Someone Kill Me Now - Help Needed

[jfk]

hi guys,

recently got offered a job as teacher, great.

however this is all new to me and keeping control of 40 runaways is proving difficult.

they are P1, about 7 year old and are really hard to control.

i have read a few how to keep discipline leaflets but they dont apply.

the fact i dont speak thai too well doesnt help but it is also discouraged in the classroom.

any tips on how to keep them under control while trying to follow a syllabus is appreciated

many thanks in advance for your help.

best regards.

[neverdie]

Are you actually a qualified teacher?

Edited November 3, 2009 by neverdie

[neverdie]

I don't want to discourage him, but properly trained teachers know how to deal with these types of things and whilst things change slightly if you dont speak the language, control is an important part of the teachers role.

I thought these english teachers had a thai speaking aid in the classroom when they were teaching, whats going on here?

[scorecard]

I don't want to discourage him, but properly trained teachers know how to deal with these types of things and whilst things change slightly if you dont speak the language, control is an important part of the teachers role.

I thought these english teachers had a thai speaking aid in the classroom when they were teaching, whats going on here?

Where do you 'teach'?

[PeaceBlondie]

40 Thai 7-year-olds - sheesh.

31 12-year-olds were hard to control after I was trained.

[Firelily]

I'm a qualified teacher with over 10 years of experience but I would have no clue how to deal with 40 seven-year-olds in a meaningful and positive way without an assistant. Please make fun of me.

[phetaroi]

hi guys,

recently got offered a job as teacher, great.

however this is all new to me and keeping control of 40 runaways is proving difficult.

they are P1, about 7 year old and are really hard to control.

i have read a few how to keep discipline leaflets but they dont apply.

the fact i dont speak thai too well doesnt help but it is also discouraged in the classroom.

any tips on how to keep them under control while trying to follow a syllabus is appreciated

many thanks in advance for your help.

best regards.

Of course, we don't know much about your previous work experience, but I will tell you that back home in the States second career teachers (even with training) were about 50% total flops and 50% really quite good. You have read a few leaflets????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I have no sympathy whatsoever...except perhaps for the students.

[Scott]

I have deleted many, many posts and will spend the evening going through them and issuing warnings. So, when you get a holiday for flaming, trolling, and off-topic responses, you've been warned.

The OP has asked for advice about dealing with a class of 7 years old. That is what you are welcome to respond to.

The rest of you can go to the farming forum and explain to them how to heard chickens.

[Scott]

You have your work cut out for you in controlling them. Nothing you can do will probably meet your expectations, but try to keep them as active as possible. I used to try and switch what I was doing about every 5 to 10 minutes--or when the class was obviously drifting away from me. I might have a few question and answer sentences on the board and then have all the boys stand up and ask and then sit down and the girls stand up and answer--they can do it quickly. These are simple like "Can you ride a bike?" "Yes, I can." "Can you fly? "No, I can't (cannot)?" Keep drilling them. Then write it in their notebook etc.

Use English for getting their attention and gaining control. Teach them stand up, sit down, stand still, be quiet.

It's a lot of work and at the end of the class you will most likely be exhausted, but exhilerated.

Best of luck.

[mca]

I have deleted many, many posts and will spend the evening going through them and issuing warnings. So, when you get a holiday for flaming, trolling, and off-topic responses, you've been warned.

The rest of you can go to the farming forum and explain to them how to heard chickens.

Please allow me one more for the road Scott. Please. Please.

[neverdie]

You have your work cut out for you in controlling them. Nothing you can do will probably meet your expectations, but try to keep them as active as possible. I used to try and switch what I was doing about every 5 to 10 minutes--or when the class was obviously drifting away from me. I might have a few question and answer sentences on the board and then have all the boys stand up and ask and then sit down and the girls stand up and answer--they can do it quickly. These are simple like "Can you ride a bike?" "Yes, I can." "Can you fly? "No, I can't (cannot)?" Keep drilling them. Then write it in their notebook etc.

Use English for getting their attention and gaining control. Teach them stand up, sit down, stand still, be quiet.

It's a lot of work and at the end of the class you will most likely be exhausted, but exhilerated.

Best of luck.

I'm exhausted just reading your suggestion.

As for the 40 odd students, that is alot, the OP hasnt mentioned if he is alone in the classroom, I would be going to see my supervising teacher or department head or principal or whatever to find out why I was being left alone with 40 children & not a soul to help.

