Christianity Or The Bar ?

[MrHammer]

Militant Atheism

Global Warming

Green Living

Ecology

Sociology

Anthropology

Feminism

Communism

Socialism

Different names for new age religion.

Moral relativism is nothing new. It's not something American social liberals invented. "The devils accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist'. 'Let he who has ears hear'! Not that I believe in these things. Modern day pagans dancing around naked in the forest. Go forth and have orgies!

Christianity has been warped and hijacked. Without Paul (Saul) Christianity wouldn't have the abstinence view on sex.

It's entirely possible to use religion as a guiding star for your life without being a believer. The flesh is weak. My fellow Cowboy patrons, you should know this. A little spirituality goes a long way.

[mauGR1]

Militant Atheism

Global Warming

Green Living

Ecology

Sociology

Anthropology

Feminism

Communism

Socialism

Different names for new age religion.

Moral relativism is nothing new. It's not something American social liberals invented. "The devils accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist'. 'Let he who has ears hear'! Not that I believe in these things. Modern day pagans dancing around naked in the forest. Go forth and have orgies!

Christianity has been warped and hijacked. Without Paul (Saul) Christianity wouldn't have the abstinence view on sex.

It's entirely possible to use religion as a guiding star for your life without being a believer. The flesh is weak. My fellow Cowboy patrons, you should know this. A little spirituality goes a long way.

Very nice post,i find the last paragraph enlightening.

Like the story of the famous Scientist who had a horseshoe hanging above his door.

The fellow scientist asked him:Do you believe in that BS???

The man said:No,but it works nonetheless.

[StreetCowboy]

Militant Atheism

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8>< SNIP ><8

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It's entirely possible to use religion as a guiding star for your life without being a believer. The flesh is weak. My fellow Cowboy patrons, you should know this. A little spirituality goes a long way.

Very nice post,i find the last paragraph enlightening.

Like the story of the famous Scientist who had a horseshoe hanging above his door.

The fellow scientist asked him:Do you believe in that BS???

The man said:No,but it works nonetheless.

Why take chances with eternal damnation? Its an awful lot to lose if it turns out the bible-bashers were right...

Anyway, looking forward to my next trip to Nana to save a poor soul for the night,,,

SC

[bonobo]

 

It's entirely possible to use religion as a guiding star for your life without being a believer. 

 A very valid truism.

[ballpoint]

Why take chances with eternal damnation? Its an awful lot to lose if it turns out the bible-bashers were right...

Anyway, looking forward to my next trip to Nana to save a poor soul for the night,,,

SC

So bash your bible as an insurance policy for the afterlife. But what if the Hindus are right? Or the Taoists? Or the Rastafarians? Even if the bible bashers are right, any supposedly all knowing god fooled into thinking you really worshipped it because of true belief, when you were just hedging your bets, probably isn't worth worshipping in the first place. And if it wasn't fooled, then it probably won't be too happy with you pretending to believe "just in case". There's probably a place in hel_l reserved for smart &lt;deleted&gt;.

[ballpoint]

It's entirely possible to use religion as a guiding star for your life without being a believer.

A very valid truism.

That's the sort of smug thinking that religious people have against atheists, equating a disbelief in a god with being a bad, or misguided, person. It's quite possible to live a good, decent and successful life without being guided by some superstitious belief. It's quite possible for a non religious group to do a lot of good in the world, for the sake of doing good rather than for any future reward once dead. Doctors without borders, the Red Cross and Red Crescent, Oxfam, UNICEF...

[samuibeachcomber]

Some religious groups such as the Salvation Army take care of those that the rest of us would not go near. Although they may ask some to engage in some rousing hymn singing, the service provided by the Sally Ann are provided in a non denominational manner and take into account secular sensibilities. Religion is not forced upon anyone. I have been in some of the shelters and it's not pretty. While I leave emotionally drained, I do believe the religious beliefs of the workers gives them the strength to wash a lice infested wino, to tend to the infected wounds of a junkie, to talk to a mentally unstable psychotic and to provide unconditional love for those that have none. It's all in the way it is done. If it wasn't for groups like the Salvation Army, the streets in many big western countries would be over run with some very scary creepy people. They do the dirty work of society.

yes the salvos do do a good job as do others,and they dont all try and convert.the giving and helping to people in need without strings attached(i.e. without preaching)is such a good thing.government should do more to support these organisations in my view.

[PeaceBlondie]

I was taught the Salvation Army was a Protestant denomination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation_Army_corps

Rastafarians: "Its adherents, who worship Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia, former Emperor of Ethiopia (1930-1936 and 1941-1974), as the Second Advent.." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement

Weird.

