Over Usage Of The Farang Word.

[mccw]

I think the question should be why write "farang" when I'm pretty sure all Thai's I have spoken to pronounce it "falang".

That's the hick pronunciation. The proper pronunciation is an R sound.

JT's right, the Thai word farang has an R in it not an L.

The previous posters are correct. In looking at the spelling of the thai word; ฝรั่ง one can quite quickly see (if you can even read thai ) there is no 'L' sound in it, and it has the thai character which is represented as an 'R' sound.

I concur pronouncing it with an 'L' would be the "hick pronunciation". I'd let a thai slide on this pronunciation as it's their frickin' language and I'm certainly not the pronunciation police. IMHO, the mispronunciation is made all that much more pathetic if it is spoken by a foreigner.

While there are no shortage of inventive ways to spell thai words in engrish; spelling it as 'falang' instead of 'farang' is clearly wrong. Hearing a thai national or a foreigner speak it this way also shows the relative education level of the people you may associate with here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

No matter how you spell it in engrish; ฝรั่ง is a word I NEVER EVER utter and I'm going on my 5th year here. There are plenty of other perfectly good words which denote a foreigner. Three that immediately spring to mind are;

คนต่างชาติ khohn-dtaang-chaat

ชาวต่างชาติ chaao-dtaang-chaat

คนต่างด้าว khohn-dtaang-daao

ALL of the above words denote a person OTHER than a thai national i.e.: a foreigner. The middle example is actually on almost all the Thai Immigration forms. Given the thais rampant penchant for racism even against their own, I feel it's always better to be err on the side of caution when referring to myself or other foreigners here.

To the foreigners who say it carries no connotation or is akin to any other word in the thai language, all I can say is this. You are nothing more than mindless, sheep-like, "wanna-b-thai" foreign sock puppets hel_l-bent on embracing your 'inner-thai-ness' or rushing head long into becoming one with the mythical thing known as 'thai culture'.

If you could speak, read and/or understand even rudimentary spoken thai you would quite quickly discern just how much of a negative connotation this word can carry when spoken by thais. Enough negativity that I can't imagine why ANY foreigner would ever use it in reference to either themself or another foreign person. Honestly, the drive some foreigners have to "fit in" with these ever smiling, yet diminutive people, truly wobbles my mind.

My advice to you, if you're a foreigner; don't ever say it and don't ever acknowledge it if someone addresses you that way. Especially, if that someone is another foreigner.

The jury may still be out on the original etymology of the word, but what ever it is; in today's day and age it certainly has morphed from what it was originally into a word with a much more racist, demeaning and denigrating meaning in some spoken contexts.

Note 2 MODZ: sorry for using the thai language on a forum other than the language one, but, the spelling of thai words in engrish is spotty at best (I used the thai spelling with the phonemic transcription as examples only for clarification, and will try to refrain from doing it again. I also consider myself duly chastised )

What are you doing here? you seem to have a very dim point of view on so many of the population, thai and their guests. Thai culture might not easily be defined but it definately exists, not "mythical" as you put it.

Farang, falang, what ever, get over it; people speak with regional accents in every counrty and it is normal for people who live for a length of time in an area to pick up thier pronounciations, not pathetic at all, it enables better communication. I change the way i pronounce the thai language depending on where i am, for example, many people won't imediately understand if i speak like i do in chiang mai to some one in the south, especially coming from a falang

The word farang is not rude unless accompanied by some unpleasentness, such as dirty looks or bad speak, but mostly it is just a way to pinpoint someone for attention, like "there's a farang riding a bike through the village i wonder what he's doing here" or "farang in the shop come and pay attention" but shortenned to just the one word with out having to spout a long winded sentance, even if its so they can pinpoint you for gossip as it were why must it be bad.

I think you must be very selfconsious and some what parranoid to think that every time you hear the word farang i has negative connotations.

[tigerfish]

In the NE of Thailand (and in Laos) the "r" sound is not commonly used in the language,if you are hearing 'falang' and not farang then you are quite likely hanging out with people from Isaan or Laos.

have you ever heard a non isaan/laos thai person try to say the word raining. it comes out laining

[nisakiman]

My wife uses the word "farang" (falang, actually, the way she says it) to describe any occidental, including me. It doesn't offend me, and I use it too, so I really see no reason to make an issue out of it. The use of "farang" in this forum is, I believe, quite justified given the subject matter being dealt with here.

