Ed Visa Crackdown

[DegenFarang]

Very good point.I get so fed up of hearing farangs say the thais are trying to stop this and that,but if the farangs werent scammers/criminals/drop outs/drug sellers etc etc then the thai government wouldnt have to keep changing rules.The ed visa has always been a way of staying in Thailand,mainly for the younger farangs and it gets abused

They should just make it easier for younger farang to stay, its easy for old farts already. So i understand why they use the ed visa thing. Anyway if i were to go for an ed visa i would surely study too because i like learning the language.

The problem is that most younger farang who want to stay are poor and working illegally or looking to work illegally. Most old farts who want to stay are retired and have pensions etc or at least they have money.

I do think they should have some sort of version of the retirement visa for younger people who can show a certain amount of money in the bank or foreign income - however presently it seems this is only available if you want to marry a thai or have a kid.

[granuaile]

Very good point.I get so fed up of hearing farangs say the thais are trying to stop this and that,but if the farangs werent scammers/criminals/drop outs/drug sellers etc etc then the thai government wouldnt have to keep changing rules.The ed visa has always been a way of staying in Thailand,mainly for the younger farangs and it gets abused

They should just make it easier for younger farang to stay, its easy for old farts already. So i understand why they use the ed visa thing. Anyway if i were to go for an ed visa i would surely study too because i like learning the language.

55555... Well, not all of us "old farts" have it so easy. I'm retired but not enough of a pension to qualify for a retirement visa, but I have nough savings and funds to live here very modestly.

For me I had three objectives with the ED visa:

* A sincere desire to learn Thai language, which for me means speaking, listening, and reading - writing too but with all the silent letters and multiple letters with the same sound that will be harder.

* To (unofficially) learn more about Buddhism, something I think Thailand provides a wonderful opportunity to do.

* And, yes, because I like it here and like living here, not for the partying (which I can't afford often anyway), not to make money (I haven't tried yet and don't have a lot of interest in it), and not to "get laid" as some have mentioned here

The opportunity presented by the language schools offers a flexibility that college curriculum doesn't though personally I would find a college curriculum more suited to my personality (I need the structure really)...

Anyway I have a notebook of words I am picking up outside class... I am planning to use some supplemental books to learn more vocabulary. And now I come back to my place and pretty much interact in English where I live now. When I move I think will find more chance to practice Thai - their website said English-speaking staff, but lol, not the day I went and reserved the room...

For me th ED visa is a good way to achieve all three goals. In a few years, maybe I will sell my second house in the US and use that money to get a retirement visa... But for now the ED visa and a language school works. I think testing is fair, and if someone uses an ED visa, they should sincerely try to learn even if their primary motive is to stay in Thailand. For me, why go to a country and isolate oneself from the real society, the society that does not interact day-to-day with farang. The biggest problem I have is reading the SMS a friend sends me in Thai, I need a magnifying glass. Thai immigration has every right to scrutinize the veracity of people here on any type of visa. In the US it is worse. I have seen US immigration ignore stated policies and apply older policies. But as an older student who has a harder time remembering vocabulary I hope they go easy on me if they test me. And hopefully if I am still here after a year I can speak and understand Thai reasonably well.

As always just my thoughts. A Thai friend, someone I have known for 20 years, once told me "There have always been foreigners in Thailand, and there will always be ways..." The ED visa is one way, but one should fulfill the criteria for that...

Granuaile

[jazzbo]

I do think they should have some sort of version of the retirement visa for younger people who can show a certain amount of money in the bank or foreign income.

I guess there are 2 ways to look at this:

1) The Department of Immigration (Royal Thai Police) never thought of this when issuing the latest Police Order for basis of Extension.

2) They did think of this and rejected it.

So for 1) if it were over age 40 and 150K per month / 2 million Baht in-bank instead of the 65K per month / 800 baht for the current old fart crowd (myself included) would that make a difference? Then there would be others in that over 40 group who would say THAT is unfair (too much money) or the 35 year-olds who would say that THEY should be included as well.

Edited December 24, 2009 by jazzbo

[DegenFarang]

I do think they should have some sort of version of the retirement visa for younger people who can show a certain amount of money in the bank or foreign income.

I guess there are 2 ways to look at this:

1) The Department of Immigration (Royal Thai Police) never thought of this when issuing the latest Police Order for basis of Extension.

2) They did think of this and rejected it.

So for 1) if it were over age 40 and 150K per month / 2 million Baht in-bank instead of the 65K per month / 800 baht for the current old fart crowd (myself included) would that make a difference? Then there would be others in that over 40 group who would say THAT is unfair (too much money) or the 35 year-olds who would say that THEY should be included as well.

How about any age and 10,000,000 baht in the bank or 200,000 baht per month in income...

That group is not a large one but it should be a very desirable one for them to have in the country.

