Thailand Loves America

[Tod Daniels]

I think you need to broaden out your demographic for who you ask the question to mate. Aim a little higher on the educated vs non educated respondents.

Tuk tuk drivers and bg's say the same thing to other farangs, from other countries. It's whoever has potential to pay at that given time.

It's not like they are gonna say, "You from America? oh I dislike America".

While I am loathe to side with "bkkjames" on ANY issue. On this one, I must concur with his assessment.

The degree any thai will share opinions with foreigners is tied directly into the amount of income they derive from said foreigners. Rarely will someone, no matter how uneducated here, yet who works in the tourism related industry 'shoot themselves in the foot", by voicing ANY anti-foreign 'sediment'<sic>.

In speaking to thais that are more educated in world affairs and whose incomes are not derived in commerce with tourism (yes I do know some!! ), I have found they are as diverse in their opinions of people from other countries as I am. Like me some of those opinions are certainly painted with a very broad brush using sweeping and or erroneous generalities. Add in the reticence thai have built in to withhold criticism (at least until you're out of ear shot), and you're likely NEVER to know what they're really thinking or even if they are . ... thinking at all

You put entirely too much emphasis on just how important you perceive yourself to be here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", as well as caring way too much what other countries think about the USA.

To be completely honest; most thais don't really give a flyin f*uck about foreigners either way, unless it impacts them directly.

[bkkjames]

I think you need to broaden out your demographic for who you ask the question to mate. Aim a little higher on the educated vs non educated respondents.

Tuk tuk drivers and bg's say the same thing to other farangs, from other countries. It's whoever has potential to pay at that given time.

It's not like they are gonna say, "You from America? oh I dislike America".

While I am loathe to side with "bkkjames" on ANY issue. On this one, I must concur with his assessment.

The degree any thai will share opinions with foreigners is tied directly into the amount of income they derive from said foreigners. Rarely will someone, no matter how uneducated here, yet who works in the tourism related industry 'shoot themselves in the foot", by voicing ANY anti-foreign 'sediment'<sic>.

In speaking to thais that are more educated in world affairs and whose incomes are not derived in commerce with tourism (yes I do know some!! ), I have found they are as diverse in their opinions of people from other countries as I am. Like me some of those opinions are certainly painted with a very broad brush using sweeping and or erroneous generalities. Add in the reticence thai have built in to withhold criticism (at least until you're out of ear shot), and you're likely NEVER to know what they're really thinking or even if they are . ... thinking at all

You put entirely too much emphasis on just how important you perceive yourself to be here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", as well as caring way too much what other countries think about the USA.

To be completely honest; most thais don't really give a flyin f*uck about foreigners either way, unless it impacts them directly.

Thanks Tod - you just made my 2009 mate!

[Dakhar]

My litmus test, I don't feel the desire to tell Thais I am Canadian. Perhaps with some exceptions in South Thailand.

I have been and lived in many places around the globe. I have never told anyone I was Canadian and never will. I tell them the truth that I am American.

When I lived in Paris, the Canadians would show up (with the required Canadian flag sewn somewhere visible) and tell the Parisians that they too didn't like Americans. Problem with that is the the Parisians didn't dislike Americans any more than they disliked everyone else. But they were appalled by the Quebecois the Canadians spoke. Americans who tell people they're Canadians are wusses.

With my SE Texan accent..... I don't think I could claim to anything but American. Sadly, I may sound a little like G W Bush though...

[Ulysses G.]

(Reading some of the other posts here on this thread US posters need to grow some skin. Getting offended at some lame jibes from Brits on an internet forum, grow up for god's sake!)

Yeah, like it is just once in a while.

[tomahawk]

Once again, these incidents occurred while I was with farangs from other countries besides America. If I were alone, I would agree it was just a matter of politeness that they expressed this pro-American sentiment. However, my point is it was not just politeness or we all would have received this same amount of politeness, which was not the case. And who said anything about tuk-tuk drivers? I do not even ride in tuk-tuks. And as far as the "most thais don't give a flying &lt;deleted&gt;&gt; about foreigners," I have found most of the people here to be very friendly, and perhaps if someone has a different experience, their own attitude might have something to do with this.

