Getting Engaged

[danlrob]

I am traveling back to Thailand in 6 weeks to see my girfriend again. This will be my fifth trip to be with her. We have been seeing each other for over a year now. She has a daughter who I have met several times and I have spent time with her parents and sisters too.

On this trip I plan to ask her to marry me. I have done much reading on Thai traditions and I know they are very different from my US traditions. I know that the Thai traditions are important to my girl and her family. It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions. When I ask my girl to marry me I plan to give her an engagement ring as is the tradition in the US.

My understasnding is that it is Thai tradition to give my girl gold. Here's my first question. When she says yes should I immediately go out and get gold for her or should I present that with the engagement ring? Is this typically something like gold coins or is it gold jewelry? I am open to any suggestions on what or how much. Where would I go in BKK to find this?

I am also confused by the Sin Sod probably because I have done too much reading. I am not a rich man but I do want to do right by my girl. I have read serveral things that indicate Sin Sot may not apply in our situation. She tells me her family is poor, she did not finish school, she was previuosly married, and has a daughter. Again, I would accept any suggestions or advice concerning this .

Thanks for your assistance

Dan

[Soutpeel]

No Sin Sot payable in your case..

Gold at engagement as a Thai tradition...new one to me.....Mrs Soutpeel wanted a 1 carat diamond ring..

I wouldnt get too caught up in "tradtions" thing...

[rick75]

I bought my girlfriend a diamond engagement ring, she was in a similar position to your girlfriend and the family asked for 20 000 baht sin sod, but said up to me if I choose to or not pay, if they are asking a ridiculous amount of money get out, if not pay and be happy.

[Soutpeel]

I bought my girlfriend a diamond engagement ring, she was in a similar position to your girlfriend and the family asked for 20 000 baht sin sod, but said up to me if I choose to or not pay, if they are asking a ridiculous amount of money get out, if not pay and be happy.

<deleted> would you pay THB 20,000 "sin sot" for an engagment ??....Sin sot is for marriage not engagment....you where being set up...

[rick75]

I am in the process of getting married and sin sod was discussed a couple of weeks back.

[Tod Daniels]

While it is admirable you want to respect 'all-thingz-thai"; my advice is to take most things pawned off as tradition or custom here with the proverbial "grain of salt".

It causes FAR less problem down the road to just say, you are NOT thai and don't follow their beliefs. This can usually be done without rocking the boat too much by simply allowing them to continue their belief system without you morphing into some pseudo-thai foreign sock puppet (of which there are entirely too many here already ).

It is my experience that the minute you start buying into the myriad of often mindless oxymoronic things thais do and/or try to pawn off as thai-culture (often without even understanding why they do it themselves) you open yourself to a problematic existence here. It seems to never end. If I had a single baht for every time I've heard a foreigners thai g/f, wife, or (in)significant other say "you don't understand thai culture", I'd be a billionaire. There is no need to understand it or buy into it, just let thais be thai, and you continue to be a foreigner.

I would advise to immediately start studying the thai language. You're unlikely to understand anything said around you if you don't. It is also my experience that you can NEVER EVER rely on any thais who has a vested interest in a situation to translate things even remotely close to what is/was actually said.

I see you mentioned in your post that your g/f was previously married, has a previous child, never finished school and is from a poor family; (believe me these things are all too common here, so no major hurdles in that regard).

Unfortunately in the eyes of most thai men; the girl is 'second hand' and more times than not no sin-sod would be paid (or if it was, it would be a token amount for the 'face' of the family and returned immediately after the 'dog & pony show' a thai wedding entails). With that being said, I have seen more foreigners than I care to tally up who've coughed up crazy money buying gold, and paying sin-sod to the thai family of their betrothed, regardless of how many children or how many previous husbands she's had. Ultimately it is a "do what you want" type of situation.

There is a pinned topic in the forum which explains sin-sod quite well;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

You are unlikely to get any valuable insight into your situation from the posters here on T/V. Most of the male posters state they have married "thai-nese" (half thai / half chinese), college educated, ultra-rich girls. I find it quite the quandary that while most men profess to having married the above described women; the foreigners I meet usually have a dark, poorly educated, flat nosed, splayed toed, tattooed, gold encrusted thai-in-tow.. The mind wobbles at the disparity...

