Attorney-general Decides Against Charging Surayud

[Steve2UK]

Attorney-general decides against charging Surayud

The attorney-general decided Friday against charging former prime minister and Privy Councillor Surayud Chulanont for encroaching upon the forested land in Nakhon Ratchasima.

Thanaphit Moolpruek, the spokesman of the Office of the Attorney-General, said the charge against Surayud was dropped because he did not have intention to encroached on the land.

But the chief public prosecutor in Nakhon Rachasima has informed the provincial forestry office to take back the land in line with the Cabinet resolution issued in 1975. The resolution allows landless villagers to use the land for farming without the rights to sell it to other people.

Surayud has bought the land at the Khao Yai Thieng Mountain from villagers and built a vacation house there.

-- The Nation 2010-01-08

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...harging-Surayud

[edwinchester]

So he didn't intend to encroach on the land, it was an accident. That's ok then.

Whatever happened to 'ignorance of the law is no defence'?

[londonthai]

as I believe on coming Monday there would be mass prostests on the mentioned land, expected 10k villagers

Edited January 9, 2010 by londonthai

[slapout]

The precedent for the decision could be based on past occurrences. I seem to remember a former PM doing the same thing, only in the north. Talk was that the house which had been built on the land was taken over by the military, as the former PM was a general maybe he still has visitation rights. As pleading ignorance seems to be a successful defense of this and similar offenses, my assessment of qualifications for politicians seems reinforced.

[brahmburgers]

So, according to the AG office's logic, if I get filthy drunk and unwittingly drive my speeding truck in to a bus filled with schoolkids, it's ok, because "I did not intend to break the law."

[way2muchcoffee]

So, according to the AG office's logic, if I get filthy drunk and unwittingly drive my speeding truck in to a bus filled with schoolkids, it's ok, because "I did not intend to break the law."

I reckon it's more like you go to a pawn shop, ebay, or craigslist and pick up an ipod or gold necklace. Later it's found to be stolen. It it returned to the owner and no charges are preferred against the end buyer unless knowledge that the item was stolen can be proven.

[Valentine]

Seems like a bit of buck passing going on. Although he wont be charged the forestry dept has been ordered to take back the land & I think another report stated the land was now under the control of another dept.

There are many politicians & ex PMs who claim "honest mistake" but by virtue of being in that position they should know the law & "honest mistake" should never be an excuse. Howver the mindest amongst the high & mighty is they are above the law & until more of them are hurt financially &/or jailed "honest mistakes" will continue.

[londonthai]

an ipod or gold necklace.

an ipod or gold necklace is not registered in the land office and forestry office, it's worth more than a few satangs.

before buying any land the ownership and any deeds are checked, so general's lawers knew exactly the situation before bying the land

[Reasonableman]

Full odf admiration for such "courageous" comments. May you live long and happily in LOS!

an ipod or gold necklace.

an ipod or gold necklace is not registered in the land office and forestry office, it's worth more than a few satangs.

before buying any land the ownership and any deeds are checked, so general's lawers knew exactly the situation before bying the land

[Samuian]

So he didn't intend to encroach on the land, it was an accident. That's ok then.

Whatever happened to 'ignorance of the law is no defence'?

Well, well.... how about being cheated?

...

A 1975 Cabinet resolution reserved the land on Khao Yai Thiang for locals who had none of their own on which to live or farm. The land can be transferred to legal heirs but cannot be sold.

The land occupied by Surayud was originally allocated to Bao Sinnok (all 500 Rai to one local?), a resident of Nakhon Ratchasima's Pak Chong district, in accordance with the 1975 Cabinet resolution. However, Bao sold it to Noppadon Pitakwanit in 1995. The land was later handed to Surarith Chatrapitak, a military officer.

Surayud's wife, Jitrawadi, has occupied it since 2002.

Source:

20 years this land had been in private possession, allegedly for "farming" - then SOLD and 7 years later "handed" to a military officer, 27 years later Surayuds wife got hold of this land.... they, the Surayuds certainly did NOT encroach any land illegally, the right to own it maybe in question, but why now?

