Don't Give A Rip About English

[TAWP]

Why should the stores have english speakers? perhaps they should have german, russian, dutch etc as well.

Does your home country cater for all foreiners by having multi lingual staff om hand?

Learn Thai if you are going to live here.

- Tourists shouldn't need to learn Thai.

- Most store staff back home can speak atleast basic English, if not fairly fluently.

On a wider front, English is the lingua franca of modern international business - not just the language needed to communicate with some grumpy old foreigner trying to buy whatever it is grumpy old foreigners buy, but also the language that international business contracts are written in and conducted with.

In that context Thailand does pretty poorly when it comes to speaking and working with this language of international business.

But let's focus on foreigners not learning Thai in the fine tradition of sticking one's head in the sand.

Oh, scary, I am agreeing with GH.

*offtopic*

Country's like America are passing "English only laws",

No, they are not and will not anytime soon.

Neither the US nor my home country has the language spoken as ist national language, even if it seemingly is the national language de facto due to usage.

Seeing as to how big German was in the old days of the nation [uS], maybe it was a good thing for some of you that they never legislated or inscribed a specific language to be the 'true one'.

[bonobo]

Surely you cannot call Quebec'' Francophone Canada '', it is only a province , a very beautifull province , but still only a province ?

Quebec is regularly referred to as Francophone Canada, as also has it along with the other million Francophones scattered throughout the country.  All "Francophone" means is speaking French as your primary language. And with most of the population in Quebec being Francophones, and as French is the official language of the province, and as Quebec is part of Canada, yes, the term fits.

I am a US citizen, but I have always had a little bit of a love affair going on with Canada (my dad was born there), and have spent quite a bit of time in the Maritimes, Quebec, and BC.  I have heard the term used there quite a few times.

[caf]

Chinese has dialects. An 'alphabet' with a trillion characters. Thais will never learn that.

Languages not dialects. The characters are words.

The only alphabet is pinyin using Roman letters.

Something like pinyin would be useful here to avoid the many transliteration systems.

[caf]

It seems one can no longer directly "Quote" an OP in a reply.

Be that as it may, as an early Candidate for "Pedant of the Year 2010" I would like to point out that when the OP opines:

"I never cease to be amazed at the apparent disinterest in having English speaking employees,"

he is himself displaying a distinct lack of correct English language usage.

"disinterest" is not the same as "uninterest", however it sounds far more erudite and thus, I presume, the OP was seduced into using the word.

To explain:

A Judge in a Court of Law is "disinterested" - which means he is open minded, i.e. he has no pre-conceived ideas on a case before him and is prepared to make his decision based on the presentations of Counsel as they deliver their arguments.

He is definitely NOT "uninterested" - which actually means that he is not interested in anything anyone says on the matter.

Patrick

I was going to post in a similar vein, but you have done the job very accurately with good examples.

Not sure those examples apply to Thailand though

[caf]

It's not English; it's Thailish. It's rubbish.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand

Going to be banning yourself then PB?

It's not extremely negative to post that Thailish is rubbish in a thread about how to pronounce English. But kids named Pakadol in Thai can say Pakadon and so should we.

Still not very nice though, PB

A Thai reading your comments would not like the way you wrote.

[IanForbes]

Surely you cannot call Quebec'' Francophone Canada '', it is only a province , a very beautifull province , but still only a province ?

Quebec is regularly referred to as Francophone Canada, as also has it along with the other million Francophones scattered throughout the country. All "Francophone" means is speaking French as your primary language. And with most of the population in Quebec being Francophones, and as French is the official language of the province, and as Quebec is part of Canada, yes, the term fits.

I am a US citizen, but I have always had a little bit of a love affair going on with Canada (my dad was born there), and have spent quite a bit of time in the Maritimes, Quebec, and BC. I have heard the term used there quite a few times.

And here I thought Francophone was an Italian expression.... As in Frank-ah-phone, Luigi-ah-phone, or Josepi-ah-phone.