Good luck in your endeavor, I sincerely hope things do work out for you.

You would do well to follow the old adage from the television show The X Files; Trust No One…

[bkkjames]

While it is admirable you want to respect 'all-thingz-thai"; my advice is to take most things pawned off as tradition or custom here with the proverbial "grain of salt".

It causes FAR less problem down the road to just say, you are NOT thai and don't follow their beliefs. This can usually be done without rocking the boat too much by simply allowing them to continue their belief system without you morphing into some pseudo-thai foreign sock puppet (of which there are entirely too many here already ).

It is my experience that the minute you start buying into the myriad of often mindless oxymoronic things thais do and/or try to pawn off as thai-culture (often without even understanding why they do it themselves) you open yourself to a problematic existence here. It seems to never end. If I had a single baht for every time I've heard a foreigners thai g/f, wife, or (in)significant other say "you don't understand thai culture", I'd be a billionaire. There is no need to understand it or buy into it, just let thais be thai, and you continue to be a foreigner.

I would advise to immediately start studying the thai language. You're unlikely to understand anything said around you if you don't. It is also my experience that you can NEVER EVER rely on any thais who has a vested interest in a situation to translate things even remotely close to what is/was actually said.

I see you mentioned in your post that your g/f was previously married, has a previous child, never finished school and is from a poor family; (believe me these things are all too common here, so no major hurdles in that regard).

Unfortunately in the eyes of most thai men; the girl is 'second hand' and more times than not no sin-sod would be paid (or if it was, it would be a token amount for the 'face' of the family and returned immediately after the 'dog & pony show' a thai wedding entails). With that being said, I have seen more foreigners than I care to tally up who've coughed up crazy money buying gold, and paying sin-sod to the thai family of their betrothed, regardless of how many children or how many previous husbands she's had. Ultimately it is a "do what you want" type of situation.

There is a pinned topic in the forum which explains sin-sod quite well;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

You are unlikely to get any valuable insight into your situation from the posters here on T/V. Most of the male posters state they have married "thai-nese" (half thai / half chinese), college educated, ultra-rich girls. I find it quite the quandary that while most men profess to having married the above described women; the foreigners I meet usually have a dark, poorly educated, flat nosed, splayed toed, tattooed, gold encrusted thai-in-tow.. The mind wobbles at the disparity...

Good luck in your endeavor, I sincerely hope things do work out for you.

You would do well to follow the old adage from the television show The X Files; Trust No One…

Could not agree more Tod. You should have put this at the beginning though in my opinion, just to qualify your words that followed.

[rick75]

I can't understand the posters that say don't buy into the "its Thai culture", if you are marrying a Thai you are buying into Thai culture, the same as She is buying into the culture you were bought up in, if you are not prepared to buy in, <deleted> are you doing go home and marry a girl form whence you came, or try to understand and educate yourself on whats going on around you. I am not saying play the role of the ATM, but if you are well off by Thai standards and the family you are marrying into is poor, you are going to be expected to help out get used to it, or expect your wife to be miserable because deep down she resents you for not ponying up and Her having to put up with the guilt Her family puts on Her.

If you are marrying a Thai you are marrying the whole family

Now Flame away.

[Soutpeel]

You are unlikely to get any valuable insight into your situation from the posters here on T/V. Most of the male posters state they have married "thai-nese" (half thai / half chinese), college educated, ultra-rich girls. I find it quite the quandary that while most men profess to having married the above described women; the foreigners I meet usually have a dark, poorly educated, flat nosed, splayed toed, tattooed, gold encrusted thai-in-tow.. The mind wobbles at the disparity...

...often wondered about that one as well....your a gem TD....

[silverdales]

Are you not meant to ask the permission of the father or parents first? - before you propose?