[samuibeachcomber]

I was taught the Salvation Army was a Protestant denomination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation_Army_corps

Rastafarians: "Its adherents, who worship Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia, former Emperor of Ethiopia (1930-1936 and 1941-1974), as the Second Advent.." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement

Weird.

maybe the salvos are but i dont think they are heavy on the preaching/converting though,and think its the last thing people need when they are down and out, and anyway the best way to show people your faith/beliefs is to live it,action speaks louder than words etc etc.

[OriginalPoster]

It's entirely possible to use religion as a guiding star for your life without being a believer.

A very valid truism.

That's the sort of smug thinking that religious people have against atheists, equating a disbelief in a god with being a bad, or misguided, person. It's quite possible to live a good, decent and successful life without being guided by some superstitious belief. It's quite possible for a non religious group to do a lot of good in the world, for the sake of doing good rather than for any future reward once dead. Doctors without borders, the Red Cross and Red Crescent, Oxfam, UNICEF...

I think that you are misreading what he wrote. Many atheists formed their views of right and wrong in an environment where the majority of people were to at least some degree religious and they were greatly influenced by that. They might not believe that Jonah was swallowed by a whale or that Jesus walked the earth with dinosaurs but they probably still buy into at least 8 of the 10 commandments. Each atheist doesn't invent a moral compass on his own, usually it comes from his environment.

Edited January 19, 2010 by OriginalPoster

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP nested quotes deleted ><8

I think that you are misreading what he wrote. Many atheists formed their views of right and wrong in an environment where the majority of people were to at least some degree religious and they were greatly influenced by that. They might not believe that Jonah was swallowed by a whale or that Jesus walked the earth with dinosaurs but they probably still buy into at least 8 of the 10 commandments. Each atheist doesn't invent a moral compass on his own, usually it comes from his environment.

I think that a lot of the Jesus miracles could be interpreted without supernatural explanation - my favourite is the loaves and fishes story, where the point is that no-one had sufficient in their lunch box to feed the thousands, but when one little boy (and presumably everyone else as well) put their hands in their pockets, there was plenty to go round. A miracle, but not supernatural. Put in what you have, and take out what you need. Socialism, christianity, whatever.

Walking out on the water up to his waist to preach to the masses on the shore, and then everyone could hear. Nothing supernatural about that. Like most fishing stories, it gets less credible with each re-telling, when people add or miss out their own details.

I can see that if people don't want to think for themselves when they read the bible, then it might be easier to go to a church and employ a trained specialist to think for you.

I'm tempted to go out and buy a bible now, to see what specifics its got on Nana Plaza

SC

[OriginalPoster]

My wife had a run in with a missionary a few years before she met me. He was recruiting on campus at Ramkhamhaeng, she was freshman and she was curious. She was lucky she didn't have a phone at that time or she would have had to change her number. She finally had to move and not tell anyone where she was going to get away from the guy.

Anyone who thinks these missionaries aren't intimidating isn't looking too hard. It is possible that they do help a few people once in a while, but they terrorize alot more people than they help. My wife had nothing against Christianity until the missionaries got their claws on her.

BTW, Richard Dawkins is my hero. There are very few people with the moral courage to say they "despise" religion. Here's his militant atheism talk for anyone who is curious and doesn't know who he is. It's well worth listening to even if you don't agree with him.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_dawkins_o...nt_atheism.html

Ever talk to a timeshare salesman? Sounds like about the same behavior that you allege the you allege that the missionary employed. On account of that, should sales be banned as a profession? Or religion?

[ballpoint]

I think that you are misreading what he wrote. Many atheists formed their views of right and wrong in an environment where the majority of people were to at least some degree religious and they were greatly influenced by that. They might not believe that Jonah was swallowed by a whale or that Jesus walked the earth with dinosaurs but they probably still buy into at least 8 of the 10 commandments. Each atheist doesn't invent a moral compass on his own, usually it comes from his environment.

So you're saying religion is a pick and choose affair? I'll have some of those commandments, and a bit of smiting the infidel, but hold the Jonah and the dinosaurs? I was brought up in a totally non religious environment. My parents never went to church, none of my close friends went to church, but I do know what is right and wrong, and I do do what is right, without the fear of god telling me to do it. I probably couldn't tell you all 10 commandments, but I have never killed anyone human, and very few non human too. I don't steal. I do confess to coveting my neighbour's ass, but it's a very nice ass. Not that I'd steal it. I believe myself to be tolerant of others beliefs, my wife is Buddhist, I have friends and colleagues who are Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, the only times it matters is when we're planning where and what to eat. They don't try and convert me, I don't try and unconvert them. In day to day life it simply doesn't matter what someone believes in. But... try and tell me my life is bad, worthless, without purpose, that I am doomed to damnation because I know there is no god, or even if I did believe, I believed in the wrong one, then I will tell you in no uncertain terms where you can go. Being told these is irritating, but it doesn't just stop there. There are those, who in the name of religion, would give no second thought to killing me, my family, you, your family, and anyone else, no matter if we worship the wrong god, the right god, or no god at all. In my book, that alone outweighs any good organised religion does in the world. That and the fact that many of the members of the same religion do not condemn, or do all they possibly could to prevent, such acts.

