Pay Limit For Foreign Teachers.

[elkangorito]

Has anybody every heard of an income restriction for foreign teachers? This applies only to those who work for Thai government institutions.

I have recently had my pay details changed in a typical Thai fashion (mediocrity). After having 6 weeks semester break without pay & then returning to work, I was told that I was going to be paid monthly. This meant that I was to exist for a further 4 weeks without pay.

About a week ago, I was told that there is some problem about the amount that I am paid. The problem is the amount is too high & that foreign teachers are only allowed to be paid no more than 19000.00 Baht per month. The employer can (apparently) apply to the ministry of finance for an exemption to this rule & when approved, pay the foreigner what they wish.

Only yesterday, I was told by a little birdie that one of the directors challenged the amount we two foreign teachers are paid & said that four Thai teachers could be employed for the same amount.

[puyaidon]

A not so new way of doing the same thing is putting a pay cap on the highest amount paid to any teacher. At the university I taught at, the emphasis was retiring good teachers, foreign and Thai, due to their high pay and hiring local teachers. An article in one of the English newspapers some time ago said that now there are so many Master degree applicants to all forms of work, the employers are now paying them the same rates as Bachelor degrees. Just another way like where you work to get you to leave. I expect teaching for foreigners will be slowly eroded away until it is not a viable way of working in the LOS. Now it is not about quality but the bottom line. Why pay for one when you can pay the same for more?

By the way, 19K is not much more than the Thai teachers started at where I taught. Foreign teachers got more depending on experience and level of education.

Edited November 28, 2009 by puyaidon

[Ski_Goong]

A not so new way of doing the same thing is putting a pay cap on the highest amount paid to any teacher. At the university I taught at, the emphasis was retiring good teachers, foreign and Thai, due to their high pay and hiring local teachers. An article in one of the English newspapers some time ago said that now there are so many Master degree applicants to all forms of work, the employers are now paying them the same rates as Bachelor degrees. Just another way like where you work to get you to leave. I expect teaching for foreigners will be slowly eroded away until it is not a viable way of working in the LOS. Now it is not about quality but the bottom line. Why pay for one when you can pay the same for more?

By the way, 19K is not much more than the Thai teachers started at where I taught. Foreign teachers got more depending on experience and level of education.

At a government uni that I freelanced, they had 2 "native" English teachers. One was from Singapore (with passable English skills but not even close to native) making 29000 baht, the other was from England making 38000 baht. This is in Korat so I guess the pay is not that bad. At private uni where I freelanced, they pay 40000-50000 baht for their English teachers.

Ski....

[hansnl]

A not so new way of doing the same thing is putting a pay cap on the highest amount paid to any teacher. At the university I taught at, the emphasis was retiring good teachers, foreign and Thai, due to their high pay and hiring local teachers. An article in one of the English newspapers some time ago said that now there are so many Master degree applicants to all forms of work, the employers are now paying them the same rates as Bachelor degrees. Just another way like where you work to get you to leave. I expect teaching for foreigners will be slowly eroded away until it is not a viable way of working in the LOS. Now it is not about quality but the bottom line. Why pay for one when you can pay the same for more?

By the way, 19K is not much more than the Thai teachers started at where I taught. Foreign teachers got more depending on experience and level of education.

Friend of my daughter, 29 years old, double University degree (teaching and agriculture), Thai, was working for a private school in Khon Kaen for nearly 3 years.

With her another 7 teachers were fired. They were all earning 8,000-12,000 baht a month, for working 6 days a week, 8-10 hours a day, holidays were not given. or sometimes a day.

After protests about the delay of the monthly wages, the teachers were all fired without any compensation, while some of the teachers worked there for 10 years or more.

A few weeks later, after the school holidays, all the teachers were replaced by new teachers, fresh from the University.

For a pay of 6,000 baht a month.

Now the parents start protesting.

Why would that be?

Luckily, all teachers found other, better paying jobs, some in teaching, some in very different jobs.

[PeaceBlondie]

How much a Thai teacher earns is irrelevant. Thai teachers of angrit generally cannot teach TEFL - cannot pronounce, listen, read or write English. They don't spend money on work permits, visa runs, Thai Culture courses, visas. They don't need to fly to Pittsburgh or Devon to visit family. They can own homes in Thailand, etc. They have tenure....

[toptuan]

How much a Thai teacher earns is irrelevant.

Not to Thais!

Every time I mention the unmentionable (a pay raise), the Thai administration reminds me that I'm being paid more than most Thai instructors at our uni. Of course, they don't mention the benefits, which turns things topsy-turvy.

Edited November 29, 2009 by toptuan

[sunnymarky]

How much a Thai teacher earns is irrelevant.

True, but many Thai teachers resent the school having an English program because of the expenditure involved and show it by ignoring English teachers to the extent of looking away when the Falang teacher walks by . Indeed in my year at a school there were teachers, who I discovered spoke English, who made a point never to talk to the three English teachers at the school.

Makes it clear how the Land of Smiles can be B*******t

Edited November 29, 2009 by sunnymarky

[Ijustwannateach]

And let's not forget that the presence of the foreign teachers allows the excuse of charging disproportionately higher profi... er, fees from students in that program. I would guess that either the graft at your place has not reached the right heights, ElK, or that some other turf war is taking place. Of course they hurt you guys and cut off their nose to spite their face, but no big surprises there. Would suggest, as usual, that you start looking for other jobs- preferably leave when they're least prepared, as that's how they've treated you.

[otherstuff1957]

^ someone is playing games at the OP's school. Yes, there is a limit on what teachers are supposed to be paid, but few, if any, foreign teachers are on a school's standard payroll. Unless you are a licensed teacher/government employee, you are being paid as a consultant or a temporary worker and the pay limits will not apply to you.

