French Man Arrested For Allegedly Offering Underage Sex Service In Pattaya

[Roachiebkk]

Word has it that once a Thai receives their ID card they are old enough to consent to sex and that is usually at age 15!. I hope they clear out the remainder of these child panderers in Thailand especially in Pattaya but I daresay there are loads of girls in the 15 to 17 year age group working at massage places all over Bangkok and elsewhere. Good on the FBI, I'd say this guy may have been able to continue or has been operating under the knowing eye of the BiBs.

[Jingthing]

In Thailand, the consent age for PAID sex is 18.

[ma91c1an]

No we don't have any details, but lets apply a little common sense to this. This is not the Thai police looking for Tea Money. They were asked to arrest the guy by the FBI. So with all the shenanigans that go on in Thailand, Pattaya in particular, this guys shenanigans were the cream that rose to the top of all the other shenanigans. When you see what is overtly tolerated in Thailand by every sector of society, then consider that this guy was singled out by INTERNATIONAL law enforcement as being noteworthy, how much more do you need to know? The guy should be SHOT!

FBI is not an international law enforcement agency, they have no right to "enforce" the law anywhere outside of the USA...

Technically, this is incorrect.

American citizens are subject to American law worldwide.

An American citizen who breaks an American law, anywhere in the world, can be arrested, extradited, and brought before an American court.

It does not matter what the local "age of consent" might be. If the age of consent is below that mandated by American law, an American citizen can still be charged with a violation of American law and prosecuted.

[granuaile]

I wonder if all or some of you that are replying ask the person you take with you, home or to your rooms, for a ID card to make sure the girl/boy is over 18 and not 17 years and 11 months and 29 days old ?

When I am interested in someone romantically I make sure I know their ages. I don't think that gay bars should be singled out, and I don't believe they are. But really I am more than a little supportive of targeting the trade in human flesh everywhere in the world, particularly if it involves young or otherwise vulnerable victims. A part of me is glad to see the sex trade cracked down on. There is much more here in Thailand than that.

I certainly think pimps and their like should face stern penalties, whether straight or gay and particularly pushing children.

Not everyone comes to Thailand for sex.

[Jingthing]

American citizens are subject to American law worldwide.

I think that is incorrect. Americans are specifically subject to US federal law about specifically codified sex crimes internationally, NOT all laws. In other words in countries where the age of consent is lower than 18, that law is irrelevant to Americans, they are still subject to US prosecution. This gets even stranger. My last home state in the US has an age of consent of 15! Many US states have similar LOWER ages of consent. Yet while abroad I am subject to the US federal age, 18. French certainly are not subject to US law unless within the US. Edited January 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

"Police Crackdown on Foreign Owned Sex Bars" is scheduled to begin February 16 or before and targets gay bars, beer bars and gogos with bar fines in Pattaya and then possibly in the other cities.

Here is why I read the above as being ONLY about gay establishments.

Consider this sentence --

The mayor has ordered that purple houses, buildings, huts, and bus shelters be painted orange within the next 30 days.

How would you read that? That the huts he is talking about are now purple or not?

[basjke]

In Thailand, the consent age for PAID sex is 18.

In Thailand PAID sex is forbidden by law at all ages.

Edited January 27, 2010 by basjke

[Gats]

Not defending the bar owners who do this. I would love to see it wiped out. I am questioning the scapegoating ONLY of gay establishments. That seems political, and it stinks.

All due respect mate, but you're turning this into a witch hunt when it isn't. If you are concerned about the "gay bar crackdown" please comment on that article in that forum post. If you do, also consider this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/57-Alleged-P...Ph-t333286.html before you start crying victim.

The lead on this came from the US FBI (which is not a foriegn investigative service) and therefore had nothing to do with any Thai crackdown. I would imagine this guy was found in connection with some sort of pedophile ring (or at least 1 pedophile with a camera) that was busted in the US. The Australian federal police have passed on similar info in the past and Thai police rely on this stuff a lot to get the real nasties. This is all good because the money from richer countries funds this kids stuff, the richer countries have better investigative services and they should be using them protecting all children they can from their own fat wallet predators.

Let's not mistake a fallen tree for a soap box. The abuse of children is not a place for you to voice your victim complex as these children are the real victims here and does not become a gay biase just because the word was used in the article.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Gats

[Jingthing]

In Thailand, the consent age for PAID sex is 18.

In Thailand PAID sex is forbidden by law at all ages.

True, but legally irrelevant.

[mrdome]

Jing, I'd almost agree with your point but are there any specifically *gay* beer bars?

[cambobbo]

For those who like to see things in black and white, don't bother checking the following links as they show a variety of shades of that ever so annoying gray color.