Sound like that with only a few brochures for help, this is destined to fail. Goodluck OP, seems your going to need loads of it.

edit: spelling again

Edited November 3, 2009 by neverdie

[Scott]

OK, you got me 'herd' chickens. Now, it will remain on topic, off grammar and spelling.

[norwayeagle]

Hi . example.Take the kids out of the classroom,out in the nature.Get closer to them.go and see something they would like/ or need to see.Let them see you and learn you from outside the classroom.Hope you get an impulse of my "simple" suggestions.

[mca]

^^Cheers.

I'm not a teacher but for my two bobs worth I think it's got to be a must for a Thai to come in and explain to the kids what the score is. An acquaintance of mine went through the same situ as the OP with a college group and said it was hel_l.

Students rolling in an hour late, using mobiles, shooting the shit when he was talking, just strolling out of class etc.

His complete lack of Thai hindered him a lot. He got one of the Thai ajarns to come in and give them a 10 minute arse kicking along the lines of they'd all fail immediately if they didn't shape up and stop f#cking about. According to him the ajarn read the riot act without a peep from the students. After that they were good as gold.

Obviously this would have to be adapted for youngsters. Getting the ajarn to say something along the lines of collecting every parents mobile number for the time when their kid is acting up. Telling their kids they'll call their folks away from work to come and take their child home for the day if they're going to piss about. Tell the kids that they've got to stay 20 minutes after school for pissing about. Or my idea is allow the biggest trouble maker to go home on time while "punishing" the other kids for the trouble makers crimes.. Maybe a bit of peer group pressure would work on the worst offenders.

I dunno. I'm no expert.

Edited November 3, 2009 by mca

[Martian]

Difficult situation. Aside from the calls for an assistant in the room.....perhaps finding something that hits them with their interests????????? Maybe some kind of "cartoon" lesson approach......if it is available???????

I agree with PeaceBlondie......all my classrooms are quite under control except for one which is always teetering........42 Matayom 1 Non-EP students. I don't know how 7 year old's would go! Funny though, the other Matayom 1 class of equal students is one of my best classes, using the same presentation and content.

[Scott]

Big difference between different ages as well. Younger children are easier to control without understanding the language than older kids. Younger kids method of communication/understanding has a lot to do with the tone of the voice, the look and body language--which eventually translates into words.

Schools usually have assistants and in the case of a new teacher it is quite important.

I have taught a lot of classes of young learners with no assistance. I can't speak Thai (well, let's just say the kids don't understand me). I understand enough and they often speak Thai and I answer in English. They seem to get--at least they go to the bathroom with my permission.

[TerryLH]

"These are simple like "Can you ride a bike?" "Yes, I can." "Can you fly? "No, I can't (cannot)?" Keep drilling them. Then write it in their notebook etc."

Most 7 year olds won't be able to read yet. They'll have a very difficult time writing, even if they learned letters in K.

Use flashcards with simple vocabulary. One card with a picture, another with the word. Show them which cards go together. After a while you'll be able to play matching games with them.

As Scott suggested, practice simple classroom instructions, such as stand up, sit down, open your book, pick up your pencil etc. You can do this without speaking Thai. Use gestures. They'll pick it up quickly. This could be your warm up.

Plan several activities for each class, none very long. At that age their minds tend to wander after a few minutes.

Do a warm up at the start of class. Get them up and moving around.

Some type of game for each class. There are plenty of books with children's activities/games in them.

Good luck. It's a difficult age, but one you'll end up really enjoying.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Good advice

A lot of routine would be good- things that they can get used to so that they start focussing more on the language you use (should be very simple English commands- there's a whole theory of 2nd language learning around following commands; look up 'total physical response' theories for more infor.)- a lot of physical involvement in games and activities to burn off the extra energy would be good.

That does sound like a long row to hoe, though. 40 students at any age is a pretty large class, and at that age I feel is really inappropriate, especially in a 2nd language setting.

[Scott]

With young ones, I often write the questions and the response on the board--not that they can read it, but so I have something to point at and prompt them to say. It's also important that they start learning to read by seeing things written.

I avoid anything that involves moving around the room or out of the room until I know a class very well. At that age, you have minutes of attention span and they are easily distracted. I am fairly structured in the classroom and I like to keep things firmly under my control. Other teachers have a different approach. I think that a part of the learning process is to stay as much in your 'comfort zone' as you can.

I am absolutely amazed at how quickly young children can learn (or at least understand) a new language. A few gestures associated with sentences and they are off and running. If they are really new to English, you may have to show them how things like: pick up your pencil, put your pencil down, look at the board etc. And yes do check out total physical response.

Usually, with the young ones I find that I am the one walking out of the room having learned a lot!

