Credibility Gap Now Too Wide For Chavalit To Bridge

[webfact]

Credibility gap now too wide for Chavalit to bridge

Published on February 7, 2010

Retired general has only himself to blame if events have overtaken his stated intentions

BANGKOK -- If anything, a political leader having to come out and deny that he will be leading a "People's Army" just shows how absurd Thai politics has become. Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, a retired general, didn't have a choice, though, because claims that he was about to lead an armed offshoot of the red-shirted movement were not made by his enemies, but rather those close to Thaksin Shinawatra. Chavalit simply had to douse the fire before it destroyed his whole reputation.

He had been playing with that fire. It remains fresh in everyone's mind that the Thai-Cambodian diplomatic row over Thaksin was sparked by Chavalit's meeting with Cambodian leader Hun Sen. The tension that was created and lasts until today has eroded Thaksin's popularity but Chavalit largely got away with it. It wouldn't have been the case if Chavalit hadn't come out so quickly to deny the shocking claims made by obscure red-shirt agitators Panlop Pinmanee and Maj-General Khattiya "Seh Daeng" Sawasdipol.

In a telephone interview on Wednesday, Panlop said that the red shirts, with Thaksin's blessing, had agreed to form the new armed wing and that Chavalit would lead the red shirts to victory. In the same interview, Khattiya said the organisational structure of the opposition movement was now complete with Pheu Thai as the party, the red shirts as its front and the new unit as its armed force. Many are reminded by that structure of the communist insurgency during the Cold War.

Panlop and Khattiya both warned that the government had until the end of this month to negotiate a settlement with Thaksin or risk facing an eruption of violence that even Thaksin could not control. In another interview on Thursday, Khattiya, when asked if Thaksin had a timeframe in mind for a political comeback, replied: "He gave Big Jiew [Chavalit] one year".

So, despite Chavalit's insistence that he agreed to take on the top advisory role at the Pheu Thai Party in order to prevent violence from happening, he ended up having to defend himself against criticism that his political comeback has brought about anything but peace and confidence. And while he can blame Panlop and Khattiya for the "People's Army" controversy, he could not fault anyone but himself for the Cambodian shame.

If "peace" was actually his main mission when he agreed to return to politics, he has failed. In fact, all his other stated objectives have either faded away or met little progress - to help solve the deep South problem, to help improve Thailand's relations with its neighbours, and to prove that Thaksin and his hardcore followers were loyal to the monarchy.

Such a noble agenda, if it ever existed, slipped away from Chavalit a long time ago. He is at best a befuddled veteran losing control left and right and playing into the hands of political rivals, or at worst a man on an obscure mission whose trustworthiness is unravelling.

The Democrats have jumped on the "People's Army" issue as well amid speculation that Thaksin might join Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen on a tour of the Preah Vihear Temple yesterday. Both issues were farfetched to differing degrees, but the ruling party managed to capitalise on them thanks to Chavalit's credibility problems and Thais' distrust of Cambodia that Thaksin and Chavalit helped provoke.

In the end, Chavalit knows best why he has to come out to deny ridiculous allegations. He's paying not for his failure to live up to his promises but for being largely responsible for his roles in events that mocked his pledges. And he can't blame the public if it chose to believe the improbable stories more than him.

-- The Nation 2010-02-07

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[RKASA]

It is strange that this General Khattiya can run so much a mock without worry. Does he not have an assignment or a boss that calls him to the carpet. Any General in most armies that carried on like this would be doing KP duty as a slick sleeve private by now. His status would be found some where near to whale crap. and who's side is he really on. Action being loader then words it would seem this much freedom is given a handy man.

Edited February 7, 2010 by RKASA

[Insight]

It is strange that this General Khattiya can run so much a mock without worry. Does he not have an assignment or a boss that calls him to the carpet. Any General in most armies that carried on like this would be doing KP duty as a slick sleeve private by now. His status would be found some where near to whale crap. and who's side is he really on. Action being loader then words it would seem this much freedom is given a handy man.

If he was locked up some of the redshirts who preach non-violence could probably get some sleep at night.

Which is probably the reason he isn't.