Why not at the time of the first sale, this must have been illegal already?

Who was this first owner, Bao Sinnok, a Puu Yai, Kemnan, why so much land?

Why not when the land was "handed" over to Surarith Chatrapitak, some military officer, no rank mentioned...?

Could it be that it has been dug up by the red shirts, solely to derail the government and take revenge on Surayud?

Why their claim to step down as the privy council - who accused the privy council to be behind the coup - who was outed by the coup?

The "Amulet Affair", the "Tusker" affair...

Does "Alpine Golf Course" ring a bell?

do the lights get any brighter, regarding these "affairs"?

How about a serious crackdown on those who try to divide the nation, stirring up trouble whenever, where ever possible, trying to defame a many people, just for the sake of getting a criminal fugitive, who feels that he has been unjustly treated, pardoned and back in the saddle to continue the looting of the country for his very own and his cronies sake?

Ask yourself what is the REAL motive behind the redshirts movement, is there any genuine move which is entirely aimed for the welfare of this countries citizens and the country in general?

Edited January 9, 2010 by Samuian

[Reasonableman]

Put succinctly, it's called "politics"...so, what's the mystery?

20 years this land had been in private possession, then SOLD and 7 years later "handed" to a military officer, 27 years later Surayuds wife got hold of this land.... they, the Surayuds certainly did NOT encroach any land illegally, the right to own it maybe in question, but why now?

[Gary A]

Most politicians hold large amounts of land and you can bet that most were sweetheart deals approved by corrupt land offices. This is just another selectively enforced law that is occasionally used to keep the rest of the politicians in line. Typical of the good ole boys network. It could be referred to as blackmail.

The entire government functions on a you don't tell on me and I won't tell on you.

[Hardback]

Surayud has guns, he can do what he wants.

[jayboy]

Could it be that it has been dug up by the red shirts, solely to derail the government and take revenge on Surayud?

Why their claim to step down as the privy council - who accused the privy council to be behind the coup - who was outed by the coup?

How about a serious crackdown on those who try to divide the nation, stirring up trouble whenever, where ever possible, trying to defame a many people, just for the sake of getting a criminal fugitive, who feels that he has been unjustly treated, pardoned and back in the saddle to continue the looting of the country for his very own and his cronies sake?

Ask yourself what is the REAL motive behind the redshirts movement, is there any genuine move which is entirely aimed for the welfare of this countries citizens and the country in general?

So if I understand you correctly it is all Thaksin's fault or and that of his supporters for dragging this affair into the public eye.Surayud as a very high status general has every right to break the law if he wants to construct a massive villa on public land.He is also fully credible in saying that he had no idea he was breaking the law anyway, and the OAG was quite right to accept this excuse.It is also outrageous that the hoi-polloi should question the actions of a well connected ex soldier catapulted into power by a military coup.Instead the emphasis should be on cracking down hard on the reds and any other Thai that questions the right of the elite to do exactly what they like.

Does that more or less sum up your position?

[Thai at Heart]

In this situation "Ignorance is bliss".

Isn't it nice to know that the esteemed unelected PM was so ignorant of the law. But don't they realise how stupid it sounds to say he isn't guilty because he "didn't intend to break the law". I would love to see Thaksin's bunch try that defence.....................

[Chang_paarp]

This investigation started when Surayud was PM about 3 years ago. The stuff began to fly following a report in the press about the hard done by locals.

He took a number of journalists to the house after it was reported as being a mansion, the photos revealed a very modest abode, that respected the local environment. He wanted to retire there, and offered to return the property to the government after his death as his kids did not want it, being too remote and wild for them.

[animatic]

So, according to the AG office's logic, if I get filthy drunk and unwittingly drive my speeding truck in to a bus filled with schoolkids, it's ok, because "I did not intend to break the law."

I reckon it's more like you go to a pawn shop, ebay, or craigslist and pick up an ipod or gold necklace. Later it's found to be stolen. It it returned to the owner and no charges are preferred against the end buyer unless knowledge that the item was stolen can be proven.

