AIS At War With TOT, Voice Users Will Be Disconnected On February 1

[webfact]

Ok, enough is enough. We all had fun.

Several off-topic an nonsensical posts deleted. Others may follow and result in a suspension.

Back on track or hardball.

Your turn

Thank you

[heybruce]

In simple English, does this mean I won't be able to use my AIS mobile service to talk to a TOT user?

[Tejas]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

That is it.......children in adult bodies.

Personally, since these companies have been cheating Thais (and foreigners) for years, I hope they end up destroying each other.

[brianb1944]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

Seems many on this site love to Thai Bash...

I do business with many Thai's and most are very pleasant and easy to deal with, but it also depends on how you act towards them...

ooh, I hope that you dont live in a glass house!

[watcharacters]

is anyone elses head swimming with Alphabet soup?

AIS tells TOT talk to the NTC or GTFO is what i got our of it....

Yes it is.

Now please tell me what they're trying to say.

[moskito]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

That is it.......children in adult bodies.

Personally, since these companies have been cheating Thais (and foreigners) for years, I hope they end up destroying each other.

sooner or later they will. In Germany our Telecom worked terrible too....until they privatised it, kicked 50% of the workers out and NOW its a pretty good

service called German Telecom....bad luck for the jobless people but as long as they behave like their jobs are save, whatever they do or better NOT DO

its fine with me.

ToT provides a terrible service in all chapters I know. A week no internet connection is no rarity here!

[MAJIC]

I am wondering how the AIS 3G internet coverage in Chonburi will be effected?

AIS does not have 3G in BKK but does in HuaHin, Chonburi and ChaingMai on the 900Mhz band. Please leave the band (900Mhz -2100Mhz argument to the many other threads on that subject).

PS, What is 'OTOP' in the previous post?

All I can say is I wish AIS 3G was not the only option in Chonburi, Service, just trying to get an honest answer out of them is like flying to the moon. Very frustrating.

OTOP stands for One Tambon One Product,another of Taksins brainwaves,whereby every area is encouraged to

produce the same product and not diversify. Hence rows of roadside Banana and Coconut sellers etc.

And the reason for this extreme competion? God knows!

[Foggy Bottom]

I am wondering how the AIS 3G internet coverage in Chonburi will be effected?

AIS does not have 3G in BKK but does in HuaHin, Chonburi and ChaingMai on the 900Mhz band. Please leave the band (900Mhz -2100Mhz argument to the many other threads on that subject).

PS, What is 'OTOP' in the previous post?

All I can say is I wish AIS 3G was not the only option in Chonburi, Service, just trying to get an honest answer out of them is like flying to the moon. Very frustrating.

OTOP stands for One Tambon One Product,another of Taksins brainwaves,whereby every area is encouraged to

produce the same product and not diversify. Hence rows of roadside Banana and Coconut sellers etc.

And the reason for this extreme competion? God knows!

OTOP in it's original incarnation was designed as an efficiency drive - it predates the (now debated) Mon (recorded as Camathewi / Chamadevi) or possibly Khmer (recorded as Jamadevi) princess who wrested Lamphun (then a village most likely, but called a city in manuscripts) from the Lawa king of the lower Ping basin and built it up using the name Hariphunchai for it.

Mengrai's Lan Na, and Ramkhamhaeng's Sukhothai, extended and inproved the OTOP principle, but it died away with the capture of Lan Na by the Burmese. The Japanese (who had provided mercenary Guards to the Ayutthayan kings, picked up on the concept after the sacking of Ayutthaya by the Burmese in the pre-Chakri period. There are tentative references to OTOP practices being re-introduced to Thailand during the Japanese occupation of WW2 (including, sadly, one wag's opinion that the Death Railway POW camps were a bastardisation and epitome of the OTOP system).

One of Thaksin's dream populist programs was to turn OTOP mainstream and he modelled the bureaucratic conditions to be met, on the handicrafts villages around the Chiang Mai area. He even went so far as to try and push a technology park development into become an OTOP for hi-tech (the big expanse of empty, though streeted and serviced, plots behind Carrefour on the Superhighway, which are now becoming the OTOP-hub of karaoke.

He also tried with telecoms to herd all the non-state companies into OTOP-like zones and technology parks, and had a chance of succeeding before p-ing off too many people late in his first term in office.

Of course, at least I hope so, many people will remember that one of Thaksin's first directives upon becoming PM was to heavily reduce the foreign shareholding permitted within telecomm's companies, and just before the sale of Shin to Temasek, he reversed that law, returning foreign (telecomms) shareholding allowances back to what they had been under Chuan Leekpai and the Democrats, as imposed by the IMF as part of the bale-out package for 1997.

