be the stupidest question you could ask when buying a used car "Whatever you want it to be" is the likely answer.

[torrenova]

I'd look at it from the viewpoint of the seller. Does he really want the police round his house and then having to defend his actions ? I guess not. I think there is a case of misrepresentation as he has said it has 40k on the clock. Pull up the adverts and ask for your money back. If not, run him in.

If he was conned before, then that is his fault. He has no right to institute another con to cover his own shortcomings.

[stingray]

I'd look at it from the viewpoint of the seller. Does he really want the police round his house and then having to defend his actions ? I guess not. I think there is a case of misrepresentation as he has said it has 40k on the clock. Pull up the adverts and ask for your money back. If not, run him in.

If he was conned before, then that is his fault. He has no right to institute another con to cover his own shortcomings.

It's a civil case, police wouldn't care about. But then again if nothing is written in the contract you wouldn't have a chance. I guess 90% of all cars are clogged in LOS. We sell used cars (older ones) and we never know when we buy the car, if the milleaga is correct or not. Therefore we allways mention in the sales contract that we not guarranty about the odometer readings. how could we know on a old car?

[blakegeee]

I'd look at it from the viewpoint of the seller. Does he really want the police round his house and then having to defend his actions ? I guess not. I think there is a case of misrepresentation as he has said it has 40k on the clock. Pull up the adverts and ask for your money back. If not, run him in.

If he was conned before, then that is his fault. He has no right to institute another con to cover his own shortcomings.

It's a civil case, police wouldn't care about. But then again if nothing is written in the contract you wouldn't have a chance. I guess 90% of all cars are clogged in LOS. We sell used cars (older ones) and we never know when we buy the car, if the milleaga is correct or not. Therefore we allways mention in the sales contract that we not guarranty about the odometer readings. how could we know on a old car?

Very good point, you tell people you don't know how many actual kms are on it. This guy said that it had 40K. Thats the difference. I agree, you probably don't have much of a chance legally but its worth a try. The guy might actually be real easy about it. Or he might cave in as soon as he sees police. Or if he doesn't budge, than you can just forget about it.

That being said, I don't think the OP has come back to this thread for a long time to answer the basics about how they figure it has more than 40K kms anyways.

[Kimera]

Seems partly having to do with the fact that overhauls are rather cheap over here.

Not sure on newish Japanese cars, but full overhaul on VW Caravelle auto gearbox = 25,000 Baht.

Top end overhaul of engine (same VW, 5cyl engine) also quoted at 25,000 Baht. To be expected at around 200,000 Km, after which at least another 150 to 200K km before full overhaul...

Do the same on those cars in the West and you'd rather bring the car to the wrecker! Labor intensive job so often not worth doing in the West. Not so in Thailand where the main cost is the spare parts...

You are correct !! thats why you pay so much for second hand cars here in Thailand that service costs are LOW

[stingray]

Basicly, i think it's very wrong to consider the mileage of a car. Should consider the hours a engine runs (similar as a boat), not the km he droves. A "Up country car" with 200'000 clicks is in my opinion in a better condition, than a city car with 100'000 klicks, runing for hours in traffic jams without moving. Engines and transmission run much mor hot when the car is ideling in the front of a redlight than during driving up country, where the car runs cooler.

[INTJ]

Things on cars wear out on cars (shocks, bushes, brakes, bearings, tyres etc) due to being driven, not idling at a red light. And about "hotter" .........a car should not overheat at a red light. If any vehicles temperature goes out of the "normal" range when sat in traffic, it has a fault. Also, an idling engine is under no load/strain.

Cheers

Edited November 21, 2009 by INTJ

[stingray]

Things on cars wear out on cars (shocks, bushes, brakes, bearings, tyres etc) due to being driven, not idling at a red light. And about "hotter" .........a car should not overheat at a red light. If any vehicles temperature goes out of the "normal" range when sat in traffic, it has a fault. Also, an idling engine is under no load/strain.

Cheers

This is somehow correct, but then again in the city (stop and go and stop and go, etc), you use much more brakes and wear than on a constant speed on a highway. Auto trannsmissions shifting up and down and up and dow, etc. Yes, car shouldn't overheat at idle speed, but almost all engines get hotter, than on highway. Just watch the temeperature gauge and you'll see.

[KarenBravo]

Caveat Emptor......

[HDRIDER]

Hi

I dont have a temeperature gauge

[katabeachbum]

Basicly, i think it's very wrong to consider the mileage of a car. Should consider the hours a engine runs (similar as a boat), not the km he droves. A "Up country car" with 200'000 clicks is in my opinion in a better condition, than a city car with 100'000 klicks, runing for hours in traffic jams without moving. Engines and transmission run much mor hot when the car is ideling in the front of a redlight than during driving up country, where the car runs cooler.

yepp

a bkk car with 30 k km in three years and a highway car with 100k km in three years I sure choose the 100k km car. less engine/aircon/pumps and auto hours.

[ThaiPauly]

This sad tale just reconfirms to me the reason why I only ever buy NEW in Thailand.

[MikeyIdea]

Idling wears out engines faster than normal cruising speed does (not only because they get hotter), automatic gearboxes also wears out faster (because they get too hot). Bangkok traffic and the bad roads in Bangkok at least double wear compared to up-country.

I always buy new, simply because the cars keep their value too well in Thailand, the difference is too small to motivate buying second-hand, IMO

[stingray]

This sad tale just reconfirms to me the reason why I only ever buy NEW in Thailand.

Yes, new, but what poor choice you have? A boring City, Jazz or Vios? Maybe a "Pick" and that's it. Therefore, if you wan't something else, like a Bemer Audi or Benz, you have to consider second hand.

[ThaiPauly]

This sad tale just reconfirms to me the reason why I only ever buy NEW in Thailand.

Yes, new, but what poor choice you have? A boring City, Jazz or Vios? Maybe a "Pick" and that's it. Therefore, if you wan't something else, like a Bemer Audi or Benz, you have to consider second hand.

Not really.

I brought a new BMW 325i...........I must admit I am a lucky guy

[MikeyIdea]

Avanza is an excellent family car and is less than 700,000 bath. It's not a soft drive but you can surely get a lot of stuff in. It's loud above 100 km/h so it's a good idea to buy 10 millimeter foam at HomePro (they sell them in 1 by 2 meter lenths something for 500 bath each). Taking out all the seats and putting the foam under the carpet from front all the way to back takes a full weekend of hard work (maybe more even), but it is worth it.

Now, an Innova for 1.2 million is even better...

Edited November 24, 2009 by MikeyIdea