Stitched Up By Friend

[Thongkorn]

# My Mam Said never loan money to friends , that way you keep friends.

Amen to that! MY ma said "Lend money to a "friend" and you will recieve it back from an "Enemy!'

Reminds me of a scene in the last season of the Sopranos.

There is a quote "Never lend money to friends"

We've all done it, and although I never lost anywhere near the same as the OP it taught me a lesson.

I wrote it off and suggest a bank loan is more suitable in the future.

OP, may I suggest a sheet written in Thai admitting he took out the loan and plans to pay it back.

Have an English version with something he wouldn't be bothered about signing, i.e. this is a declaration stating I have know Mr. X for x amount of years and is of sound character and is etc etc

Tell him it is for something like a deposit for something or anything else and try and have him sign the both.

Maybe a night in a bar and a few jars down his throat with a bar girl on his lap could help?

It would mean you don't broach the loan issue too much.

Total silence on the issue would garner suspicion.

I would spend a month or two on it. Slowly introduce that you plan to do this or that. Gradually make out you may need his help.

Even mention there could be money involved for him down the line.

Get documents supporting what you could do - like brochures etc.

Here's another idea:

Get hold of an empty box for a widescreen TV.

Fill it with bricks and have a Thai guy in a uniform of sorts drop it off in a van at his place.

Make sure the Singaporean guy is the only one home.

Have the Thai guy produce the declaration written in Thai that the Singaporean took out a loan etc and when he accepts the TV he will have to sign he received it - signing the declaration.

Make sure he is aware the TV has been paid for.

Judging by his greed, he may accept it and sign the sheet.

Scouser by any chance ???.....

No not from Everton land.

[Musongman]

This is just about 200,000 Baht, right?

[Maizefarmer]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I saw a lawyer today and had a few papers drawn up.

I have the Singaporean non paying loan guy in a much better position now. As he is of Chinese origin, he will probably not like what is going to happen,

As per someone's advice here I have had a lawyer draw up a post contract for the afore mentioned loan (which he, the Singaporean) is willing to sign. I also have his bank details, address here in bkk as well as in Singapore, and his identity card number and copy of it as well.

I have had contact with Singapore and some friends are going to help me there as well.

I have one brain cell mingled together with thousands of others and I am playing it Jai yen yen.

Macanello

.....yes, play by the rules - and good luck.

[mrtoad]

This is just about 200,000 Baht, right?

Your point?

[fletchsmile]

Macanello,

I would offer the guy the opportunity to pay an agreed small amount each month. Say THB 10,000. If he does so have him sign an agreement acknowledging that, which is witnessed and would help with any future evidence needed or action taken. It would also help if engaging a debt collection firm later. At the moment that is difficult.

Should he object to that, you might wish to apply some pressure by pointing out that you feel morally and ethically bound to take action against him to ensure it doesn't happen to other people. 3 points here:

1) Whatever you do must be legal - don't do anything illegal or stupid or even threaten it

2) You should consider if you are prepared to follow through on any actions that you mention you feel morally bound.

3) Ensure your own house is in order if you are causing problems anonymously, eg you have all your own visas, work permits etc.

3 main possible approaches to bringing pressure. A traditional old one, a modern one, and a Thai one:

1) Traditional old one:

- Simple complaint at a police station, together with a Thai friend. Then a later follow up to check the police actually do as they say. Police station will also ask for your visa and work permit.

2) Modern Approaches:

a)No doubt this person has a wide variety of info on the internet. I'm sure you'll find them on Facebook, Plaxo, Linked In, Google or similar. If in business they probably have a website. There is an enormous amount of information there in terms of education history, business, employee/employer details, customers, affiliates, suppliers, family, friends, connections, professional bodies, company website etc. Collect as much as you can before mentioning this approach, then let them know all the info you have collected. Any professional body he might be a member of with a code of conduct would be particularly interested in a complaint. After that you may feel it your duty to write to all the customers/ affiliates/ suppliers etc with a simple letter saying I thought you should be aware that the person you are doing business with borrowed THB 200k off me in February, promised to pay in March and never did. Leave it short, truthful and simple, with just facts, and no comment on his character that might be defamatory. It's also embarassing if this is sent to parents, his children's school, alumni groups, university etc. A new email address not linked to your own name, might be a useful anonymous route.

b ) You could take this even further by even creating a website that is named "Not Company ABC", mimicking much of his website structure and simply stating everywhere this person borrowed THB 200k and has not paid it back. Again do everything legally and don't overstep the mark from simple fact to opinion.

