Uk Ile/ilr Based On 4 Years Plus Relationship Outside The Uk

[torrenova]

Just doing a bit of forward planning. At some point in 2010 we're probably going to go through the settlement thing based upon a 4 year plus relationship outside of the UK. My understanding is that the following procedure should work but I'd like any comments.

As she needs the KOL test to get the ILE/ILR and as that test can only be undertaken in the UK, she will have to come back to the UK on a regular 6 month visa, pass the test and then leave. Then she can apply for entry on the basis of the 4 year plus relationship and the KOL test. Entry would be given on an indefinite basis.

One question I have is whether she has to actually apply for the settlement visa in Thailand or whether that can be done from another European country (she has family in Europe and could visit them) ?

It seems very straightforward and we have the necessary evidences in place. Just a matter of having to come to the UK to do this KOL test.

I know there is a provision based upon 2 years relationship which would allow her entry with a requirement that she pass the test within a certain time frame. That would not involve her going out to make another visa application I know but it does come with additional conditions and I may wish to simply avoid those conditions by having her come on an indefinite basis from the start.

Any comments welcome.

[7by7]

She does need to meet the KOL requirement in order to get ILE; this can be done in one of two ways.

1) She can take the LitUK test whilst in the UK as a visitor. Whether you feel it is worth making a special visit just to do this is your choice. Settlement applications have to be made in the country of the applicants normal residence, so she couldn't come to the UK to take the test and then apply for settlement while visiting family in Europe. She would have to return to Thailand to apply for settlement.

2) She applies for settlement without satisfying the KOL requirement. If she otherwise qualifies for ILE then she will be given entry clearance for 27 months during which time she passes the LitUK test or a suitable ESOL with citizenship course. Once she has done so she can immediately apply for ILR without having to spend the full 24 months probationary period in the UK. She would have to pay for the ILR application, but this would probably be cheaper than the cost of a trip to the UK just to take the test, especially if you came with her on such a trip.

For more on ILE see Uk Settlement; Spouse Visa Or Ile?, Have you been married for 4 years or more?

[torrenova]

Thanks for that.

I guessed she would probably have to make the settlement application from Thailand but was perhaps hoping that there may be some dispensation if you were just not in the UK.

As for requesting settlement prior to passing the necessary test, entry with indefinite leave bypasses the recourse to public funds stipulation whereas the 27 month entry clearance does require this. In reality it is neither here nor there but I can easily satisfy the requirements for a tourist visa based on Thai based information whereas we don't currently have a business in the UK.

[7by7]

It is, of course, up to you which way you proceed. But remember, whether she will be subject to the public funds prohibition or not she will still have to show she satisfies the maintenance and accommodation requirements when she applies.

[torrenova]

It is, of course, up to you which way you proceed. But remember, whether she will be subject to the public funds prohibition or not she will still have to show she satisfies the maintenance and accommodation requirements when she applies.

I agree that the way it is drafted makes it appear applicable to all but reading some of the background documentation, constant reference is made to persons subject to immigration control which would be at odds with the indefinite leave granted. Nothing is ever stated about persons who would not be subject to immigration control. I am not sure it is totally clear that a visa would be refused to someone who qualifies for indefinite leave on the basis that they do not fulfil a criterion which would not apply were they given the visa which they qualify for and under which provision the recourse to public funds is not a consideration.

In essence, anyone qualifying for indefinite leave can claim public funds as soon as they arrive if certain non immigration conditions are met. Thus, to refuse someone on the grounds that they cannot show that they will not have recourse to public funds is an oxymoron.

I'm not 100% set on the way we will approach things and to be honest I do not foresee a problem other than the difference in waiting times to process a regular 6 month visa which, given previous travel etc. should be a formality and quick, versus a more drawn out waiting time for a settlement visa.

In practicality, they have either forgotten to include the public funds restriction in the 4 year condition or the recourse to public funds does not apply at all, if the applicant is entitled to the 4 year relationship dispensation. It does not appear possible to have both conditions operating at the same time.

[7by7]

I see what you are saying, but my reading of the immigration rules leads me to the belief that a person seeking either ILE or ILR must be able to show that they do not need public funds. (Their partner, assuming they are a UK resident, may claim any and all public funds to which they may be entitled, as long as they do not need to claim extra due to their partner living with them.)

The relevant paragraphs are 281(iv) and (v) for ILE and 287(iv) and (v) for ILR.

Those applying for ILE or ILR can claim public funds once they have been granted same; subject to the usual criteria applicable to that fund, of course.

[torrenova]

I see what you are saying, but my reading of the immigration rules leads me to the belief that a person seeking either ILE or ILR must be able to show that they do not need public funds. (Their partner, assuming they are a UK resident, may claim any and all public funds to which they may be entitled, as long as they do not need to claim extra due to their partner living with them.)

The relevant paragraphs are 281(iv) and (v) for ILE and 287(iv) and (v) for ILR.

Those applying for ILE or ILR can claim public funds once they have been granted same; subject to the usual criteria applicable to that fund, of course.

Yeah, I'd pretty much go along with that but we come back to the benefits already being received versus what is probable but not decided, benefits wise. I guess I would again go back to my argument of the difference between my entitlement alone versus my claiming for her as well and there being so small a difference that that would be the only amount I would have to show I could cover for X time period.

I don't see many problems using foreign assets but I like having options if needed.

[7by7]

As you yourself are not currently a UK resident I would strongly advise against using any public funds you may be entitled to once in the UK as a means of satisfying the maintenance requirement in the application.

Better to go with your other options, IMHO.

[torrenova]

As you yourself are not currently a UK resident I would strongly advise against using any public funds you may be entitled to once in the UK as a means of satisfying the maintenance requirement in the application.

