Bangkok Expressway Easy Pass Fails Test, Put On Hold

[dumball]

Fabdial' date='2009-11-16 21:55:32' post='3144768']='bwalker1973' post='3144554' date='2009-11-16 19:55:32']Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

Do not forget! Almost all students get easily their Engineer Diploma. They are all engineers but they're still not able to speak English.

It's almost impossible to find a REAL and QUALIFIED Thai programmer. A real good software programmer does not need a 20 years experience, he only needs to use his brain, and that's quite a challenge for Thai engineers.

So you are also of the opinion that many diplomas/certificates of qualification etc , belong on a nail in a specific spot on the wall of a toilet .

My first boss was a believer in this philosophy , do the job for a week , if you are asked to return on Monday , your qualified .

[nowork114]

Stop complaining about the program - it cost 199 B in Pantip

[lubbkis]

Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

T.I.T. Third world country... NAFC...

Yes Nothing EVER EVER goes wrong in developed countries! Give me a break.

:¬} Wry smile from someone who tried to pay the London Congestion Charge this morning and had to re-register. I gather it's been troublesome since they migrated to a different provider.

Maybe it'd be cheaper if they just let the motorists on the road without the silly tolls.

[raylo]

Bet my dollars on them using Microsoft...sigh...

Give me your dollars. Not only is 'Microsoft' not a product but a company, they rarely do any contract-assignments as this one [or any of any kind anymore]. It is more in the line of IBM and many other large companies. However, knowing Thailand, this was most likely performed by a minor locally rooted company and the difference pocketed...

Correct about Microsoft and I have yet to see or hear of IBM & similar doing anything major ( and many minors) right or on time. If you want to experience the mother of all cock ups - watch a SAP implementation. Millions in overuns.

Give the TIT crap a miss. If any of you live in Thailand appreciate it, stop knocking it and as many other posters have identified it takes a 1st world country to screw these projects up so far it makes any screw up in Asia look like a pimple compared to a volcanoe.

Please name a country that you have seen not screw a project like this up. How many years has Singapore had the systems running and you compare. Stay there and live in your dream world.

[andrewfr]

After 30++ years in this fascinating country I am running short of words to describe the manifest ineptitude of the people who claim to be running it. Sad, so very sad!

[mortenaa]

Bet my dollars on them using Microsoft...sigh...

About re-inventing the wheel...they do that in Holland all the time, can't blame Thailand for that.

As for Singapore being a bit further ahead...and even .... cough cough... Malaysia...cough...

It's all because Thailand doesn't have 3G yet....h

They didn't re-invent the wheel. They bought the whole solution from Q-Free ASA, which is a Norwegian company, that developed similar systems in Norway and other countries around the world ..

http://www.q-free.com/index.php?option=com...&Itemid=242

[mortenaa]

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

Well, maybe you should actually have some knowledge about the topic before posting rubbish.

[747gmm]

Bet my dollars on them using Microsoft...sigh...

Give me your dollars. Not only is 'Microsoft' not a product but a company, they rarely do any contract-assignments as this one [or any of any kind anymore]. It is more in the line of IBM and many other large companies. However, knowing Thailand, this was most likely performed by a minor locally rooted company and the difference pocketed...

Does Mickey Mouse wear an "Easy Pass" watch?

[mortenaa]

Maybe they just tried to advance too fast. Instead of a computerized system .. they should have started off with simple coin operated gates like they have on the Sydney Harbor Bridge. (It has the RF Comp System as well in some lanes)

Drive up to the gate .. throw 4 x 10 Baht coins or whatever in the basket .. light goes green .. gate raises .. off you go. No human toll collector needed.

Same company did Sydney

[thetravellingcat]

I keep asking for a "shaking head in disbelief" emicon. This one will have to do

How about this one: or this:

then there is the classic MSN 'sarcasm' emote which i've used before to represent 'really?'

and this gem:

Edited November 16, 2009 by thetravellingcat

[teytree]

Nothing works flawlessly the first first. Things happens. Like an earlier post said, the passport, ID, and driver's licence system nowadays works great. So just wait and see if they fix it before complaining.

[tbeaver]

Easy Pass is used extensively in US States for collecting tools. When it was first rolled out in NJ, it was a disaster and cost hundreds of millions. Another company took it over and worked out the kinks. Of course users get charged an extra fee for the 'convenience' of paying their tolls prior to using the roadway!

