Extension Of Stay Based On Having A Thai Child

[expatman]

Does anyone have RECENT experience in BANGKOK with getting an extension of stay based on having a Thai child ?

For the 60-day extension it appears the only requirement is "proof of relationship". What does this mean in practice ? Does the original birth certificate in which I am named as the father suffice ?

For a longer extension (up to 1 year) it appears that besides "proof of relationship" average annual income of 40,000 baht per month or bank deposit of 400,000 baht is required. What documentation is required to prove average income - would a Thai income tax witholding certificate (for 2009) suffice ? If using the bank deposit method, how long does the money have to be on deposit before applying ? In a case of extension based on a Thai wife (but we are not officially married) the money must be on deposit for the past 2 (maybe 3) months, but I can't find any mention of time requirement in the regulations when applying based on having a Thai child.

Thanks to all we can contribute recent experiences, as I know the "rules" vary over time and place.

[webfact]

You say you are not married and I think you mean "extension based om supporting a Thai child..

Does the original birth certificate in which I am named as the father suffice

I was in a similar situation years ago. You need to have "parental power" otherwise you are not the "legal father" according to Thai law.

The birth certificate alone is not sufficient.

If your child is less than 7y old parental power can only be decided/granted by the courts. In legal terms you must sue the mother of your child

Other members may have more detailed information

Edited January 6, 2010 by webfact

[expatman]

You say you are not married and I think you mean "extension based om supporting a Thai child..

Does the original birth certificate in which I am named as the father suffice

I was in a similar situation years ago. You need to have "parental power" otherwise you are not the "legal father" according to Thai law.

The birth certificate alone is not sufficient.

If your child is less than 7y old parental power can only be decided/granted by the courts. In legal terms you must sue the mother of your child

Other members may have more detailed information

I am talking about

section 2.24

"In the case of an alien visiting a Thai spouse or child : Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 60 days at a time."

and

section 2.18

"In the case of a family member of a Thai (applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse)" : Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time."

Neither section mentions "support", though I suppose that would be the justification for the longer extension.

Your situation "years ago" may or may not be relevent, as my son is 8 years old. However, I recall that when applying for a Thai passport for my son my written consent as the father was required.

AGAIN : Anyone with RECENT experience on this ?

[MikeyIdea]

Sorry I can't give advice based on recent experience but I hope that my little advice can come in handy anyway

I assume: You never married the mother and you don't have your name twice on the birth certificate. You do not have parental power.

The child is 8 years old so it is EASY to fix (court decision is not needed according to Thai law). You must go to the amphur where the child is residing according to tabien baan with the mother and the child and together all three, you request a bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership). Both mother and child must approve. There is no need for a lawyer, it took me less than half a day and cost wasn't even 100 bath if I remember right

Good Luck

Edited January 6, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

I read in the visa forum that people last year reported that it is enough with the bai rapp long bott in Bangkok but that westeners need the por kor 14 form (stating that they have sole custody of the child) in Pattaya

Edited January 6, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[expatman]

Sorry I can't give advice based on recent experience but I hope that my little advice can come in handy anyway

I assume: You never married the mother and you don't have your name twice on the birth certificate. You do not have parental power.

The child is 8 years old so it is EASY to fix (court decision is not needed according to Thai law). You must go to the amphur where the child is residing according to tabien baan with the mother and the child and together all three, you request a bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership). Both mother and child must approve. There is no need for a lawyer, it took me less than half a day and cost wasn't even 100 bath if I remember right

Good Luck

MikeyIdea - thanks for your suggestion - I should probably get that certificate sometime, but it would mean a trip to Buriram for all 3 of us (mother and son just came back after NY holiday) and I need to get the extension next week.

Please clarify what you mean by "have your name twice on the birth certificate". It is there once in section 3 "Father", are you referring to section 4 "Teller of Birth" (in English translation), which is the mother ?

forgot to mention - son has my last name, not his mother's - does that make any difference ?

Edited January 6, 2010 by expatman

[Mario2008]

If you are not married to the mother you have to legelaise the child, sort of confirm yourself that you are the father. Without that you are not considered the faher as far as the law is concerned. In Thailand that is done by registering the birth yourself at the amphur. In that case your name appears twice on the birth ceritificate, under 3: father AND under 4: person registering the birth.