If religion is a personal matter between you and your god, as it should be, then why the need to gather at set times to be told what your god wants you to do? Why let an old man living in a palace in Rome make life and death decisions for you? Why let a turbaned firebrand tell you to hate? Why not sit in a peaceful corner somewhere and see what you and your god come up with together? If he then tells you to go out and kill the infidel I suggest you're not religious after all, merely schizophrenic.

[OriginalPoster]

I think that you are misreading what he wrote. Many atheists formed their views of right and wrong in an environment where the majority of people were to at least some degree religious and they were greatly influenced by that. They might not believe that Jonah was swallowed by a whale or that Jesus walked the earth with dinosaurs but they probably still buy into at least 8 of the 10 commandments. Each atheist doesn't invent a moral compass on his own, usually it comes from his environment.

So you're saying religion is a pick and choose affair? I'll have some of those commandments, and a bit of smiting the infidel, but hold the Jonah and the dinosaurs? I was brought up in a totally non religious environment. My parents never went to church, none of my close friends went to church, but I do know what is right and wrong, and I do do what is right, without the fear of god telling me to do it. I probably couldn't tell you all 10 commandments, but I have never killed anyone human, and very few non human too. I don't steal. I do confess to coveting my neighbour's ass, but it's a very nice ass. Not that I'd steal it. I believe myself to be tolerant of others beliefs, my wife is Buddhist, I have friends and colleagues who are Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, the only times it matters is when we're planning where and what to eat. They don't try and convert me, I don't try and unconvert them. In day to day life it simply doesn't matter what someone believes in. But... try and tell me my life is bad, worthless, without purpose, that I am doomed to damnation because I know there is no god, or even if I did believe, I believed in the wrong one, then I will tell you in no uncertain terms where you can go. Being told these is irritating, but it doesn't just stop there. There are those, who in the name of religion, would give no second thought to killing me, my family, you, your family, and anyone else, no matter if we worship the wrong god, the right god, or no god at all. In my book, that alone outweighs any good organised religion does in the world. That and the fact that many of the members of the same religion do not condemn, or do all they possibly could to prevent, such acts.

If religion is a personal matter between you and your god, as it should be, then why the need to gather at set times to be told what your god wants you to do? Why let an old man living in a palace in Rome make life and death decisions for you? Why let a turbaned firebrand tell you to hate? Why not sit in a peaceful corner somewhere and see what you and your god come up with together? If he then tells you to go out and kill the infidel I suggest you're not religious after all, merely schizophrenic.

I don't think that anyone here has said that your "life is bad, worthless, without purpose" and that you are doomed to damnation.

But yes, I do think that for many people (perhaps for most Western people) religion is an ala carte affair, that they pick and chose the parts that they agree with. But it's more fun to portray it as an all-or-nothing dogma because that makes even casual practitioners seem all the more ignorant. It's like mocking anyone on the basis of a sterotype though, it's always fun if you're the mocker instead of the mockee.

As to why religion needs to be practiced in a group, it's probably the same reason that people go to rock concerts in a group. Why pay $100 per ticket to sit in a stadium to listen to your favorite group when actually it sounds better when you listen to the CD on your own stereo at home? Well - because some people are social, beacuse there's peer pressure, because there's good marketing, because it's big business... any number of reasons. But still, some do stay at home and pray, just as some stay at home and listen to the Rolling Stones.

Edited January 19, 2010 by OriginalPoster

[cdnvic]

Do we have anything further to say about the missionaries in Bangkok? Because the server really doesn't have storage space for a debate on the existence of God(s) and the meaning of life.

[StreetCowboy]

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8>< SNIP ><8

I don't think that anyone here has said that your "life is bad, worthless, without purpose" and that you are doomed to damnation.

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8>< SNIP ><8

Original Sin, and Damned Savages is all a bit 19th century, I think.

I'm not sure how literally most bible-bashers take the pearly gates and fires of hel_l, either, nowadays.

Having said that, its a long time since I spoke to any of the footsoldiers in the war on ungodliness, so that's a bit of speculation there. I have to say that the mormon footsoldiers are certainly the most smartly turned-out, and present a consistent image world-wide that shows a quality management system that rivals McDonalds...

SC

[cdnvic]

I've deleted some stuff that was rather inflamatory, none of it on topic, in fact we seem to be staying off topic here so I think this one is finished.