[NanLaew]

in the meantime i will continue to take advantage of the booth with the red light on and no cars in line at din daeng

Just back from Singapore. Now they are exchanging their old e-link cards, so now it not only works on the MRT and busses but also on the ERP tollroad system, schoolchildren can purchase their schoollunch at schools with the new card and shopping in 7-Eleven. It would be nice if the Thai authorities could make a study on that.

...or if you stayed in Singapore and kept the silly comparisons to yourself.

Edited November 16, 2009 by NanLaew

[plaaduk]

Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

Do not forget! Almost all students get easily their Engineer Diploma. They are all engineers but they're still not able to speak English.

It's almost impossible to find a REAL and QUALIFIED Thai programmer. A real good software programmer does not need a 20 years experience, he only needs to use his brain, and that's quite a challenge for Thai engineers.

Is speaking English a pre-requisite to be a good engineer? Engineers from Japan or from China do not speak English and they can still produce software or hardware

as good as anywhere else in the world!

[OxfordWill]

It proved flawless until they found that it wasn't...

Is this a local product?

Edited November 17, 2009 by OxfordWill

[asiawatcher]

Everything was working fine until - human interference - means the toll collectors can't skim a little here and there - same as the Police who ran the electronics traffic lights systems in 1997. All was fine when sinked up - flow became normal and then - no earn for the brown shirts - so they started flicking buttons and the system was scrapped.

The only reason there are traffic jambs on expressways is the toll booth - and it will continue as the present system will be milked for all its worth as long as they can.

The traffic jambs in Bangkok are a direct result of police overriding the traffic lights running long periods between changes - third world or not - this all comes down to education.

In a final - think of the poor kids in the toll booths who suck up that pollution every time a car takes off. The electronic tag cards are ESSENTIAL for the lives of those people and their families. If a toll has to be collected then it should be an atmospheric pressurised booth to keep the pollution out to elongate their lives and lungs.

[lensta]

Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

T.I.T. Third world country... NAFC...

Yes Nothing EVER EVER goes wrong in developed countries! Give me a break.

Of course things go wrong in developed countries but in most cases developed countries test the new system thoroughly before they start charging people to use it, not charge people to test it. Also I guess people are so synical because of all the other shi t that is going on here, this just seems like one more thing to add to the ever mounting pile of problems facing Thailand.

[lensta]

Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

Apparently this upgrade costed them more than USD20m to implement.

Sure it did. Breakdown of expenses: 10 million USD to implement, 10 million in kickbacks

[scotbeve]

After 30++ years in this fascinating country I am running short of words to describe the manifest ineptitude of the people who claim to be running it. Sad, so very sad!

I'm just coming up to my 30th year here as well Andrew and surprisingly enough, I don't have a bald patch on one side of my head that's become the scratching spot whenever I see something even more Thai than normal

[thaimite]

Having worked for a number of years in major IT and infrastructure projects in Thailand and elsewhere is SE Asia I have dealt with engineers from many nationalities such as Thai, Indian, Philippino and Chinese as well as many from western countries

From experience I can state that there are some very good Thai engineers, (and some very poor ones) just like anywhere else.

However they are disadvantaged by poor English, poor management and when working locally reduced budget caused by kickbacks. Often the product selected is not the best one, but the one that pays the best commission Many times this is a smaller company trying to make a name in the region, without sufficient experience.

It should also be noted that most prestigious projects open when the politicians say it will no matter how ready or otherwise the engineers say they are. The time allocated for proper testing is nearly always cut short, because it starts late due to delays in installation, but still always has to finish when the politicians say so. You would be surprised at the number prestigious projects that open without fully tested and functional systems.

On my last project in the ME some software engineers from Thailand were employed by a major international company because of experience they gained at Suvarnabhumi (and of course price) and it was generally agreed that they were far superior to the ones found locally.

So lets stop knocking Thai engineers and help them improve by impating our experience.

To one other poster I would say, that a certificate in programming does not make you a good programmer. Anybody can learn a computer language, but the ability to understand the issues and find and implement the correct solution comes from practice and experience. Once the solution is clearly identified then it is time to pass it on to a code monkey with the fancy ceritificate and no experince to implement.