[MikeyIdea]

Danlrob

Please finish reading my post, then also read this; http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Yeah-Sin-Sot...73#entry3146073

I will make an exception and speak more Thai than English today, most of the advice you get in the other thread above seem to be from people doing the opposite… Too lazy to re-post though so go ahead and read the other post too, overall, it's a good perspective of things

If sin sod apply to your situation or not is totally up to how much you respect the girl and her family. You need to ask the girl what she expects in order to determine what respect is. It doesn't mean that you follow it, but you need to know

Don't run out and buy gold yourself. You need to be open and discuss with the girl before you talk to the parents. Politely ask direct questions and tell her openly what you think. It's much more difficult to keep a cross-cultural relationship than it is to marry – open communication is crucial, start now and you have a good chance of keeping your cross-cultural relationship together for more than a couple of years. If you and the girl agree on something that sounds reasonable for both of you, then it is also likely that her family will respect it, unless it is totally wrong of course. If your girl doesn't think that she knows enough about this, then she will tell you that. You will be asked to sit down and discuss (the engagement and the) wedding with the most senior in the family (the father or mothers oldest brother maybe). Your girl will help with the discussion.

You don't necessarily pay both engagement and sin sod (or any of it). Since the girl has been married and has a child, both sound too much to me. If engagement comes up, then it should be negotiated away, IMO. Will the family agree that spending a bit more money on the wedding is a good idea? Yes, of course, everybody can see the wedding, only closest family sees the engagement.

A Thai engagement includes gold, yes, no money. If no engagement gold was given, then the marriage can include gold. There are gold shops everywhere, one of them will do fine. You'd normally buy bracelets or necklaces. One bath of gold weighs 15.2 grams and cost a bit over 10,000 bath. Gold is not only for the girl, it's generally for her mom and dad too. The girl has been married before so there could very well be no gold, or very little gold, or only to the girl. Again, everything is flexible and negotiable. Practicality not principle rules in Thailand. Don't buy yourself, bring your girl if you buy, this is a happy time for both of you.

If the family is poor, then it is likely that they will need a bit of money help before the wedding, they probably don't have enough money to prepare for the wedding otherwise. If you respect the girl, then you help her family.

"She tells me her family is poor, she did not finish school, she was previously married, and has a daughter" - This sounds to me like 25,000 (low), 50,000 or 100,000 (that's a good offer) bath sin sod. Remember that the marriage costs too, and that Thais are bad at estimating cost. Don't get angry when cost goes over estimate, they simply don't have experience estimating these things

"It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions" That was nicely written. I wish you all the luck

Edited November 17, 2009 by MikeyIdea

[givenall]

I bought my girlfriend a diamond engagement ring, she was in a similar position to your girlfriend and the family asked for 20 000 baht sin sod, but said up to me if I choose to or not pay, if they are asking a ridiculous amount of money get out, if not pay and be happy.

Ok guys lets tell everyone Farag tradition does not allow for Sin sod.

[F1fanatic]

Danlrob

Please finish reading my post, then also read this; http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Yeah-Sin-Sot...73#entry3146073

I will make an exception and speak more Thai than English today, most of the advice you get in the other thread above seem to be from people doing the opposite… Too lazy to re-post though so go ahead and read the other post too, overall, it's a good perspective of things

If sin sod apply to your situation or not is totally up to how much you respect the girl and her family. You need to ask the girl what she expects in order to determine what respect is. It doesn't mean that you follow it, but you need to know

Don't run out and buy gold yourself. You need to be open and discuss with the girl before you talk to the parents. Politely ask direct questions and tell her openly what you think. It's much more difficult to keep a cross-cultural relationship than it is to marry – open communication is crucial, start now and you have a good chance of keeping your cross-cultural relationship together for more than a couple of years. If you and the girl agree on something that sounds reasonable for both of you, then it is also likely that her family will respect it, unless it is totally wrong of course. If your girl doesn't think that she knows enough about this, then she will tell you that. You will be asked to sit down and discuss (the engagement and the) wedding with the most senior in the family (the father or mothers oldest brother maybe). Your girl will help with the discussion.