[Jingthing]

I understand many Thais pronounce the word with a L sound. However, I don't think westerners should do that. I find hearing or reading a westerner speak or write the F word with an L to be rather like fingernails scraping a blackboard. Like I said before, I believe the farang word has become an adopted English word for English speakers in Thailand. And the correct spelling and pronunciation of this adopted word is the standard Thai pronunciation using an R like sound. While with most Thai words, the romanized spelling is non-standardized and variable, for adopted words like Farang, Soi, and Baht, they really have become standardized.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[tigerfish]

The way some people use the word Thai, you would think that it is a racist term as well. Oh wait!

I suppose that was flip, but in case it wasn't, Thai is a nationality. Nobody is offended if we are referred to by our nationality, unless the person already knows us and says Hey there Pommie, instead oh Hello Reginald.

try telling an englishmen, a scotsman, welshman or an irishman(n. ireland) that they are british.

to make matters even worse try telling a scotsman that hes english or any of the above are put in the same pigoen hole.

i get especially hacked off when filling out forms, when asked nationality. if i put i am english, i a invariable get pulled up and told to put british.

in conversations, example; someone may ask where are you from. the person answering the question may say, cardiff(wales). the response will go something like this, oh thats in england right or thats in britain(although politically correct, its not! its in wales.

first and foremost i am an englishmen and proud of it. ask any of the nationals of the countrys listed in this post and you will get the same responce. though some may not be as polite about it.

Edited January 13, 2010 by tigerfish

[Jingthing]

Well, you wouldn't be offended if they got your nationality right. Try calling a hiso Thai Lao and watch the fireworks. Once I asked a Lanna guy if he was a hill triber and he almost went postal. Oh heck, call me anything you like, but don't call me late for dinner ...

[dttk0009]

When I'm talking to someone Thai and I'm trying to describe a person who's a westerner I will use the word farang. I use the word jokingly with friends when talking about tourists doing silly things, like paying 5000 baht for a wooden penis at a switchblade shop. I'm never offended when I'm referred to as farang unless it's meant to insult, in which case I smile and brush it off. I don't really see it as derogatory.

[PattayaParent]

And don't get all vain and think you're the object of attention when you hear the word Farang, they may not be talking about you when they shout "Look Farang" but instead might be pointing out to their mates/family a particularly nice potato or guava, or some chewing gum that they've just spotted.

[richieudon]

as an aside why do african americans all call each other N*##gger?

It makes no sense to me other than maybe the desire to be a Thai and pretend they are not a Farang anymore.

The usage in Thailand I personally don't think it negative unless its qualified with a kee nok or something. It's somewhat like the use of Gringo in Brazil. Anything not Brazillian is Gringo.

It seems there are a lot of things called falang in Thailand

Falang = green fejiola guava (some say the original source of the phrase from Portugese traders 400 years ago)

Wat Falang = some buddhist temples in eastern thailand

Muay Falang = western style boxing

Ban Falang = some non Thai style moo bans

Falang Dum = dark colored foreigners from Africa for example

mon falang = potato

Feel free to correct me and or add more I am not aware of. I am sure there are many more I am missing.

Mia Falang...That's what my wife calls women who are married to westerners and who dress inappropriately for baan nok!

[SeanMoran]

And don't get all vain and think you're the object of attention when you hear the word Farang, they may not be talking about you when they shout "Look Farang" but instead might be pointing out to their mates/family a particularly nice potato or guava, or some chewing gum that they've just spotted.

Quite true that. Last night I switched on the tv to take a look at the late-night news and every few minutes, there's that word again...

How the dickens did the newsreader know I was watching ?

[canuckamuck]

The way some people use the word Thai, you would think that it is a racist term as well. Oh wait!

I suppose that was flip, but in case it wasn't, Thai is a nationality. Nobody is offended if we are referred to by our nationality, unless the person already knows us and says Hey there Pommie, instead oh Hello Reginald.

