Working Without A Work Permit

[wester]

I have been working at a company (which shall remain nameless) for over 1 year without a work permit. I have done all the customary visa runs.

I have provided 1 year of outstanding service - missing no days, and landing some of the biggest contracts ever for my employer. I have done my job job properly and professionally and made good money for this company. I cooperated at every opportunity, shared and helped out - unpaid favors - above and beyond the call of duty many times.

However, my employer has studiously avoided giving me a work permit. "Too much trouble, etc..blah blah blah." Now there are some more serious problems developing at this job that are affecting me personally.

Do I have any recourse short of quitting?

Can I complain to the Police or the Labor Board?

Will this have any positive effect or will this just get me into trouble?

If I make a complaint, should I do this before or after quitting?

And - for my own safety - should I file such a grievance while I am inside or outside of Thailand?

Thanks for your consideration.

[Scott]

You use the word 'company'. Are you a teacher?

This forum is the teaching forum. If your not a teacher then we can move it to a more appropriate forum.

[wester]

Are you a teacher?

Yes

[Scott]

Thanks. Hopefully some posters will come along with some good advice.

Think carefully before doing anything. You are the one who has broken a law--you are working without a WP.

I am not sure how much trouble, if any, your employer will get into.

[lung]

there a lot's of teacher without a WP

[ThaiRich]

I don't mean to sound harsh. You have been working for a company above and beyond, making them lots of money, ect ect., without a work permit, this does not give you any leverage. It just shows your willingness to be used and taken advantage of. You and your employer both broke the law. The law states that you can not work until the time a work permit is issued. There is no grace period. So what exactly are you thinking, gonna go and admit you broke the law and the rat someone else out to justify it? If your not happy just leave and find a new job. Actually if you meet the qualifications it is very simple to get a work permit it takes about 2 -3 weeks.

There is a recent post in this forum topic "arrested for not having work permit". Read it you will see that nothing has happened to the school. Over the years there has been many post about teacher without work permits being arrested. Never, not once, ever, ever, ever, had they mentioned anything happening to the school or company.

Follow the advice from Scott. Think carefully!!! It sounds to me like you are looking for a little revenge. Suck it up and remember your revenge is you have options to find another job, to return to falangland or anything you want to do.

[Ijustwannateach]

The school will, for reasons beyond legal logic but most likely having to do with money, nearly never be penalised or considered at fault for their breaking the law in employing you without a work permit. You have no leverage at all in this regard.

[PeaceBlondie]

You have one tiny leverage - if you quit, your work permit doesn't expire. Use that leverage. Run away.

[Scott]

The posts so far are helpful and enlightening. I think we need to be careful about saying 'nothing happens to the school.' I don't know that we know that for sure. They may end up paying a fair amount of money to get out of the problem. I doubt it, but it's something we don't know. We do know that the employee pays a very dear price however.

In most cases that I am aware of the complicity is on both sides. The employer says they don't provide a work permit and the employee agrees with those terms. In this case, it sounds like the employee was expecting a work permit, but didn't get one.

Hopefully, posters will have more information and examples.

[lioness]

You say you have made money for this company and landed some of the biggest contracts ever, then you say you are a teacher, I am intrigued.

Regardless, you have worked without a permit, and if you want to take this further you will be the one that bears the brunt of the consequences.

[rfukata]

it seems the school is taking a 'take it or leave it' stance without any responsibility concerning your WP.

i think filing any grievances to the authorities will land you in trouble as the school can deny anything.

[scorecard]

it seems the school is taking a 'take it or leave it' stance without any responsibility concerning your WP.

i think filing any grievances to the authorities will land you in trouble as the school can deny anything.

Is there a hidden message from the school.

If they see you as critical to achievement great riches (you claim you have won many lucraive contracts for them, and this is a very competitive industry) then why would they be ambivalent?

[Mario2008]

When working without a work permit, the employer risks a fine with a maximum of 100,000 baht. The employee on the other hand risks not only a fine, but also a maximum jail time of 5 years and deportation from the country.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Are you a teacher?

Yes

If the dung hits the fan, it will be you that takes the rap.

It only takes someone with a grudge to make your life very difficult.

[Spoonman]

LOL,This has to be a pisstake, surely.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Spoonman

[ThaiSunshine]

If you get arrested for working without a work permit you'll get into a lot of troubles, and I can assure you this is no fun at all:

- You get detained in a cell with space for 10 people, but there will probably be 70 people in there, so no space for you to lie down or even sit down, you will have to stand all the time....sharing a hole in the floor as a toilet....this will last 3 to 7 days depending when you case goes to court...

