Christianity Or The Bar ?

[TheJoker12]

I say again, Thailand has its own religion that is forced upon the people. Open your eyes a bit more clearly.

[robblok]

"..As for "Christian Missionaries" they have a less than honorable past, going into third World countries preaching the "Lords word", while at the same time engaging in every deviant practice known to man and some they invented themselves.

You only have to look at many news sites and you will find they are still at it. mad.gif The B*****ds..."

Do you really think that argument is a valid reason to reject the tenants of Christianity?? Anyone, including ME, that would believe your argument at face value would say.."why would I want to be a Christian and be LIKE THAT!!".. The only problem with your thesis is you are not talking about Christians, you are talking about DEVIANTS who sexually ( or physically, or emotionally) abuse children,adults etc .. and CLAIM they are Christian are NOT..they are hiding behind the veil of Christianity..using that "religion" to put themselves in a position of trust to perpetuate their deviant practices..if they are deviant.. they are NOT Christians..so please don't delude yourself into thinking they are. Is that so hard to swallow??

signed: be against Christianity if you wish, but don't call deviants Christians, they are just deviants, no more, no less

Your using the same argument Muslims use to say the ppl that did 911 were no Muslims because they did bad things. I doubt there are any Christians left if you use this definition of a christian. Fact is they were inspired by Christianity. They were protected by the pope to cover things up. Dont forget the dark ages where there was the inquisition.

Sure there are Christians who do good things.. but so do atheist. A religion is not needed and is used to oppress and control people. "religion is opium to the poor"

I am an atheist and happy to be one. People have a moral code themselves no god needed to do either good or bad things.

[OriginalPoster]

I say again, Thailand has its own religion that is forced upon the people. Open your eyes a bit more clearly.

Are they forcing it on you?

Edited January 17, 2010 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

"..As for "Christian Missionaries" they have a less than honorable past, going into third World countries preaching the "Lords word", while at the same time engaging in every deviant practice known to man and some they invented themselves.

You only have to look at many news sites and you will find they are still at it. mad.gif The B*****ds..."

Do you really think that argument is a valid reason to reject the tenants of Christianity?? Anyone, including ME, that would believe your argument at face value would say.."why would I want to be a Christian and be LIKE THAT!!".. The only problem with your thesis is you are not talking about Christians, you are talking about DEVIANTS who sexually ( or physically, or emotionally) abuse children,adults etc .. and CLAIM they are Christian are NOT..they are hiding behind the veil of Christianity..using that "religion" to put themselves in a position of trust to perpetuate their deviant practices..if they are deviant.. they are NOT Christians..so please don't delude yourself into thinking they are. Is that so hard to swallow??

signed: be against Christianity if you wish, but don't call deviants Christians, they are just deviants, no more, no less

Your using the same argument Muslims use to say the ppl that did 911 were no Muslims because they did bad things. I doubt there are any Christians left if you use this definition of a christian. Fact is they were inspired by Christianity. They were protected by the pope to cover things up. Dont forget the dark ages where there was the inquisition.

Sure there are Christians who do good things.. but so do atheist. A religion is not needed and is used to oppress and control people. "religion is opium to the poor"

I am an atheist and happy to be one. People have a moral code themselves no god needed to do either good or bad things.

I'm an atheist too but I sometimes get a bit tired of seeing religious people being mocked for their beliefs.

[cognos]

"..Why do Christians have to equate nearly every form of sex with abuse and "sin"? Why can't they focus their disapproval and moral crusades on something else, like... oh, I don't know... how 'bout VIOLENCE? Or drug/alcohol abuse?.."

You were wrong about the sex reference ( refer to a previous post with quotes on page 2, and find your own, there are so many) and you are wrong about alcohol abuse.. the bible discusses the perils of alcohol abuse at length, (as it does about the merits of sex)..Isaiah Chapter 24, verse 8.." the noise of the revelers has stopped..No longer do they drink wine with a song; the beer is bitter to its drinkers.." There are many, many more readings available that allude to a "moral crusade" (to quote you) vis a vis the dangers of over- indulgence in alcohol. So many, in fact, that perhaps AA should take advantage of them, as AA speaks of one's "higher power" in the 12 step program.

