Ed Visa Extensions Now Subjected To "testing" At Changwattana

[Tod Daniels]

THIS BREAKING NEWS BULLETIN JUST IN!!!

I just spoke with two students who currently have ED visas and went to Changwattana today for their 90 day extensions. Evidently, they are now 'interviewing' ED visa holders. It hung the queue up for several hours, as there is only ONE person interviewing students, and then your paperwork is passed off to get your extension stamped into your passport.

The person I spoke with at length about his trip out there said the questions you are asked by the interviewer are at "retard level”, and it is only basic conversation, (nothing written or read). In his opinion if you couldn't answer them he felt you shouldn’t be on an ED visa. <- NOT my opinion but that of the student I spoke to, so don’t flame me.

He said he felt this would be a short term thing, as he arrived at 12, waited until nearly 3 to get interviewed and when he left close to 5PM (he had other business out there too) he said there were still about 50 people waiting to be interviewed for their thai language assessment before they could get their extensions.

Anyway, thought I'd report what I just hear, not 10 minutes ago, and as it was two people with nearly the same story, I take it as pretty much factual.

Hmmmm, the mind wobbles at the log-jam this will create out there...

Edited for sa-pelling. ..

I also posted a reply to another thread about testing at Jomtien discounting it as a single person’s experience. I stand humbly corrected; it looks like at least for now it's here in Bangkok too.

Edited December 18, 2009 by tod-daniels

[MacWalen]

Interesting. Thanks for the report.

[DegenFarang]

Thanks for the report. Though I just vomited in my mouth a little.

Can you get any more info on what 'retard level' questions they are asking?

Can people who go to renew report back on the questions they are asked?

I hope they just issue warnings for people who are not up-to-snuff and not outright deny extensions...

[spongeman]

And would they ask more difficult questions on your second or third extensions etc ?

[Tod Daniels]

THIS JUST IN....

I talked to the student who were at Changwattana this afternoon after they finished their thai language class (but then I went out after that, so.... )

The questions the interviewer at Thai Immigrations asks are about like this, (but in thai):

What is your name?

How long have you lived in thailand?

This sentence is one that is rarely taught in schools as I was told the immigrations person used "naan-rue-yang" as the question 'tag' which translates as "how long of a time" yet means the same as "naan-thao-rai". Even though this is NOT the thai language forum I think it is spelled like this naan-thao-rai (นานเท่าไร)" and the entire sentence would look like this: "U thii meuang-thai naan rue yang" (อยู่ที่เมืองไทยนานหรือยัง)

Where do you live in Thailand? (Where’s your house located? As in district, sub-district, Soi, etc, in reality &lt;deleted&gt; is your address )

What country do you come from?

Where have you gone for holiday in Thailand?

How long have you studied the Thai Language?

Do you like thai food?

What is your favorite thai dish?

ETC. ..

These and more mindless questions that anyone who can speak a smattering of thai can stumble through are asked. I think sucky answers (poorly structured thai, poor pronunciation, etc) are both accepted as well as expected, after all you’re enrolled in a school to learn the language.

I really don't know the extent of the questioning, but belive me I will go out to Changwattana and scope it out for myself Monday.

[DegenFarang]

After studying Thai for two months I don't know how to answer most of those questions, nor would I understand what the person was asking me if I were asked them in Thai. This is really scary...

What are they going to do if people fail their test miserably??

[thaiphoon]

Thanks for the update Tod. And good of you to volunteer to go to Chaeng Wattana on Monday to report back first hand what is going on.

Let's try to keep this thread running based on FACTUAL INFORMATION rather than speculation.

Thank you

[FarangBuddha]

This is good news...should help to weed out many of the scammers who are using the Ed visa as a means to live in Thailand and not actually studying Thai or some other subject at an approved educational institution.

[punkonater]

Could you please give more details about this student's visa/school? Is he a student of a Thai Language school or an actual University??

