What Is It That Some Folk Find So Offensive?

[mca]

"THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I win

[Ulysses G.]

There are a large number of social undesirables who come to Thailand on vacation and mistake Thai good humor and manners for the acceptance that they have never found at home.

When they decide to come back to stay and have lived here for a while, they eventually start to realize that Thais do not appreciate them anymore than anyone else ever has - Thais are simply kind to strangers - and they develop a real hatred for this country. They feel that they have been betrayed somehow.

It finally dawns on them that maybe something is wrong with them rather than the rest of society and that is certainly not something that they want to acknowledge.

I must admit that I hate listening to these social inadequates whinge about how all their problems are someone else's fault and that somehow Thailand is to blame.

This is quite clear - with or without the insults - and a number of other posters seem to agree. This is the truth as I see it and there is really no need to explain further.

On the other hand, you have said nothing that actually addresses what I have said here. You pretend that it is all about insults and suppressing other people's opinions when it has little to do with either.

Anyone who is paying attention can see that you are pretty much ignoring what I have said and grasping at straws to justify your own opinions.

[PhilHarries]

There's two, not so much sides but facets, to this thread as I see it.

Firstly there are those who complain, occasionally or frequently, about things in Thailand. Why do they do it when there opinions count, as you say, for Jack Shitt?

Well there's a measure of self applied therapy here, much like the dog that barks at the airplanes flying overhead. The planes continue without hesitation and the passengers inside are totally unaware of the dog's presence. But the dog is somehow satisfied, he has done his duty as a faithful servant to his master and defended his turf against the invader. For us it's similar in that we can proceed with a clear conscience as we have tried to change things even though we know we never will have the slightest effect. Think of dear old Saint Bob Geldorf who is, apparently, back in Ethiopia seeing for himself that despite all those heroics back in '85 (was it?) nothing, zippo, zilch has changed.

Secondly there are those who complain about those who complain and wade into any discussion with all guns blazing usually ending with that very erudite suggestion that "if you don't like it sod off home".

These people are w*****s! . No, only joking, well maybe some are. As I see it these people often defend the indefencable as part of some kind of ritual to prove their worthyness of being allowed to live in Thailand. They have, in their own minds, become probably more Thai than the average Thai and take every slightest complaint as an attack on them personally. Of course this is in itself a generalisation as some of the complaints are fully deserving of the derision they get.

But what did we do before the invention of this grand waste of a life we know as t'internet? We used to leave work hot, dusty and tired and head straight for a bar in Ban Chang or the Bovine Quadraped bar on 3rd road where we'd start out slagging off the latest idiocy we'd endured. But it never lasted long, there were too many other distractions and the beer tasted so good and there was always somebody who'd pipe up "shaddup and look at the ar5e on her".

I think we've all become too serious on the internet and often take ourselves too seriously. Sorry but I have to go now, there's an airplane just out of Tan Son Nhat that needs barking at (well it's daytime so there's no moon).

[MrRichard2009]

Personally I think it's because when they say "if you don't like it leave" ...... what they really mean is ..... I'm really angry because your pointing out the truth and I would rather not admit it to myself, so why don't you leave because I spent my money on a BG and a house and I can't. .......... The reason I say that is because I find most "complaints" perfectly valid.

[Birdman]

Nowhere is perfect. It's about what works for you.

I think that a lot of the ex pats that can't accept criticism are the ones that arrived recently, inspired by "The Beach". With a copy of the dvd always close at hand, they become all spiritual, only ever eat Thai food ( in their short stay its become a sin to eat a burger) and grow to loathe everything "farang". BTW, wearing a sarong is obligatary. Long may they stay, they are hilarious.

That must be a kind of Thai mutated ex backpackers?

[473geo]

Pehaps for some it is a strange kind of 'marriage'

You know the 'wife' (Thailand)is not perfect.....but you cannot have others saying so....if they do you must defend her....