3) Thai style. One of the most irritating business situations I have seen was when a disgruntled ex-employe reported a company to the tax authorities: both the revenue and the VAT department. It so happened the employee had connections, being a mia noi of a senior tax person. Even though the employer hadn't actually done anything wrong, they ended up with a VAT audit that lasted over a year.

I'm sure a company like his cuts corners on many areas. Ask a Thai friend to report it for you, and do a little digging as to how/ where to report - saying that you believe this person and company may have several irregularities in their books. The pay in slip could be interesting. It will show a cash inflow. Either this will go to a bank account not disclosed in his accounts, or he must book it as income or a loan. If income he needs to pay tax. If a loan you now have your claim. I suspect he has a whole host of tax and accounting issues and even VAT issues. Thai documentation: work permits, visas, tax, witholding tax, VAT is difficult even when everything is legit. For anyone trying to get fancy it's even more difficult, particularly when a cmplaint has been registered.

Don't waste much money on a lawyer. Much more than a letter threatening to take action probably isn't worth it. It'll soon amount to what you are trying to cover, with little guarantee of any success, given you've very few docs.

I still maintain the best way is to agree small regular repayments. The above are possible approaches for thought though. Please act legally in whatever you do. Sticking to facts and not character aspersions.

Good luck.

Edited December 4, 2009 by fletchsmile

[moe666]

Nothing like getting burned by a friend or relative. Loaned a friend 1000.00 US for rent needless to say no longer a friend. I just tend to write the money off and the person off.

Good luck getting your money back.

[macanello]

Nothing like getting burned by a friend or relative. Loaned a friend 1000.00 US for rent needless to say no longer a friend. I just tend to write the money off and the person off.

Good luck getting your money back.

1000 us I can write off 6000 us I cannot

[JacknDanny]

Nothing like getting burned by a friend or relative. Loaned a friend 1000.00 US for rent needless to say no longer a friend. I just tend to write the money off and the person off.

Good luck getting your money back.

1000 us I can write off 6000 us I cannot

If that doesnt work, mate, then PM me. I know someone who will guarantee you get the money back. Costs 30% but at least you are guaranteed 140k.

[Tolley]

Nothing like getting burned by a friend or relative. Loaned a friend 1000.00 US for rent needless to say no longer a friend. I just tend to write the money off and the person off.

Good luck getting your money back.

1000 us I can write off 6000 us I cannot

If that doesnt work, mate, then PM me. I know someone who will guarantee you get the money back. Costs 30% but at least you are guaranteed 140k.

Not sure how you can ever guarantee 100 percent of getting the money back especially if he doesn't have it or any assets to cover it.

[macanello]

Quick update on the Singaporean scammer.

As one of you said in an earlier reply, find out as much as possible about him. Well after extensive research on him via Singapore I have found out that he owns property in Singapore worth 20 times what he owes me. I have all his bank and credit details as well as his Singaporean ID card number etc.

I decided to pay a Thai private Investigator to watch his house 24 hours (cheap and effective as his every move is now recorded).

As I said before it isn't really all about the money. I would never ever burn someone for cash as I have morals and stick by them. The fact is the guy cannot continue to do this to other people and if he gets stopped by me or other people that are owed money, the better for everyone in the future.

The guy has 5 Thai companies and a very prestigious business address on Asoke so he has got to be stopped from continuing to do business there.

Still hopeful I can get a result on this one

Macanello

[Kadafi]

Never lend money you can't afford to get back.

Either you are not strapped for cash or you are stupid (with your research on this guy now i dont think you are stupid).

The only person i would consider lending 200k to would be a family member (pure flesh and blood), not even a friend for years and certainly not some guy from Singapore...

Edited December 15, 2009 by Kadafi

[paperwerks]

I am not bragging because I have lent and lost but everyone reading this can learn from me because I learned my lessons.

My policy is that when a friend asks to borrow money I have the same stock reply: I don't lend money to any one even my mother. If you need money for food I am here to help you because i am your friend. Let's go now and buy you some food. Are you hungry? I will buy you some food. That usually shames them and shuts them up. After that I disown them forever as a friend because they are not a friend but a leach and crook. I would rot in hel_l before asking to borrow from a friend.

Then from a family member the same response. However Thai family members are persistant as all hel_l so I recently consented after saying no 4- 5 times.

These were my terms: They pay 14% interest. The chanote on the condo (raan khaay khong) goes in my name and they pay all transfer fees. And they put 50% down and I finance only 50% of purchase price. Tough ass terms because i was pissed off at having to say no so many times. So, get this: the terms were so tough and strong that they have paid back 30% in 6 months already and are still happy with me. I'm happy with 14% too.