I've been attending BUIC for 2 and a half years now but haven't taken a Thai class. I can speak taxi Thai, but I'd fail this interview for sure.

I really don't want this stuff to mess me up when I only have 3 semesters left.

[RickBradford]

This is good news...should help to weed out many of the scammers who are using the Ed visa as a means to live in Thailand and not actually studying Thai

Maybe not such good news for the schools who make their money off such people without making a serious effort to ensure they learn Thai.

[verywierd]

Or for people who are slow learners or just not very good at languages.

[lizzy]

Could you please give more details about this student's visa/school? Is he a student of a Thai Language school or an actual University??

I've been attending BUIC for 2 and a half years now but haven't taken a Thai class. I can speak taxi Thai, but I'd fail this interview for sure.

I really don't want this stuff to mess me up when I only have 3 semesters left.

There would be no reason for them to test your Thai skills, you aren't here on a thai language ED Visa.

Just tell them what you are studying, and give them any other info they require, attendance records or whatever.

I intend coming over to improve my diving skills and also take some muaythai lessons, doubt I'd be tested on either of those!

[whatchamacallit]

Could you please give more details about this student's visa/school? Is he a student of a Thai Language school or an actual University??

I've been attending BUIC for 2 and a half years now but haven't taken a Thai class. I can speak taxi Thai, but I'd fail this interview for sure.

I really don't want this stuff to mess me up when I only have 3 semesters left.

I think the crackdown is on foreigners enrolling in Thai Language schools - NOT foreigners attending Universities such as ABAC, Asian University, or the many international schools. My son is currently attending ABAC in Bangna and before that St. Andrews in Rayong - he gets 1 year Student visa with 90 days reporting (which can be extended each year for another 1 year). This is about people mis-using the ED Visa NOT people who are actually using it to get education. I believe if you attend a Thai Language school (correct me if I'm wrong) you do not get a 1 year visa and/or extension - maybe only 90 days and you just keep renewing (again I'm not too sure about this). So you have nothing to worry about - I believe no testing is required for you :-). My son has been here for over 4 years now and I don't think his Thai is that good :-)

[slapout]

The rats get smarter (work the system) and the rat catchers change the path to the bait. Some of the company adverts go so far as to mention up to 10 years on Ed visa. Just another speed bump/radar detector to find those who are circumventing the intend, whether buyer or seller.

[granuaile]

After studying Thai for two months I don't know how to answer most of those questions, nor would I understand what the person was asking me if I were asked them in Thai. This is really scary...

What are they going to do if people fail their test miserably??

I have been studying for about two and a half months and think I could answer them. But my listening is still weak.

But it is strange I was just at Chaeng Wattana a few days ago, and there was nothing. I was impressed that I got there at 10 and was done by noon, in time to go to my class. It was my first visa extension, but I didn't see any indication that they were testing anyone, so mush have started just in the last 10 days. In any event I will deal with it.

Granuaile

[alyx]

As so many of the posters have already pointed out: Thai is not the only subject taught

Although Thai is compulsory in International schools, none of the students, apart for some whom parents are Thai, can make a sentence.

So no need to worry about being tested in Thai, punkonater

Also, an immigration officer is an immigration officer not a Thai teacher (I remember some years ago when the Ministry of Education had complained about the level of the Thai language teachers so it is doubtful they would ask no-specialists to act as examiners, especially when schools have something called tests and exams)

[billd766]

Personally I think that it is a good idea.

After all if you manage to get your Thai wife to the UK as difficult as that is they have to pass a langauge skills test there so why not here, especially if you are on an ED visa to learn Thai.

That said I find Thai is hard to learn though I try at home using s a CD and langauge books.

I study at home now and again using CD and Thai language books and I find it a bit difficult as I am 65, and partly deaf in each ear so I may say something in Thai but my wife may think I said something else due to the wrong tones used.

Next years task is to try to learn properly and if that works go on to reading and writing Thai.