[phetaroi]

...Nothing you can do will probably meet your expectations, but try to keep them as active as possible. I used to try and switch what I was doing about every 5 to 10 minutes--or when the class was obviously drifting away from me...Keep drilling them. Then write it in their notebook etc.

Scott, I'm not sure after just reading a few pamphlets that the OP has any realistic expectations. In fact, I think that should be a first step. Frankly, if it can be arranged, I think he ought to do a week of observing in a good class to learn what the teachers are doing and what the results are. That would help him gain some realistic starting expectations.

I agree with you that attention span is an essential factor here, although I'm not sure you can put a specific time on that. Some activities will maintain an attention span much longer than others. I think your comment about "when the class was obviously drifting away" is more accurate, although even then you have to measure the integrity of the objective against attention span. Not everything in school can be interesting or fun. Sometimes learning is just plain hard work, even for younger children. Eventually the poster may learn how to balance that.

I think your idea of what I'll call a learning journal is excellent. It is something you begin a new lesson with as you review what the kids have already learned. It's a great way to bring closure to a lesson. It is something the kids can show their parents. It is even something the teacher can show his evaluators.

It sounds like the OP got some pretty harsh critiques, and frankly, I'm not surprised or particularly sympathetic. The general public has no concept of the challenges of teaching. I see so many people posting on this and some other Thai forums who seem to think that teaching is easy. It is...easier...once you've developed a broad repertoire of strategies. But the OP didn't even start out with a bag, let alone a bag of tricks. And, I'm a little concerned that he's seeking advice from a forum, but I guess he feels he has nowhere else to turn.

If I were more familiar with primary education, I'd volunteer to meet with him...at least once...to do a little tutoring, but alas my background is in middle and high school. I'm wondering if we don't have some QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCED primary teachers in the forum who might throw an in-person life line?

[phetaroi]

Hi . example.Take the kids out of the classroom,out in the nature.Get closer to them.go and see something they would like/ or need to see.Let them see you and learn you from outside the classroom.Hope you get an impulse of my "simple" suggestions.

To be honest, with a non-experienced teacher who is aware he is struggling and perhaps drowning, I'm not sure this is a good suggestion. As an administrator under the current situation, I wouldn't allow it unless it was part of a field experience with other successful teachers who are already managing their students well.

[Tatsujin]

As others have already mentioned, getting and keeping their attention is one of the hardest things to achieve in any classroom, but especially with the younger kids.

I've worked with and without assistants in the classroom, and definitely having an assistant does make life easier, but doing it without is not impossible either!

For my 2 pennies worth, you have to make sure what you are teaching is "interesting" and gets the kids involved somehow . . . most lesson schedules are pretty dry and boring, so as a Teacher it's up to you to take what they need to learn and present it in an interesting and engaging way. Start with the simple things and work from there though. One of my classes had "nil" English language skills when I first started teaching with them, and they had no idea how to do even simple things like tying their own shoelaces, so that became one of my lessons, teaching them different and fun ways to tie their shoelaces so that we didn't waste 15 minutes every time they stepped outside the classroom . It's also worth teaching them in simple terms what is and is not "allowed" or "accepted" in your classroom . . . for example, if they have something to say, raise your hand, if you need the bathroom, ask (of course you need to teach them exactly how to do this!).

Another thing I always did with my kids, was to "bribe" them (sounds worse than it is! lol) . . . essentially, we made Friday afternoons a 'fun' day (as pretty much every week it was someone's birthday), so we had a "party" every Friday where the kids could let off steam and look forward to. I'd set up an English cartoon movie they wanted to see (with Thai subtitles), get drinks, snacks and a cake in for the b'day boy or girl and they loved it. It also allowed me to work them a little harder the rest of the week, cos those that were norty or didn't try, didn't get to attend the party. One or two kids missing the fun afternoon in the beginning, and they soon learned that if they want the fun, they need to work a little and try harder.

Making things a competition is always good too. I used to give them 15 words to learn to spell every week, and Monday morning was the spelling test. The top 2 kids got to have a prize (usually candy) and they also got to choose the movie for the week so it helped motivate them a little.

At the end of the day, with kids at age 7 or thereabouts, you are never going to get them to sit still and be quiet for very long, so don't have a heart attack trying to achieve it, but what you CAN do is get them to behave a little better and understand the "rules" of learning and life.

Good luck!

[Scott]

Doing some classroom observations is an excellent, excellent idea. It is really difficult to grasp some of the concepts unless you see them in action.