[SeanMoran]

Regarding the correct pronunciation of proper Thinglish, I had a classic here at the apartment reception desk the other night. There're around half a dozen cats that hang around here in and out of the lobby and gardens; a couple of them kittens. One seems to have taken a liking to me after a few times when I've rescued it from the hot tin roof or offered a bowl of milk every now and then on some nights when it looks and sounds thirsty etc.

So a few nights ago I was walking upstairs to my room and somehow this kitten snuck under the front counter through the office door to the stairwell, and made to follow me upstairs before the night manager caught up with it and put it out for the night.

Next morning, after being reminded that the cat following me up to my room was the gossip of the day, I asked what the cat's name was. I believe that the words transliterate into something like "Miao chue arai?" but can't be sure. Anyway, Miss Nok at reception replied, "Can-DEE."

"Oh okay," I said, recognising another western name for the favourite cats around here like good old Lobert the tomcat. "CANdee." said I in the usual fashion with emphasis on the first syllable.

"No!" exclaimed Miss Nok. "Can-DEE!"

That one I'll have to put right up there with "Hon-DAH."

[Dakhar]

We got a neighbor who named their son, "Mud." One day my wife asked the mother what inspired her to name her child "Mud." The woman with a sparkle in her eyes said... "Don't you know... "Mud" is English and it means when two objects or beings connect and become one... they Mud together to form one."

Moral of the story.... "Don't think to mut or you just might end up with mud"

[dumball]

A recent wealthy Italian had a custom house built in Ontario , on inspection of the completed project he expressed his delight "Just-a-like-a-back-home ""But -a-tel-a-me , what all the funny little men in all da roms ?" "Well sir , they are the statues you ordered " "No no no , I wanna statues , you know , you pick up and say "Hello , stat-yu ".

[dumball]

Priorstp , I am sorry , I think you have my post a little skewed , I did not do what many call "Using a wide brush " to generalise , there is no way (As you say ) all Thai could learn English , far be it for me to even suggest that silly idea . I merely thought that in the interest of running any buisiness with a modicum of success in a touristy area , a minimum of English would be a good asset , as in , on my first trip to Thailand I used a small store close to the hotel for convenience items merely by picking them up or pointing , no problem . However , on entering the store one day , the man who was always sat in the store , was conversing in good English with some sort of rep (I presumed) , when I asked him why he had not assisted me on previous visits "You want to come to our country , learn our language ". This is that to which I refer .

[PeaceBlondie]

Still not very nice though, PB

A Thai reading your comments would not like the way you wrote.

caf - you are not Thai. I don't accept negative criticism from you.

[priorstp]

Fair enough dumball, atleast i got to explain my point.

and yes if someone was to say that to me i would be unamused, i believe fairly in the give and take approach and have never had the experience you quote.

Lets hope that time and patience with Thailand can see it prosper in the future as i find it to be a beautiful country and the people are some of the most friendly people i have met. I do however think that somehow the tourist trade has scared many areas of Thailand. This is why i now preffer to visit the more rural areas of Thailand and feel that i get to experience the true culture, lifestlye and people much more than any tourist spot could.

Maybe a new post could give some ideas of how the many problems like the new drug culture being imported and the overun of hookers which i feel puts many families off of visiting Thailand could be solved.

[maccaroni man]

Comparing Singapore to Thailand is like comparing Canada to Botswana, ok. Don't even go there.

Thailand has never needed English except when it came to providing the R&R for American and Australian servicemen during the Vietnam war era. French was of more use during the colonial times since it was the French that called the shots, slicing off bits and pieces of the Kingdom when they so wished. Thailand's foreign affairs people at the time spoke French. And then came the period of subservience to Japan, where a knowledge of Japanese was important. Today as China looms, the need will be to speak Chinese, not English. There really is little need for English. If one wanrted to service the tourist trade, I'd think Swedish would me of more use, at least certainly more profitable since the Swedes are big tourism spenders, whereas Hindi, Arabic and Urdu speakers are not.

swedes are required to learn english as are the fins and many other european countries. My big issue is in a place like Hua Hin where there are large numbers of tourist and expats yet finding staff that speaks english is very rare:(

[priorstp]

swedes are required to learn english as are the fins and many other european countries. My big issue is in a place like Hua Hin where there are large numbers of tourist and expats yet finding staff that speaks english is very rare:(

If they paid the wages then they would get the staff....."Pay peanuts and you get monkeys" but unfortunately that would mean that the tourist would complain about how expensive Thailand is.

