Thaksin Appointed As Adviser Of Cambodian Government

[LawnGnome]

You guys must understand the larger context of Thaksin's play here. He knows that time has virtually run out to force any change of government, and swing things back towards him. By cozying up with Hun Sen, a person most Thai people openly despise (rational or not), he'll never be back, now or ever. Never say never? Im saying never.

The new fiscal year budget funds just started rolling out the past few weeks. In the next few months, as the Democrat's first budget spending (When you took office, they were using the budget formulated by the now defunct PPP), and now have their chance to show in their own programs that they can turn the country around. As the economy gets better worldwide next year (and Thailand will rise along with it), The Dems will further cement their image as the party that is best equipped to lead Thailand. They have political trump cards in their pocket (Saxena) and are ready to roll. After the constitution changes are made (late next year i would imagine), youll see a new election with virtually the same result, Abh back in in PM seat.

Bank on it.

[swindonabroad]

I can’t work out which is funnier/sadder.

The comical political situation here which lunches from ridiculous to farcical and then over to a full out school boy ‘who can pi$$ the highest’ contest.

OR

The vitriol, bile and mis-guided passion coming from a load of foreigners here on this forum who have no say in Thai politics, are guests in this country and cannot effect any change

[fullcave]

I am amazed at how anti-Taksin most of the members of the forum are - and how pro-Taksin so many of the normal ordinary Thais are - Could the reason be that as PM he did lots for the poor and disenfrancised and very little for the elite (of which the expats and other members are part). Well then, as there are a lot more of the have-nots or have-very-little - than the have-enoughs, and have-a-lots in Thailand - we should see his political return at the next free and fair election - what ever we think.

I imagine the Thai military may be concerned that Thaksin could pose a threat to national security. For example if he provides any information of military value or consequence. The Cambodians have after all been very aggressive as late and Thaksin has a vested interest in overthrowing the current government and installing himself in power.

[jayboy]

Both were removed in ENTIRELY democratic measures. Samak broke a law, and was removed. Somchai's party was dissolved for election fraud, by the Constitution Court. Smaller parties grew tired of the TRT/PPP/PTP nonsense, and joined together to form a legal ruling government.

You lash out and talk about "debating with the big boys", yet your own position (see extract above) is frankly rather naive.In fact if you really believe administrations were removed "in ENTIRELY democratic measures", you really have a great deal more understanding left to achieve.

[LawnGnome]

Both were removed in ENTIRELY democratic measures. Samak broke a law, and was removed. Somchai's party was dissolved for election fraud, by the Constitution Court. Smaller parties grew tired of the TRT/PPP/PTP nonsense, and joined together to form a legal ruling government.

You lash out and talk about "debating with the big boys", yet your own position (see extract above) is frankly rather naive.In fact if you really believe administrations were removed "in ENTIRELY democratic measures", you really have a great deal more understanding left to achieve.

Democratic as deals with the rule of law which is the 2007 Constitution. Your "third hand/hidden motives/elite conspiracy" garbage sells a lot of fishwrap, but doesn't change the facts of the incidents.

My extract above is entirely factual and accurate - a point that I am sure galls you to no end - lol.

Edited November 5, 2009 by LawnGnome

[xminator]

To an expat community anything that could treathen the daily bear and beach stroll is considered bad. And that explains the feelings toward anything that resembles change. And god forbid this country would ever lift its poor majority to middle class standards. Imagine what that would do to living costs for the forums expats.

[JetsetBkk]

I am amazed at how anti-Taksin most of the members of the forum are - and how pro-Taksin so many of the normal ordinary Thais are ...

Another day, another Thaksin story.

Anti Thaksin forum members - normal situation.

Pro-Thaksin ordinary Thais - normal situation.

I wonder if any of the anti-Thaksin crowd here actually talk to ordinary (and poor) Thais. Judging by what they post here, I think not... and so it goes on.

[LawnGnome]

To an expat community anything that could treathen the daily bear and beach stroll is considered bad. And that explains the feelings toward anything that resembles change. And god forbid this country would ever lift its poor majority to middle class standards. Imagine what that would do to living costs for the forums expats.

I would be fascinated to hear your ideas for lifting the rural poor to middle class income levels. I bet there are 186 other countries that would love to hear them as well.