Finally it is often not the software that is at fault, but poor operator training or unforeseen external events so without all the facts lets not make hast judgements on the ability or otherwise of our hosts.

Edited November 17, 2009 by thaimite

[Brewsta]

done lotsa work thru the aeons for Microsoft,IBM,HP et al......UK, Europe, US, etc....

you gotta pay lots more thn $20m USD to acquire this scale of flukup, trust me !

rgdz,

Brewsta

[orosee]

in the meantime i will continue to take advantage of the booth with the red light on and no cars in line at din daeng

Just back from Singapore. Now they are exchanging their old e-link cards, so now it not only works on the MRT and busses but also on the ERP tollroad system, schoolchildren can purchase their schoollunch at schools with the new card and shopping in 7-Eleven. It would be nice if the Thai authorities could make a study on that.

...or if you stayed in Singapore and kept the silly comparisons to yourself.

How is that a "silly comparison"? Do you think Thailand is so far behind Singapore that they could not implement a pay card system that can be universally used in mass transport, toll collection and payments in convenience stores, bar fines etc.? Apart from S'pore similar systems already exist in Korea (T-Money), Hong Kong (Octopus card) and I'm sure several other countries, widely accepted and much more convenient than using coins and small notes. As far as road tolls go, I'm all for the Korean system which allows you to drive through the gate at 40 (recommended) to 80 km/h (any faster and you'll probably hit the barrier before it snaps up).

I certainly did not love the old Bangkok system where you had to slow down to a crawl all the time to see if your blue gadget worked, and frequently back up 20 meters because the driver in front of you had one that didn't work at that time. I sure hope they make 8 out of 10 gates electronic toll only.

Anyway NanLaew, <deleted>

[Scott]

Most other countries are careful about introducing a plan like this. It is tested for quite sometime, including practical tests. Here, because of all the gov't fanfare, the screw ups are known to the whole world.

[Dakhar]

Remember, this is the same country that feels its ready to build a nuclear reactor....

Ohhhh boy.... that is exactly what I was thinking.

[aslimversgwm]

Having worked for a number of years in major IT and infrastructure projects in Thailand and elsewhere is SE Asia I have dealt with engineers from many nationalities such as Thai, Indian, Philippino and Chinese as well as many from western countries

From experience I can state that there are some very good Thai engineers, (and some very poor ones) just like anywhere else.

However they are disadvantaged by poor English, poor management and when working locally reduced budget caused by kickbacks. Often the product selected is not the best one, but the one that pays the best commission Many times this is a smaller company trying to make a name in the region, without sufficient experience.

It should also be noted that most prestigious projects open when the politicians say it will no matter how ready or otherwise the engineers say they are. The time allocated for proper testing is nearly always cut short, because it starts late due to delays in installation, but still always has to finish when the politicians say so. You would be surprised at the number prestigious projects that open without fully tested and functional systems.

On my last project in the ME some software engineers from Thailand were employed by a major international company because of experience they gained at Suvarnabhumi (and of course price) and it was generally agreed that they were far superior to the ones found locally.

So lets stop knocking Thai engineers and help them improve by impating our experience.

To one other poster I would say, that a certificate in programming does not make you a good programmer. Anybody can learn a computer language, but the ability to understand the issues and find and implement the correct solution comes from practice and experience. Once the solution is clearly identified then it is time to pass it on to a code monkey with the fancy ceritificate and no experince to implement.

Finally it is often not the software that is at fault, but poor operator training or unforeseen external events so without all the facts lets not make hast judgements on the ability or otherwise of our hosts.

At last, someone who really knows his subject. A realistic response rather than the usual knee-jerk reaction from the 'knock Thailand, we do it much better elsewhere brigade', who constantly forget why they are living here rather than back in their so wonderful home countries. I love it here despite everything. Not long returned from UK after a 5 week visit - I couldn't wait to come back and escape the bad weather, rude people, poor food and absolutely everything at rip-off prices. Here's to the wonderful climate, people, food and proces of Thailand - forget the rest for goodness sake. Get a life!

[HowardV]

Wait!!! Am I reading this right? Did I just read that people who prepaid are getting a discount off the rates when the system starts up? Are they actually saying that although the system isn't working, they're still going to deduct payment as though they were already operating and functioning? Meaning, if somebody paid up three months and it takes them four to get the system going, they will "credit" that person with the first three months, so they don't have to pay for those three months during which they never got to use the service anyway?