Of course it was flip, but there is truth in the fact that the term is not exactly representative of all the citizens of old Siam.

I know people who don't consider themselves Thai although they were born here and their ancestors were here before there was a Thailand. Tribal people have to grin and bear it when they call themselves Thai. A similar thing occurs down south.

As the other post mentioned, about the English being British, it doesn't go down as smooth as we would think. Labels are convenient but must be handled with care as they are offensive out of context.

In Canada you can call a man from Scotland a Scotsman, but you can't call a man from China a Chinaman.

[bkkjames]

The way some people use the word Thai, you would think that it is a racist term as well. Oh wait!

I suppose that was flip, but in case it wasn't, Thai is a nationality. Nobody is offended if we are referred to by our nationality, unless the person already knows us and says Hey there Pommie, instead oh Hello Reginald.

Of course it was flip, but there is truth in the fact that the term is not exactly representative of all the citizens of old Siam.

I know people who don't consider themselves Thai although they were born here and their ancestors were here before there was a Thailand. Tribal people have to grin and bear it when they call themselves Thai. A similar thing occurs down south.

As the other post mentioned, about the English being British, it doesn't go down as smooth as we would think. Labels are convenient but must be handled with care as they are offensive out of context.

In Canada you can call a man from Scotland a Scotsman, but you can't call a man from China a Chinaman.

I have never tried calling a Thai Man a Man.

[mauGR1]

as an aside why do african americans all call each other N*##gger?

It makes no sense to me other than maybe the desire to be a Thai and pretend they are not a Farang anymore.

The usage in Thailand I personally don't think it negative unless its qualified with a kee nok or something. It's somewhat like the use of Gringo in Brazil. Anything not Brazillian is Gringo.

It seems there are a lot of things called falang in Thailand

Falang = green fejiola guava (some say the original source of the phrase from Portugese traders 400 years ago)

Wat Falang = some buddhist temples in eastern thailand

Muay Falang = western style boxing

Ban Falang = some non Thai style moo bans

Falang Dum = dark colored foreigners from Africa for example

mon falang = potato

Feel free to correct me and or add more I am not aware of. I am sure there are many more I am missing.

Mia Falang...That's what my wife calls women who are married to westerners and who dress inappropriately for baan nok!

Noo mai farang= Asparagus

Personally i don't feel offended if someone call me farang,but i'm aware some farang does.

I know some people who have a higher than average self esteem,if you call them "human beings" they could feel hurt.

[Lovia]

Noo mai farang= Asparagus

Personally i don't feel offended if someone call me farang,but i'm aware some farang does.

I know some people who have a higher than average self esteem,if you call them "human beings" they could feel hurt.

Haha, Good one!

[JiveTalker]

Mostly overused by newcomers to Thailand tying that little bit too hard to fit in.

[Tod Daniels]

I will agree with the previous posters (who shall remain unnamed) that context is everything in ascertaining the true meaning and/or the subtle implications of this word.

I wouldn’t give it a second thought if I was referred to as a ‘farang’ up in Nakhon Nowhere by the thais living there. The relative number of foreigners they see is most likely very small.

However in a city of ANY size, especially one with a high foreign contingent, that term only shows the racist, myopic view point these people have of foreigners.

[What are you doing here? you seem to have a very dim point of view on so many of the population, thai and their guests. <SNIP> (cut out mindless chatter)

I am here by choice, not chance, yet I am neither endeared to, enamored by, nor enchanted with this pissant developing third world country nor its diminutive, yet ever smiling, indigenous people.

I might also add; generations of brain washing until you forget why you even do something does not in and of itself make it a cultural thing.

Here is an example even you might be able to follow ; Simply because my grandfather taught my father to wash his hands after he pissed, and my father taught it to me, and I taught it to my son; that fact alone does not make it part of our cultural identity,. It only makes it something we do without thinking about it. Almost like everything these people do, yet try to pawn off as "thai culture".

But I digress; in re-reading the title of this topic, I see it is about foreigners referring to other foreigners as well as themselves and with the word ‘farang’ (which in thai is actually spelled like this; ฝรั่ง).