In your case it seems the mother registered the birth, so you did not legitimise the child and are not considered to be the father of the child as far as the law is concerend.

To legitimise your child you will have to go to court and ask to be recognised as the father. Another option is to marry the mother at the amphur, that will automatically legitimise the child.

More information on this topic here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gain-Parenta...-M-t235443.html

Can't tell you if you will be able to get a 60 day extension in this situation. You can however get a multiple non-O visa abroad.

[MikeyIdea]

Section1547. A child born of the parents who are not married to each other is legitimate by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or by the registration made on application by the father, or by a judgment of the Court.

"by the registration made on application by the father" - That's the person who registered the birth, the name in the left bottom corner, yes. The mother did it so you have no rights what-so-ever as a father yet. In fact, you are not even the father of your own child yet, in the eyes of the law.

I got my bai rapp long bott in Loei. I took a Friday off from work and drove up on Thursday evening, went to the amphor early Friday morning and had the certificate at lunch time. I advice to be there when they open. I can't remember which papers I needed but it should be perfectly OK to call them and ask. Nothing that isn't readily available. I think it was original tabien baan book, copies of the book, original birth certificate and copies of the same, your passport in original and copies of the same. That's all. I'd also bring copy of your visa page, mothers id card and mother and daughters passports and copies (if they have any) just to be on the safe side but I can't see that they are needed. Can't remember about photographs

There could still be time maybe, ask the wife to call amphor up there and ask

Edited January 6, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

Mario2008, the child is 8 years old, the father should be able to legalize at amphur, there is no need to go to court if mother and child agree

Edited January 6, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[expatman]

Can't tell you if you will be able to get a 60 day extension in this situation. You can however get a multiple non-O visa abroad.

Can you tell me which embassy/consulate in the region will do this ?

Please don't say it has to be in my home country (Canada) !

[Mario2008]

Mario2008, the child is 8 years old, the father should be able to legalize at amphur, there is no need to go to court if mother and child agree

Correct, I missed the part where he stated the child was 8. So shouldn't be any problem.

[MikeyIdea]

Kuala Lumpur will do fine, no need to go back to Canada.

You need to legalize your child anyway, going abroad to get a visa sounds like an expensive and cumbersome path to go. Still suggest your wife to call amphur where child is registered tomorrow morning (stating the age of the child and that it is the wish of the mother and the child and the father, that the father should get bai rapp long bott) and you can most likely have the legalization ready by Friday, if you can get a day off from work

Edited January 6, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Mario2008]

Yes, try to legalise the child first. Not sure how long it would take, but definatly worth a shot and the fact that the mother already named you as the father and the child has your name should make it easy in convincing the registar at the amphur.

If you run out of time to legalise the child, still try to get a 60 day exention. As I said, I don't know if they will do it. So they might very well do it. You don't have to wait till the very last day to get the 60 day extension and advice you to do it early.

[expatman]

Mario and Mikey,

Thanks for your helpful suggestions. I will definitely get that certificate as soon as possible, but hopefully it will not be immediately necessary as I am just trying to explore all my options.

Currently I am working with extension of stay based on employment, but the work permit and extension expire January 17 (a Sunday ! ??). My immediate boss keeps complaining "I have no money to pay you" as the maintenance contract for the government project I have been working on has not been renewed for the new budget year starting Oct 1, although I have kept working on the project (the problem comes from a higher-up official, not the actual client). A few days ago she asked me to talk to the company president (who makes all the decisions regarding money) "about the situation" so I started thinking "here it comes...". Actually there are several employees in this position - you know the Thai method of problem-solving (ignore problem and hope it goes away) - but I am the only farang and definitely the highest paid, so getting rid of me would save some them a lot of money. Of course the big boss did not say anything definite and kept alluding to what I could do "to help". I pointed out that the company is liable for 6 months severance pay according to my contract and Thai labour law. I know they don't want to come up with a big lump sum payment, but just in case they try something tricky (the HR manager is a real jerk but happens to be the boss's wife) like screwing up the work permit / extension of stay and using that as an excuse I want to be prepared so I can extend my stay long enough to take my case to the Labour Court.