You don't necessarily pay both engagement and sin sod (or any of it). Since the girl has been married and has a child, both sound too much to me. If engagement comes up, then it should be negotiated away, IMO. Will the family agree that spending a bit more money on the wedding is a good idea? Yes, of course, everybody can see the wedding, only closest family sees the engagement.

A Thai engagement includes gold, yes, no money. If no engagement gold was given, then the marriage can include gold. There are gold shops everywhere, one of them will do fine. You'd normally buy bracelets or necklaces. One bath of gold weighs 15.2 grams and cost a bit over 10,000 bath. Gold is not only for the girl, it's generally for her mom and dad too. The girl has been married before so there could very well be no gold, or very little gold, or only to the girl. Again, everything is flexible and negotiable. Practicality not principle rules in Thailand. Don't buy yourself, bring your girl if you buy, this is a happy time for both of you.

If the family is poor, then it is likely that they will need a bit of money help before the wedding, they probably don't have enough money to prepare for the wedding otherwise. If you respect the girl, then you help her family.

"She tells me her family is poor, she did not finish school, she was previously married, and has a daughter" - This sounds to me like 25,000 (low), 50,000 or 100,000 (that's a good offer) bath sin sod. Remember that the marriage costs too, and that Thais are bad at estimating cost. Don't get angry when cost goes over estimate, they simply don't have experience estimating these things

"It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions" That was nicely written. I wish you all the luck

Thank you for the best laugh I've had all day!

"If sin sod apply ....... is totally up to how much you respect the girl and her family. You need to ask the girl what she expects in order to determine what respect is." - Ummm is it only me that thinks the girl will think sin sod needs to be large to respect her family? Let's not even bother going into the way if it was a Thai marrying her (she's married with a child - used goods), he would pay nothing. This is precisely why Isaan people think farangs are stupid and the cycle is repeated.

"She tells me her family is poor, she did not finish school, she was previously married, and has a daughter" - "This sounds to me like 25,000 (low), 50,000 or 100,000 (that's a good offer) bath sin sod. Remember that the marriage costs too, and that Thais are bad at estimating cost. Don't get angry when cost goes over estimate, they simply don't have experience estimating these things"

Wish I could find the rolling about laughing emoticon. A Thai male would pay NOTHING - certainly not 50 to 100,000 - or even 25,000! You're right though about 'estimating' costs - they will always be WAY above the original estimate. Not because "they simply don't have experience estimating these things", but because they are far more intelligent than you when money comes into the equation, and know how to 'milk the cow'.

For god's sake grow up and start trying to act intelligently. Its no wonder the Thais think we're stupid!

[pjclark1]

Thai tradition does not include marrying a white man.

They want to do things the Thai way then tell em to find a Thai man ........

Oh I forgot, no Thai man will marry 'second hand goods', so looks like your Thai lady wants to do the Thai tradition and live alone forever.

Harsh but true.

[sassienie]

Just before I married my wife, my future father in law asked me for a sin-sod, so I told him to sod-off.

A sin-sod is nonsense and a scam.

What is it with you guys. the girl lets you have a sniff of a bit of hot totty and suddenly it`s if she`s won first prize on, Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.

Idiots and their dosh are soon parted.

Edited November 17, 2009 by sassienie

[skeech33]

[quote name='tod-daniels' date='2009-11-17 13:59:14' post='3145967

I see you mentioned in your post that your g/f was previously married, has a previous child, never finished school and is from a poor family; (believe me these things are all too common here, so no major hurdles in that regard).

wot?

these are huge hurdles. these conditoins make a girl marry a farang just for the cash.

rethink about marrying these kinds of girls. would you marry an american uneducated, poor ghetto girl, with kids............... ?

no offense to the girls, im try to help my fellow americaan

[Pakboong]

While it is admirable you want to respect 'all-thingz-thai"; my advice is to take most things pawned off as tradition or custom here with the proverbial "grain of salt".

It causes FAR less problem down the road to just say, you are NOT thai and don't follow their beliefs. This can usually be done without rocking the boat too much by simply allowing them to continue their belief system without you morphing into some pseudo-thai foreign sock puppet (of which there are entirely too many here already ).