Well, that's really nice. Is that what I'm reading? Because that sounds like a total crock.

It was worded quite nicely, but I think what I'm reading is that people end up paying for a service they don't get, and that when the system gets running, they will only have the remaining days they've prepaid left. They're actually being charged while the system is down, but someone has found a way to say that they are receiving discounts once it starts working. Isn't that what I'm reading?

Lesson: NEVER prepay in a society where systems are secondary to personalities because there is an opportunity for breakdown in the system at every employment level.

[HowardV]

We cannot expect what would work in the West to work in Thailand, because the Thais do not regard systems, laws or rules in the same way that Westerners do. Everything is negotiable, it's all in the relationship. "You can't trust him, he'd arrest his friends," a Thai says of a farang cop. "You can't trust him, he plays favorites," the Westerner says of the Thai policeman. Systems break down in this type of environment.

I consider Coca-Cola to be a fairly well established corporation, I imagine they have their systems down, I imagine they have procedures for nearly every aspect of their operation, from outfitting shops to ordering and delivering. I opened a restaurant last year, was planning a grand opening and decided to go with Coke for my soft drinks and signs, including my grand opening banner that would go in the front of the store. I got lots of promises that it would be there, that it was coming, that it was on its way, but I was put off five weeks longer than I was told, and I was waiting on a cloth banner that someone made by hand. The sales rep kept on about how it wasn't his fault, the sign shop was backed up, etc., etc. I even offered to pay for it myself just to get it done. But after two weeks, no progress had been made, and I realized it wasn't Coca-Cola, it was this one guy f**ing things up because he wasn't responsible and wasn't able to deliver on what he'd promised. I tried to be patient. I put off my grand opening three weeks. Finally, I just had the celebration without Coke.

But I kept waiting for the other signs they'd promised, the menus, etc. I even did my shop in red and white to keep the themes going. After five weeks I still had nothing, not a menu, not a sign, not a promotional sticker, and definitely not my grand opening banner. So I told the rep if he didn't have my stuff to me by that Friday, I was cancelling the contract with Coke and putting their refrigerator on the curb. Friday came and went without so much as a phone call. It took five weeks for me to finally decide he didn't deserve my business, but it was less than 24 hours between the time I notified him his refrigerator was on the curb and when he came and picked it up. This is not Coca-Cola. This is not the work of an international multi-billion dollar corporation known in every household. This is one man doing as so many do: putting himself and his needs above the system, creating a broken link in the chain. I've switched to Pepsi and everytime I pass that guy, I always make a point to ask him if he still has a job, and if he does, I make a note that Coke is still compromised because they've got weak links like that working for them.

Funny thing is, the Coke guy never really accepted that he'd done me wrong. In the end, he told my wife, "I don't understand. I've never had a problem like this with any of our other clients." Nice work, dude. Ruin my first five weeks of operations, leave me hanging, totally disrespect me, lie to me repeatedly, ignore my phone calls, skip appointments, and then when I am upset, act as though I'm out of line and compare me to others who were more mai pen rai about it. Not the work of an international corporation. We must realize where we are.

Edited November 17, 2009 by HowardV

[pisico]

Having worked for a number of years in major IT and infrastructure projects in Thailand and elsewhere is SE Asia I have dealt with engineers from many nationalities such as Thai, Indian, Philippino and Chinese as well as many from western countries

From experience I can state that there are some very good Thai engineers, (and some very poor ones) just like anywhere else.

However they are disadvantaged by poor English, poor management and when working locally reduced budget caused by kickbacks. Often the product selected is not the best one, but the one that pays the best commission Many times this is a smaller company trying to make a name in the region, without sufficient experience.

It should also be noted that most prestigious projects open when the politicians say it will no matter how ready or otherwise the engineers say they are. The time allocated for proper testing is nearly always cut short, because it starts late due to delays in installation, but still always has to finish when the politicians say so. You would be surprised at the number prestigious projects that open without fully tested and functional systems.

On my last project in the ME some software engineers from Thailand were employed by a major international company because of experience they gained at Suvarnabhumi (and of course price) and it was generally agreed that they were far superior to the ones found locally.