Whilst I agree the public reporting (as per the OP) presents a childish outlook to the moves by TOT, and a degree of "running to mummy" and "hiding under the apron" by deferring the approval process to "higher" authority - you also have to look at the AIS-demanded share of available bandwidth, as reported late in the OP's article. Given AIS's (or more accurately - Shin Corp's) history of riding rough shod over smaller rivals, and their reputation for "encroachment" beyond their licensed boundaries (it's a metaphor - comparing them to forestry encroachers (of all levels of society)), then I read the OP as TOT acting in a mature and sanctioned manner - i.e. "by the book".

OK, TOT going "by the book" (is that the same as a work to rule, or non-striking strike?) may not be the friendliest way to have approached this, but remember the Democrats are in power, and this is the era of C.Y.A. - which is exactly what the TOT executives are doing. Well done to them too, for not bowing under AIS bullying.

Foggy

(edit - to add the different transliterations for the disputed princess's name in the first paragraph)

Edited January 30, 2010 by Foggy Bottom

[Jonathanpattaya]

What a complete and utter national embarrassment!

Bullseye in the foot.

[Pib]

A typical case of a governmental/quasi-governmental agency wanting another governmental agency/committee to make the decision/take the blame if things go wrong. You gotta remember that the great, great majority of major/significant money decisions made in Thailand are made by committee to help hide the tracks and/or spread the blame if the decision is challenged/goes wrong/determined to be corrupt. Almost daily in the news you read of a new committee/commission being established to determine/evaluate/recommend/solve/etc., some major/significant issue.

Yea, I know this happens to X-degree in other countries also, but in Thailand it seems to happen at a "way above average" amount. And so, so often the committee/commission's recommendation is "another agency must make the decision," which usually restarts the cycle of establishment of a new committee/commission to determine/evaluate/recommend/solve/etc., some major/significant issue.

Summary: reaching a final decision on many issues can take a long, long time in Thailand; much longer that what you may be use to in your home country. But don't worry, Thailand will achieve 3G coverage (about the time the rest of the world is achieving 5G coverage).

[DickFarang]

O.T.O.P

Is actually a Japanese inspired project that has been running in Japan for a number of years, indeed there is nothing new under the sun.

Regarding the actions of AIS and TOT . Typical of the big company mindset, the consumers will put up with what we give them, not want they want or expect.

Here as elsewhere, it's all about money, who is going to pay the most, however that money is not going into the states coffers if you get my drift !!!!

IMHO, OTOP means “one tambon, one product”.

It is a kind of a quality label for local products, such as Thai wines.

[deshotel]

I am wondering how the AIS 3G internet coverage in Chonburi will be effected?

AIS does not have 3G in BKK but does in HuaHin, Chonburi and ChaingMai on the 900Mhz band. Please leave the band (900Mhz -2100Mhz argument to the many other threads on that subject).

PS, What is 'OTOP' in the previous post?

All I can say is I wish AIS 3G was not the only option in Chonburi, Service, just trying to get an honest answer out of them is like flying to the moon. Very frustrating.

PS, What is 'OTOP' in the previous post? Means ONE TAMBON ONE PRODUCT

[bangon04]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

Seems many on this site love to Thai Bash...

I do business with many Thai's and most are very pleasant and easy to deal with, but it also depends on how you act towards them...

Well in this particular example of business relationships, where most of the players are presumably Thai, do you feel that they are displaying the very best quality of customer care and service?? Or do you get the image of snouts in the trough grunting and ignoring the rest?

[nithisa78]

Clueless poo yais playing hardball over their profits,

and the little guys who pay their way, get to pay for NOTHING.

[tawon]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

Why is it all you foreigners come to this country and do nothing but complain endlessly? Is your home country so much better? If so than go home as oppoesed to matyring yourself in someone elses country. I don;t believe any of you compulsive whiners were forced to remain at gunpoint, were you????

Enough is enough.

[khaowong1]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

Seems many on this site love to Thai Bash...

I do business with many Thai's and most are very pleasant and easy to deal with, but it also depends on how you act towards them...

I'm sorry you feel this way Rainmon.. I don't think it's so much about Thai bashing as it is about how far behind the times is practically everything in Thailand. In Thailand, it's always about saving face, in the rest of the known world, it's about giving the consumers what they want or giving what the companies think they want. The saving face part prohibits them (Thai companies - Thai government) from asking for outside help in solving any problems. Steven Jobs, Bill Gates, T. Boone Pickens, all the biggie innovators all say the same thing.. pick the brains of people who know what their doing, the experts. They didn't get where they are without outside help.