[jazzbo]

Already done... from Isaan Lawyers translation Police Order 777/2551

2.5 In the case of an investment: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.

(4) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 10 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising more than 50% of its shareholders.

[Brunus]

Already done... from Isaan Lawyers translation Police Order 777/2551

2.5 In the case of an investment: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.

(4) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 10 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising more than 50% of its shareholders.

This law makes sense. You need to have 10 million baht (which is enough for living in Thailand for 20 years without working, spending 500k a year, more than 40k a month). And this for having a visa for 1 year. Next year you can't apply, because you spent 500k and you have left in your bank "only" 9.5 million. So logically now you are poor and you will illegally work in Thailand. So no visa for you. This makes a lot of sense.

As I said before the actual requirements for having a visa are nonsense. These requirements force people to abuse the system, and generate corruption. With reasonable requirements there would be no need to abuse of an ED visa.

[jazzbo]

Transfer to / Investment in Thailand of not less than 10 million baht... so maybe they just assume you will have other funds for your annual expenses and do not have to draw down the 10M fixed deposit.

However, the real Gentleman to contact is (Acting) Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police. After being informed, as he is presumably not aware, as to what is nonsense and what is reasonable, I am sure he will add a Section 2.32 to the latest Police Order to meet the exacting specifications of those who have posted herein.

http://www.royalthaipolice.go.th/index.php

[Brunus]

Transfer to / Investment in Thailand of not less than 10 million baht... so maybe they just assume you will have other funds for your annual expenses and do not have to draw down the 10M fixed deposit.

However, the real Gentleman to contact is (Acting) Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police. After being informed, as he is presumably not aware, as to what is nonsense and what is reasonable, I am sure he will add a Section 2.32 to the latest Police Order to meet the exacting specifications of those who have posted herein.

http://www.royalthaipolice.go.th/index.php

Thanks for clarifying. Now it makes more sense. I will contact this (acting) police dude and congratulate him for this very reasonable law.

[DegenFarang]

Already done... from Isaan Lawyers translation Police Order 777/2551

2.5 In the case of an investment: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.

(4) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 10 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising more than 50% of its shareholders.

This law makes sense. You need to have 10 million baht (which is enough for living in Thailand for 20 years without working, spending 500k a year, more than 40k a month). And this for having a visa for 1 year. Next year you can't apply, because you spent 500k and you have left in your bank "only" 9.5 million. So logically now you are poor and you will illegally work in Thailand. So no visa for you. This makes a lot of sense.

As I said before the actual requirements for having a visa are nonsense. These requirements force people to abuse the system, and generate corruption. With reasonable requirements there would be no need to abuse of an ED visa.

For the first time I think ever I'm going to side with the Thai's on this one. You are basically complaining that they make it inconvenient to take advantage of the law. It is for investment, not for people who will be living off of the money. If you want to stay for 20 years you'll need to bring 20,000,000 baht to make your example work, half for living expenses.

Can anybody confirm whether simply leaving 10,000,000 baht in a savings account will allow a person to renew an investment visa indefinitely without leaving the country?

Edited December 25, 2009 by DegenFarang

[jazzbo]

Barring someone coming forward who has actually received an Extension of Visa based on 777/2511 2.5, I would talk to your bank or other qualified institution (assuming you are serious) as to how much assistance they would provide given an investment to so qualify... let them do some leg work

[Mario2008]

For the first time I think ever I'm going to side with the Thai's on this one. You are basically complaining that they make it inconvenient to take advantage of the law. It is for investment, not for people who will be living off of the money. If you want to stay for 20 years you'll need to bring 20,000,000 baht to make your example work, half for living expenses.

Can anybody confirm whether simply leaving 10,000,000 baht in a savings account will allow a person to renew an investment visa indefinitely without leaving the country?

A normal savings account will not do. You must invest it! A fixed deposit account will do.

[Brunus]

It is for investment, not for people who will be living off of the money. If you want to stay for 20 years you'll need to bring 20,000,000 baht to make your example work, half for living expenses.

I agree with you. There is no law that allows young people to live here legally spending their money (a reasonable amount of money). That's why they abuse the ED visa.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Brunus

[DegenFarang]

For the first time I think ever I'm going to side with the Thai's on this one. You are basically complaining that they make it inconvenient to take advantage of the law. It is for investment, not for people who will be living off of the money. If you want to stay for 20 years you'll need to bring 20,000,000 baht to make your example work, half for living expenses.

Can anybody confirm whether simply leaving 10,000,000 baht in a savings account will allow a person to renew an investment visa indefinitely without leaving the country?

A normal savings account will not do. You must invest it! A fixed deposit account will do.

Ok so if you put 10,000,000 baht in a fixed deposit account you can get a one year visa and then renew it every year indefinitely, and never have to leave the country? Even after ten years they will just keep renewing it for you?