If you want to spread untruths, that is your prerogative, but I will not sit idly be and let these false doctrines become self-fulfilled prophesies for those whose minds are perhaps not made up, and may believe someone's ulterior motives to turn a positive into a negative through plain bunk. Ignorance may be bliss for some, but not for those who do a little research. I wish TV folks would get their facts straight before pounding on keys and influencing others with incorrect assumptions.

signed: check your facts before key pounding

[Tod Daniels]

I'm sure there're just as many christian deviants as there are greek orthodox deviants or "insert religion of your choice here" deviants. I don't believe deviants monopolize any religious demographics more than any other (except perhaps catholic, but I'll let that go for now ).

I am totally against ANY religious group coming here and tying any aid they give into the mandatory "embrace our religion or we won't help you" type of coerced conversion. You wanna come help people, knock yourself out, just don't feel they also need to be converted to what ever cockamamie religious group you happened to belong to just to be deserving said proffered help. It goes on especially up-country with the plethora of hill-tribe people every day and the religious zealots masquerading as do-gooders who 'help' them.

Back to the O/P's topic;

It is for these reasons alone that I only patronize "Christian Go-Go Bars". ...

That way you cover both sides of the proverbial fence.

[robblok]

I'm an atheist too but I sometimes get a bit tired of seeing religious people being mocked for their beliefs.

Good for you, but in my country religious ppl still have more rights then non religious people. If an imam in Holland can say that they should throw gays from the high buildings head first and get away with it while i could not say a thing like that without getting arrested (not that i wanted) because i cant claim it has to do with my religion we have a long way to go. I'm now not singe-ling out Muslims just pointing out that religious people should not complain too much.

Don't forget before they burned people who did not believe.

[robblok]

Back to the O/P's topic;

It is for these reasons alone that I only patronize "Christian Go-Go Bars". ...

That way you cover both sides of the proverbial fence.

Finally some light humor I get carried away on the subject of religion at times.

[OriginalPoster]

I'm an atheist too but I sometimes get a bit tired of seeing religious people being mocked for their beliefs.

Good for you, but in my country religious ppl still have more rights then non religious people. If an imam in Holland can say that they should throw gays from the high buildings head first and get away with it while i could not say a thing like that without getting arrested (not that i wanted) because i cant claim it has to do with my religion we have a long way to go. I'm now not singe-ling out Muslims just pointing out that religious people should not complain too much.

Don't forget before they burned people who did not believe.

Impressive intolerance you've got going on there.

[lazygourmet]

[bonobo]

I am not intending to start a religious debate (that is a hole different issue, one I try to avoid at all costs), but why would you care about what "saved punter" believe, or what some people who receive charitable assistance believe? If it works for them, what should it matter to you?

I think it disingenuous, and slightly cynical if not sinister, to try to brainwash people with supernatural rubbish as a quid pro quo of saving them from whatever peril they may have been in - or worse, to try to supplant their previous beliefs system.

Save them for the good of the deed. What's wrong with that?

Who says there is a quid pro quo?  While it might happen sometimes, I alsso know for a fact that some groups offer assistance with no prerequisites or requirements from people being assisted.

And if the people assisting's religion is "supernatural rubbish," then wouldn't the religion of the people being assisted be "supernatural rubbish" as well.  So once again, what does it matter if you hold that both are superstition?.

[KASABIAN]

Religion and bars, well there's not much difference in the two:

Patrons to both think attending is an answer to their problems.

Both give false hope.

Both are often visited by nutcases.

Both followers live in a fantasy world.

[cognos]

I say again, Thailand has its own religion that is forced upon the people. Open your eyes a bit more clearly.

okay, i will.. and I see people like this..selfless folks like father Joe, who has worked in the slums on Klong Toei since 1967.. he believes that all religions are worthy.. as long as you don't abuse people. Rather than debate ad nauseum, it is better to DO SOMETHING concrete. My plan is to volunteer at the Mercy center, and walk the talk. Religion aside, Father Joe is a perfect example of this. The fact that he is a Christian is merely an aside.

signed: helping is where its at folks

father_joe.htm

[geriatrickid]

The existence of God is proven mathematically as there is no possibility that the universe could exist coincidentally without intelligent design. There are many experiments carried out in the field of quantum physics which demonstrate that consciousness and reality are interconnected, and that God is at least probable. In my experience, the people I have met who are most upset by the concept of religion or God are people who have the most to lose in the end if they are wrong. It is no use arguing about it anyway, as everyone will find out one way or another in the end.