- You will be sentenced and fined for working without a work permit. The fine is somewhere around 20,000 THB. The sentence is deportation from Thailand.

- You will have to pay a lawyer to take care of your case and to buy you a oneway ticket back to your home country. Depending on the lawyer and where your home country is, this can be anywhere between 100,000 and 200,000 THB.

- Once you're back in your home country, you can return to Thailand, but your passport will have a red stamp inside it telling that you've been sentenced and deported....so the immigration at the airport in BKK can very well tend to refuse your entry....some of the airlines also tends to refuse you purchasing a flight to Thailand....

THIS IS NOT WORTH ALL THE HASSLES! Quit your job now!!

[Sporting Dog]

The real point is that even if you do have some leverage over the employer, YOU will pay a price too, and that is all you should be considering. YOU have been breaking the law, and just because your employer has been complicit doesn't mean you'll get off easily if the law gets involved. Also be careful about threatening anyone with anything - if that is what you mean by leverage.

Also bear in mind that performance is not a one-sided assessment - we all have seen situations where employees honestly feel they have performed well but unfortunately no-one else agrees. Most businesses usually don't wantto get rid of the money-earners without a good reason.

Good Luck!

[cpofc]

now what I was just reading about the Thai's cracking down on so-called 'tourists' seeking illegal work in Thailand?

I hope you don't think you are a 'one off', Thailand is full of farangs like you. How many schools do you hear getting busted?

Should you 'grass up' the school involved, there will be only one loser. You.

Walk away, and next time get the rules straight before you start playing the game.

Recently I had an acquaintance here in Bangkok tell me that he was left underpaid by his prevous employer whilst he was working for them illegally on a tourist visa. He now intends to inform his employer's wife about his former Boss' sexual transgressions should he not come forward with the money owed for his job of work. So now he becomes a blackmailer and extortionist. Not to mention, a hypocrite too.

[Jamalbinabdullah]

I believe that one point needs to be made here. Whether with or without a work permit, a contract, written or oral, was agreed upon by your school and yourself. There is no mention otherwise, so I will assume that the employer paid you for your services during the time you worked there and that you were satisfied with this arrangement.

Whether you had the work permit and/or the contract or not, there are always reasons (even without a reason being given) for either side to terminate the agreement. If you are unhappy, then the best and only option is for you to terminate the agreement and walk away. NOTHING will be gained by throwing up the dirt at this point--and there is a risk that much will be lost as all the older posts have mentioned already.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Jamalbinabdullah

[AJARNJACK]

The "Work Permit Scenario" has been around the education system since the King decreed that all Thais should study English. They employ "native speakers" so that they can teach the students the correct accents and not Thai-style "sing-song" interpretations. Unfortunately they also understand that foreigners that want to stay in Thailand would want to teach English (if all other forms of employment are not open to them). Many schools will tell you that you don't need a Work Permit or just purposely forget to tell you about that requirement so that they can save the 2500 baht fee and paperwork head aches. Most of those schools have "connections" with the local enforcers of those rules and so they don't fear any problems. The problem lies with the labor department and not necessarily immigration officers. If your particular school should fall in disfavor with someone there, they will be the ones to expose you and you'll have BIG problems and not so much for the school.

My personal recommendation is to either pay for the work permit yourself or quit.

[Scott]

Some of the smaller schools and those in less populated areas really don't know how to get a work permit. They seldom deal with foreigners. A friend of mine was in this position. The school was very helpful in supplying him with what he needed, but they didn't have a clue how to do it. He did all the leg work, with some assistance and got a work permit.

I would guess this is a less common scenario than the one where they just don't do it.

[Sisaketmike]

there a lot's of teacher without a WP

To be perfectly honest with you; teaching without a WP is your own problem. It takes only a few weeks to get it. If the process takes a while, you should at least inform the labor department that you’ll do all to get it done. Deportation, a fine and a stamp in your Passport isn’t worth doing that.

[Scott]

Off-topic, but I am curious; what on earth is that a picture of?

[thunder30101]

Looks like a v-twin motorcycle engine to me in desperate need of a top end.

[Sisaketmike]

Looks like a v-twin motorcycle engine to me in desperate need of a top end.

It’s a 750cc Yamaha engine, Khun Mouth the Super mechanic here destroyed it, instead of fixing the problem….

[Scott]

Thanks.