A Tailor -- For A Connaisseur

[gadg]

For years now I've been going out there and trying new tailors based on recommendations from others. And each and every time I've been horribly disappointed and wore it maybe a dozen times. I'd buy new suits 'off the rack' whenever visiting the motherland and those are what I typically wear. I can't imagine there are no really good tailors in this city ... those that reach up to the levels of Italian and British tailors who do bespoke or made-to-measure suits.

So here is my plea for help to anybody out there who considers himself a real connaisseur --

if you too think 99% of tailors here make a suit that feels like a straitjacket, are ridiculously heavy and full and horribly hot ... if you know of names such as Kiton, Attolini and Brioni ... if you have felt the difference between a glued canvas and a floating one ... if you like suits that are cut to the bone, feel as if you're wearing a shirt rather than a jacket, are particular about details and know what you want ... in short, if you are a suit nerd like I am ...

Then I'd like to know where you have your suits made in Bangkok.

[Spaniel]

Here is another one of those recomendations for you: Raja's Tailor, Sukhumvit Road, soi 4 opp. Nana Hotel. just in case you dont find what you're looking for give them a try.

[lectito]

Have you tried "July Tailor"?

[Geekfreaklover]

I've used many and have had suits made in London to compare. I keep going back to Designer Collection on sio 11/1 Sukhumvit. It's important to be part of the process and tell the tailor exactly what you want done with the fabric.

[gadg]

I've used many and have had suits made in London to compare. I keep going back to Designer Collection on sio 11/1 Sukhumvit. It's important to be part of the process and tell the tailor exactly what you want done with the fabric.

Oh very particular about what I want and I will tell the tailor what I want. One tailor on Sukhumvit (Rajawongse) which was recommended by a few people was probably the most horrific experience ever - they ridiculed me to my face and simply refused to do what I asked them to do. The result? I never wear that suit, its like harness that I can put in the corner. Horrible experience.

I've grown a bit weary of Sukhumvit tailors, but considering you can actually afford to have suits made in London I imagine you understand what this is all about. I might just put Designer Collection on my list of potentials.

[Kf6vci]

There is an excellent thread and here is its start. Lonely Planet, Thorntree. Search and you will find it. I take the liberty and post it.

It starts with you not getting the quality cloths / then the sense of style. (I had trousers with the crotch being incredibly low, near my knees which makes normal walking awkward). Excessive shoulder pads. And then - again - the old problem with not getting natural fabrics like pure wool. alas, when there is "cashmere" printed all other the cloth, run, not walk.

There is one Thai tailor who says he is doing floating canvas - I read about him in a Thai magazine as him being HM the King's tailor. July Tailor, I have details somewhere but cannot say I ever used him.

The thread below mentions NARIN as a good but expensive choice.

Given the choice, i would rather use eBay versus the usual BKK tailors.

There are true bespoke garments on eBay!

The usual BKK tailor has some sweat shop do all the work - I watched some deliveries. Most places won't have a sewing machine anywhere on the premises.

These tailors count on a one-time sale.

At the low end, they use 100% polyester for everything, often claiming this to be "Thai silk".

You ought to see the shapeless sorry pants - - -

Enough, let a master speak who has been pursuing quality tailoring in BKK. Hope this is okay, Mods.

TAILORING in THAILAND

If you are planning on having clothes tailored in Thailand or anywhere in Southeast Asia, please read this. So many people get ripped off by this that I am surprised that it is never included in the guides nor has anyone I know of written an good guide to negotiating the pitfalls of this venture. It should be a boxed text in LP Thailand. This attempts to correct that.

The first thing you have to ask yourself when considering having a suit tailored in Southeast Asia is, "What do I expect?" If you have some fantasy about getting a "bespoke" suit equivalent or even close to what is produced by top notch tailors in England, New York, and Naples - then reconsider.

First of all, bespoke means hand sewn - no machines folks. Despite that every Bangkok tailor calls himself bespoke, it just isn't the case. True bespoke work takes a lot of time and I have never seen a tailor anywhere in Asia, except Japan and Hong Kong, that offers this service. This does not mean that a machine made suit can't be superb - it can. It just won't stand up to top international standards. What you can get from some of Asia's better tailors is a bit of hand detail work - and even that is enough to increase the dollar per stitch value of your investment considerably. Bespoke also generally means that you are working directly with the tailor who designs, fits, and cuts the pattern for your garment.