This would seem part of the explanation.

But also the land office and Chanote or likely much lower equivalent is an issue.

Provincial Land offices are not above putting out dodgy paper.

In this far out lying an area a full chanote is not likely,

so it is plausible that the land office wanted to be seen in good favor

with a man of Surayud's stature and power and just gave him what

he was looking for in the hopes that later he remembers them.

Plus the local who was in 'possesion' of the land, would be making good money,

and gaining a valuble neighbor to be freinds with.

And number of mutual 'scratch your back' scenarios apply, without Surayud's lawyers

being more than mildly suspicious. Not that land transactions are actually done with lawyers.

All plausible, and so very Thai.

Edited January 9, 2010 by animatic

[jayboy]

In this situation "Ignorance is bliss".

Isn't it nice to know that the esteemed unelected PM was so ignorant of the law. But don't they realise how stupid it sounds to say he isn't guilty because he "didn't intend to break the law". I would love to see Thaksin's bunch try that defence.....................

To be fair Thaksin's lawyers applied exactly the same argument in the 2001 assets case and got the court acquittal he was looking for.

[TAWP]

My extended family got 'hit' a few years back with land being sold to them that might or might not legally be allowed to be sold, as it was the same kind of protected land as mentioned above. I.e. allowed to be taken by farmers and used but not sold or transferred outside the family. Supposedly there was some papers handed over when the deal was done but the transfer wasn't registered at some office and the papers might have been not of the highest level of documents according to the law. Haven't bothered to follow the issue but it is just some anecdotal reference that these things happen to normal people too... doesn't have to be criminal intent.

[Hardback]

He took a number of journalists to the house after it was reported as being a mansion, the photos revealed a very modest abode, that respected the local environment. He wanted to retire there, and offered to return the property to the government after his death as his kids did not want it, being too remote and wild for them.

Blatant PR whitewashing. It's his ownership of the land that is in question, not what he built on it.

And how the hel_l does a building pay respect to a local environment that is wild and remote? To my mind wild and remote means very far away from roads, buildings and for that matter, plumbing.

nonsense..the journalists all fawned along and enjoyed their day in the country..no doubt choppered in at the Nation's expense.

[chuang]

kangaroon Court with Kangaroon ruling...

[animatic]

So he didn't intend to encroach on the land, it was an accident. That's ok then.

Whatever happened to 'ignorance of the law is no defence'?

Well, well.... how about being cheated?

...

A 1975 Cabinet resolution reserved the land on Khao Yai Thiang for locals who had none of their own on which to live or farm. The land can be transferred to legal heirs but cannot be sold.

The land occupied by Surayud was originally allocated to Bao Sinnok (all 500 Rai to one local?), a resident of Nakhon Ratchasima's Pak Chong district, in accordance with the 1975 Cabinet resolution. However, Bao sold it to Noppadon Pitakwanit in 1995. The land was later handed to Surarith Chatrapitak, a military officer.

Surayud's wife, Jitrawadi, has occupied it since 2002.

Source:

20 years this land had been in private possession, allegedly for "farming" - then SOLD and 7 years later "handed" to a military officer, 27 years later Surayuds wife got hold of this land.... they, the Surayuds certainly did NOT encroach any land illegally, the right to own it maybe in question, but why now?

Why not at the time of the first sale, this must have been illegal already?

Who was this first owner, Bao Sinnok, a Puu Yai, Kemnan, why so much land?

Why not when the land was "handed" over to Surarith Chatrapitak, some military officer, no rank mentioned...?

Could it be that it has been dug up by the red shirts, solely to derail the government and take revenge on Surayud?

Why their claim to step down as the privy council - who accused the privy council to be behind the coup - who was outed by the coup?

The "Amulet Affair", the "Tusker" affair...

Does "Alpine Golf Course" ring a bell?

do the lights get any brighter, regarding these "affairs"?

How about a serious crackdown on those who try to divide the nation, stirring up trouble whenever, where ever possible, trying to defame a many people, just for the sake of getting a criminal fugitive, who feels that he has been unjustly treated, pardoned and back in the saddle to continue the looting of the country for his very own and his cronies sake?