[Tod Daniels]

Coincidentally while out and about today, I ran into two other students who attend thai language classes, are on the 90 extensions for their ED visas, and were at Changwattana Friday. Evidently this 'testing' or 'vetting' for ED extensions is a VERY new thing indeed (perhaps implemented late this last week, but I dunno really).

With that being said, both the students I spoke with today said this of the ‘vetting’ process;

1) the wait to talk to the person who interviewed them was very LONG; both were there several hours waiting.

2) the interviewer speaks thai VERY SA-LOW-LY and CA-LEAR-LY. She also seems to gauge her questions as well as her speaking to whatever extension you're on.

For example; one student was on his first 90 day extension and his questions were very basis; what is your name, what is the name of your school, how long have you studied thai, etc. The other student was on his very last 90 day extension for his visa. When they compared their questions afterwards, he felt the questions he was asked were of a much higher level. He said some questions he didn't understand at all and told the interviewer as much.

While they were there, they watched 20+ people get interviewed and said to their knowledge no one 'failed' to get their 90 day extension. They did say they really weren't in a position to actually witness the individual interviews, but the people all went to the desks to finish having their extensions processed afterwards.

Please realize the best info I can glean is that this has nothing to do with the MOE, but is an Immigrations only thing. It is also ONLY for people enrolled in a private thai language school getting 90 day extensions in-country. So if you're studying anything else they give ED visas for, don't sweat it.

This should not be confused with the testing process you go thru at MOE to renew your ED visa after your first year's extensions are finished as that is a different kettle of fish altogether. It is also worth noting the 'vetting' at Immigrations seems very perfunctory. On the surface it certainly appears to be nothing even person going for their first 90 day extension should worry about. After all you're enrolled in school to LEARN thai aren't you?

As I said in an earlier post, I'm going to go out there tomorrow to scope it out, and will see if I can possibly talk to the interviewer or at least one of the officers who handle ED extensions to get the scoop.

BTW, I am a nobody; but curious about how this new process works (Not being a cat, I find curiosity in and of itself isn't usually dangerous. )

(edited for a pesky sa-pelling mistake)

Edited December 20, 2009 by tod-daniels

[DegenFarang]

Anxious to hear some reports from people who get tested today and this week...

I agree that anybody not studying at a private Thai language school has nothing to worry about. They are the ones abusing the rules and causing this crackdown. People aren't signing up for scuba diving courses en masse or playing hookie at ABAC to stay in Thailand, so no crackdown on those (yet).

[Maestro]

Off-topic posts and the replies to them have been deleted. From this point forward off-topic and nonsensical posts will be deleted without notification.

--

Maestro

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

doesn't sound like anything to be alarmed about. Just learn your Thai.

This is very consistent with Thai national and govt goals.

Promote Thai culture and language. If more people learn Thai then positive

Promote the health of the Thai education system thru increased revenues

Keep visitor revenue from being collected at somewhat unfriendly neighboring countries and bolster the Thai economy.

Potentially provide a justification to raise Education visa extension fees for increased "necessary" testing services

It's a win win for just about everybody. If you add up what people were spending on visa runs and hassles then a years tuition and extensions its a good deal for the visitor.

And now visitors will be an extra motivation to learn Thai and experience the culture at a deeper level of knowledge.

I say go with the flow and enjoy it !!

[canuckamuck]

Although I feel I could answer the above mentioned questions, I know people who attend my school who have had the visa longer than me who would probably make a mess of it, either for nerves or just not being very fast at learning Thai.

Even for me, the concept of a pop quiz at immigration seems a bit scary, particularly because I have a family here, and I would hate to lose my visa based on an immigration officer having a bad day. I am between work permits at the moment and the education visa is the most logical way for me to stay here. I attend all of my classes. In about a year I will have a work permit again.

For those of you who are happy to hear about the new level of red tape and stress that me and my fellow students now have to endure. I sincerely hope that the immigration department will soon be changing the requirements for your own stay in Thailand or going over your details with a magnifying glass. Maybe a tax audit too.