Second, it is important to understand that workmanship is only about 50% of the value of a good suit. The other 50% is material. You could bring all of the tailors of Saville Row to Bangkok and give them a go with a rayon / polyester / sheep ass-wool blend pinstripe and not get a single wearable garment. And, I am not just talking about the fabric, I am also talking about the thread, the interfacing, the lining, etc... You can't make a 60 dollar suit anywhere in the world using anything except crap material. A suit made of bad material will look like you found it in a ditch after one use because this sort of material simply can't hold its shape or structure.

Third factor is workmanship. Most of the shops that advertise themselves as "tailors" are not tailors, but material salesman. They take your measurements and pass them on to actual tailors who do the work. So, already, you are not getting bespoke, but "made-to-measure" which is a whole different category of tailoring. Most of the people who do the actual "sewing" of your suits you will never see, don't speak a word of English, and don't know much at all about making a good suit. So you are out of luck and will inevitably get a poorly fashioned garment. Remember, top tailors don't apprentice for eight to ten years because making suits is easy. As a general rule, anyone who stands outside their shop trying to get you to come in and "have a look" isn't a good tailor. There is for example a pretty good tailor near Khao San. How do you find him? Look for the guy without any fancy signs or picture who is in his shop sewing instead of out on the street harassing passersby.

Fourth factor is time. Yes, despite 24 hour turn around guarantees, it does take time to make a good suit. Making a good suit requires shaping, pressing, reshaping, stitching, shaping, pressing reshaping, etc... until it is perfect. There are also several necessary fittings before a final product can be arrived at. Minimum turn around time at a proper tailor who is making a suit only for you - 2 weeks.

Fifth, design sensibility. Most tailors in Asia have absolutely no design sensibility or if they have one, it is very different from your own. You simply cannot trust a tailor in Asia, as you can trust a tailor on Saville row or in Naples, to read your mind and produce the garment that you really want. Here, you have to ASK for EVERYTHING that you want. Now ask yourself, are you in a position to do so - to even know what you want? Well, if you can walk into a shop and say you want a "single breasted three button roll to two button double vented jacket with peak lapels, a natural shoulder, high small arm holes, high waist suppression, floating canvas, a patch left breast pocket, angled side flap side pockets, with a ticket pocket on the right", then you might be ok. If not, copy this and tell them, became it is probably what you want anyway. The problem is, if you don't know what it means and why and if your tailor does not speak perfect English, you still won't be able to communicate what you need to get a good suit.

One warning, tailors in Thailand, even the good ones, love big shoulder pads. This is probably because Thais are naturally small in the chest and shoulders. If you are even a moderately build westerner this can make you look like a football player. You most likely want some shoulder padding, just strongly impress on the tailor to use VERY SMALL shoulder pads.

So, is it hopeless? What can you do? There actually are good tailors in Bangkok. Most are on Sukimvit around Asok and Nana BMT stations. The best I've found is Narin Couture, but others are also quite skilled and a little dedication and research can turn them out. This doesn't mean that you'll get what you want, but at least you won't get robbed. Look for a tailor that uses 100% wool fabrics from Japan or Europe or bring your own. To test if wool is 100% wool, take a swatch of it and light it with a match. Wool will smell organic and burn a bit. A synthetic with cumble and melt like a plastic fork in a fire. A good tailor will work with your frabrics just as happily as he will sell you his own. His work is making clothes, not selling overpriced synthetics.

Not to equate money with value, but sad to say, if you are not ready to spend around 400 USD for good custom tailored suit (this includes fabric), I doubt you will get something worth while. This is about 4 times the street price from the Indian tout-tailors, but at least here you are not waisting your money and will get a garment you can wear frequently and which will stand up in a formal situation. If you are not willing to spend this much, a ready-made product is the way to go. There is nothing inherently wrong with clothing manufactured for companies like Zara, Banana Republic, or the Gap. These clothes usually use 100% wool or cotton, are well made, and designed to fit almost everyone. And if they don't fit you perfectly, that is when a cheap tailor can really come in handy.