[rfukata]

The current government gonna look stupid when Thaksin is lifting Cambodia. Then after a few years the Thais will wonder "What happened"?

the current government is stupid. (period). never has a rationale for anything.

[DegenFarang]

This should certainly give Thaksin more credibility in the eyes of world leaders and tarnish the claims of those simply calling him a criminal. If he were just looting the Thai coffers for his entire administration, surely the Cambodian government would not want him advising them on economic matters.

This gives some credence to the claim that the charges against him in Thailand are mainly political. I hope that they are eventually dropped and he can return to his homeland. Whether or not he should be allowed to re-enter politics is up to the Thai's, but I see no reason why he should have to live in exile.

[LawnGnome]

I wonder how many people urging forum member talk "to ordinary Thais", ever themselves talk to ordinary Thais. The "ordinary Thais" I talk to on a daily basis are middle class academics and students, and they all are very much pro stable Thailand and anti Thaksin corruption-omics.

[DegenFarang]

Plus he has hot daughters and it would be easier for me to impregnate them if they were in Thailand, I don't get to Cambodia or Dubai often.

[Lite Beer]

Post containing an altered quote deleted.

[LawnGnome]

This should certainly give Thaksin more credibility in the eyes of world leaders and tarnish the claims of those simply calling him a criminal. If he were just looting the Thai coffers for his entire administration, surely the Cambodian government would not want him advising them on economic matters.

This gives some credence to the claim that the charges against him in Thailand are mainly political. I hope that they are eventually dropped and he can return to his homeland. Whether or not he should be allowed to re-enter politics is up to the Thai's, but I see no reason why he should have to live in exile.

Yes I am sure the rest of the democratic leaders pay a lot of heed to the former Khmer Rouge leader, who himself came to power through a coup. I can just image the conversation, over a glass of Bia Laos. In actually, unless your post is sarcastic, which is doesn't seem to be, the reaction from the world leaders is likely to be indifference or perhaps even the opposite of what you mention.

[TAWP]

Whether or not he should be allowed to re-enter politics is up to the Thai's, but I see no reason why he should have to live in exile.

He doesn't live in exile, he is fleeing a prison sentence.

He can come home whenever he wants to.

[Foggy Bottom]

Remembering that one of the contributory causes to the 2006 coup was the military's concern regarding interception of their voice and data traffic via the Shin satellite, and that as PM Thaksin was supreme leader with most of his cousins and nephews in the military top jobs, I'm a little surprised that it too until the third page before someone mentioned the Thai Military's potential reactions to this.

In my wondering, the Thai government has two roads to go - indignation or ignoring, and from the Foreign Ministry's announcement they seem to be going with the ignoring route. It therefore becomes more important to study the miltary establishment's response - are there enough Shinawatras in senior positions still to promote Thaksin's appointment as good news for Thailand, or have they too all been ousted and the pro-2006-coup supporters now issue the orders? How will they interpret this move by Hun Sen? What reaction will they seek to elicit from the populace, and what "propaganda" is being distributed in the closeted environments of military barracks and airfields nationwide?

TV members should always remember there are three parliament's in Thailand - the elected MP's and the Senate, the "trade guilds" of the business world, and the military. I don't count the nobility as a Thai parliament, even though they are a fourth force in such matters - Brits will understand what I mean when I say that the "three parliaments" decide if they have absolute allegiance to the monarchy or press their agendas regardless of the nobility ... however revered as symbolic heads or persons they may be.

As I said at the top - the reaction that counts will come from the military ... especially if it transpires at any time that Thaksin personally still has login and password for the satellite controls and eavesdropping technology. If the Abhisit government plays this wrong, they may find themselves on the receiving end of another coup ... in the interests of national security ... or as early posters mentioned, it might all be left up to a 2-man team who cross the border at night.

I'll wait for the official reports though - it's early days in this charade.

Foggy

[LawnGnome]

Whether or not he should be allowed to re-enter politics is up to the Thai's, but I see no reason why he should have to live in exile.

He doesn't live in exile, he is fleeing a prison sentence.

He can come home whenever he wants to.

Details, details...lol

[chrislarsson]

deleted

Edited November 5, 2009 by chrislarsson

[asiawatcher]

I admire Hun Sen to be so patient with the current aggressive Thai government.