[alyx]

I am sorry if other posters have written about it already (too long a thread to read about such a trivial matter) but I would like to point out to the OP that Khon Khaen is in Thailand and, although a great place to live in, I am sure (I would not know actually), definitily not an international hub.

"Businesses having a fair amount of foreign clientèle": Robinson, Tesco, Big C, Carrefour. Are these, nicknames for Vuitton, Cartier, Armani, Rolex? (it is clientele and not clientèle which is in French.You have a French tabulator so you are French speaking?)

At least you understand that Malaisia and India cannot be compared to Thailand (which has never been colonized) where everyone speaks Thai. In those countries, many different languages/dialects are spoken:this is why a common language was needed.

Have you ever been to France, Spain?: try to speak English there; you might be in for a surprise and definitely in bigger cities than Khon Khaen's alike.

Maybe your "young well educated Thai friends" cannot find a job because they are looking for a higher pay than Baht 4,000 (or whatever the minimum is)

It seems that you have posted more because the persons you know are jobless; you should tell them to send their CV to as many "international orientated" businesses as possible

Chinese is spoken by the most number of people, Spanish is the economic language, French used to be spoken by the last centuries' "High So" etc....so even if it is frustrating not to be understood by the locals, be it.

By the way (I hope I am not breaking any Netiquette's rules) I think you meant lack of interest rather than disinterest (unbiased as having no part / no stake) but if you are French or so it is understandable - no offence meant.

Actually I can't believe that this post has attracted so much interest and reactions

Edited January 5, 2010 by alyx

[a2396]

I am sorry if other posters have written about it already (too long a thread to read about such a trivial matter) but I would like to point out to the OP that Khon Khaen is in Thailand and, although a great place to live in, I am sure (I would not know actually), definitily not an international hub.

"Businesses having a fair amount of foreign clientèle": Robinson, Tesco, Big C, Carrefour. Are these, nicknames for Vuitton, Cartier, Armani, Rolex? (it is clientele and not clientèle which is in French.You have a French tabulator so you are French speaking?)

At least you understand that Malaisia and India cannot be compared to Thailand (which has never been colonized) where everyone speaks Thai. In those countries, many different languages/dialects are spoken:this is why a common language was needed.

Have you ever been to France, Spain?: try to speak English there; you might be in for a surprise and definitely in bigger cities than Khon Khaen's alike.

Maybe your "young well educated Thai friends" cannot find a job because they are looking for a higher pay than Baht 4,000 (or whatever the minimum is)

It seems that you have posted more because the persons you know are jobless; you should tell them to send their CV to as many "international orientated" businesses as possible

Chinese is spoken by the most number of people, Spanish is the economic language, French used to be spoken by the last centuries' "High So" etc....so even if it is frustrating not to be understood by the locals, be it.

By the way (I hope I am not breaking any Netiquette's rules) I think you meant lack of interest rather than disinterest (unbiased as having no part / no stake) but if you are French or so it is understandable - no offence meant.

Actually I can't believe that this post has attracted so much interest and reactions

Just to address a few of your comments – No, I am not French. I think another poster has commented that my use of the word disinterested was appropriate. Below are definitions of uninterested and disinterested from two online dictionaries. For the most part, they are synonymous, depending on the sentence you are using.

dis·in·ter·est (ds-ntr-st, -ntrst)

n.

1. Freedom from selfish bias or self-interest; impartiality.

2. Lack of interest; indifference.

un·in·ter·est (n-ntrst, -tr-st, -trst)

n.

Lack of interest or concern; indifference.

disinterest was found in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary at the entries listed below.

disinterest noun NOT INTERESTED

As for critique regarding the word clientele. It was probably an oversight of mine in using the auto spelling choices. You will note that the two words are spelled identically. I am sure, with your obvious high level of knowledge regarding English usage, you know what I meant. In case you are still confused, below is the definition.

cli·en·tele (kln-tl, klän-)

n.