Age of consent of various countries, but not necessarily related to commercial sex:

www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

Age of consent in Thailand, including commercial sex:

www.ageofconsent.com/thailand.htm

For commercial sex, there is a difference in penalties for <15 and 15-18.

Under 13 is statutory rape.

But don't forget, ALL prostitution is illegal in Thailand!

[Jingthing]

[quote name='Jingthing'

All due respect mate, but you're turning this into a witch hunt when it isn't.

Read my later posts, mate. I already conceded there may be no relation of this specific bust to the coming crackdown against foreign owners of off fee establishments.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Jing, I'd almost agree with your point but are there any specifically *gay* beer bars?

Yes, many!

[CrossBones]

Is it really fair to publish peoples name for alleged sex offences? Given that it only alleged and not proven.

Having your name published as a potential pedo.. could totally ruin your life... he might be innocent

[peecee]

No we don't have any details, but lets apply a little common sense to this. This is not the Thai police looking for Tea Money. They were asked to arrest the guy by the FBI. So with all the shenanigans that go on in Thailand, Pattaya in particular, this guys shenanigans were the cream that rose to the top of all the other shenanigans. When you see what is overtly tolerated in Thailand by every sector of society, then consider that this guy was singled out by INTERNATIONAL law enforcement as being noteworthy, how much more do you need to know? The guy should be SHOT!

I've seen under-age boy's in Shenanigans and the management ignore it, most distasteful at breakfast!

[uts]

Update:

French businessman nabbed in Pattaya for child sex abuse

CHONBURI: -- A combined force from Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) and local police in this coastal province late Tuesday night arrested a French businessman who runs many entertainment venues in the seaside resort of Pattaya on charge of sexually abusing child and providing child sex for his customers.

French national Jean Eric Lopez, 47, was arrested after the DSI's Bureau of Foreign Affairs and Transnational Crime was informed by representatives of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in Thailand and French national police based at the French Embassy in Thailand that Mr Lopez used to run entertainment venues which offered boy sex trade for hire and the accused himself had sexually abused children.

According to the investigation, the DSI officials found that Mr Lopez is a shareholder in several entertainment venues for homosexuals in Pattaya, which provide children aged between 12 and 20 year-old to the customers.

The Pattaya Court issued an arrest warrant of Mr Lopez on Tuesday and he was arrested hours later.

The DSI operation officials also impounded a number of gay sex CDs and condoms. The French national has been charged with taking indecent liberties with children aged under 18-years-old despite having the child's consent.

The accused denied the charges and was later taken to Pattaya for further questioning.

-- TNA 2010-01-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

FRENCH BUSINESSMAN- Must be joking! NOT GUILTY YET!

Let the prosecution prove its case beyond reasonable doubt, and the appeals process begin,

come back in 2 - 3 years and we will see what verdict is established.

LET'S NOT ASSUME AT THIS POINT!

[Jingthing]

Is it really fair to publish peoples name for alleged sex offences? Given that it only alleged and not proven.

Having your name published as a potential pedo.. could totally ruin your life... he might be innocent

Yes its legal. If you are arrested for anything here, your name can be published.

[Jingthing]

No we don't have any details, but lets apply a little common sense to this. This is not the Thai police looking for Tea Money. They were asked to arrest the guy by the FBI. So with all the shenanigans that go on in Thailand, Pattaya in particular, this guys shenanigans were the cream that rose to the top of all the other shenanigans. When you see what is overtly tolerated in Thailand by every sector of society, then consider that this guy was singled out by INTERNATIONAL law enforcement as being noteworthy, how much more do you need to know? The guy should be SHOT!

I've seen under-age boy's in Shenanigans and the management ignore it, most distasteful at breakfast!

Please be very careful before making assumptions about what you see in public. A lot of the underage Thai boys you see out in public in Pattaya with older western men are with them because the man is their father or guardian. That is so common here that I feel sorry for the men who must put up with dirty looks of the ignorant when they are only trying to be good Dads. Sure if they are snogging you can make your assumptions; I doubt you would see that very often at Shenanigans.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[Gats]

i fully expect bible-thumpers to jump on me for this one and you have your right to your opinion and i'll leave it at that.. i lost mine at 13, VERY willingly.

So what do you propose we do? Remove the law altogether?

And I'll also assume you lost yours to another juvenille, not your school principal who had a responsibility to not manipulate you? A juevenille who can't be charged with statutory rape in an adult court?

The law can't sit down with 20 psyc experts and evaluate whether a 50 year old really loved his 15 year old lover or not, it needs to be black and white and simple. If 100 people can't get their rocks off with the kids they want to and 1 child is spared being manipulated by teachers, priests or a pimp, then it's worth it.