[GuestHouse]

UG, your comment, which does include name calling derogatory comments (and as such, part of your argument) misses a point - It is just as likely that a person who makes a negative comment or reports a negative experience does so not from some sudden realization that things are not as they thought they were when the first came on holiday, but because they have come across a genuine issue that genuinely upsets them.

Parents raising children here complaining about corruption in the school entry system might be a good example - People who take their responsibility and duties to raise their children very seriously, want the best for their children and are not happy with a corrupt practice that, incidentally, many many Thais complain of too.

For your argument to fit your world view such people are lumped with Social Undesirables, Losers and Wan_kers (Terms you used to express your point of view).

It doesn't wash - Its the act of denigrating others for expressing a view that you do not agree with that gets you in this bind - Unable to address the issue opinion so attack the person who expresses it.

Put simply, and you do not have to think too much to work this out - It is simply ludicrous to suggest that all or even most people expressing a negative view or reporting a negative experience of Thailand fit the profile you are so quick to paste on them.

[Ulysses G.]

Most of us can tell the difference between someone who gets robbed once and people who get on here and complain about all and sundry for months at a time, but never get around to leaving.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I have already specified that the people I am talking about do not complain once or twice. They complain constantly about how terrible everything in Thailand is and talk about going home pronto, but I have noticed that very few ever leave.

Maybe that is not the actual definition of a wanke_r, but it is close enough.

[madjbs]

It doesn't wash

GH,

No, UG is right.

Everyone experiences things they are not so happy about. Few then feel the need to go and moan and complain about it on the internet, before then going on to complaining about the whole of Thailand, Thais and Thai society in general.

Furthermore, most problems that farangs moan about on here are caused by their own ignorance and misunderstandings, things not being done like they were back home (which must obviously be superior).

Edited December 12, 2009 by madjbs

[GuestHouse]

I think you have a point, Madjbs, but then I think Phil Harries addressed this very well with his observation about how the Internet has changed moaning at the local bar to moaning on line.

Again, a lot of focus on attributing the motivation of people expressing a negative view/reporting a negative experience and no insight on why their negative reports upset some people so much.

I've got a busy day planned today - I absolutely bet that all the negative posts on TV added up together with have no impact on my day.

Other people's negative views do not upset me, do not upset my day.

I actually think they only way they could is if I go out of my way to be upset by what other people say about Thailand - and I just can't be bothered with that.

Some are really upset about negativity and seemingly unable to explain why.

[madjbs]

I don't know about others but people's negative posts don't upset me in the slightest, neither do they upset my day in any way. People's who's opinion I do not value in anyway are simply not important enough for me to give a second thought to once I close the thread.

What I dislike strongly and the reason why I will reply to many of these hating posts, is seeing information that I believe to be wrong or misleading posted online for other people who may not know better to see. I will respond just as I would if reading information on any subject that I know to be wrong. Unfortunately, there are so many of these miserable hatred filled Thailand expats that responding to their posts properly becomes too much of a drag.

[Ulysses G.]

I've got a busy day planned today - I absolutely bet that all the negative posts on TV added up together with have no impact on my day.

Other people's negative views do not upset me, do not upset my day.

I actually think they only way they could is if I go out of my way to be upset by what other people say about Thailand - and I just can't be bothered with that.

However, you seem to get quite upset with people who get upset by being bombed with negative views. I don't think that the Dalai Lama has to worry about any competition from you!

[ballpoint]