Shirts are one place when you can do very well in Southeast Asia. I have had shirts made from several tailors in Bangkok, Laos, and in Vietnam, and many have stood the test. I have taken several Bangkok made shrits to top tailors in New York and London and they were frequently impressed with the products. Better tailors will have a good selection of 100% cotton (there is great cotton shirting made locally as well as in Japan and China) fabrics and charge about 20 - 30 USD plus fabric to stitch a shirt. If your tailor does not have 100% cotton (the burn test works here too) then use another tailor. If your tailor does offer 100% cotton, there is still no reason not to go to Sampeng Lane and purchase your own shirting. I have found cotton fabrics there for as little as 6 USD per meter that are being sold not so far away at the elite Siam Paragon for 75 USD per meter! The merchants there also tend to be honest about fabric quality and composition. Another test, take a bit of the fabric and try to rip it. If it tears easily - it is bad fabric. Also, think about design. Several photos or a sample of a shirt you love is a good way to go. It is not a bad idea to buy a shirt for any amount of money necessary to use as a sample. With a good sample, the tailors of Thailand can generally produce a magnificent copy with all of the improvements you might ask for. Pants also tend to be done well here and follow the same rules. In general, be careful with suits, jackets, and overcoats.

Good luck with your tailoring. I am happy to answer any questions you might have regarding tailoring or this post at [email protected].

Best,

Kevin

[gadg]

There is one Thai tailor who says he is doing floating canvas - I read about him in a Thai magazine as him being HM the King's tailor. July Tailor, I have details somewhere but cannot say I ever used him.

Great post, very helpful and great to see somebody doing an honest write-up confirming what I've experienced so far. If you do happen to stumble upon those details of July Tailor, I'd like to go and have a chat with them. Would be much appreciated!

[SebD]

Here is another one of those recomendations for you: Raja's Tailor, Sukhumvit Road, soi 4 opp. Nana Hotel. just in case you dont find what you're looking for give them a try.

Raja's don't make the clothes. All they do is take the measurements and cloth details, client requirements etc.

My other half and I, over a beer, got chatting to one of the guys who collects the suit-bags each evening and returns them each morning (he also collects from the Majestic Tailors around the corner and about 20 or 30 other shops.

Many (most?) of these shops purporting to be "Master-Tailors" are anything but.

They simply sub-contract the actual cutting/sewing work out to mass-produce, sweat shop, factories.

Same goes for most tattooists.

None of them seem to be artists anymore, all simply tracing a design onto your body and filling the ink in - a la "painting-by-numbers" - (the stencils and the ink are even colour coded).

To test this, see how quickly the tattoo "artist" loses interest if you ask for something unique that isn't in his tracing paper collection. Rarely can a proper freehand artist be found. Rarely can a proper tailor be found.

I'm sure (or, at least I'd like to think) that they do exist, somewhere and will watch this Thread with interest in the hope of finding one for myself.

Edited November 15, 2009 by SebD

[A_Traveller]

July has a website, much to my surprise. They moved down the road a few years ago, but are easy to find even if the site's map hasn't been updated. They are the penultimate shop on the right as you come from Silom Road and their new neighbour is the dental clinic on the corner of Saladeng 2.

Regards

Edited November 15, 2009 by A_Traveller

[Geekfreaklover]

Yes it is worth bearing in mind that, for example, 40 tailor shops along Sukhumvit will use the same sweatshop factory to make the suit.

First of all choose the fabric. Make sure it is a good fabric. It is easy to tell by touch.

Second make sure that the Indian tailor understands what design you want. Be very specific about what you want done with the fabric.

Thirdly make sure that there is good communication between the Indian merchant and the Thai tailor.

And then make sure you have at least three fittings. And DON'T follow the advice of the tailor if your trousers are too baggy or the jacket is too long. Tell them to fix it.

A good suit that is taliored should cost about 10k baht with a deposit of 1k. The chaps I use travel oversees to sell their garments.