It is my experience that the minute you start buying into the myriad of often mindless oxymoronic things thais do and/or try to pawn off as thai-culture (often without even understanding why they do it themselves) you open yourself to a problematic existence here. It seems to never end. If I had a single baht for every time I've heard a foreigners thai g/f, wife, or (in)significant other say "you don't understand thai culture", I'd be a billionaire. There is no need to understand it or buy into it, just let thais be thai, and you continue to be a foreigner.

I would advise to immediately start studying the thai language. You're unlikely to understand anything said around you if you don't. It is also my experience that you can NEVER EVER rely on any thais who has a vested interest in a situation to translate things even remotely close to what is/was actually said.

I see you mentioned in your post that your g/f was previously married, has a previous child, never finished school and is from a poor family; (believe me these things are all too common here, so no major hurdles in that regard).

Unfortunately in the eyes of most thai men; the girl is 'second hand' and more times than not no sin-sod would be paid (or if it was, it would be a token amount for the 'face' of the family and returned immediately after the 'dog & pony show' a thai wedding entails). With that being said, I have seen more foreigners than I care to tally up who've coughed up crazy money buying gold, and paying sin-sod to the thai family of their betrothed, regardless of how many children or how many previous husbands she's had. Ultimately it is a "do what you want" type of situation.

There is a pinned topic in the forum which explains sin-sod quite well;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

You are unlikely to get any valuable insight into your situation from the posters here on T/V. Most of the male posters state they have married "thai-nese" (half thai / half chinese), college educated, ultra-rich girls. I find it quite the quandary that while most men profess to having married the above described women; the foreigners I meet usually have a dark, poorly educated, flat nosed, splayed toed, tattooed, gold encrusted thai-in-tow.. The mind wobbles at the disparity...

Good luck in your endeavor, I sincerely hope things do work out for you.

You would do well to follow the old adage from the television show The X Files; Trust No One…

Very wise words. If you heed them you will probably survive this. If you don't, you will simply become another statistic.

[a2396]

To the OP: I presume you are marrying this woman because you want to take her back to your country to live with you? If not, why would you want to get married? If you are going to live in Thailand just do "Thai tradition" and move in together. That is what I see many do. The man living with her is her "husband". No other nonsense required. End of story.

[MikeyIdea]

Danlrob

"It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions" That was nicely written. I wish you all the luck

For god's sake grow up and start trying to act intelligently. Its no wonder the Thais think we're stupid!

F1fanatic, I have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English. Tell me please, do you also do that? No, how much do you speak, read and write Thai?

Thais don't necessarily think that we are stupid, they more think that we are rude not respecting Thai culture and tradition

Michael - ไมเคิล

[sassienie]

Danlrob

"It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions" That was nicely written. I wish you all the luck

For god's sake grow up and start trying to act intelligently. Its no wonder the Thais think we're stupid!

F1fanatic, I have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English. Tell me please, do you also do that? No, how much do you speak, read and write Thai?

Thais don't necessarily think that we are stupid, they more think that we are rude not respecting Thai culture and tradition

Michael - ไมเคิล

Rubbish!

Anyone that is gullible enough to fall for these scams will be considered stupid whatever country they live in.

And just because you have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English and you can read and write Thai (I’ll try not to applause) doesn’t make you anymore intelligent than any other expat living in Thailand, which becomes obvious on reading your comments.

A person will gain more respect from people if they believe you are savvy, and there is a world of difference between being disrespectful and being a fool.

Paying these demands for huge amounts of money and gold which is mainly a method used aimed at those desiring a lust for some long term bit of young hot totty or sad lonely sexually deprived men, only further encourages these scammers that has almost made scamming the Farang into an industry in Thailand.

The end results being that this will become the norm, spoiling the chances for genuine couples who wish to base their marriage on love rather than a financial deal, business type partnership.

Edited November 18, 2009 by sassienie

[MikeyIdea]

Danlrob

"It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions" That was nicely written. I wish you all the luck

For god's sake grow up and start trying to act intelligently. Its no wonder the Thais think we're stupid!

F1fanatic, I have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English. Tell me please, do you also do that? No, how much do you speak, read and write Thai?