[dumbnewbie]

(Reading some of the other posts here on this thread US posters need to grow some skin. Getting offended at some lame jibes from Brits on an internet forum, grow up for god's sake!)

Yeah, like it is just once in a while.

Heh! Precisely.

On the original topic, I think Thais may regard America in higher esteem than some other countries based on a number of factors. First, of course, there is Hollywood and American pop music - they pretty much dominate everywhere.

Next, I'd have to guess that there are more Thais in the US than in any other foreign country, so Thais have more experience with the US, and if other posts in this thread are credible, apparently they largely have a good experience in the US. Being a country of immigrants, America is far more welcoming to immigrants than many other countries. I've heard the same opinion from Hong Kong people, for instance - that they feel much more comfortable and accepted in America than in the UK, or even Australia or Canada (despite the latter two also being immigrant countries).

Then there is the fact that Thailand has historically been very shrewd at maintaining its independence by aligning itself with the most powerful nations at any given time, or if there were more than one, then balancing them off against each other. Thus they kept good relations with both the French (in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) and the British (in Burma and Malaya), later shifting alliance to the ascendant Japanese in WWII, but back to the allies before the end of the war, and to the US during the Cold War and Vietnam war. Without that alliance, Vietnam would've easily overrun Thailand after taking Laos and Cambodia. I think Thais and Asians in general have a much more realistic view of international politics, having their own experience with both Communist and Islamic terrorism/insurgency, and being grateful for American help in keeping their country independent and prosperous relative to neighbors which fell under Communism.

Finally, the Thais have no problem acknowledging the US as they don't have any pretensions to world power status, unlike the European powers which destroyed each other in WWII, or certain scattered remnants of the British Empire, which still exhibit a lot of sour grapes for some reason.

Edited December 30, 2009 by dumbnewbie

[Ulysses G.]

or certain scattered remnants of the British Empire, which still exhibit a lot of sour grapes for some reason.

despite our "special relationship".

[trompelemonde]

I said "feel the desire" mate. Perhaps you don't patronize Islamic businesses filled with people who look like Osama Bin Laden's cousins. Sometimes I do. Some of those people want to kill us. As a gay American Jew (Triple Bonus Points!), to some of those people, smiting me would mean instant free flowing virgins. I don't want my food poisoned either, does that sound pleasant? If once in a blue moon I have to tell a white lie and call myself a Canuck, so be it. For American white bread types who don't venture beyond the Holiday Inn or Hard Rock Cafe, these minor ethical issues never come up. I suspect the poster hurling wuss names is one of those types.

Is 'White Bread Types' a pejorative term, perhaps crude stereotyping? (not being American I don't know).

In which case...........hmmmmmmm

[Jingthing]

Is 'White Bread Types' a pejorative term, perhaps crude stereotyping? (not being American I don't know).

In which case...........hmmmmmmm

Google is your friend, OK? Yeah it is descriptive and mildly pejorative. So what?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whitebread

Believe me, American white bread types don't frequent Iranian restaurants in Muslim countries. So they don't directly encounter virulent anti-Americanism the way more open minded American/"Canadians" do. Rather, they avoid the real world in their safe little don't have to fake being Canadian cocoons ...

Edited December 30, 2009 by Jingthing

[Sherlocke]

...and when I say I'm from OZ - they say "OZ number one"

and Italy - "Italy number one"

UK - "UK number one.....

Earthian = "Earthia number one"

Mars - "mars number one"

[Sherlocke]

"I'd have to guess that there are more Thais in the US than in any other foreign country," - possibly but what about Oz, Malsysia, Singapore, etc etc?

[dave_boo]

As an aside, I usually get asked "Where you from...Amerlika?". Even before I get a word out and this is in the sticks...so perhaps there's a truth to the other posters.

[Birdman]

Nobody ever in many years all around T said that to me, rather "Sweden?", "Germany?"

It depends how you look like...