The suit will probably be made by machine by sweatshop workers, but if you find the right tailor with the right connections you can get a very good suit for a fraction of the price in the west. Not as good, but a good suit nonetheless.

There is a difference between bespoke and tailored, but there is also a difference between tailored and off-the-peg. You can get a good deal in Bangkok if you get lucky with a good tailor shop.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[JimmyTheMook]

As noted 99% of the storefronts just take the orders and have some "sweatshop" produce the items , best off find the shophouse where the garments are sewn and have them make something for you.

Here in Pattaya the majority of them are tucked away behind Tukcom and they are more than happy to work directly with you.

[MiG16]

As noted 99% of the storefronts just take the orders and have some "sweatshop" produce the items , best off find the shophouse where the garments are sewn and have them make something for you.

it is certainly the case that the tailor shops dont do the work (except for perhaps a few run by Chinese Thai on Bangrak perhaps?)

but finding the 'factory' will not do you much good.

they wont have the fabric for you to choose, most of the time will not be able to speak to you in English, let alone talk about the style.

I know cos there used to be one of such factory a few shops down from me

I cant remember any of the names, but there is one on Silom road that did a decent job. its towards the river side, opposite side to State Tower.

many years ago used on on Rajaprarob road (thats just past Pratunam Market) - ok price, good work, but they have less variety of fabrics in my opinion

have used Raja on Soi 4 as well. didnt get suits done at the time, just shirts. had many other fussy friends get their shirts done there, and they were all very happy. However, my experience was about 10 years ago....hoping they havent changed

[JSixpack]

I can't imagine there are no really good tailors in this city ... those that reach up to the levels of Italian and British tailors who do bespoke or made-to-measure suits.

What an incredible dearth of imagination then.

Always the expectation that Thailand isn't really Thailand.

[RakJungTorlae]

[Kf6vci]

July Tailor, 30 / 6 Saladang Road, 10500 Bangkok. Phone 02 233 0171

From another thread, i know that NARIN is expensive but good.

FYI, you might be able to pick up some 100% woven silk jacket or

other fine fabric by searching on eBay for a cloth brand like Dormeuil.

This is contrary to the OP's intentions, but the majority might actually get something better on eBay at half the price.

Off the peg stuff for 50 Euros, with original prices being often 750 and higher.

one last warning:

never place a bulk order with an unknown tailor!!

Prices: on your 2nd or 3rd visit, they often get slashed dramatically.

This applies to one of the usual places, where the sales staff is trained at flattery, not tailoring or Alas, cutting.

Value: our body shapes may differ. I find trousers to be worth while, unlike jackets. Suits are

very critical and an order might end as a disaster.

Here is a link for the OP: http://www.englishcut.com read it all, if you have the time and inclination

Cheers,

Chris

[somluck]

Any comments about James Taylor? Have heard very good and very bad comments about them. Bill Clinton apparently was one of their famous customers

[Huey]

To the OP a genuine Thank You. Your post opened my eyes to what a real suit should be. I'm not yet what I would consider wealthy but, I like to think that I enjoy some nice things and places in life. I am making a goal, that ,I will eventually own a K-50. Wow what a thing a beauty.

Thanks for turning me on to that. It's like when my old friend opened my eyes up to Patek Phillipe. 5102G baby, it's coming

[Kan Win]

Here is another one of those recomendations for you: Raja's Tailor, Sukhumvit Road, soi 4 opp. Nana Hotel. just in case you dont find what you're looking for give them a try.

Yep would recommend this place any and every time.

Kan Win

[gadg]

Here is a link for the OP: http://www.englishcut.com read it all, if you have the time and inclination

Thanks for that Chris. I had already seen the BBC series Savile Row, but this was a nice one to watch as well. I wish I could afford a suit from guys like this, but frankly thats out of my reach at the moment. And I guess expecting performance at that level is out of the question here in Bangkok. But thats what I'm looking for, as close as possible to the master tailors of Savile Row.