1. The clients of a professional person or practice considered as a group.

2. A body of customers or patrons: a restaurant's clientele.

As for the other points I was trying to make, again I realize that Khon Kaen is no tourist Mecca. However, it is not a remote corner of Outer Mongolia either. I recent news story posted on this website states that Thailand expects to have 16 million foreign visitors in 2010. I would suppose that most of them are using English as their functional language here. It is apparently also true that English is taught for the twelve years of public schooling (in Thailand) and therefore in might not be to far out of range to expect graduates to have some basic knowledge of such.

I do not expect that every store clerk would know English, but at least in areas where there are large numbers of foreign visitors or in stores where there are a fair number of foreign shoppers (Big C, Tesco, etc), that one might find one or two staff available for such customer service. Hopefully it would not break the stores budget to pay these one or two employees a few bht extra.

[Dakhar]

those that have strong English know it, and they know their abilities are worth a heck of a lot more than a few baht. Trouble is, finding an Employer that agrees with that.

I know of one guy that speaks perfect English with ZERO accent. When you speak with him you will think he is from the US. But he was born and raised in Thailand.

He wants 50+K or he will not work.... and as a result he does not work

[caf]

  

Edited January 6, 2010 by bonobo
Removed text. Please use the report function or PM if you have a problem with another poster and not use the open forum.

[Furbie]

I am sorry if other posters have written about it already (too long a thread to read about such a trivial matter) but I would like to point out to the OP that Khon Khaen is in Thailand and, although a great place to live in, I am sure (I would not know actually), definitily not an international hub.

"Businesses having a fair amount of foreign clientèle": Robinson, Tesco, Big C, Carrefour. Are these, nicknames for Vuitton, Cartier, Armani, Rolex? (it is clientele and not clientèle which is in French.You have a French tabulator so you are French speaking?)

At least you understand that Malaisia and India cannot be compared to Thailand (which has never been colonized) where everyone speaks Thai. In those countries, many different languages/dialects are spoken:this is why a common language was needed.

Have you ever been to France, Spain?: try to speak English there; you might be in for a surprise and definitely in bigger cities than Khon Khaen's alike.

Maybe your "young well educated Thai friends" cannot find a job because they are looking for a higher pay than Baht 4,000 (or whatever the minimum is)

It seems that you have posted more because the persons you know are jobless; you should tell them to send their CV to as many "international orientated" businesses as possible

Chinese is spoken by the most number of people, Spanish is the economic language, French used to be spoken by the last centuries' "High So" etc....so even if it is frustrating not to be understood by the locals, be it.

By the way (I hope I am not breaking any Netiquette's rules) I think you meant lack of interest rather than disinterest (unbiased as having no part / no stake) but if you are French or so it is understandable - no offence meant.

Actually I can't believe that this post has attracted so much interest and reactions

Sorry, but English is spoken by the most number of people.

[bonobo]

Peripherally related to this thread, I have always been bemused and a little surprised by the amount of English used in Thai-directed advertising and names.  

First, for names, you have Thai stores such as Big C Superstores and Top Charoen Optical.  The Big C signs are exclusively in English, but at least the Top Charoen Optical also have Thai written.  Most housing complexes are in English as well.  Here in Omyai, a nearby housing complex is called "Full House," for example.

But even in advertising written in Thai, English words are scattered throughout the text.  While driving to work today, I saw a billboard completely written in Thai except for the word "SURPRISE" written in the middle of the Thai text.  "Sale," "Discount," and "Happy" are words I often see stuck in amidst Thai text.

As English is not widely spoken in Thailand, I am a little bemused by English usage like this (as I wrote above.)

 

[caf]

There has been an exchange of pms as you may or may not know. And there was and still is no need to use the report button as the matter with PB seems resolved to both our satisfactions.

I have deleted the rest of my reply as, although true and pertinent, matters are better left.

Caf