Better to go with your other options, IMHO.

Agreed. I prefer to be in the position of a barrister though; never asking a question to which you do not already know the answer.

[manjara]

Seems like everyone is intending to go back to the UK and settle. I have been married to my Thai wife for 6 years and have 2 daughters. We lived in Thailand on and off over the last 6 years and have property there (in her name). We also have a house in the UK (in my name, I'm a UK citizen) and visited for around 4 months in 2005.

I would very much like to get something like ILE to avoid the need for my wife to get visas every time we want to go to the UK, however I don't currently have any intention of living in the UK for a significant period of time. We are currently in Turkey (last 10 months)

Is there any way to get an ILE without 'pretending' to want to settle? or is the only approach to get back to back 6 month SVs in advance (can I do this without travel dates etc?)

Any advice is welcome....

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I would personally take the KOL test whilst she is here in the UK then apply for ILR.

Edited January 12, 2010 by ThaiVisaExpress

[paully]

I would very much like to get something like ILE to avoid the need for my wife to get visas every time we want to go to the UK, however I don't currently have any intention of living in the UK for a significant period of time.

Getting the ILE is one thing, but remember that if she doesn't live in the UK for any significant period of time difficulties may be encountered in future on her re-entry. The ideal way round it would be to stay in the UK long enough for her to obtain British citizenship and a British passport.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

That would be 3 years from first entering the UK to qualify for Citizenship as his wife.

Has she previously visited the UK for example on a Tourist Visa ?

Edited January 12, 2010 by ThaiVisaExpress

[manjara]

That would be 3 years from first entering the UK to qualify for Citizenship as his wife.

Has she previously visited the UK for example on a Tourist Visa ?

Yes, we visited in 2005 on a Tourist visa (I think it was the Family visit visa actually)

I really could not spend 3 years in the UK just to get the citizenship, as my job takes me to a lot of different countries, nowadays further and further afield.

I'd have to go back and get a job with the council or something! *horror*

When we were in Thailand, it was not so bad, as we would plan a trip quite far in advance, but here in Turkey, it would be good if we could just decide to go and visit Grandad for a few days whenever the opportunity arose (or when it was needed, e.g. he was unable to get out in the recent snow to buy groceries etc)

[gregchambers]

sounds like the two year validity version of the visitors visa is what you actually want

[torrenova]

Yes, we visited in 2005 on a Tourist visa (I think it was the Family visit visa actually)

I really could not spend 3 years in the UK just to get the citizenship, as my job takes me to a lot of different countries, nowadays further and further afield.

I'd have to go back and get a job with the council or something! *horror*

When we were in Thailand, it was not so bad, as we would plan a trip quite far in advance, but here in Turkey, it would be good if we could just decide to go and visit Grandad for a few days whenever the opportunity arose (or when it was needed, e.g. he was unable to get out in the recent snow to buy groceries etc)

Forgetting the citizenship for a moment, which it appears is something that is a problem, I don't see why you cannot simply get your wife to study for the Life in UK test and then come over on a tourist visa to take the test (I understand you can retake once a week if you fail for around £30) http://www.lifeintheuktest.gov.uk/

http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1240167 http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1278112

Once she has passed the test, your wife could apply for ILE and, as I am let to understand, including following a telephone call with the relevant people today, she would be issued with ILE which does not have to be "converted" into ILR.

I also understand that once someone has ILE/ILR, then they potentially have problems if they leave the UK for more than 2 years. I do not know whether returning for say 1 day every 2 years is within the spirit of the law but it would appear to be within the letter of the law. If that is correct, then presumably your wife could manage a periodic trip to the UK to "keep her ILE alive" ?

Edit in

Sorry, your ILE on entry, not being subject to a waiting period, would be based upon your 4 plus year relationship outside the UK.

We may be able to give you permission to live permanently in the UK as soon as you arrive, if:

* you and your partner married or formed a civil partnership at least four years ago;

* you have spent those four years living together outside the UK;

* you are both coming to the UK to settle here together; and

* you have sufficient knowledge of the English language and life in the UK. (You do not need to meet this last requirement if you are aged 65 or over.)

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/partners...scivilpartners/

Edited January 12, 2010 by torrenova

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Yes she must return within two years of leaving the UK to keep the ILE valid.

[7by7]

Plus, if it became apparent to an IO that she was not resident in the UK she may be refused entry anyway!

Manjara, a 10 year visit visa is more suited to your purpose, and cheaper, than a settlement visa when you have no intention to settle.

Given your circumstances, she should be able to get one, but remember she would be limited to a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and 6 months out of any 12 in total.

[Eff1n2ret]

I also understand that once someone has ILE/ILR, then they potentially have problems if they leave the UK for more than 2 years. I do not know whether returning for say 1 day every 2 years is within the spirit of the law but it would appear to be within the letter of the law. If that is correct, then presumably your wife could manage a periodic trip to the UK to "keep her ILE alive" ?

Not really within the letter of the law as the passenger should be returning to resume residence. The instructions to Immigration Officers say this:-

"2.5. Doubts as to true intentions

Where a person seeks admission as a returning resident but there are clear and substantive reasons to doubt that the person is returning to settle in the United Kingdom, the immigration officer should try to establish his true intentions. If, after further examination, it is clear that the passenger is only visiting the United Kingdom before resuming residence overseas he should be admitted as a visitor.."

Re-admission as a visitor would have the effect of cancelling the ILR and the passenger would have to obtain a visa for subsequent trips.

[manjara]

I was not aware that I could get a 10 year visitor visa, I thought that they were always given as 6 months validity.

If I can actually get a 10 year visa, then that would be the solution, as I think even I could manage to get around to renewing once in a decade.

thanks for the replies, everyone.

[7by7]

See VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?