Edited November 29, 2009 by otherstuff1957

[elkangorito]

How much a Thai teacher earns is irrelevant. Thai teachers of angrit generally cannot teach TEFL - cannot pronounce, listen, read or write English. They don't spend money on work permits, visa runs, Thai Culture courses, visas. They don't need to fly to Pittsburgh or Devon to visit family. They can own homes in Thailand, etc. They have tenure....

You are 2679.3% correct PB. Don't ask me how I came up with this percentage...it just "fits".

And let's not forget that the presence of the foreign teachers allows the excuse of charging disproportionately higher profi... er, fees from students in that program. I would guess that either the graft at your place has not reached the right heights, ElK, or that some other turf war is taking place. Of course they hurt you guys and cut off their nose to spite their face, but no big surprises there. Would suggest, as usual, that you start looking for other jobs- preferably leave when they're least prepared, as that's how they've treated you.

You could be onto something Stephen. Only 6 months ago, a new Director arrived. All the other sub-directors haven't changed in my tenure at the place. The new "D" is a stickler for "going by the book" (a good thing) & has insisted that we foreigners (2 of us...myself & a Filipina, a lovely lady) be employed totally lawfully. He didn't have to worry about me (I insisted upon a visa & a work permit prior to signing any contract) but the Filipina had worked there without the appropriate "paperwork" for 2 years prior to my arrival (although she is married to a Thai & has 2 children to him).

I suspect that the new "D" may not be as willing to "satisfy" ($) some others compared to the old "D".

^ someone is playing games at the OP's school. Yes, there is a limit on what teachers are supposed to be paid, but few, if any, foreign teachers are on a school's standard payroll. Unless you are a licensed teacher/government employee, you are being paid as a consultant or a temporary worker and the pay limits will not apply to you.

When I first heard about this maximum limit, I pointed out to one of my Thai colleagues that if this limit was enforced, there wouldn't be any native English teachers in Thailand. She agreed with me.

I guess I'm lucky...at my place of work, I'm not ignored. As a matter of fact, everybody wants to speak to me. If I go for a smoke, I'm usually accosted by several people on the way...other teachers included in this.

One old fart, who ignored me for 2 years, now goes out of his way to say "Good morning" etc.

My Thai colleagues in the English Dept are shocked to hear the "we can employ 4 Thai teachers for the same amount as 2 foreign teachers" comment.

I have great & wonderful support from my English Dept colleagues but as somebody else said, it may be time to move on. I've just noticed a Facilities Management job in Phuket, which pays 100k per month. The money & job sound great but it will literally break my heart to leave my college. It will be one of the saddest days in my life...all because of some greedy, senseless, moronic, braindead people.

I've decided I will seek other employment, away from teaching. Hopefully, it will be a less "bitchy" environment.

Thanks to all who commented but the question still stands...is there a $ limit for foreign teachers (link or quote please) & can this be negated by approval from some ministry? Has anybody heard of this before?

[KhaoNiaw]

Going back a decade or so, I had a colleague in a government institution who was suddenly informed that she'd hit the ceiling. I can't remember the exact figure, but it must have been around 30,000 (without the housing allowance that was also paid).

In those days, we were given 2-year contacts but around the same time these were changed to 1 year, apparently because upon being given a new 2-year contract, you were (legally) entitled to a salary increase. Not so with a 1-year deal. I moved on.

[allane]

the question still stands...is there a $ limit for foreign teachers (link or quote please) & can this be negated by approval from some ministry? Has anybody heard of this before?

I answered this question already in a reply to a Topic that YOU had started. The topic is titled: "maximum" Wage/salary

I posted my comments at 18:38:22 on September 12, 2009.

For anyone else who wants to view it, and can not find it using the above topic title, try searching this forum for the word "Rajhabat", exactly as I have spelled it here.

[Scott]

Is this the link/topic your referring to:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/maximum-Wage...ry-t296722.html ?

Let's keep in mind that regulations and how they are enforced will vary from time to time and place to place.

[allane]

Is this the link/topic your referring to:

Yes, thank you.

To expand a bit on my comments... I have been working as a teacher in Thailand since 1995. Early in my time here, I became aware of the salary cap for teachers in government schools and post-secondary institutions which I mentioned in my two previous posts.

While I certainly don't know exactly how long this regulation has been in place, it was by no means a new regulation when I came here. My impression in 1995 or '96 was that it had already been in place for several years.

[KhaoNiaw]

Out of interest, do teachers in government institutions all work to one-year contracts, and does anyone ever get a pay rise with a new contract?

The colleague I mentioned earlier had worked at that place for about 15 years and always received pay rises with her new 2-year contracts. I did too, until we were only given the one-year variety, and were basically informed that meant we would never be able to get another increase. My understanding was that the salary ceiling would eventually be hit if you kept getting new 2-year contracts, but with the one-year contracts the ceiling was basically the same as you started on. So, I'm also interested to know if anyone gets two-year contracts, and a raise when they're renewed.

Edited November 30, 2009 by KhaoNiaw

[PeaceBlondie]

I know a farang matayom teacher at a govt. school on a two-year contract, paid well over 60K/month, paid trips home, etc. I knew a Thai teacher in the north who made about 60K; my Thai non-admin boss made 31K in 2004. Your mileage will differ.

[elkangorito]

With regard to pay increases, I only expect one if I change job titles (promotion) or if CPI changes (Consumer Price Indexing). I don't give 2 hoots what the Thai teachers get paid...that is their bussiness & if they are unhappy with their pay/conditions, they need to do something about it. I refuse to suffer or be dicriminated against just because the Thai teachers don't have "hind legs" upon which to stand.