Let me spell it out for the “wanna-b-thai” foreign sock puppet contingent. Using that word to refer to other foreigner is clearly a “fox-paw” (or “faux pas” for you retards) of giant magnitude and should not be tolerated by other foreigners EVER!!!

[bkkjames]

While I shudder to agree with Sir Tod of Condescend 'A' Lot based on principle alone, I must in this case.

99% of the time the word is uttered by locals in a demeaning way - usually to hide their ignorance or for being caught out so they can save face and joke about foreigners in 'secret'.

That being said, I have been guilty on occasion of referring to individuals within the local population as a Thai in a negative way so am I any better?

Yes.

[Loz]

Tod,

Love it!

Ain't no words!!!

[JiveTalker]

Let me spell it out for the "wanna-b-thai" foreign sock puppet contingent. Using that word to refer to other foreigner is clearly a "fox-paw" (or "faux pas" for you retards) of giant magnitude and should not be tolerated by other foreigners EVER!!!

Well said that man.

[jdinasia]

99% of the time the word is uttered by locals in a demeaning way - usually to hide their ignorance or for being caught out so they can save face and joke about foreigners in 'secret'.

I don't know where you are hanging out that you could make the claim that "99% of the time the word is uttered by locals in a demeaning way..." but it certainly is not in the same places that I spend my time and certainly not around the same class of Thai with whom I spend my time

Ignorance and bigotry abound in the world and it is not restricted to any race or nationality.

[mccw]

I will agree with the previous posters (who shall remain unnamed) that context is everything in ascertaining the true meaning and/or the subtle implications of this word.

I wouldn't give it a second thought if I was referred to as a 'farang' up in Nakhon Nowhere by the thais living there. The relative number of foreigners they see is most likely very small.

However in a city of ANY size, especially one with a high foreign contingent, that term only shows the racist, myopic view point these people have of foreigners.

[What are you doing here? you seem to have a very dim point of view on so many of the population, thai and their guests. <SNIP> (cut out mindless chatter)

I am here by choice, not chance, yet I am neither endeared to, enamored by, nor enchanted with this pissant developing third world country nor its diminutive, yet ever smiling, indigenous people.

I might also add; generations of brain washing until you forget why you even do something does not in and of itself make it a cultural thing.

Here is an example even you might be able to follow ; Simply because my grandfather taught my father to wash his hands after he pissed, and my father taught it to me, and I taught it to my son; that fact alone does not make it part of our cultural identity,. It only makes it something we do without thinking about it. Almost like everything these people do, yet try to pawn off as "thai culture".

But I digress; in re-reading the title of this topic, I see it is about foreigners referring to other foreigners as well as themselves and with the word 'farang' (which in thai is actually spelled like this; ฝรั่ง).

Let me spell it out for the "wanna-b-thai" foreign sock puppet contingent. Using that word to refer to other foreigner is clearly a "fox-paw" (or "faux pas" for you retards) of giant magnitude and should not be tolerated by other foreigners EVER!!!

Here is the definition of culture:-

cul⋅ture 

1.the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.

2.that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.

3.a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture.

4.development or improvement of the mind by education or training.

5.the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.

6.Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings Tell me this deosn't exist.

I think you need to learn a bit more about the english language rather than getting so hung up about the pronounciation of other peoples. Next time you get the chance try telling some one from essex they should be pronouncing their "t"s properly, if at first they just tell you to go away wright it down and stick it under thier nose pointing and explaining "look its spelt like this, with ts". You are ridiculas

I'm an Englishman living in Thailand. Been here 10+years on and off. My wife is Thai and we have 2 kids together. I can assure you that falang is just a word for a group of people and context is everthing. Maybe the reason your hearing falang in such a negative way every time you hear it is because your such an unpleasent person, even if they've never spoken to you, from your chat i can tell your one of those falang that's just got c#nt writen all over him.

Your from a first world country looking down on all these "3rd world" people, don't even recognise that they have a culture, think you know it all coz you've learnt a bit of thai. News flash tod (or do you prounce it "tAad", you must be american right? with a name like that) you don't know shit.

Its people like you that produce negative predujice in the first place.

Do us all a favour and go home, I'm sure you won't be missed.