This stupid argument about removing a protection law because it doesn't protect kids from themselves is idiotic and not what the law is there for. No skating on the sidewalk does not stop kids either, that's why we need to make it illegal for adults to cash in on youthful stupidity for their own sexual gratification... just for the ones who it protects, not the ones who don't need protection.

[walkertalker]

Is it really fair to publish peoples name for alleged sex offences? Given that it only alleged and not proven.

Having your name published as a potential pedo.. could totally ruin your life... he might be innocent

Yes its legal. If you are arrested for anything here, your name can be published.

The question asked was "is it fair" not "is it legal" . Try and keep up JT grown ups are talking NOW !

[uts]

Is it really fair to publish peoples name for alleged sex offences? Given that it only alleged and not proven.

Having your name published as a potential pedo.. could totally ruin your life... he might be innocent

TRUE- TOTALLY IMPROPER TO ASSUME ON ALLEGATIONS!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jingthing]

It is very true that many gay youth aggressively pursue older sexual partners. They do this for many reasons, sometimes because they are in the closet with their peer group, and sometimes because that's their primary attraction, older men (and yes of course sometimes to get money). However, the older guys are still guilty even if they were jumped on. Its no excuse for the older guys.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[BlackJack]

My understanding of the passage in bold is that there will be a crackdown on 1. gay bars. 2. beer bars 3. gogo bars that have bar fines in Pattaya and possibly in other cities. So I do not believe that Gay establishments are the only targets involved! Step down from the high horse, take a deep breath and relax.

DITTO

[tominbkk]

Edit: I guess I should explain that I am the sort of person that sees only Black or White on issues related to the law. If one breaks the law, one should be punished to the full extent of the law! In other areas I am more flexible and see the need for some grey but not when it comes to the law.

Unfortunately the Thai legal system sees all kinds of shades of grey, er, or more likely sees purple and light brown as the best colors when legal matters need to be decided. Still, always follow the rules of the country you are in, otherwise you are just asking for it.

I also see people throwing the word pedophile around a lot in this forum. From Wiki: Pedophilia is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children. Pedophiles then are after very young children, and I think they have other names for people after older kids. I doubt that these bars are touting kids under 12 or 13. Still, anything under 20 is illegal, so all's fair fro the cops to bust. Then again, isn't all prostitution illegal in Thailand? Last time I looked it was.

[Jingthing]

My understanding of the passage in bold is that there will be a crackdown on 1. gay bars. 2. beer bars 3. gogo bars that have bar fines in Pattaya and possibly in other cities. So I do not believe that Gay establishments are the only targets involved! Step down from the high horse, take a deep breath and relax.

It can be read EITHER way. From a pure language point of view, my reading makes more sense. CLARIFICATION is required to settle this. I didn't write it. I read it, and I believe I read it as it was WRITTEN.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[brianb1944]

I wonder if all or some of you that are replying ask the person you take with you, home or to your rooms, for a ID card to make sure the girl/boy is over 18 and not 17 years and 11 months and 29 days old ?

Personally, could never take home anyone looking remotely same age as my grandchildren. Not that I have taken anyone home for a long time, as I married a mature Thai lady.

[brianb1944]

My understanding of the passage in bold is that there will be a crackdown on 1. gay bars. 2. beer bars 3. gogo bars that have bar fines in Pattaya and possibly in other cities. So I do not believe that Gay establishments are the only targets involved! Step down from the high horse, take a deep breath and relax.

It can be read EITHER way. From a pure language point of view, my reading makes more sense. CLARIFICATION is required to settle this. I didn't write it. I read it, and I believe I read it as it was WRITTEN.

It quite clearly states that crackdown will be on gay and straight bars, what is this paranoia about?

[CrossBones]

Is it really fair to publish peoples name for alleged sex offences? Given that it only alleged and not proven.

Having your name published as a potential pedo.. could totally ruin your life... he might be innocent

Yes its legal. If you are arrested for anything here, your name can be published.

I said its not fair.. nothing about being legal

[Theo007]

The law is the law in this regard. If the person concerned isunderage there is no excuse. Unfortunately many of these young men who work in these bars are not gay and do so only for the money. They are exploited by the bar owners for their own financial gain. At times I have heard of boys as young as twelve working in these bars and Pattaya does not need this type of tourism.

[Crash999]

PATTAYA, CHONBURI: -- Police Wednesday arrested a French man for allegedly proving boys under 18 for sex services.

Mewonders how he proved that... Did he ask them if they remember a time when MTV actually played music videos?