[scorecard]

Quote from original story:

"In a telephone interview on Wednesday, Panlop said that the red shirts, with Thaksin's blessing, had agreed to form the new armed wing and that Chavalit would lead the red shirts to victory. In the same interview, Khattiya said the organisational structure of the opposition movement was now complete with Pheu Thai as the party, the red shirts as its front and the new unit as its armed force. Many are reminded by that structure of the communist insurgency during the Cold War."

This also reminds of the very dangerous and very undesireable political scenario in the Philllipines where many local politicians have a private army and can get away with mass murder and massive serious intimidation and manipulation of the local populations, etc.

In other words there are numerous areas of the Phillipines which are simply lawless. The police have absolutely no control whatever, the local thug politicians and their private army control the police, and same for the regular army, they are under the same control.

What's is even more worrying is how to stop this scenario and regain control of the law as it should be. A very very difficult job, needing a new president which a totally different mindset and many years of serious work and probably many lives lost in gun battles etc.

In Chiang Mai the thin edge of this wedge is already happening. Frightening to say the least.

Thaksin / the udd / the red shirts try to tell us that they are the champions of democracy, therefore believe strongly in total respect for the rule of law. In the next breath they talk about private armies etc. They lose more credibility (not that they ever had any anyway) by the minute.

Chavalit is now seriously at risk of going down in history, in the final analysis of his life, as a fool.

Edited February 7, 2010 by scorecard

[hammered]

Those on the peaceful side of PTP/red and those on the more direct route side are disagreeing on tactics. With little time left before the asset case comes to conclusion Thaksin may well be siding with those advocating more direct action.

One of Thai Rath's op-ed writers who normally favours PTP claimed they were close to losing the politcal battle and we should expect something to change quickly although I think he was talking about Thaksin trying to do a deal with the coalition allies. That route now seems closed. It doesnt leave a lot of options unless Thaksin is willing to see what happens in court and he clearly doesnt like his chances there.

[Artisi]

Did he ever have any credibility?

[animatic]

Yes, when was this gap EVER narrow for Kuhn C.

[RKASA]

Those on the peaceful side of PTP/red and those on the more direct route side are disagreeing on tactics. With little time left before the asset case comes to conclusion Thaksin may well be siding with those advocating more direct action.

One of Thai Rath's op-ed writers who normally favours PTP claimed they were close to losing the politcal battle and we should expect something to change quickly although I think he was talking about Thaksin trying to do a deal with the coalition allies. That route now seems closed. It doesnt leave a lot of options unless Thaksin is willing to see what happens in court and he clearly doesnt like his chances there.

His chances there closed with the coup, the time between has been just a disassociation tactic. The plan to take the wealth of that up start, started in certain board rooms years before. The only real misfortune for Thailand is it won't be happening to them as well.

[Gary A]

Did he ever have any credibility?

The best thing about telling the truth is that it's easier to remember what you said. Years ago, he was accused of having Alzheimer's because he couldn't remember from one day to the next what he had said. I doubt that has changed any.

[poleax]

"It remains fresh in everyones mind that the Thai Cambodian diplomatic row was sparked by Chavalit's meeting with Cambodia's leader Hun Sen"

This is not clear in my mind at all, and it is not clear in the minds of many.

Trying to lay the cause of this issue at the feet of Chavalit is both simplistic, and loaded with political agenda.

What 'remains fresh' in everyones mind is the nature of the PAD and their Govtl. sympathisers. The PAD is an ultra-nationalist, ultra-Conservative group. For people of that political mindset, border problems are helpful, and even worth instigating. Border disputes are their "political bread and butter"

This border dispute has several causational tentacles, most of which were geared to demonize Thaksin. You may recall that Abhist and the PAD tried to get this disputed land returned which had belonged to Cambodia since 2505. They even accused Thaksin of seeking to exchange it for oilfield rights under the sea in a buffer zone.

It was an out-and-out attack on their political opposition and the Democracy Movement by extension. They calculated that they could make "political hay" from 'fanning these nationalist flames". This is typical of political movements such as the PAD.

Whenever there is a disputatious border affair, look to the PAD and their friends for causality first. that is their "stock in trade".

To focus this on Chavalit is just another spasm of this political thought, and as mentioned above, is both simplistic and loaded with political intentions.