Cheers

[whatchamacallit]

For those of you who are happy to hear about the new level of red tape and stress that me and my fellow students now have to endure. I sincerely hope that the immigration department will soon be changing the requirements for your own stay in Thailand or going over your details with a magnifying glass. Maybe a tax audit too.

If you are attending your classes and genuinely learning Thai - then you have nothing to worry about the new measure of checking if you're actually legit. But let's face it - some people on this ED visa category are abusing the system and using it just to circumvent the normal process of staying in the country.

Actually - I'm with you - the less red tape is the better.

[samran]

Or for people who are slow learners or just not very good at languages.

Go study something else then....

I'm very sure that if you are doing an economics degree at Chula I'm sure the immigration people aren't going to make you do a Lagrangian transformation to check if the utlility of your time in Thailand has somehow altered by the new visa checking routine.

[DegenFarang]

Or for people who are slow learners or just not very good at languages.

Go study something else then....

I'm very sure that if you are doing an economics degree at Chula I'm sure the immigration people aren't going to make you do a Lagrangian transformation to check if the utlility of your time in Thailand has somehow altered by the new visa checking routine.

Econ degree at Chula (or almost any other course of study anywhere) is a lot more expensive and time consuming than a four hour per week thai-language course. Not to mention the need to apply to the program and wait for it to begin etc. If there are easier, cheaper, more convenient options than Thai language schools - somebody please do enlighten us.

Edited December 21, 2009 by DegenFarang

[verywierd]

Or for people who are slow learners or just not very good at languages.

Go study something else then....

I'm very sure that if you are doing an economics degree at Chula I'm sure the immigration people aren't going to make you do a Lagrangian transformation to check if the utlility of your time in Thailand has somehow altered by the new visa checking routine.

Not a very helpful comment and one which misses the point, as well as being unnecessarily provocative. 

A person may have, for what ever reason, an honest desire to learn the Thai language. However interest and motivation do not automatically translate into ability. Although there has been too little information regarding how the Immigration Authorities are applying this new testing regime to make an informed comment, it seems to me that penalizing people for being slow learners is not the way to go.

However, if the people concerned were studying in Thailand under a Thai government sponsored scholarship for example, then a performance base criterion might be appropriate.

[samran]

Or for people who are slow learners or just not very good at languages.

Go study something else then....

I'm very sure that if you are doing an economics degree at Chula I'm sure the immigration people aren't going to make you do a Lagrangian transformation to check if the utlility of your time in Thailand has somehow altered by the new visa checking routine.

Not a very helpful comment and one which misses the point, as well as being unnecessarily provocative. 

A person may have, for what ever reason, an honest desire to learn the Thai language. However interest and motivation do not automatically translate into ability. Although there has been too little information regarding how the Immigration Authorities are applying this new testing regime to make an informed comment, it seems to me that penalizing people for being slow learners is not the way to go.

However, if the people concerned were studying in Thailand under a Thai government sponsored scholarship for example, then a performance base criterion might be appropriate.

Yes, constrained optimisation equations have the power to be provocative.

As others have said, if that person is a genuine student, then they have nothing to worry about. Slow learners or not. The questions sound like they are easy enough to rote learn a majority of the answers anyway, if that what it has to come down to.

My point is that there is more than one subject one can study under the auspices of an ed-visa, and that for those subjects it is unlikely immigration is going to test you.....

The test is obviously to weed out people who are here using the ed visa as a means of staying in Thailand....these are the people who are going to be thinned skinned about these changes are the ones who are using these visas as a way of staying in Thailand as their primary motive.

Beyond the farang community there are a fair few others- for example - Philippina nannies here on the ole ed visa who use that while they work for families here (just in case someone decides that this is yet another so called anti-farang crusade). I suspect it is these groups who are the true targets of this 'test', not the lost farang trying to learn a bit of survival Thai.

