Thaksin Accuses Political Opponents Of "false Patriotism"

[animatic]

Go Dixie Chicks! May they live forever!

Bout the only thing we have ever agreed on.

[Yoshitaka]

Dixie Chicks?

Please stay within the discussion.

[animatic]

Dixie Chicks?

Please stay within the discussion.

The originating post was totally on point.

Didn't you read it? Are you a mod now?

With 5197 posts to your 123...

I think I have no problem staying on point

without a lecture...

Edited November 13, 2009 by animatic

[zzaa09]

It is obvious that Mr. T is finding himself in more and more isolations. And luckily he is becoming more and more irrelevant to Thai politics and society.

You'd never know it by the attention he is receiving.

[lannarebirth]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

[animatic]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

Yeah I did get a smile from that.

I prefer;

Aha! STINK. Warn Thais.

And the cartoon of Thaksin shooting his foot and

Hun Sen offering a bigger weapon for the other foot was rather drole.

And no I don't JUST read The Nation....

[Steve2UK]

Letter from Phnom Penh

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Published on November 13, 2009

Cambodia is relatively open for foreign journalists to report everything happening in the country but coverage of this visit by former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is different.

It is no big deal for local and international journalists to report Thaksin's high profile visit.

Cambodian authorities allowed them access to Thaksin when he landed in Phnom Penh airport Tuesday. Some local journalists and those who accompanied Thaksin were selected to attend a press briefing on Wednesday. Many local and foreign journalists were allowed to briefly attend Thaksin's lecture at the Economic and Finance Ministry Thursday.

However all coverage was off-limits to Thai journalists. They were not allowed to cover Thaksin's economics lecture, which was the highlight of the visit.

Thai journalists of all kind in print and broadcasting were blocked to hanging around near the fence of the ministry where Thaksin delivered his speech.

There was a brief push-and-pull action between Thai journalists and Cambodian guards when Thaksin arrived and Thai journalists tried to shout to put questions to him.

At first Thaksin seemed to walk from his car to speak to Thai journalists. But finally Cambodian security guards stopped and pushed him into the meeting room.

I tried to utilise my Khmer-looking appearance to snake into the meeting venue but failed as a security guard recognised me. A few guards later escorted me out of the ministry compound, and that's the end of story.

In fact, the content of Thaksin's lecture was no secret and Cambodian authorities released the whole lecture through National Television Kampuchea. And Thaksin's media also broadcast it yesterday.

What they feared was questions from Thai journalists.

-- The Nation 13 November 2009

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[awd]

Thai journalists? Do they exist?

[Steve2UK]

A couple of observations about this "Letter from Phnom Penh" above..........

First is that I'm still reeling with shock that a journalist for an English-language Thai newspaper actually showed the initiative to try "to snake [sneak?] into the meeting venue". Makes me think that there's hope yet - even for something as sad as The Nation.

I could mention that it's also a bit of a surprise to see a Nation writer saying "former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra" rather than what seems to the mandatory "fugitive self-exiled.... etc" formula, but the second (and more serious than the first) observation is actually about the Nation writer's closing line: "What they feared was questions from Thai journalists".

Imagine my (and maybe his?*) surprise to see that the Bangkok Post's reporter encountered no problems putting questions (or at least being present in a group of Thai reporters putting questions) to Thaksin after the lecture. Things being what I understand them to be (I assume there's still no progress on the negotiations, talks, talks about talks.... etc?), I won't post even a link to the story - but it's dated 13/11/2009 in the Local News section of the Post online and thus easy to find. I recommend it - if only to locate another mine of ammunition for those so-minded. According to Bangkok Pundit, it seems to be only the second post-coup interview opportunity Thaksin has given to a Thai journalist (a group of them in this case). The first was the MCOT FM 100.5 radio phone-in last September to Jom (the show's host) who then felt obliged to "resign". Let's hope the Thai journalists present for this Q&A won't feel obliged to do the same.

Two newspapers - two rather different versions of events. Not in itself unique, but it underlines what a pity it is that we still can't even just link (i.e. without quoting text) to the other national English-language Thai newspaper. OK, moan over............ until the next time.

* I can already see two potential lines of defence for him better than "the dog ate my homework" type of thing. I'll keep them to myself for now and wait to see how long it takes before others here come rushing to his support. Sorry, no prizes for coming up with them - and you really ought to include some evidence for anything less speculative than "probably" and "maybe".

[animatic]

Patriotism

–noun

devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.

Origin:

1720–30; patriot + -ism

Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

Faux-Patriotism is not showing love, support and defense of one's country.

I wonder how helping another country that has shot Thai soldiers this year

in border skirmishes is being patriotic to Thailand?

Of course when politics is in the mix the other side is always deemed unpatriotic,

because they have other ideas and ideals.

My country right or wrong, unless it wants me in jail:

Then it's:

time to harrass the government at all times,

and hamstring the judiciary till it acquiesces

and cause street riots,

and divide the country ideologically...