I think I have this down good now. The answer is no no no and go to hel_l friend or family member. Unless you let me rape you. Then, I say yes and it's gonna hurt so much that you will regret asking me and any other friend/family meber with ideras of asking me will be too fearful of the answer to even try to ask. It works!!

Any other attitude you might as well flush your money down the toilet or give it to a bargirl for free. Brutal but it is reality and thai has nothing to do with it. It's not a thai thing. Falangs can be as big scumbags as thais and mostly bigger.

Next: is anyone interested in my policy towards renting condos to falangs??? You don't want to know my terms.........

To the original poster: why aren't you holding gold or have a chanote in your name already?? It cost me a price to learn my lesson too. Hope you have learned your for this life.

[Beacher]

Take a baseball bat to his kneecaps - it works in New Jersey.

I hate admit it, but this is more along my line of thinking.

We who have lived here for a long time have heard your story many many times. As frustrating as it may seem, what everybody has said about having no solid legal recourse available to you is true. And even if you were successful in a court of law, actually getting the money from him is unlikely.

You mentioned that he will shed crockodile tears then be found at the bar with 3 ladies in tow. Also, that he is trying to find new victims. I think those facts would bother me more than being had for 200,000, so instead of hiring a lawyer, I suggest you pay a couple of thugs to give him a visit. I'm not really sure what I'd ask the thugs to do to him, but at the very least, he should need a change of underwear by the time they've left.

[KarenBravo]

This is just about 200,000 Baht, right?

Your point?

That it's not really a lot of money?

[bobbin]

I am not bragging because I have lent and lost but everyone reading this can learn from me because I learned my lessons.

My policy is that when a friend asks to borrow money I have the same stock reply: I don't lend money to any one even my mother. If you need money for food I am here to help you because i am your friend. Let's go now and buy you some food. Are you hungry? I will buy you some food. That usually shames them and shuts them up. After that I disown them forever as a friend because they are not a friend but a leach and crook. I would rot in hel_l before asking to borrow from a friend.

Then from a family member the same response. However Thai family members are persistant as all hel_l so I recently consented after saying no 4- 5 times.

These were my terms: They pay 14% interest. The chanote on the condo (raan khaay khong) goes in my name and they pay all transfer fees. And they put 50% down and I finance only 50% of purchase price. Tough ass terms because i was pissed off at having to say no so many times. So, get this: the terms were so tough and strong that they have paid back 30% in 6 months already and are still happy with me. I'm happy with 14% too.

I think I have this down good now. The answer is no no no and go to hel_l friend or family member. Unless you let me rape you. Then, I say yes and it's gonna hurt so much that you will regret asking me and any other friend/family meber with ideras of asking me will be too fearful of the answer to even try to ask. It works!!

Any other attitude you might as well flush your money down the toilet or give it to a bargirl for free. Brutal but it is reality and thai has nothing to do with it. It's not a thai thing. Falangs can be as big scumbags as thais and mostly bigger.

Next: is anyone interested in my policy towards renting condos to falangs??? You don't want to know my terms.........

To the original poster: why aren't you holding gold or have a chanote in your name already?? It cost me a price to learn my lesson too. Hope you have learned your for this life.

Holy Shit!

Do you even have any friends? Takes all kinds I guess.

[Kadafi]

The most i have lent in 5 years of staying in Thailand in 1000 baht, even that took 2 weeks to get back off the guy. After chasing him i managed to get 500 baht back, then continued chasing i got the other 500 baht back a week later. When you lend money you expect the other person to just return it, but odds are that will never happen and it just turns into pointless grief if you really want to get the money back...

[macanello]

Thanks to everyone who gave me some good advice on this forum.

After following all the advice I am so glad to say that the afore mentioned debtor has decided to pay up after 11 months of struggle.

Not only that; he has decided to pay me 45000 baht compensation on lost revenue

So for all you pessimists out there I told you NEVER GIVE UP ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

End of story

shit I feel good right now

Life is sweet

Macanello

[mrtoad]

Thanks to everyone who gave me some good advice on this forum.

After following all the advice I am so glad to say that the afore mentioned debtor has decided to pay up after 11 months of struggle.

Not only that; he has decided to pay me 45000 baht compensation on lost revenue

So for all you pessimists out there I told you NEVER GIVE UP ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

End of story

shit I feel good right now

Life is sweet

Macanello

Good on you mate - did it the right way and the guy has come through. I'll c u for a beer soon.