[PeaceBlondie]

I learned techniques watching a Thai math teacher teach 7th graders in Thai. Repetition, voice tones, neat board work, voice projection, monitoring desk work. She even showed me how to give answers during final exam!

[jfk]

Doing some classroom observations is an excellent, excellent idea. It is really difficult to grasp some of the concepts unless you see them in action.

hi,thanks for all your help, it is appreciated. i wont tell you where i live as i dont want critisism of the education system in the town i have lived in for 6 years.

i am trully inexperienced at teaching but this school needs help with english classes and the least i can do is try to help them and give something back.

i normally have a thai assistant and these classes are a breeze. however staff constraints and big student numbers dont always allow for me to have an assistant.

my cry for help was to get your input on how to control 40 kids when i am alone.

thank you to the moderator for removing the usual opinions that would have in no way helped me. if you dont have anything constuctive or helpful to tell me then just keep it to yourself. for the others, thank you very much for your input. it is very appreciated.

for you others, try to remember this forum is here to help not as an outlet for your many frustrations so you can take a bite out of someone else.

many thanks.

[norwayeagle]

Hi . example.Take the kids out of the classroom,out in the nature.Get closer to them.go and see something they would like/ or need to see.Let them see you and learn you from outside the classroom.Hope you get an impulse of my "simple" suggestions.

To be honest, with a non-experienced teacher who is aware he is struggling and perhaps drowning, I'm not sure this is a good suggestion. As an administrator under the current situation, I wouldn't allow it unless it was part of a field experience with other successful teachers who are already managing their students well.

Well.In Norway,this is the first many intelligent teachers do.Before any inside class activities.And they do it with great luck.But i also do agree in what you say.I Norway i think they have this "field "experiments" as an obligatory in their teachers studies.

[phetaroi]

Hi . example.Take the kids out of the classroom,out in the nature.Get closer to them.go and see something they would like/ or need to see.Let them see you and learn you from outside the classroom.Hope you get an impulse of my "simple" suggestions.

To be honest, with a non-experienced teacher who is aware he is struggling and perhaps drowning, I'm not sure this is a good suggestion. As an administrator under the current situation, I wouldn't allow it unless it was part of a field experience with other successful teachers who are already managing their students well.

Well.In Norway,this is the first many intelligent teachers do.Before any inside class activities.And they do it with great luck.But i also do agree in what you say.I Norway i think they have this "field "experiments" as an obligatory in their teachers studies.

In reading your response, for some reason a situation from my own past popped into my head. I had been teaching for about 2 years, and the school I was at had a wooded area behind it. I found out who owned the area and asked for their permission to take my kids back in the woods for an earth science lesson (there was a small stream there){.

All went well.

About a week later the old lady who owned the property stopped by the school and asked me how my field trip went. I told her it was fine and that I'd be contacting her again the following year. She said, "I'm just glad you didn't have any problems with the quicksand or the copperhead snakes!"

[Ijustwannateach]

Heh heh- talk about learning by doing!

Norwayeagle, in many school systems it has become in vogue to ask the teachers to do some kind of research- whether 'action-research' or connected with larger scale research projects by full-time research programmes.

[toasted]

Try some TPR (Total Physical Response) - it's used for instructions. You say, they do (stand up, sit down stand in a line - commands that you will need to organise and manage the children). Make it a game by putting them in teams/groups, thus encouraging competition. Offer a little prize/token for the winning team each lesson. You can give or take away points during the lesson for good participation or unnacceptable behaviour once the competitive ethos has been established. One thing to remember - nearly all kids this age will want to please you and do well to recieve praise. If they're misbehaving, it's you not them. The fact that you want to do better shows that this situation can be fixed. Well done for looking for help and good luck.

[Sam125]

"....And on more serious note i agree that qualifications are important and give the basic tools to build on but what matters more is right attitude and devotion to the job. With 7 years olds it might be even better to have a young guy without qualifications to get the kids interested of learning the language than force fed them with grammar and the teachers ego...."

I have 10 years of teaching experience including in early days being a substitute teacher while looking for a full-time job.

I agree 100% with the above post. Certainly formal training and a teaching internship help but in the end who you are and your talent at working with kids is what counts.

Any native speaker of English who is intelligent, kind, energetic and creative can teach kids to speak English.

Just have fun and make flash cards, get the kids to interact by actually talking instead of sitting bored in their seats

.

Example:

Class opens speaking only English you quickly take control and have the kids sit down with a couple of kids as volunteers stand up.

You have an easy dialog ready - model it get the two volunteers to repeat and then the whole class - you walk around and help.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Sam125