That must be the NEW DEFINITION of Patriotism!

[Ricardo]

Go Dixie Chicks! May they live forever!

The Dixie Chicks are 'awesome', let's hope that they plan to play in Thailand sometime, so that Thaksin is tempted to return to see them display their own form of patriotic free-speach ! (thus linking them to the current thread ... I hope).

[Bagwan]

Thaksin is reported as saying that his political opponents are suffering from "false patriotism" ? Well, I guess that he might be considered an expert on the subject, at that !

How can I link accusations of false patriotism with offering economic advice? I see no connection.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Dixie Chicks?

Please stay within the discussion.

The originating post was totally on point.

Didn't you read it? Are you a mod now?

With 5197 posts to your 123...

I think I have no problem staying on point

without a lecture...

I agree it was on-topic in context. (I didn't understand the point you were making, but there was enough there to make it on topic IMHO. )

I sincerely didn't get it though: Because people like Jane Fonda and the Dixie Chicks are unreasonably villified in extremist conservative circles in the USA, therefore Thaksin should be vilified in Thailand? Was that the message?

To your credit though I do appreciate the comparison.. We've seen Thaksin compared to just about anyone from Hitler and Pol Pot to Ghandi, Aung San and Nelson Mandela. The Dixie Chicks make a great addition.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

Sigh. I think it says a lot more about this publication than about anything else. Anyway, good to see that Postbag guy being productive; I sincerely hope it kept him off the street!

[awd]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

Sigh. I think it says a lot more about this publication than about anything else. Anyway, good to see that Postbag guy being productive; I sincerely hope it kept him off the street!

Not even FOXNews would stoop to this level of childishness! ASTV, maybe!

[Xangsamhua]

Regarding "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - a quip which, simply by being stated, has the form, but not the substance, of an undeniable truth.

This line was not, as widely believed, about patriotism in general, but [in Wikipedia's view] the false use of the term "patriotism" by John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute (the patriot-minister) and his supporters; Johnson opposed "self-professed Patriots" in general, but valued what he considered "true" patriotism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Johnson's_politics

Boswell tells us that Samuel Johnson made this famous pronouncement that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel on the evening of April 7, 1775. He doesn't provide any context for how the remark arose, so we don't really know for sure what was on Johnson's mind at the time.

However, Boswell assures us that Johnson was not indicting patriotism in general, only false patriotism. http://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html

Samuel Johnson's namesake, Paul, former editor of the New Statesman, believes that Dr Johnson had Rousseau's vision of patriotism in mind:

In order to justify his inhuman act of handing over his children to the state, in the shape of the official orphanage, Rousseau was led to argue that the state ought to be responsible for all children, if society was to be improved. For education was the key to any social and moral advance. That being so. it was the concern of the state. The state must form the minds of all, and not just as children but as citizens. The state, by a systematic process of cultural engineering, would inculcate virtue in all. The state was the father, the patrie, and all its citizens were the children of the paternal orphanage. This was what Rousseau meant by patriotism, and it explains a remark by Dr Johnson which has puzzled many but which cut straight through Rousseau's sophistries: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel!"

A couple of other related quotes:

"We, the People, are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who have perverted it." - Abraham Lincoln

"Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." - Napoleon

[animatic]

Dixie Chicks?

Please stay within the discussion.

The originating post was totally on point.

Didn't you read it? Are you a mod now?

With 5197 posts to your 123...

I think I have no problem staying on point

without a lecture...

I agree it was on-topic in context. (I didn't understand the point you were making, but there was enough there to make it on topic IMHO. )

I sincerely didn't get it though: Because people like Jane Fonda and the Dixie Chicks are unreasonably villified in extremist conservative circles in the USA, therefore Thaksin should be vilified in Thailand? Was that the message?

To your credit though I do appreciate the comparison.. We've seen Thaksin compared to just about anyone from Hitler and Pol Pot to Ghandi, Aung San and Nelson Mandela. The Dixie Chicks make a great addition.

Neither the Dixie Chicks nor Jane Fonda actively worked to bring down the government from abroad,

they just publicly stated that they did not like the government, and wanted it's ACTIONS changed.

While Fonda going to North Viet Nam at the time was much more provocative,

it pales in comparision to Thaksin's actions around Songkran,

and this latest escapade of ramping up tensions with Cambodia.

So for Thaksin to claim false patriotism of others

is about as big a porkie as most anything said recently.

[animatic]

Xangsamhua, excellent post.

[Steve2UK]

Xangsamhua, excellent post.

Phew - that's a relief........ thought we were going to get more Jefferson.

[animatic]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

Sigh. I think it says a lot more about this publication than about anything else. Anyway, good to see that Postbag guy being productive; I sincerely hope it kept him off the street!

Not even FOXNews would stoop to this level of childishness! ASTV, maybe!