[Mario2008]

Correct, as long as you each year qualify, they will renew your extension and you don't have to leave the country.

[bobbin]

I think something has been missed re the 10M Bhat investment route to long-term visa.

Keeping the original 10M in the account could throw off what... 5%?

That 500K Bhat yearly or 40k/month to live on.

No need to bring 20M !

Where to get the 10M is the question.

[Jingthing]

What percentage of current ED visa holders do you reckon have a spare liquid 10 million baht to invest here?

[canuckamuck]

What percentage of current ED visa holders do you reckon have a spare liquid 10 million baht to invest here?

Why would anyone invest 10 mil here?

[lapamita]

an idiot like me , investing 15m after taxsin was gone,and i was thinking it get better............. and visa.....woow stay on 6month validity TR visa 3 entrys and for extension after i make maybe an idiot non ed or b visa just for renew drivinglicence 5 yr. what cant be done with tr visa.

my car problem numberplate police charge 400 baht 2 time , go shop give bluebook, they make copynumberplate,police charge again, i go trafic office, they tell me policereport,and letter of residence,,...immigration TR visa cannot issue letter of residence ok no new numberplate just now i have prepaired 200 baht under drivinglicence for police

ohhh hope get sudenly my money out of the country........................... and ed visa is same visa factory,,,,,,no married no 50 no legal stay

i was stupid to think it get better after taxsin off,,,,and the money taken before out when taxsin stay i invest again

ok my fault i know thailand for 20 years....ok in 4 yrs can get pension visa hahahaha if rules not be changed

[tropo]

What percentage of current ED visa holders do you reckon have a spare liquid 10 million baht to invest here?

Not one.

[tropo]

an idiot like me , investing 15m after taxsin was gone,and i was thinking it get better............. and visa.....woow stay on 6month validity TR visa 3 entrys and for extension after i make maybe an idiot non ed or b visa just for renew drivinglicence 5 yr. what cant be done with tr visa.

my car problem numberplate police charge 400 baht 2 time , go shop give bluebook, they make copynumberplate,police charge again, i go trafic office, they tell me policereport,and letter of residence,,...immigration TR visa cannot issue letter of residence ok no new numberplate just now i have prepaired 200 baht under drivinglicence for police

ohhh hope get sudenly my money out of the country........................... and ed visa is same visa factory,,,,,,no married no 50 no legal stay

i was stupid to think it get better after taxsin off,,,,and the money taken before out when taxsin stay i invest again

ok my fault i know thailand for 20 years....ok in 4 yrs can get pension visa hahahaha if rules not be changed

Did Daddy give you 15 million to invest?

[ericthai]

an idiot like me , investing 15m after taxsin was gone,and i was thinking it get better............. and visa.....woow stay on 6month validity TR visa 3 entrys and for extension after i make maybe an idiot non ed or b visa just for renew drivinglicence 5 yr. what cant be done with tr visa.

my car problem numberplate police charge 400 baht 2 time , go shop give bluebook, they make copynumberplate,police charge again, i go trafic office, they tell me policereport,and letter of residence,,...immigration TR visa cannot issue letter of residence ok no new numberplate just now i have prepaired 200 baht under drivinglicence for police

ohhh hope get sudenly my money out of the country........................... and ed visa is same visa factory,,,,,,no married no 50 no legal stay

i was stupid to think it get better after taxsin off,,,,and the money taken before out when taxsin stay i invest again

ok my fault i know thailand for 20 years....ok in 4 yrs can get pension visa hahahaha if rules not be changed

Sounds like you invested in the wrong company. I invested after Taxsin and doing very well, actually we are expanding as we cant keep up with demand. Hope things get better for your business!! Maybe you get the ED viss for the next 4yrs or if you really want to loose money get married (ha ha) Good Luck!!!

[lapamita]

@ecithai

i am not unhappy with my investment, but it was a wrong decission to think all get better. i am not having a company and not working......but maybe in the worst case i get on books as worker in a big company of my firend,,, nd paying tax for non working.

and if daddy would give me the money,,i would not complain, bcs it would not be my hard owned money ok

[DegenFarang]

What percentage of current ED visa holders do you reckon have a spare liquid 10 million baht to invest here?

Why would anyone invest 10 mil here?

Same reason people were willing to pay 1,000,000 baht for Thailand Elite - to not have to worry about Visa issues anymore. It is quite a stressful pain in the ass. Some people who could have afforded Thailand Elite might not have liked the idea of giving away 1,000,000 baht - but might be willing to invest 10,000,000 baht - particularly if they live, save and invest in US Dollars and think the US Dollar might be headed for a tailspin

Edited December 27, 2009 by DegenFarang

[astral]

It sounds like Catch 22.