[koheesti]

Thanks to everyone who gave me some good advice on this forum.

After following all the advice I am so glad to say that the afore mentioned debtor has decided to pay up after 11 months of struggle.

Not only that; he has decided to pay me 45000 baht compensation on lost revenue

So for all you pessimists out there I told you NEVER GIVE UP ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

End of story

shit I feel good right now

Life is sweet

Macanello

That is some unexpected good news.

Can you post again when you actually have the cash in hand?

[macanello]

Thanks to everyone who gave me some good advice on this forum.

After following all the advice I am so glad to say that the afore mentioned debtor has decided to pay up after 11 months of struggle.

Not only that; he has decided to pay me 45000 baht compensation on lost revenue

So for all you pessimists out there I told you NEVER GIVE UP ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

End of story

shit I feel good right now

Life is sweet

The cash is physically in my bank account mate. But if you want to borrow some u can go and fxck yerself . Never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Macanello

That is some unexpected good news.

Can you post again when you actually have the cash in hand?

[OxfordWill]

Play him at his own game. Cant imagine adding law into it will help at all. Remain on good terms. Take the chance he actually isnt a professional scammer. Maybe hel_l empathise with you eventually and do his best. Or not. At least you wont have wasted anything but some time trying

[macanello]

Play him at his own game. Cant imagine adding law into it will help at all. Remain on good terms. Take the chance he actually isnt a professional scammer. Maybe hel_l empathise with you eventually and do his best. Or not. At least you wont have wasted anything but some time trying

It has been resolved ox willi no more games

[moe666]

Years ago a fellow got into a friend of mine for about 700 dollars on a gambling debt. My friend had a check for the 700 dollars but everytime he went to cash the check he was told not enough money in account. After some advice from his pop ( professional gambler) he went to the bank and tried to cash the check, not enough funds, after a bit of conversation with the teller he figured out the amount he needed to deposit in the account that would cover the check, 250 dollars. My friend deposited 250 dollars and then presented the check for 700 dollars check cashed. He didn't get the full amt. owed but he got 450 and he wanted to see the guys face when he had an over draft.

Glad to hear you got your money back. What steps did you take exactly a lot of advice given on this subject.

[powderpuff]

I hear what you are saying, and I think we all know that Lawyers will just eat into the money. I am wondering though if it would be possible to at least just go and file a police report, or something like that?

No because it's one guys word against another. Both of them are foreigners. The cops would either a laugh in your face or they would be like ho hum NEXT !!!!! while they try & stay awake till the end of their shift.

A few posters have told you the one & only option you have - MAKE THE GUY SEE YOU ARE SERIOUS. I'll let you work out how that's done. but a clue - you have already been told on here a couple of times. baseball & bat

[powderpuff]

I think loan sharks are getting 5% PER MONTH. I would also demand gold for collateral. No gold - no loan. Fukkin deadbeats. The guys got money in Singapore but he would rather spend yours. The rest of you Rube Goldbergs out there take note.

[OxfordWill]

Play him at his own game. Cant imagine adding law into it will help at all. Remain on good terms. Take the chance he actually isnt a professional scammer. Maybe hel_l empathise with you eventually and do his best. Or not. At least you wont have wasted anything but some time trying

It has been resolved ox willi no more games

Ah Sorry- and great to hear.

[macanello]

I think loan sharks are getting 5% PER MONTH. I would also demand gold for collateral. No gold - no loan. Fukkin deadbeats. The guys got money in Singapore but he would rather spend yours. The rest of you Rube Goldbergs out there take note.

Loan sharks are getting minimum 8% per month and will resolve your case with a 30% fee for services rendered in recuperating a loan in a one off payment. Believe me I know about this now.

[Colabamumbai]

If he lives in Thailand you could notify Immigration about him, since he probably has a visa. Sometimes the best action is the quiet action.

[Colabamumbai]

Thanks to everyone who gave me some good advice on this forum.

After following all the advice I am so glad to say that the afore mentioned debtor has decided to pay up after 11 months of struggle.

Not only that; he has decided to pay me 45000 baht compensation on lost revenue

So for all you pessimists out there I told you NEVER GIVE UP ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

End of story

shit I feel good right now

Id like to hear the end of the story you say it is in your account, have you tried to withdraw it???

Life is sweet

The cash is physically in my bank account mate. But if you want to borrow some u can go and fxck yerself . Never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Macanello

That is some unexpected good news.

Can you post again when you actually have the cash in hand?

[carmine]

I seem to remember telling you to forget it and move. I'm pleased you ignored my advice. Well done, you must be very satisfied.