So lets stop knocking Thai engineers and help them improve by impating our experience.

To one other poster I would say, that a certificate in programming does not make you a good programmer. Anybody can learn a computer language, but the ability to understand the issues and find and implement the correct solution comes from practice and experience. Once the solution is clearly identified then it is time to pass it on to a code monkey with the fancy certificate and no experince to implement.

Finally it is often not the software that is at fault, but poor operator training or unforeseen external events so without all the facts lets not make hast judgements on the ability or otherwise of our hosts.

You are right. It is not the best product the one chosen: the one that yields more kickbacks for politicians and their friends will always be the best product. In Los Angeles California, a subway system has been under construction since the 70s and it is yet to have more than 15 stations. There was a more viable, faster and cheaper alternative like the BTS in Bangkok but it was discarded because a major company was in bed with the then mayor of the city and got the contract. Your assessment of that defines a good engineer is correct.

Criticism of this particular system failure emanates from lack of knowledge or understanding of the issue.

However, the mechanical system of coin bucket activating a gate (a proven and fairly reliable system) although it is more prone to wear and tear and requiring periodic maintenance would have been cheaper and available from many sources but yielding no kickbacks.

It is also true that politicians are the ones setting deadlines without understanding the quirks of the matter and treat the issue as if it was paying a bill on a specific date. Most politicians are that way. We have a big blunder in the White House that is trying to do exactly that with a socialist "Health Care" 1.5 trillion Dollar project that will bring one of the finest medical systems in the world down to a Third World category. Barack Hussein Obama wants it done by Christmas! Like a spoiled child who wants a candy and wants it now! This is coming from the mouth of someone who never ran anything in his life, not even a 7-11 store, not even a small town city hall: the commander in chief of the USA armies. But he is in the White House. The voters of the X generation (whatever that means) fell for the mantra "Change, change." The twits!

Can we criticize the Thais for falling in the same pitfalls as we have in the much "wiser" and developed USA?

Please, cut the Thais some slack!

Pisico

[robertsonmartin]

Having worked for a number of years in major IT and infrastructure projects in Thailand and elsewhere is SE Asia I have dealt with engineers from many nationalities such as Thai, Indian, Philippino and Chinese as well as many from western countries

From experience I can state that there are some very good Thai engineers, (and some very poor ones) just like anywhere else.

However they are disadvantaged by poor English, poor management and when working locally reduced budget caused by kickbacks. Often the product selected is not the best one, but the one that pays the best commission Many times this is a smaller company trying to make a name in the region, without sufficient experience.

It should also be noted that most prestigious projects open when the politicians say it will no matter how ready or otherwise the engineers say they are. The time allocated for proper testing is nearly always cut short, because it starts late due to delays in installation, but still always has to finish when the politicians say so. You would be surprised at the number prestigious projects that open without fully tested and functional systems.

On my last project in the ME some software engineers from Thailand were employed by a major international company because of experience they gained at Suvarnabhumi (and of course price) and it was generally agreed that they were far superior to the ones found locally.

So lets stop knocking Thai engineers and help them improve by impating our experience.

To one other poster I would say, that a certificate in programming does not make you a good programmer. Anybody can learn a computer language, but the ability to understand the issues and find and implement the correct solution comes from practice and experience. Once the solution is clearly identified then it is time to pass it on to a code monkey with the fancy ceritificate and no experince to implement.

Finally it is often not the software that is at fault, but poor operator training or unforeseen external events so without all the facts lets not make hast judgements on the ability or otherwise of our hosts.

Hear Hear.

Edited November 17, 2009 by robertsonmartin

[Arkady]

It is not a surprise. The ETA is a very corrupt department. They probably paid a high price to a local developer who had scimp on the costs because so much baksheesh was demanded.

It looks as if the Easy Pass will still not apply to the expressways that didn't accept the old tags. Never understood why they couldn't talk to each other and agree a revenue sharing formula. I suppose certain vested interests didn't better from receiving cash.

Anyway this is pathetic. After years of delays and a long time after ditching the tags, they have failed to introduce a new system on time which is probably inadequate anyway apart from this initial glitch. Meanwhile, life is misery for motorists caught in the totally unnecessary traffic jams at toll booths, not to mention the economic cost in terms of time and fuel wasted. Another own goal by corrupt government officials.