If your Thai is poor you need classes, but cannot get a visa.............

[MacWalen]

The solution is very simple, learn Thai, requirements are super reasonable, and you will have no problems with keeping your ED visa even if in the future there are some tests or whatever (no tests confirmed till now). The talk about 10 mil, 20 mil in the bank etc, wow, do you really have to make it that difficult for yourself? It is like trying to kill a mosquito with a nuclear weapon.

If you consider also how much more comfortable you will feel in Thailand if you learn this language, it will make the effort to learn it much more bearable (some give impression that it is a real pain in the butt to learn it). It is easier than you think, you just have to want to learn it.

It is amazing that it is still possible to meet foreigners who live in Thailand for 10-15 years and speak all together 10-20 words of Thai, the usual text we hear is something like 'I don't need to speak Thai, everybody I know speaks some English' Ok! I agree that it is possible to survive without speaking Thai in Thailand the same as some people who live, say, in the USA survive without speaking English but if you could speak Thai would you really deny that your life here would be more pleasant?

Regular routine of learning Thai 10 min. a day will produce miracles over a period of a year even if you find learning languages very hard. Think about it, 10 min a day? How much time we spend watching TV or doing other things that waste 10 min. a day, lets swap it for learning Thai!

Walen School - You just have to stick to it and you will be amazed!

www.thaiwalen.com

[Phatcharanan]

For the first time I think ever I'm going to side with the Thai's on this one. You are basically complaining that they make it inconvenient to take advantage of the law. It is for investment, not for people who will be living off of the money. If you want to stay for 20 years you'll need to bring 20,000,000 baht to make your example work, half for living expenses.

Can anybody confirm whether simply leaving 10,000,000 baht in a savings account will allow a person to renew an investment visa indefinitely without leaving the country?

A normal savings account will not do. You must invest it! A fixed deposit account will do.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I don't think its that simple?

Does not the 10 million have to be invested in Government Bonds or such like? Or through a BOI company?

[dmax]

About time

about time ? why is that then ? maybe ok for you on your retirement visa but what about the rest of us ?

[LivinLOS]

I do think they should have some sort of version of the retirement visa for younger people who can show a certain amount of money in the bank or foreign income.

I guess there are 2 ways to look at this:

1) The Department of Immigration (Royal Thai Police) never thought of this when issuing the latest Police Order for basis of Extension.

2) They did think of this and rejected it.

So for 1) if it were over age 40 and 150K per month / 2 million Baht in-bank instead of the 65K per month / 800 baht for the current old fart crowd (myself included) would that make a difference? Then there would be others in that over 40 group who would say THAT is unfair (too much money) or the 35 year-olds who would say that THEY should be included as well.

How about any age and 10,000,000 baht in the bank or 200,000 baht per month in income...

That group is not a large one but it should be a very desirable one for them to have in the country.

Would superb.. As long as its MY bank and not some high risk uninsured deposit in a Thai bank. 97 still fresh in the memory !!

[harrry]

About time

about time ? why is that then ? maybe ok for you on your retirement visa but what about the rest of us ?

Quite simple....if you get an ED visa to study thai for 4 hrs a week do not lie when you get it. Attend the classes.

[DegenFarang]

The solution is very simple, learn Thai, requirements are super reasonable, and you will have no problems with keeping your ED visa even if in the future there are some tests or whatever (no tests confirmed till now). The talk about 10 mil, 20 mil in the bank etc, wow, do you really have to make it that difficult for yourself? It is like trying to kill a mosquito with a nuclear weapon.

If you consider also how much more comfortable you will feel in Thailand if you learn this language, it will make the effort to learn it much more bearable (some give impression that it is a real pain in the butt to learn it). It is easier than you think, you just have to want to learn it.

It is amazing that it is still possible to meet foreigners who live in Thailand for 10-15 years and speak all together 10-20 words of Thai, the usual text we hear is something like 'I don't need to speak Thai, everybody I know speaks some English' Ok! I agree that it is possible to survive without speaking Thai in Thailand the same as some people who live, say, in the USA survive without speaking English but if you could speak Thai would you really deny that your life here would be more pleasant?

Regular routine of learning Thai 10 min. a day will produce miracles over a period of a year even if you find learning languages very hard. Think about it, 10 min a day? How much time we spend watching TV or doing other things that waste 10 min. a day, lets swap it for learning Thai!

Walen School - You just have to stick to it and you will be amazed!

www.thaiwalen.com

Mac,

So if all of your students follow this advice and start attending classes, what are your plans for expansion to accommodate the 500% increase in students? And do you think you will be able to keep your doors open in such an instance or will that be too much of a financial strain and you'll have to close up shop? If the answer is you'll be able to keep your doors open, then I think you must be price gouging us, no? Must be earning yourself a nice 50-80% profit on every course then...