So again, thanks for your help - hopefully WP will be renewed and extension of stay granted for another year - but if worse comes to worst it looks like I can hop over to Vientiane and get a non-immigrant "O" using my son's birth certificate and then sort out the situation. I suppose I could also get a tourist visa (double entry free still until March ?), but that would complicate things if company still wanted to go ahead with the work permit renewal.

[Khun Ngo]

Hi,

I have been to immigration in Chaeng Wattana about two weeks ago.

I have a child, but am not married yet.

May name is on the birth cert.

I got a 60 day extension on my non O.

I had to bring

the birth cert as well as copies

the girlfriend (mother of child)

Her ID or passport as well as copies

My PP and copies

Application form

PP photograf

Housing registration of partner (blue book) as well as copies.

Your partner needs to come along in order to sign some papers.

It took about on hour or a bit more. They close for lunch between 12 and 13 h

[expatman]

Thanks for the good news - this is what I was hoping to hear !!!

Did they require your son/daughter to attend as well ?

Are your child and the mother registered as living in Bangkok ? - (Mine live with me in Bangkok, but are officially registered as living in Buriram, not sure if this would cause a problem ???)

[Khun Ngo]

Hi,

my child is registered in Bkk, but the mother is registered in the south.

This is not a problem, but you need to get the "blue book", the housing

registration from Buriram.

We got it send by registered mail, and mail it back once we don't need it

anymore.

No, the kid didn't need to be there.

You need to bring 1900,- Baht, but I guess you knew this.

[torrenova]

Note that some immigration offices, such as Pattaya, want to see Bt500,000 in the bank, irrespective of the fact that the law says Bt400,000. Stupid is as stupid does.

Korat were really on the ball and could communicate in English and over the telephone, exactly what they required.

You may find that some places do not care whether the father is named on the birth certificate as the one registering the birth or not. Others may require legitimisation as Mario has mentioned. They all want to see the mother and child and I guess they make up a judgement based upon what they see in some cases and as we already know, they are a law unto themselves who seemingly, need not actually refer back to the law of the land in administering their version of the law !

[expatman]

Hi,

my child is registered in Bkk, but the mother is registered in the south.

This is not a problem, but you need to get the "blue book", the housing

registration from Buriram.

We got it send by registered mail, and mail it back once we don't need it

anymore.

No, the kid didn't need to be there.

You need to bring 1900,- Baht, but I guess you knew this.

Thanks for the reply

One further question - who is on the birth certificate as "Teller of Birth" ? - is it the mother or you ?

[Khun Ngo]

Nether of us, it was done by hospital staff. I applied for only a 60 days extension, so this did not matter.

[elektrified]

If you are not married to the mother you have to legelaise the child, sort of confirm yourself that you are the father. Without that you are not considered the faher as far as the law is concerned. In Thailand that is done by registering the birth yourself at the amphur. In that case your name appears twice on the birth ceritificate, under 3: father AND under 4: person registering the birth.

In your case it seems the mother registered the birth, so you did not legitimise the child and are not considered to be the father of the child as far as the law is concerend.

To legitimise your child you will have to go to court and ask to be recognised as the father. Another option is to marry the mother at the amphur, that will automatically legitimise the child.

More information on this topic here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gain-Parenta...-M-t235443.html

Can't tell you if you will be able to get a 60 day extension in this situation. You can however get a multiple non-O visa abroad.

Mario is there a Stipulation form that can be obtained/downloaded somewhere and filed with the Court? I am in the unfortunate situation where the mother and I of our child went to the office in Chiang Mai (not the Amphur - another office) to register our child's birth. The clerk just handed the birth certificate to my g/f and asked her to sign it. I had no idea of this silly requirement which pisses me off as I was standing right there! Of course they said nothing and I was shocked a couple of weeks later when I read this requirement on a TV forum. I don't have the money to hire a lawyer and there is no dispute. Or in the alternative, can we get an amended birth certificate?

Thanks for your help.

[punisher]

Sorry I can't give advice based on recent experience but I hope that my little advice can come in handy anyway

I assume: You never married the mother and you don't have your name twice on the birth certificate. You do not have parental power.