[Bizz]

Customer always comes last

GET REAL MAN this ain't Europe or US.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Children in real life, children in business, how i find a lot of Thais

Seems many on this site love to Thai Bash...

I do business with many Thai's and most are very pleasant and easy to deal with, but it also depends on how you act towards them...

I'm sorry you feel this way Rainmon.. I don't think it's so much about Thai bashing as it is about how far behind the times is practically everything in Thailand. In Thailand, it's always about saving face, in the rest of the known world, it's about giving the consumers what they want or giving what the companies think they want. The saving face part prohibits them (Thai companies - Thai government) from asking for outside help in solving any problems. Steven Jobs, Bill Gates, T. Boone Pickens, all the biggie innovators all say the same thing.. pick the brains of people who know what their doing, the experts. They didn't get where they are without outside help.

absolutely agree with this... I love it here - partly because they are children in many respects

[jfchandler]

I'd like someone to explain how mobile phone service "roaming" works here in Thailand, among the major mobile companies...

Back in the U.S., roaming means your own company doesn't have service in a particular area, so your phone automatically switches to the network of another provider that does (that being one that has a financial agreement with your provider) and you the customer end up paying higher rates/extra charges on your bill for the roaming minutes, because they're not part of your basic monthly service with your home provider.

Here in Thailand, at various times, I've used the mobile services of all three of the major providers... True, DTAC and AIS/GSM. But at those times when I've been out of the service area of whatever provider's SIM I was using at the time, it meant simply I didn't get mobile service there. I can't ever recall having a DTAC or TRUE SIM, being in a location out of their service area, and having my phone switch over to the AIS network...or any other provider's.

If I didn't have an account/paid service with a particular company, I didn't have access to their network... So what does mobile "roaming" mean here???

[Bilqis]

AIS - who have time and again revealed they have no interest in their customers sem to be using this as a punchball.

How will my 3G internet be affected????

I am really baffled by your comment. AIS is recognized as probably the best run company in all of Thailand. They have the highest rated customer service organization. This included all the industries with end user customer services.

What specifically is your problem that the rest of the world doesn't see? I, for one, am very satisfied in every way with the service provided by AIS. I have been an AIS customer for over 10 years. I would be interested in what your problems are.

It sounds more like government trying to interfere with private enterprise.

Regards,

sponsored by AIS

i have been dealing with their 3G internet service and apart from being potentially the most expensive in the world! they have failed to keep my service running 4 months in a row - they simple have no customer service, have not thought out any aspect of how customers might use or top up and the new raters they are introducing are simple exorbitant.

I've had 2 meetings with management and they still haven't done a thing to sort out my problems - even the staff have quietly agreed with me that the service is appalling.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Bilqis

[grantbkk]

Does anyone here actually have TOT's mobile telephone service? I've lived here for more than seven years and do not know one single person who does not use AIS, DTAC or True Move.

IMHO we foreigners here sometimes set expectations too high. Remember, it has been only a short time since ATM's were considered little more than slot machines. Do you recall putting your ATM card in the slot and then the whirring noise began? Than feeling of butterflies in your stomach, anticipating the cash and hoping you got your card back? How quickly we forget. I mark my time here noting fewer electric outages than the year before. Can we really expect products and services in a developing country to be on par with developed ones?

Stress kills. If you don't have any expectations you will never be disappointed. You will also be struck by how many times you will be pleasantry surprised when you do get great products and services.

In this case if they actually do suspend voice connection services it will only be for a short time. It has happened before and it will happen again. It will always work out in the end. I went to graduate school with some of these lettered politicians in the US. For some reason they only showed up for the first day and the last day of the course. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why business seems often to be run by petulant children just looking for their pot of gold in every transaction.

[CWMcMurray]

In the OP it said that TOT has a data capacity of 400 megabits per second and AIS has requested 375 megabits per second ....

This means that AIS is trying to demand that TOT hand over 93.75% of all the data capacity? How could TOT possibly accept this and still have anyhting left over for their own customers?

[LivinLOS]

I am really baffled by your comment. AIS is recognized as probably the best run company in all of Thailand. They have the highest rated customer service organization. This included all the industries with end user customer services.

What specifically is your problem that the rest of the world doesn't see? I, for one, am very satisfied in every way with the service provided by AIS. I have been an AIS customer for over 10 years. I would be interested in what your problems are.

That AIS has no 3G network !!!!

Just because you have low / 3rd world expectations doesnt mean we all do.

[LivinLOS]

It is a kind of a quality label for local products, such as Thai wines.