Edited December 30, 2009 by Birdman

[Sherlocke]

Is this OP just some kind of plea? well someone thinks we're nice....really!....or is it a sad reflection on your average Thai?

[rayong09]

Ohhh how I can't wait until June the 12th...

[a2396]

I agree basically with the OP. Thailand people and government are for the most part pro American. I like it. It beats being spit in the face, like in Malaysia.

I never got spit in the face there (Malaysia), but they were not very enamored with American foreign policy or America in general. As for my situation, this fact is another plus for Thailand as a place to live for me.

[caf]

Thailand and Thais in general have a great affinity for America. I think it has little to do with the fact that Americans are "big tippers."

Most American travelers have had plenty of experiences all over the world of people who appreciate our help, our culture and our generosity and most of them do not stand to get any tips for going out of their way to say so.

The truth is that when you are number one, you always have to listen to second rate people and second rate countries trying to bring you down to their level.

I have been listening to anti-American pap since I was a young child, but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially and in all of my travels, I have never been any place better.

God Bless America and

"but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially"

perhaps that's the problem.

should america be so involved with thailand militarily and financially. i think that is a mistake. the country is useful as being maintained as a buffer state . maybe too many memories of the r and r. but this is now the 21st century politics should move on. maybe it slowly is now.

[caf]

So the U.S citizen get "discount" because they are so popular?

Yeah, we sure do. For example I was told to pay 1.5M in sin sod but after asking for a discount I ended up paying just 1 million, a whopping 500.000 Baht discount! I still waiting to see my bride though. How long after paying sin sod will you finally get to see her?

give 500000 baht now and you see her as soon as the check clears.

(that puts you back to 1.5m)

[caf]

I'm not sure how much its reflected in the institutional memory of Thailand, but the US has been the predominant foreign power involved in the nation since WWII.

The Brits wanted to treat Thailand as a defeated enemy nation after WWII due to its cooperation with the Japanese, but the US stopped that. Of course the SE Asia fights against communism were almost exclusively US-backed (after the French lost at Dien Bien Phu in 1954). There were something like 53 US bases or posts in Thailand the 1960s. That influence, through intermarriage and cultural exposure, still has impacts today.

Certainly US films, music and TV shows -- not to mention the Internet -- continue to be the most popular in the world. I would say European sports (football) and Japanese/Korean fashions in dress are more influential in those fields than from the US.

"due to its cooperation with the Japanese"

cooperation? Thailand declared war on America and England. So yes it was a defeated enemy nation, by any definition - American or British. The difference of opinion was on reparations.

Even as allies the Japanese treated Thailand as occuped territory. They used asians on the Burma Death railway in their ultimate desire to get to India. If it were not for America and Britain, what language would be spoken in LOS?

America wanted Thailand as a buffer state, that is the reason for the involvement.

[caf]

Granted, we weren't the ones who rescued democracy during ww2. And there were lots of good British bands.

Absolutely right.

One of the spoof songs played at the time about the yanks started

" Over sexed, over paid, and over here..."

But let's not bash one particular country, PB

We were all allies during WW2

If we had lost where would we all be. Europe and Southeast asia under Axis control. I doubt if America could then have stopped their ultimate ambitions.

[Ulysses G.]

"but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially"

perhaps that's the problem.

Of course, but there have always been dominate nations and there probably always will be. However, America is probably the most benign superpower of all time and if China takes over, we will be remembered with great fondness.

[ferd54]

"So yes it was a defeated enemy nation, by any definition - American or British.... the Japanese treated Thailand as occuped territory.

If the Japanese treated Thailand as occupied territory, how could Thailand be its true ally and hence of its own free will declare war on the Western powers? Flaw in your logic there.

The military dictator of Thailand sided with the Japanese after they had already attacked and easily subdued Thailand. Like so often with the Thais, he was playing all sides, and I'm sure that did save Thai lives (and made a fortune for himself).

Amazing to go Kanchanaburi Death Railway cemetary see how many other nationalities the Thais did not try to save. I was surprised by the number of Indians.

[caf]

"but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially"

perhaps that's the problem.