It was a letter to the editor,

and not the canned bile of FoxNews,

which may be the most biased news source on the planet since TASS.

[awd]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

Sigh. I think it says a lot more about this publication than about anything else. Anyway, good to see that Postbag guy being productive; I sincerely hope it kept him off the street!

Not even FOXNews would stoop to this level of childishness! ASTV, maybe!

It was a letter to the editor,

and not the canned bile of FoxNews,

which may be the most biased news source on the planet since TASS.

Yes, of course, but their decision to print it speaks volumes to the level of their integrity, intelligence and their political leanings.

[animatic]

That was Dr. Johnson, through Boswell, by way of Rousseau

This is Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson 3rd President USA. (1801-1809)

"Patriotism is not a short frenzied burst of emotion, but the long and steady dedication of a lifetime."

"Nothing gives one person so much advantage over another as to remain always cool and unruffled under all circumstances."

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

"It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it."

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to ... remain silent."

"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."

Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today.

[animatic]

From the Bangkok Post's "Letters To The Editor"

Name creates a stink

As the odour of treason wafts into Thailand from Cambodia, it is fascinating to discover that one anagram of ''Thaksin Shinawatra'' is: ''Ah! A stink. Warn Thais.''All along, this whiff of a prophecy has been right under our very noses.

JOHN SHEPHERD

Sigh. I think it says a lot more about this publication than about anything else. Anyway, good to see that Postbag guy being productive; I sincerely hope it kept him off the street!

Not even FOXNews would stoop to this level of childishness! ASTV, maybe!

It was a letter to the editor,

and not the canned bile of FoxNews,

which may be the most biased news source on the planet since TASS.

Yes, of course, but their decision to print it speaks volumes to the level of their integrity, intelligence and their political leanings.

A bit of light humor in the Op Ed pages is usually welcome.

This was political satire.

We certainly didn't need this to point out the Nations political direction.

But ALL papers have a political and social manifesto that their editorial decisions adhere too.

Less so in general to Op Ed pieces.

And if you consider the multiplicity of attacks on The Nation by Thaksin and his various teams while he was in office,

there is little reason to expect they EVER want to see anything but his backside exiting Thailand permanently.

Edited November 15, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

Seems 'certain parties' being true patriots,

try and bomb into silence anyone speaking something they disagree with.

False patriots of course dare to disagree and so deserve to die as traitors...

What a savory logic chain they have.

Now which group has a history of silencing dissenting opinions across the country... hmm?

Hint;

which group, with street branches, gets to run for election in Surat Thani,

and lose badly, but without any harassment of their campaigns,

but get beaten up by their own leaders for asking for reimbursement of campaign funds?

Edited November 15, 2009 by animatic

[awd]

What group doesn't have a history of silencing dissenting opinions?

[brahmburgers]

Allow T to keep spouting off.

Let's hope the media don't make frontline news of his every utterance.

Let's allow T to fade. He's acting desperate mainly because he's so worried about losing the $2.2 million which was frozen. He probably doesn't even want to become PM again, except that re-gaining that position would allow him to retrieve the money, get even filthier rich, and punish his enemies.

The A gov't needs to sit back and take a deep breath - and not give knee jerk reactions to T's shenanigans.

In the bigger picture of things, it might be cool if all SE Asian countries formed a Confederation/Union with open borders, cooperation, and common currency. But people (and their leaders) being as churlish and petty as they are, it won't happen in our or our kids' lifetimes.

[animatic]

"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."

Jefferson.

When has PAD attacked a red shirt rally to silence them?

When has the Democratic Party attacked a PTP rally to prevent them from talking,

or campaigning in their heart land?

PTP was left totally free in Surat Thani to campaign vs the Dems and others,

no harassment at all...

What happens if Abhisit so much as goes up to speak up north?

The preponderance of evidence of violence in action,

points at the Thaksin minion's zealots for their demi-god, demagogue.

[Siripon]

"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."

Jefferson.

When has PAD attacked a red shirt rally to silence them?

When has the Democratic Party attacked a PTP rally to prevent them from talking,

or campaigning in their heart land?

PTP was left totally free in Surat Thani to campaign vs the Dems and others,

no harassment at all...

What happens if Abhisit so much as goes up to speak up north?

The preponderance of evidence of violence in action,

points at the Thaksin minion's zealots for their demi-god, demagogue.

You're right about the violence but unfortunately it was the PAD who began the 'run him out of town' harassment of speakers from the opposing side

during the Somchai government . The red shirts simply copied the techniques ( not being bright enough to think of their own).

[animatic]

Sorry Siripon, but UDD, DAAD, Caravan of the Poor, CM57 et al

were doing this long before PAD did anything even slightly similar.

Not defending PAD, but putting blame where it is due.

[hammered]

If anyone wants some light entertainment there a collection of Steff cartoons posted on the Nation blogs which as always are quite amusing. I dont think I am allowed to post a link so wont, and as a disclaimer I have no connection to the mentioned blog;)