As far as missionaries and Christianity, the Christians do perhaps more good works in this country than the Buddhists do. Nothing against Buddhism as I think it is a beautiful religion and is much like Christianity in many ways anyhow. But as a whole I believe the Christian church has done more charity-wise that Buddhists, but to be fair they also have more money.

Mathematics is not biochemisty, physiology, nor biology. "Intelligent design" is a misleading invented name for the literal acceptance of the Bible's story of creation. I am not going to get into a sidetracked debate on the subject, but the ridiculous proposals used to explain how Dinosaurs came after man and that carbon dating is unbelievable speaks for itself. One might as well believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The sad part of the Creationist, ooops sorry "Intelligent Design" position is that it is based upon making wild claims as to what the principles of evolution and selective adaptation actually say. The worst part of the false attributions made is when they say evolution says man is descended from apes. What evolution says is that we share a common origin. This is far more compatible with the Bible than the pseudo science that comes from people that are not qualified to discuss the subject and that have to make up facts.

I say again, Thailand has its own religion that is forced upon the people. Open your eyes a bit more clearly.

Are they forcing it on you?

Yes they are. It is forced upon me when I enter a public building and there are religious symbols. In countries with a secure sense of nation, a public building should be neutral. What kind of message is given to the muslim population which has been in Thailand for as long as the Buddhists? It is forced upon me when I enter a taxi or other public transit and there are the religious icons and markings in the vehicle. Vehicles in public service trade should not have a religious flavour.

It is forced upon me when I have to hear the prayers broadcast over the loudspeakers. It is forced upon me by my friends when they go to Temple with their offerings and insist that I accompany them. I will go, but decline to enter or purchase offerings. They believe that I am being cheap, particularly when I do not put money into the envelope of the guy collecting for the Temple. I will not engage in idol worship nor support such activity. It is forced upon me when a monk comes with his alms bowl. It is considered offensive not to give food or alms. I however, find it offensive that the act of charity is a public spectacle. Charity should be done quietly and anonymously. It is forced upon me with the never ending collections when someone decides he's going to make merit and be a monk for a month. It is forced upon me when the staff at the airport counter will fall all over themselves to make sure the monk gets priority service. Who cares if the monk is selling fake amulets or is a scoundrel hiding out. He's in a monk's robes, so you have to make nice. The obstacles and barriers in place for non Buddhist denominations that wish to erect a church, temple, mosque etc. does suggest that such faiths are not "encouraged".

I accept the religious aspect of life here because that's the way it is. However, there is a conceited arrogance that says there is no need to learn about any other religion or to appreciate that some people are not Buddhists.

[phetaroi]

There were two Supreme Court cases involving that issue in the 1940's. Since 1943, it's been settled law that students cannot be punished for refusing to cite the Pledge of Allegiance. Of course that doesn't mean that the kids won't get bullied and harassed by other kids over it, it just means that teachers and school administrators can't be the ones doing the bullying and harassing. Even before the 1943 decision the issue wasn't that people were being arrested or prosecuted for not saying the pledge though, the case arose from children of Jevohah's witnesses being expelled from school for unwillingness to recite the pledge.

A good example of how the law can say one thing, but that something else is done. I am a retired school principal and I know of schools where students were were given discipline referrals and suspended for not participating in the pledge. The suspensions were, of course, overturned. Nevertheless, those situations occurred.

[phetaroi]

As for Christians doing more "good" than Buddhists, while it is partly a financial matter, I think it also has something to do with being on a "group path" or a "solitary path". The goals are somewhat different in the two religions.

Of course, Buddhism is focuses on issues pertaining to self, and undistorted Christianity is concerned with serving each other.

I'm glad you said undistorted.

[robblok]

I'm an atheist too but I sometimes get a bit tired of seeing religious people being mocked for their beliefs.

Good for you, but in my country religious ppl still have more rights then non religious people. If an imam in Holland can say that they should throw gays from the high buildings head first and get away with it while i could not say a thing like that without getting arrested (not that i wanted) because i cant claim it has to do with my religion we have a long way to go. I'm now not singe-ling out Muslims just pointing out that religious people should not complain too much.

Don't forget before they burned people who did not believe.

Impressive intolerance you've got going on there.