Thais don't necessarily think that we are stupid, they more think that we are rude not respecting Thai culture and tradition

Michael - ไมเคิล

Rubbish!

Anyone that is gullible enough to fall for these scams will be considered stupid whatever country they live in.

And just because you have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English and you can read and write Thai (I'll try not to applause) doesn't make you anymore intelligent than any other expat living in Thailand, which becomes obvious on reading your comments.

A person will gain more respect from people is they believe you are savvy, and there is a world of difference between being disrespectful and being a fool.

Paying these demands for huge amounts of money and gold which is mainly a method used aimed at those desiring a lust for some long term bit of young hot totty only further encourages these scammers that has almost made scamming the Farang into an industry in Thailand.

The end results being that this will become the norm, spoiling the chances for genuine couples who wish to base their marriage on love rather than a financial deal, business type partnership

OK, so you are respectful toward the country you live in, and its people, not to mention its culture and tradition

Oooohhh, let's leave it at that

Edited November 18, 2009 by MikeyIdea

[sassienie]

OK, so you are respectful toward the country you live in, and its people

Oooohhh, let's leave it at that

Errmm yes, my point exactly.

Don`t think you`re qualify to be a Mastermind contestant, do you?

Definately an advanced contributor to the sin-sod system.

Edited November 18, 2009 by sassienie

[MikeyIdea]

I saw that I had forgotten to add - not to mention its culture and tradition in my above post and you were too quick for me, quoted before I had time to add it

Well, the words deserve to be there anyway

[a2396]

Danlrob

"It is my hope that we can follow both sets of traditions" That was nicely written. I wish you all the luck

For god's sake grow up and start trying to act intelligently. Its no wonder the Thais think we're stupid!

F1fanatic, I have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English. Tell me please, do you also do that? No, how much do you speak, read and write Thai?

Thais don't necessarily think that we are stupid, they more think that we are rude not respecting Thai culture and tradition

Michael - ไมเคิล

Rubbish!

Anyone that is gullible enough to fall for these scams will be considered stupid whatever country they live in.

And just because you have spent the last 10 years speaking more Thai than English and you can read and write Thai (I’ll try not to applause) doesn’t make you anymore intelligent than any other expat living in Thailand, which becomes obvious on reading your comments.

A person will gain more respect from people if they believe you are savvy, and there is a world of difference between being disrespectful and being a fool.

Paying these demands for huge amounts of money and gold which is mainly a method used aimed at those desiring a lust for some long term bit of young hot totty or sad lonely sexually deprived men, only further encourages these scammers that has almost made scamming the Farang into an industry in Thailand.

The end results being that this will become the norm, spoiling the chances for genuine couples who wish to base their marriage on love rather than a financial deal, business type partnership.

Excellent reply. Congrats. Unfortunately, much of this nonsense has become the norm. Not only sin sod, but the expectation of monthly stipends & support for extended family, etc, even in the case of a girlfriend, not a wife. I have had various women ask me for 15,000 ++ per month and if I did not pay up (which I did not) they are gone.

[wintermute]

Excellent reply. Congrats. Unfortunately, much of this nonsense has become the norm. Not only sin sod, but the expectation of monthly stipends & support for extended family, etc, even in the case of a girlfriend, not a wife. I have had various women ask me for 15,000 ++ per month and if I did not pay up (which I did not) they are gone.

At 15,000 a pop monthly an enterprising thai woman can carry on 3-4 "engagements" indefinitely and never have to lift a finger to work. It's a brilliant scam and beats selling their bearded coin purse to ugly dudes at the go go.

Edited November 18, 2009 by wintermute

[rick75]

So you guys respect Thailand, its people and traditions yet you speak about not buying into supporting the family etc. I just don't get it, there is an onus on the daughters to support the parents whether they are working as prostitutes or Doctors, I have a Thai friend now working here in Australia she sends money home to the parents, when my girlfriend was working in Bangkok she sent money home long before I was ever on the scene. So are you against your partners supporting there family or just the idea you might have to fork out a little cash now and then, for the most part that is what we are talking about "a little cash" are you guys that stubborn or hard up you are happy to see your partners loved ones starve.