Ha ha ha.. Wonderful irony..

[LivinLOS]

If I understand the OP correctly.. AIS will drop all TOT mobile customers from roaming on its network ??

But who has TOT mobile service ?? I didnt even know one existed.. Does it come under another brand name ??

If that is the correct understanding, who does this actually effect ?? Almost no one ??

[Bilqis]

AIS has a 3G network - it is very limited and they simply can't be bothered with it.

It is all tied up in politics and as soon as DTAC move in they will be unable to compete - so at present they are gouging prices and don't even have a full top up and balnce service, they haven't even bothered to work out how their customers should top up!!!!!!

[Bilqis]

The logic is simple if you buy something you expect it to work within reason

i.E. a car would have 4 wheels

bread would be edible

3G would connect you to the internet at something the speed they claim and you'd be able to top it up.....and no surcharges of over 15 times the rate you agreed.

[MJo]

AIS, DTAC and True all have small 3G trial networks running in limited areas.

I.e. AIS is running their trial at 900MHz which is the same frequency than their 2G voice. They have very few base stations in CM and some other areas.

So they do not have anything that could be considered as network able to provide 3G service same way as they do for 2G. So do not expect seamless 3G experience and service from any of them. It is simply just not there.

It is what it is for the simple reason that NTC has not been allowed to issue licences for 2100MHz frequency commonly used for 3G. Reasons behind this are not because they are childs or that someone is losing face. It's simply about money and money alone. TOT and CAT has concession agreements with all the private telcos dating back to the time when 2G GSM was built. And those agreements are real money spinners for TOT and CAT. So the moment private telcos open 3G networks and transfer subscribers under them, the revenue generated is not covered by these old contracts and both TOT and CAT are going out of business.

Now TOT just went and build network on 2100MHz. Something the others are not able to do since the licences are not issued. Not sure why the same rules are not being applied to TOT but they just went and built several hundreds of base stations all around Bangkok and planning few thousands more all over the country.

My bet is that once TOT has nationwide coverage and strong enough subscriber base build as government monopoly, they allow the other players in and issue licences. This might take years taking into account TOT's appalling track record in implementing projects and capasity to their networks.

[Bilqis]

seamless???

Doesn't even approach it!

the coverage is not the problem either I am well aware of that - what is so disappointing is the complete failure to supply - despite their claims - a service that is useable - if they claim it to be it should within reasonable limits function as they say - the truth is and I'm backed up by AIS technicians here - they really haven;'t thought it through, you are unable to top-up in a satisfactory way and the a/c - is worked out not on GB or monthly whichever comes sooner but once your GB is up they disconnect you. They then claim your account is finished and try to put you on a more expensive rate. - there is of course no way to check this or the amount you have used.

Even when I pre-pay the money is never credited to my account - Telewiz have no idea whatsoever about the account and fail to top it up they even tried to charge VAT on a VAT inclusive deal- the only way I can continue the service is to go into the AIS office in advance and then again when I've been cut off.

You can't even buy top -up card to the values required, help line haven't got a clue - they have received no training or information, they do however charge for the phone calls, they do ring back when they have to go and ask for assistance. I would say on average topping up every month takes about 8 to 12 hours plus at least or or sometimes two trips to they office

[MJo]

seamless???

Doesn't even approach it!

the coverage is not the problem either I am well aware of that - what is so disappointing is the complete failure to supply - despite their claims - a service that is useable - if they claim it to be it should within reasonable limits function as they say - the truth is and I'm backed up by AIS technicians here - they really haven;'t thought it through, you are unable to top-up in a satisfactory way and the a/c - is worked out not on GB or monthly whichever comes sooner but once your GB is up they disconnect you. They then claim your account is finished and try to put you on a more expensive rate. - there is of course no way to check this or the amount you have used.

Even when I pre-pay the money is never credited to my account - Telewiz have no idea whatsoever about the account and fail to top it up they even tried to charge VAT on a VAT inclusive deal- the only way I can continue the service is to go into the AIS office in advance and then again when I've been cut off.

You can't even buy top -up card to the values required, help line haven't got a clue - they have received no training or information, they do however charge for the phone calls, they do ring back when they have to go and ask for assistance. I would say on average topping up every month takes about 8 to 12 hours plus at least or or sometimes two trips to they office

It is what it is. A trial service.

They have allocated narrow band from their 900MHz licence used on 2G and have set up couple of base stations with minimum capasity to test it out. In Chiang Mai they had capasity to handle around 3000 subscribers with limited speeds when they started the trial and i'm not aware that they have added anything since.

If you then believe their marketing hype and expect to get usable wireless broadband dream on...