You call it intolerance pointing out that religious ppl have nothing to complain about and still have more rights ? I call it stating facts. I'm tolerant of other religions as long as they don't bother me and that is usually the problem.

I must say its good to be in Thailand not much problems with religion. But if i read about my country that shops have to close on Sundays again because of christian groups i see that as a problem. Why do religious people like to force their beliefs on others.

Im stating facts and yes there is some resentment because i see my lovely country change back from liberal to more backward under guidance of a christian government. I live here but i still feel for my country.

[phetaroi]

I say again, Thailand has its own religion that is forced upon the people. Open your eyes a bit more clearly.

Are they forcing it on you?

Yes they are. It is forced upon me when I enter a public building and there are religious symbols. In countries with a secure sense of nation, a public building should be neutral. What kind of message is given to the muslim population which has been in Thailand for as long as the Buddhists? It is forced upon me when I enter a taxi or other public transit and there are the religious icons and markings in the vehicle. Vehicles in public service trade should not have a religious flavour.

It is forced upon me when I have to hear the prayers broadcast over the loudspeakers. It is forced upon me by my friends when they go to Temple with their offerings and insist that I accompany them. I will go, but decline to enter or purchase offerings. They believe that I am being cheap, particularly when I do not put money into the envelope of the guy collecting for the Temple. I will not engage in idol worship nor support such activity. It is forced upon me when a monk comes with his alms bowl. It is considered offensive not to give food or alms. I however, find it offensive that the act of charity is a public spectacle. Charity should be done quietly and anonymously. It is forced upon me with the never ending collections when someone decides he's going to make merit and be a monk for a month. It is forced upon me when the staff at the airport counter will fall all over themselves to make sure the monk gets priority service. Who cares if the monk is selling fake amulets or is a scoundrel hiding out. He's in a monk's robes, so you have to make nice. The obstacles and barriers in place for non Buddhist denominations that wish to erect a church, temple, mosque etc. does suggest that such faiths are not "encouraged".

I accept the religious aspect of life here because that's the way it is. However, there is a conceited arrogance that says there is no need to learn about any other religion or to appreciate that some people are not Buddhists.

Baloney. It's not being forced upon you...as is clear from your attitude. UNLESS you are willing to say that by reading your post you are forcing your beliefs on me.

And who says a public building should be neutral? You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto. It's THEIR country to do as they wish. Not yours to change.

Edited January 17, 2010 by phetaroi

[Hawk]

God is human, as he(?) was invented by humans, the elite, for the sole purpose of keeping the ordinary folk in line and suppressed.

[bonobo]

sorry, you are wrong friend..if you check the bible you will find that sex is condoned between wife and husband and even praised as a blessing, in so many passages it ain't funny.. you do NOT have a leg to stand on with your argument.. it is a slippery - sloped argument you espouse without basis of fact... what is NOT condoned is adultry. Songs Chapter 2, 3..16 " my lover is mine and I am his "..Chapter 3 " All night long on my bed..I held him and would not let him go.." Read a little!!

signed: get your facts straight before you spread incorrect statements

Fact??? The Bible is not Fact, it is no more than a leap of faith. Made up of anecdotal stories handed down, changed, interpreted, miss intrepeted, miss translated and so on and so on. One in which you either believe or disbelieve.

If I remember, it was 400 years after the death of Jesus, that anyone even started to put pen to parchment and started to write the first part. I could be wrong though.

Just because certain things are written in the bible, does not make it fact. Unless you are of the opinion that a fictional tome written now, could as if by magic, become fact after 2000 years and around which a religion could be based.

In this case, the use of the word "fact" is warranted.  Cognos was posting that sex is allowed, even praised in Christianity, and he used a couple of Bible passages to prove it.  As the Bible is the guide, so-to-speak, for Christians, then it is certainly appropriate to say "get your facts straight" in this context.

Now, to say that something written in the Bible is a universal "fact" of nature, history, whatever, yes, that is a matter of belief.  But to say that the fact-of-the-matter is that Christians believe any particular thing, then use the Bible to prove that, well, that is the "fact" being proven.  The "fact" that Christians believe it, not that it is a universal truth held by everyone else as well.