Edited February 7, 2010 by poleax

[Insight]

Democracy Movement

[scorecard]

"It remains fresh in everyones mind that the Thai Cambodian diplomatic row was sparked by Chavalit's meeting with Cambodia's leader Hun Sen"

This is not clear in my mind at all, and it is not clear in the minds of many.

Trying to lay the cause of this issue at the feet of Chavalit is both simplistic, and loaded with political agenda.

What 'remains fresh' in everyones mind is the nature of the PAD and their Govtl. sympathisers. The PAD is an ultra-nationalist, ultra-Conservative group. For people of that political mindset, border problems are helpful, and even worth instigating. Border disputes are their "political bread and butter"

This border dispute has several causational tentacles, most of which were geared to demonize Thaksin. You may recall that Abhist and the PAD tried to get this disputed land returned which had belonged to Cambodia since 2505. They even accused Thaksin of seeking to exchange it for oilfield rights under the sea in a buffer zone.

It was an out-and-out attack on their political opposition and the Democracy Movement by extension. They calculated that they could make "political hay" from 'fanning these nationalist flames". This is typical of political movements such as the PAD.

Whenever there is a disputatious border affair, look to the PAD and their friends for causality first. that is their "stock in trade".

To focus this on Chavalit is just another spasm of this political thought, and as mentioned above, is both simplistic and loaded with political intentions.

Sorry, nice attempt at a diversion, but it doesn't work at all for me.

This thread is about Chavalits credibility, long gone, someone should careful, respectfully, guide him back to full retirement.

[animatic]

"It remains fresh in everyones mind that the Thai Cambodian diplomatic row was sparked by Chavalit's meeting with Cambodia's leader Hun Sen"

This is not clear in my mind at all....

What 'remains fresh' in everyones mind is the nature of the PAD and their Govtl. sympathisers. The PAD is an ultra-nationalist, ultra-Conservative group...

It was an out-and-out attack on their political opposition and the Democracy Movement by extension.

To focus this on Chavalit is just another spasm of this political thought, and as mentioned above, is both simplistic and loaded with political intentions.

Clearly a lack of clarity.

Since this so called 'Democracy Movement' overlay on a Puyai's manipulation of the people,

has fogged over common sense to the bigger picture.

So this attempt to change the argument from Chavalit being out of the loop § and out of control,

and his visiting Hun Sen and setting up the Thaksin visit, and then that whole charade of

manipulating the air traffic controllers mother and his politically loaded freeing was all PADS doing huh.?

From the moment Chavalit went to Cambodia relations tanked. Cause and effect.

Wow that REALLY twists the brain cells into over load mode.

PAD is the cause of Chavalits actions... amazing rational... or maybe irrational...

Spin like a T3 tornado. Or is it just general agitprop?

Now hear this from the Dept. Of Agitprop! Chavalit is a dup of PAD,

more later.

Ultra conservative and ultra nationalistic, and ultra anti 'policy corruption in government' too.

PAD is many things, and most of that is history for the present. They are barely relevant

except as a stalking horse against anti Thaksin thought. Which is transparent to all.

The whole of the nation is nationalistic it's one of the few glues holding the place together,

besides the main one.... So being very nationalistic in Thailand is not an odd thing to be.

Oh yes the opposition to your ways, only thinks about these points 'spasmodically',

not with considered opinion. Yes, try mightily to distract from the political intentions of

pointing out how Chavalit, has been used and abused by his own team of the moment,

and that he clearly is not up to the game and is playing catch up daily.

'No, No, Nooooo!!! I am NOT Supreme Commander...' I don't think I am; yada yada yada

No points made.

Edited February 7, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Democracy Movement

The only clear movement from that side is the movements of #2 in plasitc bags

to their enemies locations, and then aerial assaults with them.

Change the thread to something else.

Not likely, Chavalit is too good a laugh for that.

[CLOD]

Does chavalit have any credibility?

In view of the recent illegal Military Coup does any of the Military have any credibility?

And does the Military Junta appointed PM "abisit the abuser " have any credibility?

After all, this privaleged fellow was educated in the great democracy of england.

Abisit knows how electoral democracies work, abisit knows there is no room for Military coups in a democracy, Abisit knows there is no room for corruption in government, Abisit knows democracy comes from the ballot box.

Who knows the truth about the chavalit situation, but everybody knows the truth about the abisit situation.

The Human Rights Watch know it to.