I see it as having two levels. I have no problem with anyone reporting a problem or scam they have encountered in Thailand. It's a public service. But... You then get so many posters following it up with "yes, Thailand is a... (enter expletive of your choice here)". And, "Thais are... They have no education, they have achieved nothing, they are all xenophobic, they are all out to rip the white man off, this would never happen back in Ausengamericanadermany...". And go on to say how they can't wait to leave the place, or have already left and will never come back. By all means, make your complaint known, anyone who tries to make out that Thailand is a perfect paradise is living in cuckoo land, but then anyone who takes the original complaint several steps further, and starts making generalisations about the whole country and all its people is in straight jacket, face mask and padded cell territory. As for those twisted posters who have experienced a wrong doing, or even just heard about one, and then try and make out that all expats in the country have faced the same, and all expats in the country are bitter old men with 18 year old girlfriends, who would love to be able to get out, but have no money, and all expats in the country secretly hate the Thais, the best we can do for them is keep feeding them soft foods and wiping the drool from their faces. Maybe in the past I did get worked up that some idiot was trying to feel better about his misfortune by projecting it on, and looking down on, every one of us who has a good and successful life in Thailand. But, as you say, in the whole big picture what does it matter? Now I just laugh at them. I would never live anywhere I was constantly unhappy, but these people seem to thrive on it.

[Ulysses G.]

What I dislike strongly and the reason why I will reply to many of these hating posts, is seeing information that I believe to be wrong or misleading posted online for other people who may not know better to see. I will respond just as I would if reading information on any subject that I know to be wrong. Unfortunately, there are so many of these miserable hatred filled Thailand expats that responding to their posts properly becomes too much of a drag.

Of course! Guesthouse just want to pretend otherwise.

[GuestHouse]

I think this 'Hate' thing is interesting - but of course as we've seen with the invective in some replies to this thread it is on both sides of the camp.

There definitely seem to be signs of hatred.

[madjbs]

Yes I hate people who are constantly negative, moaning, insulting everything Thai, bigoted and trying to spew it to everyone they encounter. But hey, thats just me.

[GuestHouse]

I think that's a valid point Ballpoint and good to see you take the philosophical view point that it doesn't matter in the end.

UG do you need reminding of what point it is you have failed to address? - See the Opening Post.

[GuestHouse]

Yes I hate people who are constantly negative, moaning, insulting everything Thai, bigoted and trying to spew it to everyone they encounter. But hey, thats just me.

Well it's certainly not me... I just can't get upset about it.

And I note that on more than one occasion the 'Rants against Negativity' get spewed out against a poster who is not habitually negative - This argument that the vitriol of the Saffron Tinted Spectacle Brigade is reserved for only those who are habitually negative about Thailand is inconsistent with behaviour on the board.

I've seen relative newbies (with very little posting history) pounced on for a negative post.

And even that doesn't explain why most (the vast majority) of members ignore other posters being negative while the same few members are waiting to pounce and always do pounce on negativity.

Honestly, it's almost as if some folk get up in the morning with the sole intention of logging on to TV to rant at anyone who expresses a negative view or reports a negative experience - and its always they same guys who take this role of self appointed arbiter of what is and is not acceptable criticism of Thailand.

Edited December 12, 2009 by GuestHouse

[madjbs]

Honestly, it's almost as if some folk get up in the morning with the sole intention of logging on to TV to rant at anyone who expresses a negative view or reports a negative experience - and its always they same guys who take this role of self appointed arbiter of what is and is not acceptable criticism of Thailand.

Yeah it's great fun.

Everyone can enjoy having a laugh at the sexpat or occasional tourist who has become an expert on Thai society and feels the need to explain to everyone how all Thai men are useless good for nothings etc....

You should try it sometime.

[PhilHarries]

I think this 'Hate' thing is interesting - but of course as we've seen with the invective in some replies to this thread it is on both sides of the camp.

There definitely seem to be signs of hatred.

Unfortunately the use of "hate" and "love" has become so commonplace these days that these two extremes of human emotion are watered down almost to banality.

Not quite as banal as the term "awesome" as applied to everything from a bowl of soup to the new airport rail link. Truly awesome things like the Grand Canyon just don't get a look in these days.

A bit off topic but yes, some of the posts get a bit near the knuckle and I must admit I have also been guilty of having a bit of a growl from time to time. Sometimes it's a bit difficult to remind oneself that this is only an informal internet forum and not the debating chamber of the United Nations. God knows if it were the UN the world would be a smoldering wasteland long ago.