[bonobo]

Mathematics is not biochemisty, physiology, nor biology. "Intelligent design" is a misleading invented name for the literal acceptance of the Bible's story of creation. I am not going to get into a sidetracked debate on the subject, but the ridiculous proposals used to explain how Dinosaurs came after man and that carbon dating is unbelievable speaks for itself. One might as well believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The sad part of the Creationist, ooops sorry "Intelligent Design" position is that it is based upon making wild claims as to what the principles of evolution and selective adaptation actually say. The worst part of the false attributions made is when they say evolution says man is descended from apes. What evolution says is that we share a common origin. This is far more compatible with the Bible than the pseudo science that comes from people that are not qualified to discuss the subject and that have to make up facts.

Not to get picky, but Creationists and Intelligent Designers are not the same animal.

A Creationist, at least in the US, is a person who believes the Bible is a literal account of the creation of the world, right down to the number of years in the earth's existence. Some of them are the ones who accept the existence of dinosaurs based on a reference to "behemoth" in the Bible, but they contend that man and dinosaur co-existed. 

Intelligent designers accept the currently accepted account of the world's history.  THey just believe that this could not have happened by pure happenstance, and they point out to some as of yet unexplained anomalies in timelines and mutation rates to assert that the evolution process had help from some higher being.

The main difference, in my opinion, is that Creation Theory can be pretty much disproved by the vast amount of accumulated evidence while the Intelligent Design Theory is pretty much impossible to disprove (or prove.)

[IanForbes]

In this case, the use of the word "fact" is warranted. Cognos was posting that sex is allowed, even praised in Christianity, and he used a couple of Bible passages to prove it. As the Bible is the guide, so-to-speak, for Christians, then it is certainly appropriate to say "get your facts straight" in this context.

Now, to say that something written in the Bible is a universal "fact" of nature, history, whatever, yes, that is a matter of belief. But to say that the fact-of-the-matter is that Christians believe any particular thing, then use the Bible to prove that, well, that is the "fact" being proven. The "fact" that Christians believe it, not that it is a universal truth held by everyone else as well.

Well stated, bonobo. As per usual I have to agree with your assessment. The Bible and other written doctrines ARE filled with a lot of contraditions.

[cognos]

God is human, as he(?) was invented by humans, the elite, for the sole purpose of keeping the ordinary folk in line and suppressed.

we will agree to disagree.. in a 180 degree fashion..in your books, God.."was invented by humans".. in my books.. God invented man ( and woman ). (Perhaps we should both listen to ACDC .. Who made who??, as if they f'n know)

..so you think its all a pacifier for the masses..to keep them down on the farm eh?? Elite or poor, we all go into the box without pockets sewed on for "money"..as its no good for either group

One of us is wrong..if its me, answer this..what good will money do for the "elite" when they are dead??

[geriatrickid]

Baloney. It's not being forced upon you...as is clear from your attitude. UNLESS you are willing to say that by reading your post you are forcing your beliefs on me.

And who says a public building should be neutral? You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto. It's THEIR country to do as they wish. Not yours to change.

Well, when there is no separation of church and state, then there is a predisposition to favour the state sponsored religion. I do not see how I am forcing my beliefs upon you when I say that there should be a separation of church and state and that people should be free to believe or not to believe. A public building should indeed be neutral as it is intended to serve everyone and is funded by everyone. To do otherwise is to say that one group is favoured over another. Your reference to Kansas may be an unintentional error on your part because of the state board of education's lengthy embarrassment in respect to backing creationism/intelligent design. It was an act of stupidity that cost the state dearly and was a situation where the separation of church and state was ignored. Obviously you and I disagree. However, I do believe my view that religion is a personal subject and that one should not be subjected to having any religion foisted on a person is more respectful of a person's basic human rights than your view.

I disagree vehemently with you. Intelligent Design is the fall back position of the creationists. It was funded and sponsored by the same people that had pushed creationism. Obviously this is not the place to have such a discussion. I do invite you to google the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The wikipedia entry provides a nice overview if you find the amount of info and links for the Pastafarian church to be too much. I believe that you will fund sufficient documentation to demonstrate the links between the creationist groups and Intelligent Design groups as well as many examples of how Intelligent design is a charade. I still hold to the belief that the original theories expounded upon by Darwin and eventually improved upon by others was greatly influenced by Darwin's Anglican background and exposure to Unitarian Christianity and is far more compatible with the bible than the fallacy of intelligent design.