Ask yourself what is the REAL motive behind the redshirts movement, is there any genuine move which is entirely aimed for the welfare of this countries citizens and the country in general?

Would I say this is all Thaksin's fault no.

Would I say this is because Thaksin wants revenge and told his people,

to find any dirt they can on his enemies, most certainly.

Will this substantially hurt Surayud, doubtfully.

He just will finds another place to chill out on long weekends

As pointed out, this land has been illegally passed around for a generation at least.

Clearly SOP in that area, and it only became an issue when Thasksin's minions

made an all out concerted effort to find dirt on an enemy.

See! I am not so bad, my enemies are doing it too.

Tell that to Shipping Moo...

This 'dirt' pertaining, not to a mansion, but to a small vacation house,

is pretty much a 'bringing to the press with trumpets' of a typical up country land deal.

The idea of a honest land conveyance title functionary here is non existent,

and so finding dodgey land deals is an easy trick for those motivated to do so.

We know which side wanted to harm Suayud.

[jayboy]

the photos revealed a very modest abode, that respected the local environment. He wanted to retire there, and offered to return the property to the government after his death as his kids did not want it, being too remote and wild for them.

Obviously it was a very modest abode, a shack probably, as Surayud has been a serving soldier all his life with the very small salary that entails in Thailand.In fact he should be commended for scrimping and saving to obtain a retirement villa at all.What is more he graciously plans to give it to the government when he transfers to the hereafter.My earlier misgivings were misplaced.In fact give that man a coconut.

[khunjamespittman]

So he didn't intend to encroach on the land, it was an accident. That's ok then.

Whatever happened to 'ignorance of the law is no defence'?

Well, well.... how about being cheated?

...

A 1975 Cabinet resolution reserved the land on Khao Yai Thiang for locals who had none of their own on which to live or farm. The land can be transferred to legal heirs but cannot be sold.

The land occupied by Surayud was originally allocated to Bao Sinnok (all 500 Rai to one local?), a resident of Nakhon Ratchasima's Pak Chong district, in accordance with the 1975 Cabinet resolution. However, Bao sold it to Noppadon Pitakwanit in 1995. The land was later handed to Surarith Chatrapitak, a military officer.

Surayud's wife, Jitrawadi, has occupied it since 2002.

Source:

20 years this land had been in private possession, allegedly for "farming" - then SOLD and 7 years later "handed" to a military officer, 27 years later Surayuds wife got hold of this land.... they, the Surayuds certainly did NOT encroach any land illegally, the right to own it maybe in question, but why now?

Why not at the time of the first sale, this must have been illegal already?

Who was this first owner, Bao Sinnok, a Puu Yai, Kemnan, why so much land?

Why not when the land was "handed" over to Surarith Chatrapitak, some military officer, no rank mentioned...?

Could it be that it has been dug up by the red shirts, solely to derail the government and take revenge on Surayud?

Why their claim to step down as the privy council - who accused the privy council to be behind the coup - who was outed by the coup?

The "Amulet Affair", the "Tusker" affair...

Does "Alpine Golf Course" ring a bell?

do the lights get any brighter, regarding these "affairs"?

How about a serious crackdown on those who try to divide the nation, stirring up trouble whenever, where ever possible, trying to defame a many people, just for the sake of getting a criminal fugitive, who feels that he has been unjustly treated, pardoned and back in the saddle to continue the looting of the country for his very own and his cronies sake?

Ask yourself what is the REAL motive behind the redshirts movement, is there any genuine move which is entirely aimed for the welfare of this countries citizens and the country in general?

This is just another silly, foolish Red shirt attack.

ANyone with half a brain would understand that the laws does not state anything about who discovers a law has been broken.

It make not difference to the law whether a red shirt, a possum, a squirrel, a rabbit or a Kwai discovers that a law has been broken. The law makes no determination in motive is an illegal act was discover lawfully. The law is the law and should be administered according the constitutional mandates on the appropriate governmental bodies.