Anyway, Hun Sen shows he has no problem with Thailand: he takes a Thai man as an adviser.

It's even excellent: as soon as Thailand will have a normal government, friendship between the two countries will be as good as usual.

Hun Sen was directly and indirectly responsible for hundreds of deaths when a member of the Khmer Rouge. He is still in power because no-one dares address this or bring him to justice. Two peas in a pod - Criminal and criminal. And you endorse this? Thaksin is a common thief with a huge ego - they do suit each other but you are way off the mark.

[JetsetBkk]

I wonder how many people urging forum member talk "to ordinary Thais", ever themselves talk to ordinary Thais. The "ordinary Thais" I talk to on a daily basis are middle class academics and students, and they all are very much pro stable Thailand and anti Thaksin corruption-omics.

I didn't actually "urge" anyone to do anything, but you might learn more if you talk to "ordinary Thais".

The "ordinary Thais" I talk to want to know when the road to the next village will have the pot-holes filled in and thank Thaksin for the 30 baht hospital scheme so they can get the chemo-therapy treatment that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford. It matters not a jot who actually started the scheme or whether it will bankrupt the hospitals - they thank Thaksin for it. And the roads were a dämn site better when he was in power.

So all the knowledgeable posts about who was more corrupt than who, who was kicked out legally or democratically, means nothing to these "ordinary Thais". They remember what it was like under Thaksin and want him back.

[LawnGnome]

I wonder how many people urging forum member talk "to ordinary Thais", ever themselves talk to ordinary Thais. The "ordinary Thais" I talk to on a daily basis are middle class academics and students, and they all are very much pro stable Thailand and anti Thaksin corruption-omics.

I didn't actually "urge" anyone to do anything, but you might learn more if you talk to "ordinary Thais".

The "ordinary Thais" I talk to want to know when the road to the next village will have the pot-holes filled in and thank Thaksin for the 30 baht hospital scheme so they can get the chemo-therapy treatment that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford. It matters not a jot who actually started the scheme or whether it will bankrupt the hospitals - they thank Thaksin for it. And the roads were a dämn site better when he was in power.

So all the knowledgeable posts about who was more corrupt than who, who was kicked out legally or democratically, means nothing to these "ordinary Thais". They remember what it was like under Thaksin and want him back.

Any they are welcome to elect him as soon has he comes back to Thailand and serves his prison sentence.

Oh wait, no they cant.

Section 102. A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(1) being addicted to narcotics;

(2) being bankrupt or having been dishonestly bankrupt;

(3) being disfranchised under section 100 (1), (2) or (4);

(4) having been sentenced by a judgement to imprisonment and being detained by a warrant of the Court;

Edited November 5, 2009 by LawnGnome

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Hun Sen is a real mad dog of SE Asia.

He is the real threat to the region.

Let's see what Abhisit will react.

Heck, I'd like Abhisit react to anything.. The Chiang Mai baby panda is hyper active compared to Abhsit.

If it gets Abhisit to do something (anything) it's a good thing in my book.

Edited November 5, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[chrislarsson]

It's amazing to see how many people here actually believes the current government are any less corrupt compared with previous ones. For anyone living here pre-Thaksin, you would know how many things actually improved during his time. Not without faults, but the situation for most Thais improved considerably. To even think that corruption in high places ended with Thaskin's departure is nothing more than pure stupidity.

But then again, we do rely on the Infinite monkey theorem here.

Thailand has fallen in all international independent ratings in the last three years, e.g. press freedom, corruption, civil liberties, political rights, etc.

If anybody can find an indicator that has improved send a link that shows it. There are enough emotional postings here already.

It's also worth noting that Thailand were making progress in most areas during the 5 years before that.

Don't post lies to make a point.

Yes, the press freedom etc fell during the military government etc, but to claim it was making progress the 5 years before that is preposterous. The BIG fall in press freedom and civil liberties WAS during Thaksin reign. And while I am not defending the military regime, their actions was kinda expected from a coup-government, and atleast they stepped down...Thaksin would never do that.

Here are the scores for Thailand from the Press Freedom Index 2002-2009. There is no data available before 2002.