The child is 8 years old so it is EASY to fix (court decision is not needed according to Thai law). You must go to the amphur where the child is residing according to tabien baan with the mother and the child and together all three, you request a bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership). Both mother and child must approve. There is no need for a lawyer, it took me less than half a day and cost wasn't even 100 bath if I remember right

Good Luck

Since the kid is only 8yrs old,the Amphur will probably send him to the family court,in my case daughter was 4yrs old at that time,maybe 8yrs old is ok for them,it took almost 1 yr to finish all documents,at that time I paid 12000baht to the lawyer,and he cleared all,another 3000 for an interpreter at the family court

[Mario2008]

The law states that both mother and child must agree for legitimization at the amphur, but doesn't say how old the child must be. In practice the age of 7 year is generally accepted as old enough. This has also been confirmed by forum sponsor Isaan Lawyers/ Thailawonline.

When the child is 8, there is no need to go to court.

[expatman]

Update : yesterday received 60-day extension at Chaeng Wattana based on visiting my Thai son.

This is what they wanted :

copy of birth certificate (my name as father, mother as "Teller of birth")

copy of mother's ID card (note : we are not officially married)

copy of house registration (pages for son and mother)

copy of my passport

That's all, no request for bank info or other docs. Was on Non-immigrant "B" visa which was cancelled when job finished.

[Mario2008]

For the 60 day extension there is no need to show income or money in the bank. It is kind of an emergency extension, without financial requirements and you will not get them back to back.

Good to see you didn't have any problems getting the extension.

[richm7]

This subject cropped up in another thread and I did mention then that neither me NOR my daughter's mother is mentioned on her birth certificate - the informant is somebody (I guess) from Bumrungrad. This has never caused me a problem either before or since her mother & I married (Thai Child visa, Thai passport, British Birth Certificate, British Passport, US Visa etc.) so it is obviously not necessarily a problem if your John Hancock is not on that little piece of paper. I bow to Mario and others who are obviously deeply into this but I wonder if one of you knowledgeable guys could comment on what you see as different about my situation? Based upon that experience all is not entirely as you guys suggest.

[Superskunk]

Just tried to get an extension of stay based on a thai child.

First went to the Immigration at Sathorn... ok, they told me I have to go to Chaweng Wattana. Maybe because of the Redshirts.

At Chaweng Wattana Soi 7 I showed them the birth certificate of my daughter, copy of GF ID Card, Ta bien baan from daughter and GF, my Passport.

Officer: "Where is your wife?"

Me: "At home."

Officer: "She has to come too."

Me: "That is very difficult because we dont have anybody to take care my daughter and by the way we are not married."

Officer: "Why are you not married?"

Me: "?????????"

Officer: "Come again tomorrow with your wife."

I dont know why it is not enough for them to see the birth certificate. I registered the birth by myself at the Amphoe, so it shouldnt be a problem.

Spent a whole day for nothing.... and some money for the toll way.

I really really understand if people stay here without a visa.

[Mario2008]

Be ready for another disappointment tomorrow. They will require you to be the legal father of the child, which currently you are probably not. To proof this, you would need the khor ror 14 document from the Amphur.

I would first visit the amphur, together with your wife and child and asked to be recognized as the legal father of the child. In all likelihood they will tell you to petition the court to become the legal father, but there is a small chance that they will accept your request. The official rule is that the mother and child will have to give consent for this, but the law doesn't give an age for the child. So it depends on the amphur. Most amphurs will require the child to be 7 years.

[silentnine]

most interesting reading. i've got quite a few years to go for the retirement visa. so stuck with visa runs and all that sh+t

i went to the government office at the time of reporting the birth with my g/f's farther. even though i was there and my name went on the paperwork i was not given an option to sing as of course no one spoke any English(up county) . so her farther signed it

since then we got my son a UK birth certificate which says I'm the farther . and also a UK passport.

but from reading all this despite UK law recognising my son as a UK citizen by birth , then thai's do not reciprocate and even recognize i'm the farther .. most amazing.

although i'm sure should we ever separate they would recognise the fact quick enough if anyone wanted money from me

one option i considered to get round it was get my son a 'ed' visa in his UK passport despite him being Thai and not needing it .. then having a go at applying for the visa of a parent supporting the education cost etc..

[lopburi3]

If everyone is in agreement the legal process should not be that involved - many people have done it. And once done it is taken care of.