[gadg]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I'll be visiting 4 different tailors over the next few weeks that I've collected from this thread and friends who's judgement I trust. I'll have a chat with them, look at their work, see who I feel most comfortable with and post back here my findings. I'll then go ahead and order a shirt perhaps -- while shirts and suits are very different things, quality in one product may be a good indicator of quality in the more expensive one. And then if I've found it to be acceptable, I'll order a suit. No need for a rushed decision, thats what has gotten me an entire wardrobe of Bangkok made suits I never ever wear.

I think I'm fairly fluent in the language and I certainly know what I want. But if any of you guys have any suggestions for the type of questions to ask or things to look for, feel free to suggest them. Some of you clearly know what you're talking about. Not things like "burn a piece of cloth to see if its real wool", but rather how I can tell the quality of a floating canvas for example or what trick questions I could ask to see if the guy really knows his stuff. Help would be much appreciated.

[rowley]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I'll be visiting 4 different tailors over the next few weeks that I've collected from this thread and friends who's judgement I trust. I'll have a chat with them, look at their work, see who I feel most comfortable with and post back here my findings. I'll then go ahead and order a shirt perhaps -- while shirts and suits are very different things, quality in one product may be a good indicator of quality in the more expensive one. And then if I've found it to be acceptable, I'll order a suit. No need for a rushed decision, thats what has gotten me an entire wardrobe of Bangkok made suits I never ever wear.

I think I'm fairly fluent in the language and I certainly know what I want. But if any of you guys have any suggestions for the type of questions to ask or things to look for, feel free to suggest them. Some of you clearly know what you're talking about. Not things like "burn a piece of cloth to see if its real wool", but rather how I can tell the quality of a floating canvas for example or what trick questions I could ask to see if the guy really knows his stuff. Help would be much appreciated.

Would love to know how your visits to four different tailors went. At the referral of a longtime resident of BK I used to use Ambassador on Suk Soi 19 about three years ago. They used to do good work and made some fantastic linen pants for my wife that have endured her constant dry cleaning. But this fall I used them and their workmanship has gone way downhill and their choice of materials is nothing but the copy fabric from China. I tried Savile Row at the rose hotel for kicks just to see what a 89 euro suit looked like. The short story on that is it looks like crap and is a full 1 1/2" too narrow in the shoulders despite a long discussion about my shoulder width being 19" they told me they would fix it but never did. I have been using Pinky Tailors and he is the only tailor in BK that actually admits that copy fabrics exist BUT he does price the cheap fabric accordingly and has really nice Barberis and Zegna fabrics for a jump in price....and that is the way it should be. I recently had Mr. Pinky make two suits and a hacking jacket and I am very pleased with his workmanship.

In summation I give Pinky Tailors a thumbs up! Ambassador a thumbs down and Savile Row Tailor TWO THUMBS DOWN!!!!

[Kf6vci]

www.englishcut.com and read the Lonely Planet Thorntree threat. there a real experts names Narin Couture but confesses he only uses Bangkok tailors for pants and shirts. And to get the shirts he wants took him like 2 dozen (he chooses MILAN under the Asoke BTS for t6hose and buys his own buttons around the corner).

Myself, I gave up on suits and jackets - try eBay, you will find the odd floating canvas suit there. Or get some hardly used top jacket from Kiton or XY. If you know your measurements, this might lead to a better $ 50 + shipping garment than what maybe $ 300 would buy in a shop.

The cloth is important - Loro Piana, Dormeuil, Scabal... While most tailors here have CASHMERE printed, but then the same guys sell polyester as "Thai silk".

But since you ask for a recommendation, I would go to NARIN Couture, but be prepared to pay big bucks. At least, you will get a quality cloth and something worth your money instead of rubbish.

[SebD]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I'll be visiting 4 different tailors over the next few weeks that I've collected from this thread and friends who's judgement I trust. I'll have a chat with them, look at their work, see who I feel most comfortable with and post back here my findings. I'll then go ahead and order a shirt perhaps -- while shirts and suits are very different things, quality in one product may be a good indicator of quality in the more expensive one. And then if I've found it to be acceptable, I'll order a suit. No need for a rushed decision, thats what has gotten me an entire wardrobe of Bangkok made suits I never ever wear.