Threads like this just show why Thais look and Farangs with amusement, it has nothing to do with our gullibility it has more to do with Farangs perceived superiority over Thais.

[t.s]

While it is admirable you want to respect 'all-thingz-thai"; my advice is to take most things pawned off as tradition or custom here with the proverbial "grain of salt".

It causes FAR less problem down the road to just say, you are NOT thai and don't follow their beliefs. This can usually be done without rocking the boat too much by simply allowing them to continue their belief system without you morphing into some pseudo-thai foreign sock puppet (of which there are entirely too many here already ).

It is my experience that the minute you start buying into the myriad of often mindless oxymoronic things thais do and/or try to pawn off as thai-culture (often without even understanding why they do it themselves) you open yourself to a problematic existence here. It seems to never end. If I had a single baht for every time I've heard a foreigners thai g/f, wife, or (in)significant other say "you don't understand thai culture", I'd be a billionaire. There is no need to understand it or buy into it, just let thais be thai, and you continue to be a foreigner.

I would advise to immediately start studying the thai language. You're unlikely to understand anything said around you if you don't. It is also my experience that you can NEVER EVER rely on any thais who has a vested interest in a situation to translate things even remotely close to what is/was actually said.

I see you mentioned in your post that your g/f was previously married, has a previous child, never finished school and is from a poor family; (believe me these things are all too common here, so no major hurdles in that regard).

Unfortunately in the eyes of most thai men; the girl is 'second hand' and more times than not no sin-sod would be paid (or if it was, it would be a token amount for the 'face' of the family and returned immediately after the 'dog & pony show' a thai wedding entails). With that being said, I have seen more foreigners than I care to tally up who've coughed up crazy money buying gold, and paying sin-sod to the thai family of their betrothed, regardless of how many children or how many previous husbands she's had. Ultimately it is a "do what you want" type of situation.

There is a pinned topic in the forum which explains sin-sod quite well;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

You are unlikely to get any valuable insight into your situation from the posters here on T/V. Most of the male posters state they have married "thai-nese" (half thai / half chinese), college educated, ultra-rich girls. I find it quite the quandary that while most men profess to having married the above described women; the foreigners I meet usually have a dark, poorly educated, flat nosed, splayed toed, tattooed, gold encrusted thai-in-tow.. The mind wobbles at the disparity...

Good luck in your endeavor, I sincerely hope things do work out for you.

You would do well to follow the old adage from the television show The X Files; Trust No One…

Could not agree more Tod. You should have put this at the beginning though in my opinion, just to qualify your words that followed.

and if not his own, whose opinion was he likely to be spouting?

[zzaa09]

No Sin Sot payable in your case..

Gold at engagement as a Thai tradition...

As is an engagement tamboon. Not always, but occasionally might act as the 'official act' regarding proper etiquette, a nominal extension of sin sot, familial understanding, etc. Can be enacted by her parents or an "Ajarn" Wat official. The actual marriage procedure can be done {later} without fanfare, ritual, or circumstance.

[mahtin]

So you guys respect Thailand, its people and traditions yet you speak about not buying into supporting the family etc. I just don't get it, there is an onus on the daughters to support the parents whether they are working as prostitutes or Doctors, I have a Thai friend now working here in Australia she sends money home to the parents, when my girlfriend was working in Bangkok she sent money home long before I was ever on the scene. So are you against your partners supporting there family or just the idea you might have to fork out a little cash now and then, for the most part that is what we are talking about "a little cash" are you guys that stubborn or hard up you are happy to see your partners loved ones starve.

Threads like this just show why Thais look and Farangs with amusement, it has nothing to do with our gullibility it has more to do with Farangs perceived superiority over Thais.

Don't worry, mate.

We're not all "Stickman-savvy" cynics.

[rick75]

I guess it comes back to the type of relationships these guys must be in, washed up middle aged Men a string of failed relationships behind them, they can come to Thailand and get a new wife and treat Her more like a possession than an equal. Who really cares what her beliefs are, she will do as she is told so long as I am paying the bills.