[AsiaCheese]

Starting a 'religion' subject in a forum dominated by whoremongers and alcoholics..(oops)

What next?

As for foisting religion upon 'us'..it's the Darwinian bullshit that's been foisted upon us fot the last 50 years or more.

In effect ,atheism.

..and make no mistake that the 'elite' are christians.

They worship other -dark- lords.

Of course -for the masses- atheism.

So you never gonna decipher their dark plans for humanity.

www.overlordsofchaos.com

Yes right, sure.

According to the latest Gallup polls on the "matter", your statistical profile says that you must be American (25% do not believe in evolution), Republican (48% do not believe in evolution), and not belong to the group (19%) that says the bible consists of ancient fables, history, legends recorded by man (31% in contrast say it's the actual word of god, to be taken literally).

OMG... right back in the dark middle ages. Why not just restart the inquisition (= yet another crackdown).

[PeaceBlondie]

Geriatric Kid is right, as usual, The separation of church and state, which was invented in Rhode Island in the 1600's, is NOT in Thailand. Buddhism is a State-established Thai religion that has 'divine status' here.

[Tod Daniels]

Do people not read the title of a thread before responding?

Is it a ‘herd mentality’ thing, one person posts off topic and the rest follow, kind of like lemmings jumping off a cliff?

In the vein of the current topic (which I will add again and for the record is NOT the O/P’s); I must quote one of my favorite movie lines EVER concerning God, religion, etc and it pretty much sums up my belief about the entire subject;

Morgan Freeman (a famous US actor) had a line in the 2003 Stephen King movie "Dreamcatcher";

"God is nothing more than an imaginary friend for grown-ups."

I say; feel free to use your imaginary friend all you want but don't judge me, look down on me or in any way feel he hasta be my imaginary friend too. I'll pick my own if you don't mind

Modz; think we might be able to bend this topic anywhere near back on target?

[canuckamuck]

You see, he is trying to fool you Tod. If you kept up with his other movies you would see that God is actually Morgan Freeman.

Edited January 17, 2010 by canuckamuck

[AsiaCheese]

Right, on the subject then:

as much as I'm personally [just short of militantly] opposed to organized religions being forced down people's collective throats, I have to admit that there are some real good-doers out there as well, one being the Fountain of Life Women's Center in Naklua, just North of Sin City Pattaya. They have sisters who teach [mostly bar] ladies English, sewing, massage and what-not, all for free, and for all I know there's never even a mention of Christianity or a question of converting people to anything but to a "better person", as in: more self-assured, potentially able to work in a trade other than the "where you from, how long you stay" one, and more knowledgable in such things as women's rights in this country (yes, the runaway daddy would need to pay for kiddie...).

For once, it's a matter of a functional message, and not "just do as I say; don't do as I do". Tipping my hat, sista's!

[bonobo]

I disagree vehemently with you. Intelligent Design is the fall back position of the creationists. It was funded and sponsored by the same people that had pushed creationism. Obviously this is not the place to have such a discussion. I do invite you to google the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The wikipedia entry provides a nice overview if you find the amount of info and links for the Pastafarian church to be too much. I believe that you will fund sufficient documentation to demonstrate the links between the creationist groups and Intelligent Design groups as well as many examples of how Intelligent design is a charade. I still hold to the belief that the original theories expounded upon by Darwin and eventually improved upon by others was greatly influenced by Darwin's Anglican background and exposure to Unitarian Christianity and is far more compatible with the bible than the fallacy of intelligent design.

And that is quite your right to disagree with me.

I have read articles written years ago from religious scientists who did not think science and religion were diametrically opposed.  WHat they wrote was pretty close to the median Intelligent Design theory.  

And I have not doubt that the bulk of the Intelligent Designers used to be ardent Creationists until the body of evidence for evolution and the age of the earth was just too great to ignore, so they came up with a theory which fits the evidence and allows for their religious beliefs.

And you can call it a charade or a fallacy, if you want, and that is your opinion.  But the fact of the matter, and I am using the word "fact" on purpose, is that generally speaking, Intelligent Design cannot be disproven.   Creationism can be pretty well disproven by the body of evidence, but how do you disprove a belief as to a cause?  I sure don't know any way to tell if a particular mutation some 2 billion years ago occurred by pure chance or if it had a little help along the way.