Edited December 21, 2009 by samran

[Tod Daniels]

Okay, just got back home after a stint in Area N at Changwattana Immigrations where they do the extensions for ED visas.

Here's my story...

Got there at about 11:15, asked the kids (young adults) staffing the information desk (where they speak pretty darned good english) if they knew of any new testing to extend your ED visa for another 90 days if you study thai; NOPE. I mentioned what I'd heard from other students who were there last week, which prompted the information girl to call someone who told her to tell me; NOPE.

I walked inside and sat there watching extensions being processed until it was almost 12. As they are closed an hour for lunch I walked around the impressive building and ate at the food court. Went back at 1, and watched many, many people turn in their passport, paperwork and the 1900baht. Saw them all get called back to receive their passport and extension.

Now maybe it was a off day, because during the entire time I was there I only saw about 10 caucasian foreigner, the rest were of Asian descent. However those foreigners didn't seem to do anything other than turn in their paperwork as well, I saw no one move desks to be questioned in depth or anything other than normal thai small talk chit-chat while the officer processed their paperwork. I had a really good vantage point to watch the application processing. I also ran into a principal I know from a thai language school who was out there for other business. I asked her about it, but she too had not heard of this at all.

I went back out to the information desk and got a queue number so I could ask an officer myself. I was still keeping an eye on the other applicants and what was going on inside where the officers were. Finally my number was called and I said in thai I had a question and then related the story about several students came here last week for their extension and had to speak thai to someone before they got their extension.

She was baffled, and asked the older lady behind her, who was also baffled. She in turn called someone who was just as baffled at my query. They gave me the form which shows the requirements to get extensions for both public/government schools as well as private schools. I looked it over but it seemed to just reiterate the paperwork you needed from both the MOE and your school to receive 90 day extensions of stay.

The end results of my trip; I can neither confirm nor deny that there is any type of testing or vetting going on for ED visa extensions for people enrolled in thai language classes at private schools.

Guess we'll hafta wait until someone who’s gone and extended their ED visa can report back here to us on the truth about testing.

Sorry this is kind of a let down report, but I gave it my best shot to get to the bottom of this conundrum.

[DegenFarang]

Sorry this is kind of a let down report

Let down? Probably the best news I've gotten since 'Barack Obama elected President of the United States'.

Few possibilities here I think:

-They did a random test, everybody passed and they concluded it was unnecessary to waste so much of everybody's time doing such tests on a regular basis

-It was the beginning of a random spot testing program

-Your friends were on acid last week when they told you what they saw

-Mac Walen delivered a dufflebag full of Baht to the right person this weekend and straightened the whole mess out

-All of the lazy employee's threatened to quit for having to work until 9:00 to finish the testing

Thanks for the effort and lets all cross our fingers that it stays this way...

Edited December 21, 2009 by DegenFarang

[languageexpress]

Around eight of our students have been for their three month extensions this month and to my knowledge none of them were involved in any language testing, other than one guy who told me he was asked a couple of basic questions. I got the impression this was more in the spirit of idle chit chat than serious testing. One thing we have noticed is that around a month ago the staff who handle extensions in Bangkok changed and the current people appear to be more thorough about the paperwork. (Perhaps this is related?)

I’d be surprised if Immigration can bring in formal exams without the MOE, since it is the MOE who approve schools and their curricula. I suspect the ‘language testing’ mentioned by the OP is simply local officials fed up with abuses of the system acting in an ad-hoc manner. I tutor a fairly senior immigration official three times a week, and will endeavour to find out if this is part of any wider policy/procedural changes.

In the meantime, if you attend a school with a good reputation and a well designed course you should be able to answer any questions they pose. I’ve been a certificated IELTS examiner for many years – it takes a huge amount of effort to set up and maintain accurate, valid proficiency tests - I just can’t see this kind of comprehensive testing system being implemented any time soon. So if there are any tests planned, they’re likely to be formulaic and present little real difficulty…so long as you attend classes and stay off any ‘alert’ list.