If you have a beef with the red shirts. Please take it to them. Don't waste our time by tying them to every second the clock ticks.

Regards.

I'm tired of all this nonsense. Grow up little boy.

[orangezeke]

This investigation started when Surayud was PM about 3 years ago. The stuff began to fly following a report in the press about the hard done by locals.

He took a number of journalists to the house after it was reported as being a mansion, the photos revealed a very modest abode, that respected the local environment. He wanted to retire there, and offered to return the property to the government after his death as his kids did not want it, being too remote and wild for them.

I think the kids have since changed their mind. The Bangkok Post is reporting that the land registered owner has now changed to Chul Chulanont, Gen Surayud's son.

Let's imagine for a moment that it is true, he didn't realise what he was doing was illegal. In my mind, that is much more worrying - a former PM, General and Privy Councilor who doesn't take a moment to make these simple checks. What else doesn't he know ? What else waits in his closet ?

[h90]

Seems like a bit of buck passing going on. Although he wont be charged the forestry dept has been ordered to take back the land & I think another report stated the land was now under the control of another dept.

There are many politicians & ex PMs who claim "honest mistake" but by virtue of being in that position they should know the law & "honest mistake" should never be an excuse. Howver the mindest amongst the high & mighty is they are above the law & until more of them are hurt financially &/or jailed "honest mistakes" will continue.

An honest mistake might be an excuse, but I doubt that Surayud did not know anything about laws and national parks.

It isn't farmer Somchai who dig a hole 2 meters inside the national park border because he did not know where the border is....

Lets see if they really take the land back and charge him for removing the buildings.

[h90]

Most politicians hold large amounts of land and you can bet that most were sweetheart deals approved by corrupt land offices. This is just another selectively enforced law that is occasionally used to keep the rest of the politicians in line. Typical of the good ole boys network. It could be referred to as blackmail.

The entire government functions on a you don't tell on me and I won't tell on you.

that is the reason why Abhisit wants his tax on land. But too many people have too good arguments against it.

[hammered]

I always thought ignorance of the law was no defence

[animatic]

I always thought ignorance of the law was no defence

A rather Western point of view actually.

TIT.

As pointed out by the Pawn shop anecdote,

the final buyer, in ignorance of stolen property,

may lose the property, but not be charged with a crime.

And then in all likelihood can sue those in between for recompensation.

If those in the middle of the deal have anything to sue for.

[brahmburgers]

an ipod or gold necklace.

an ipod or gold necklace is not registered in the land office and forestry office, it's worth more than a few satangs.

before buying any land the ownership and any deeds are checked, so general's lawers knew exactly the situation before bying the land

Anyone, whether they be privileged elite, hill triber, farang right off the plane, or a Thai general knows that when they're considering taking over a piece of property, they need to take stock of the legality of it - and they do that. I secured property in Thailand which was non-title. A few months later I later secured another parcel nearby which was non-title and possibly forestry land. I took a chance, and secured both pieces, knowing that some day there might be problems. It's been 11 years, and there haven't been problems, so my wager is paying off well thus far.

But if things go pear shaped in the future, can I just say, "I didn't intend to do anything illegal" or "I didn't know these were questionable properties" ....and be allowed to keep the properties? Surayud did it (and set precedent), so why not me and anyone else who's laid claim to questionable properties - and BTW, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions in Thailand who have done so. Indeed, in just my one little village, everyone of the hundreds of homes here are built on non-titled properties.

One thing that needs to happen is for regional Land Office people to get off their lard butts and start surveying and granting titles for those who are entitled to such. Instead they do what most bureaucrats do: as little as possible, while still ensuring their monthly paycheck.

Some of the local Land Dept people (including the head man) in my region told me directly "Thaksin wanted more granting of title deeds to untitled land, but now that Thaksin is no longer in power, we don't know what to do." In other words, they're waiting direction from Bangkok, because no Thai bureaucrat outside of Bangkok can think for themselves. And the so-called leaders in Bkk are too busy playing golf, looking after their mia noi, and worrying about political maneuvering - than to do anything as bland as governing.