2002 - 22,75

2003 - 19,67

2004 - 14,00

2005 - 28,00

2006 - 33,50

2007 - 53,50

2008 - 34,50

2009 - 44,00

In comparison Denmark scored 0 and North Korea 112,5 in 2009.

Btw, I wrote in most areas, not all.

Edited November 5, 2009 by chrislarsson

[skorchio]

Wonder what he'll sell off first?

the people. Or maybe Ankor Wat, seeing as he has a taste for selling temples.

[TAWP]

Here are data from some selected years from the Press Freedom Index. There is no data available before 2002.

2002 - 22,75

2004 - 14,00

2005 - 28,00

2007 - 53,50

2009 - 44,00

In comparison Denmark got 0 and North Korea 112,5 in 2009

Thanks for proving my point?

(No idea where you got those numbers from, I prefer the one that ranks listings of nations directly compared to eachother. The major drop happened under Thaksin, and granted has stayed low ever since.)

And even after your edit, your assertion that 5 years of improved before Thaksins oustering is clearly a lie as we see 3 years of decline in a row...

Edited November 5, 2009 by TAWP

[webfact]

A nonsensical post referring to a non-existing or fictitious person named Toxin has been deleted.

[rixalex]

The "ordinary Thais" I talk to want to know when the road to the next village will have the pot-holes filled in and thank Thaksin for the 30 baht hospital scheme so they can get the chemo-therapy treatment that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford. It matters not a jot who actually started the scheme or whether it will bankrupt the hospitals - they thank Thaksin for it.

Is it a coincidence that whenever people state the views of Thai people they have met, those Thai people invariably seem to have the same opinion as they do?

Unless you can name names, seems to me to be a cheap and easy method of substaniating your own thoughts.

[mizzi39]

The current government gonna look stupid when Thaksin is lifting Cambodia. Then after a few years the Thais will wonder "What happened"?

I totally agree with you. The Thai bureaucrats will have to deal with their chauvinism first, before wondering "what happened"? I personally do not see that happening anytime in the near future, so what is the famous anthem now? Que Sara Sara- What will be will be? Yep, i can see that "attitude" turning around and biting them in the arse!

Edited November 5, 2009 by mizzi39

[lensta]

This is like a game of poker: I'll see your Phra Wirahan and raise you one Thaksin!

The Phra Wirahan is just a bluff.

The real point are the dispute in the gulf borders with the oil and gas. Both Thailand and Cambodia claim them.

The temple has zero value but is nice to mobilize some nationalists.

When I was 8 years old the World Court in Netherland decided to give the temple for the Cambodian...my father told me that the Ex Prime minister did not have to show up and the world court had no power over Thailand..what so ever..he was right?? But, the Thai government went to Court anyway??

Now oil and gas will be the issue and the show must go on...I am not surprised about the Ex Prime Minister who is trying to claim his power. Cambodian guy is a tough cookie and please do not under estimate both political ambition..watch out... any event occures the Thai and Cambodian working citizens will suffer the most...you and I know the big fish always eat little fish. I do feel uneasy how close the Ex Prime minister from the Thai border...

Well, Money talks and we Farangs need to do something?? talking is good start but, advising the Thais will be awesome...my opinion.

"advising the Thais will be awesome...my opinion" are you serious. The Thais are never going to listen to advice from farangs

[chrislarsson]

Here are scores from the Press Freedom Index 2002-2009. There is no data available before 2002.

2002 - 22,75

2003 - 19,67

2004 - 14,00

2005 - 28,00

2006 - 33,50

2007 - 53,50

2008 - 34,50

2009 - 44,00

In comparison Denmark scored 0 and North Korea 112,5 in 2009

Thanks for proving my point?

(No idea where you got those numbers from, I prefer the one that ranks listings of nations directly compared to eachother. The major drop happened under Thaksin, and granted has stayed low ever since.)

And even after your edit, your assertion that 5 years of improved before Thaksins oustering is clearly a lie as we see 3 years of decline in a row...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index, http://www.rsf.org/Reporters-Without-Borders,4116.html

I'm not trying to prove any point. According to Reporters Without Borders press freedom improved between 2002 - 2004, and since then it is downhill with the exception of 2008.

Again, I did not claim that all indicators improved during Thaksin's reign, but most.