Of course, but there have always been dominate nations and there probably always will be. However, America is probably the most benign superpower of all time and if China takes over, we will be remembered with great fondness.

I agree about China but I would be happier if, partly as a counter to that, America and Europe and some other countries got together rather than have one dominant power.

Perhaps " dominate together with like-minded nations" would have fitted.

But "we still dominate the world" was likely to ruffle some feathers.

Anyway, happy new year

caf

[caf]

"So yes it was a defeated enemy nation, by any definition - American or British.... the Japanese treated Thailand as occuped territory.

If the Japanese treated Thailand as occupied territory, how could Thailand be its true ally and hence of its own free will declare war on the Western powers? Flaw in your logic there.

The military dictator of Thailand sided with the Japanese after they had already attacked and easily subdued Thailand. Like so often with the Thais, he was playing all sides, and I'm sure that did save Thai lives (and made a fortune for himself).

Amazing to go Kanchanaburi Death Railway cemetary see how many other nationalities the Thais did not try to save. I was surprised by the number of Indians.

I completly agree your second paragraph.

On your second paragraph, I too was amazed at the different nationalities buried in the cemeteries. There were of course more Asian dead than westerners. Very few asian bodies were however found. The museum had lots of interesting books and information and the staff very knowledgable. Hope you enjoyed that if you visited.

Considering the fact that the Japanese were actually in control in Thailand ( I used the words "treated Thailand as occupied territory" ) I don't think they could do a great deal to save more people. There was some resistance but it could not be effective.

( a parallel is the French Resistance and Vichy France)

May I wish you a happy new year

Caf

PS I don't think there is a flaw in my logic. The Thais were hardly using " their own free will" - they had just suffered a defeat by the Japanese. The Thai ambassador in Washington originally refused to deliever the war declaration.

[britadders28]

"but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially"

perhaps that's the problem.

Of course, but there have always been dominate nations and there probably always will be. However, America is probably the most benign superpower of all time and if China takes over, we will be remembered with great fondness.

I agree about China but I would be happier if, partly as a counter to that, America and Europe and some other countries got together rather than have one dominant power.

Perhaps " dominate together with like-minded nations" would have fitted.

But "we still dominate the world" was likely to ruffle some feathers.

Anyway, happy new year

caf

they loved america during vietnam war as they thought america were going to win

they loved Japan during WWII as they thought america was going to win

They believe alot they see in the movies - the rich teeny chic flick

I had my girlfriend watching films set in downtown newyork or yanks living in cardboard boxes on the street, how money doesnt make you happy just look at many messed up yanks

She changed her views a bit but still doesnt believe america has real poor people

Another time we was watching an old clip from Band Aid and she asked my why people in africa looked like that (skinny) I told her thats what really poor people look like, i got back my mum and dad more poor, no i say your mum and dad have food and water, roof over their head! THEY just dont get it, they need educating plain and simple!!!

[britadders28]

"but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially"

perhaps that's the problem.

Of course, but there have always been dominate nations and there probably always will be. However, America is probably the most benign superpower of all time and if China takes over, we will be remembered with great fondness.

I agree about China but I would be happier if, partly as a counter to that, America and Europe and some other countries got together rather than have one dominant power.

Perhaps " dominate together with like-minded nations" would have fitted.

But "we still dominate the world" was likely to ruffle some feathers.

Anyway, happy new year

caf

they loved america during vietnam war as they thought america were going to win

they loved Japan during WWII as they thought america was going to win

They believe alot they see in the movies - the rich teeny chic flick

I had my girlfriend watching films set in downtown newyork or yanks living in cardboard boxes on the street, how money doesnt make you happy just look at many messed up yanks

She changed her views a bit but still doesnt believe america has real poor people

Another time we was watching an old clip from Band Aid and she asked my why people in africa looked like that (skinny) I told her thats what really poor people look like, i got back my mum and dad more poor, no i say your mum and dad have food and water, roof over their head! THEY just dont get it, they need educating plain and simple!!!

sorry should read thought japan were going to win

[Ulysses G.]