[hammered]

Does chavalit have any credibility?

In view of the recent illegal Military Coup does any of the Military have any credibility?

And does the Military Junta appointed PM "abisit the abuser " have any credibility?

After all, this privaleged fellow was educated in the great democracy of england.

Abisit knows how electoral democracies work, abisit knows there is no room for Military coups in a democracy, Abisit knows there is no room for corruption in government, Abisit knows democracy comes from the ballot box.

Who knows the truth about the chavalit situation, but everybody knows the truth about the abisit situation.

The Human Rights Watch know it to.

Hey man you forgot to ditto in the Human Rights Watch knowing the truth about Thaksin too. Nice reports about extra-judicial killing there. It still gets raised on UK football forums too whenever unsuitable owners of clubs comes up. its uusally best to be even handed when bringing up HR stuff or it comes over as hypocritical or just propaganda.

[Ricardo]

Does chavalit have any credibility?

In view of the recent illegal Military Coup does any of the Military have any credibility?

And does the Military Junta appointed PM "abisit the abuser " have any credibility?

After all, this privaleged fellow was educated in the great democracy of england.

Abisit knows how electoral democracies work, abisit knows there is no room for Military coups in a democracy, Abisit knows there is no room for corruption in government, Abisit knows democracy comes from the ballot box.

Who knows the truth about the chavalit situation, but everybody knows the truth about the abisit situation.

The Human Rights Watch know it to.

Does Chavalit have any credibility, not very much these days, makes one wonder why the PTP were so happy to recruit him, if he seems to put his foot in his mouth, almost every time he opens it ? Are they really that desperate for credibility ?

Does 3 years and 5 months really count as 'recent' ?

Wasn't the Military Junta, and the junta-appointed government of PM-Surayud, dissolved a year before PM-Abhisit was elected to lead the current coalition-government ? So they couldn't have appointed anyone currently in office.

Then again perhaps Abhisit, while being "educated in the great democracy of england", learned to use a spell-checker to avoid saying words like "privaleged" when he means 'privileged', and to use a capital-letter to start the real-name of a country ?

I feel coffee-time coming-on.

[animatic]

Does chavalit have any credibility?

In view of the recent illegal Military Coup does any of the Military have any credibility?

And does the Military Junta appointed PM "abisit the abuser " have any credibility?

After all, this privaleged fellow was educated in the great democracy of england.

Abisit knows how electoral democracies work, abisit knows there is no room for Military coups in a democracy, Abisit knows there is no room for corruption in government, Abisit knows democracy comes from the ballot box.

Who knows the truth about the chavalit situation, but everybody knows the truth about the abisit situation.

The Human Rights Watch know it to.

Hey man you forgot to ditto in the Human Rights Watch knowing the truth about Thaksin too. Nice reports about extra-judicial killing there. It still gets raised on UK football forums too whenever unsuitable owners of clubs comes up. its uusally best to be even handed when bringing up HR stuff or it comes over as hypocritical or just propaganda.

Either Kuhn C. Hopper has forgotten which side he's slagging,

or word has come down that since Chavalit hasn't signed on

for the treason he was nominated for, he is now fair game for attack.

Either way it's pretty funny to watch the spin and counter spin. Eh Hammered?

"Abisit knows how electoral democracies work, abisit knows there is no room for Military coups in a democracy, Abisit knows there is no room for corruption in government, Abisit knows democracy comes from the ballot box."

Abhisit has worked within the Democrtatic system until he reached the top slot

and then has worked within the system.

Abhist got his act together and has worked to prevent further coups from ANY side.

Abhisit has cut loose any Dems or others in his coalition who are charge with Corruption,

rather than try to hang on in office till forced out. Sounds like diminished tolerance of corruption.

And Abhisit knows he is PM because the Minsters of Parliament

put his name on their ballots when the voted for PM last time.

[Samuian]

It is strange that this General Khattiya can run so much a mock without worry. Does he not have an assignment or a boss that calls him to the carpet. Any General in most armies that carried on like this would be doing KP duty as a slick sleeve private by now. His status would be found some where near to whale crap. and who's side is he really on. Action being loader then words it would seem this much freedom is given a handy man.

Panlop?

It's the old "Pu Yai" system, he has someone's protective hand hovering over him if this goes, he's history!