[barky]

Pehaps for some it is a strange kind of 'marriage'

You know the 'wife' (Thailand)is not perfect.....but you cannot have others saying so....if they do you must defend her....

Agree with this simple analysis. Only human nature probably.

But why waste your time defending something that is not yours anyhow?

One could say your wife "is yours", but 99% of expats living here will never be granted citizenship. It's almost as silly as fighting some guy over a bargirl.

[barky]

Agree with PH #63 and MrR #64 and in the main with you GH. I might add any reasonable, honest thinking person would.

[DazednConfused555]

Still waiting for you to find and link some examples of specific posts Guesthouse.

[Ulysses G.]

I must admit I have also been guilty of having a bit of a growl from time to time.

I have no problem with that. Every country has bad points that need to be pointed out every so often. It is the posters who never find anything good to say about anything, the haters as madjbs calls them, who get my goat. They are often dishonest on top of everything else and usually that is why they are "pounced on" by other TV posters, not just for complaining.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[IanForbes]

You can CHOOSE to be happy, or you can CHOOSE to be negative. It's all up to the individual. I choose to be happy. There are many things to complain about wherever in the world you choose to locate. I'm from Canada which is supposed to be one of the finest places in the world to live, but I could bore everyone with a whole series of valid complaints. But, I have absolutely no control of the many problems, so I just ignore them and get on with life. It is the same when I live in Thailand for half the year. I love the place and all its many quirks.

[madjbs]

Lots of good and valid comments coming out now. It's a shame that usually it's the haters that are most vocal, which tends to pollute and unbalance the forum.

[473geo]

You can CHOOSE to be happy, or you can CHOOSE to be negative. It's all up to the individual. I choose to be happy. There are many things to complain about wherever in the world you choose to locate. I'm from Canada which is supposed to be one of the finest places in the world to live, but I could bore everyone with a whole series of valid complaints. But, I have absolutely no control of the many problems, so I just ignore them and get on with life. It is the same when I live in Thailand for half the year. I love the place and all its many quirks.

Yes Ian, but you CHOSE to complain about the cockerels keeping you awake up country........I choose your example because you did it in an interesting and entertaining way...........but what if somebody replied, stating, you chose to go up country so stop complaining, ......it isn't fair to tar all cockerels with the same brush!!!!!, not all and not only Thai cockerels crow all night!!!!......and if you don't like it just go home!!!!!..........

Is this not the point Guesthouse is making?

[Sakeopete]

Personally I think it's because when they say "if you don't like it leave" ...... what they really mean is ..... I'm really angry because your pointing out the truth and I would rather not admit it to myself, so why don't you leave because I spent my money on a BG and a house and I can't. .......... The reason I say that is because I find most "complaints" perfectly valid.

Exactly! A form of Freudian defense mechanism "Sour Grapes". Also applies to the posters who enjoy making the usual derogatory remarks about people. ie Fat Bald and Ugly, Stupid, Uneducated, wanke_r, Loser etc etc. The people who make these remarks in posts should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are only trying to inflate their own self esteem.

[cmsally]

I was always taught about the benefits of constructive criticism.

I can see the point of people who rant about those that only let off steam about something not so important or the generalisations they see that they can't live with. In other words the general negative strain of humans.

But I think you have to face the fact that one fairly general fault of Thailand is that sometimes criticism isn't done at all; the "useless criticism" is often bundled in with the "constructive criticism". Many people soon take umbrage at being criticised per se.

In other words they take it personally.

This in my opinion is one of the major factors stifling the country's development. It is exacerbated by social structure and status relationships, and often includes not only criticism but suggestions etc.

Maybe to a certain extent some foreigners take this on board and become sublimely influenced and before long hey presto they can't take criticism either. A step further and their personal sphere encompasses society and country.

[GuestHouse]

Lots of good and valid comments coming out now. It's a shame that usually it's the haters that are most vocal, which tends to pollute and unbalance the forum.

I think you are right, people hating others having a different opinion and then resorting to personal insults ruins far too many discussions.