"but we still dominate the world both militarily and financially"

perhaps that's the problem.

Of course, but there have always been dominate nations and there probably always will be. However, America is probably the most benign superpower of all time and if China takes over, we will be remembered with great fondness.

I agree about China but I would be happier if, partly as a counter to that, America and Europe and some other countries got together rather than have one dominant power.

Perhaps " dominate together with like-minded nations" would have fitted.

But "we still dominate the world" was likely to ruffle some feathers.

It was meant to ruffle some feathers, but it is also true and that is why it is so fashionable to talk &lt;deleted&gt; about America. Everybody wants to be on top, but there is not that much room there.

I also would prefer the US and Europe to "rule the world" together - that would be preferable to China or Russia running things - but, so far, the Europeans can hardly even get together on a common currency. They resent the US running the show, but it is a lot better than most of the alternatives and they are slitting their own throats by not standing with us. If they do bring the America down, they will live to regret it.

[Credo]

I live with a Thai who does University recruiting. He has worked in the field for many years. He worked for a US University for many years, then a British University, now his work is split between the UK and US. He has always found that the vast majority want to go to the US. That could be because there are a lot of schools there. He maintains that people have strong feelings about getting to the US.

From my own perspective, I think that one of the reasons they seem to like the US is because it's known. They know who the President is, they the movies, the stars, the music etc. From the most educated to the least informed, they can usually talk about the US. They can do this to a much lesser degree with other countries.

[beechguy]

Thats ok Beechguy, I will call Obama evil for you!!!!

I found it amazing while living in the UAE during the US presidential election why so many foreigners were happier with Obamas victory than the Americans!!! Foreigners were even having parties for Obama as if he was the president of the world.

Oh by the way my wife (Thai, Nurse and our residence is not the US and she has no wishes to ever immigrate to the US) has been turned down for an American Tourist visa twice and now going for her thrid try in Jan. Yet the Nigerian terrorist held a multiple US visa? should we put more emphasis on airport security or should Countries take more care in issuing visitor visas to terrorist or both?

Happy New Years to all

Thanks, but I hope you understand what I meant. I get really tired of the Bush bashing, especially by people who have never been involved in certain parts of the world. I suppose they think Pakistan and Ahfghanistan are better off under the Taliban or al Qaeda?

Also, so far as real crimes, look how many innocent people are getting killed in the streets and market places by their operatives. Where's the comments of moral outrage about that?

Happy New Years to you too!

Edited December 31, 2009 by beechguy

[ferd54]

that would be preferable to China or Russia running things

Like Soviet nuclear power during the Cold War, the actual strength of China is vastly overestimated by those who think it will one day soon become the dominant power in the world.

They have a lot of peasants and a vast workforce, but when they try to get something organized it's a "cluster &lt;deleted&gt;". Sure they can throw unlimited amounts of money and a brute workforce at some showpiece like the Olympics and do an excellent job (with the help of huge numbers of foreign advisers), and build world-class infrastructure, but their ability to lead anything other than peasants has a very long way to go.

While people watch its growing trade numbers and think China has suddenly gone from one of the most backward to one of the most developed countries on earth, they are unaware of the facts on the ground. The county's 800 million peasants live in African-level poverty. As well, the impacts of Mao's policies can hardly be overestimated. People are still rushing around like someone who has been traumatized, afraid the next bus will be the last -- forever. I have never met such fear-filled and immature people in my life.

Their ability to usefully interact with -- let alone dominate -- a foreign culture is close to zero. They can do it within their own borders because the people they're dominating are even more impoverished. If it's not Han Chinese, they are completely freaked out by it, so like the Borg in Star Trek, they are busily digesting those places, leaving behind just a show of the former culture -- quaint "ethnic minorities" who all wear colorful clothes and love to sing.

Russia, for its part, is weakened due to its over-reliance on oil and gas to fuel the economy and a bent for criminals of one type or another in power. They are plenty violent, that's for sure, but to effectively take over and lead the world hardly seems likely.

Edited December 31, 2009 by ferd54