I think I'm fairly fluent in the language and I certainly know what I want. But if any of you guys have any suggestions for the type of questions to ask or things to look for, feel free to suggest them. Some of you clearly know what you're talking about. Not things like "burn a piece of cloth to see if its real wool", but rather how I can tell the quality of a floating canvas for example or what trick questions I could ask to see if the guy really knows his stuff. Help would be much appreciated.

And?

(It's been well over year, now, and some of us guys are interested in your findings - which was promised).

[MEGALITHIC]

I've been i Thailand for 18 years. I've tried Tailors in Phuket, Pattaya and Bangkok. I've been to, supposedly, the best Tailors up and down Sukhumvit; Narry's on Soi Eleven and one shop near the Dubliner that apparently made clothes for Steven Seagal. In all cases I found that there was something not quite right with their work. These days I just go to the 2nd floor (mens wear) of the dept store at the Emporium and buy what I need off the rack. I picked up a xxxl PC suit on special for 13000 baht; best fitting suit I've ever bought. They will always adjust the length of the trousers and will even iron your new shirts if you ask them. Indian Tailors? no thanks.

Edited October 25, 2011 by MEGALITHIC

[wandrinstar]

I've been i Thailand for 18 years. I've tried Tailors in Phuket, Pattaya and Bangkok. I've been to, supposedly, the best Tailors up and down Sukhumvit; Narry's on Soi Eleven and one shop near the Dubliner that apparently made clothes for Steven Seagal. In all cases I found that there was something not quite right with their work. These days I just go to the 2nd floor (mens wear) of the dept store at the Emporium and buy what I need off the rack. I picked up a xxxl PC suit on special for 13000 baht; best fitting suit I've ever bought. They will always adjust the length of the trousers and will even iron your new shirts if you ask them. Indian Tailors? no thanks.

Well said , my exact findings too. If you are bigger than a Garden Gnome , buy a Brand.

[endure]

Buy yourself a ticket to London and visit either Gieves & Hawkes or Huntsman.

[kurnell]

I have been here for 17 years and have used 10+ tailors (including the famous Rajas, soi 4) and have found that the quality is equally poor. I have paid for supposedly quality material with the same result. The last tailor I used assured me the material would not melt under the hottest iron, due to the quality of the material, but once again it was a lie. So, I think I am fully qualified to say that all tailors are poor in Bangkok, and I will only ever buy off the rack whenever I am in Singapore or Australia, as Thai suits/pants off the rack in Thailand for my size are always a poor fit.

[SebD]

Too true, guys. Reminds me of when I met an old friend in a "Genltleman's Club" once. I was suited (nice suit, too - but off-the-peg) and he left no time in telling me that his was a mohair hand-cut saville row jobbie. He then showed me his watch. "How much do you think I paid for that?" he asked. "No idea" I replied. "Two and a half grand" (Sterling, fifteen years ago) he said. "What time you got?" I asked. ""11:20" he said. I looked at my £70 wrist-band and said "Funny that. So do I".

Conversation pretty much over. Nothing left to talk about except comparing underwear, so I made my excuses.

[Pontare]

I've had shirts done at Narin, and they did a good job. The owner can come across as arrogant (educated in France), but the workmanship was great, he will listen to your wishes, and the clothes are made in-house. Don't know if he can do a proper suit though. Also a bit expensive, at 2500B per shirt, but well worth it imo.

I also had shirts done at Raja that so many people seem to recommend, not happy, they didn't listen to what I wanted and made shirts I rarely use.

[melvinmelvin]

Agree with what you said about Raja, they don't listen.

And that goes for many Sukh tailors, they just do not listen to what you request.

Here is a tailor shop which at least have some aboslutely fantastic fabrics, applies to cotton as well as wools:

All Season Place (or is is it Plaza?) wall to wall with Conrad Hotel on Wireless road,

2nd floor, name of shop Dfine.

The fabrics are VERY VERY good (but it will cost you) whether or not you like the cut/tailoring is another issue.

I'd say if you don't have years of experience with tailored clothes and know exactly what makes you happy,

don't make clothes in LoS, buy in dept stores.