Edited January 15, 2010 by mccw

[Jingthing]

News flash tod (or do you prounce it "tAad", you must be american right? with a name like that) you don't know shit.

Its people like you that produce negative predujice in the first place.

Do us all a favour and go home, I'm sure you won't be missed.

I don't know why you felt you needed to bring American bashing into this. If you are suggesting that all or most Americans in Thailand share the views you are commenting on, well, I seriously doubt it.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[mccw]

News flash tod (or do you prounce it "tAad", you must be american right? with a name like that) you don't know shit.

Its people like you that produce negative predujice in the first place.

Do us all a favour and go home, I'm sure you won't be missed.

I don't know why you felt you needed to bring American bashing into this. If you are suggesting that all or most Americans in Thailand share the views you are commenting on, well, I seriously doubt it.

Not bashing the Americans, just pointing out how people pronouce thing differrently to how they are spelt.

[Neeranam]

Let me spell it out for the “wanna-b-thai” foreign sock puppet contingent. Using that word to refer to other foreigner is clearly a “fox-paw” (or “faux pas” for you retards) of giant magnitude and should not be tolerated by other foreigners EVER!!!

Let me remind you of how you used to end every post of yours.

Good luck

ท้อด แดเนียลส์: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Tod Daniels; Krung Thep Mahanakhon

take care na,

tod-daniels

Krung Thep

:D :D

Let me spell it out for the “wanna-b-thai” foreign sock puppet contingent. Using that word to refer to other foreigner is clearly a “fox-paw” (or “faux pas” for you retards) of giant magnitude and should not be tolerated by other foreigners EVER!!!

What arrogance

Edited January 15, 2010 by Neeranam

[Briggsy]

It's the same as soi. I could say sidestreet. And I could say westerner (in fact, I sometimes do) but these words have context-specific meanings.

[Jingthing]

It's the same as soi. I could say sidestreet. And I could say westerner (in fact, I sometimes do) but these words have context-specific meanings.

You could, but I doubt you would!

[Tod Daniels]

Let me remind you of how you used to end every post of yours.<SNIP>

Hey, I resemble those remarks. ..

(I also ask; how did varying my signature without using the "f-word" even enter into this?). Certainly a person can sign their posts how they see fit. Please refer to my signature about how I say my version of reality MAY NOT be compatible with yours, deal with it… Or did you miss that??)

I will agree with the previous posters (who shall remain unnamed) that context is everything in ascertaining the true meaning and/or the subtle implications of this word

You can see from the opening line of my oh-so quoted post that I conceded and whole-heartedly agreed with the premise that it is CONTEXT alone which drives the meaning of this word.

Come on now boyz; lets try to at least stray back on topic every now and again okay?

No matter how you spell it or pronounce it (farang, falang, ferang, feleng, falong, or even ferengi.. whoops sorry.. that last one is an alien race of people from the US T/V program Star Trek), for me it is and will always be; "the F-word”. I just believe it shouldn’t be used by foreigners referring to other foreigners which is actually the topic of this thread.

You all feel free to do what you want, don’t let me piss on your parade.

What arrogance

FWIW: Arrogance has to be earned, tell me what you’ve done to earn yours?

[Neeranam]

No matter how you spell it or pronounce it (farang, falang, ferang, feleng, falong, or even ferengi.. whoops sorry.. that last one is an alien race of people from the US T/V program Star Trek), for me it is and will always be; "the F-word”. I just believe it shouldn’t be used by foreigners referring to other foreigners which is actually the topic of this thread.

Actually I agree with you on this, except ferengi - it's a beach on Penang.

Farang saying 'farang' is ridiculous.

[Tod Daniels]

While it may indeed be a beach in Penang; it is also someone who looks remarkably like Andrew Biggs (joking).

Perhaps we can use Ferengi as secret code when referring to other foreigners.

[SeanMoran]

While it may indeed be a beach in Penang; it is also someone who looks remarkably like Andrew Biggs (joking).

Perhaps we can use Ferengi as secret code when referring to other foreigners.

Don't you think then that some of those sensitive and easily muddled Star Trek enthusiasts might get deeply hurt and offended?