Correlation Between Westernisation And Bad Attitudes.

[whistleblower]

99% of the time when someone is complaining about unfriendly Thais it's most likely they did something to warrant that type of reaction. If you have a pleasant relaxed demeanor and never raise your voice you'll probably end up alright. Your average farang walks around with hunched shoulders, a smirk, and an aggressive attitude which (not surprisingly) repulses Thai people.

In other words, "if your ok with putting up with crap service and getting the this is thailand attitude" you will be a much happier farang in thailand.

And to the posters who put "this is Thailand and if you spoke Thai to them you would get better treatment blah blah blah" utter crap!!!! We know its Thailand, we know its a different language etc. If a certain segment of Thais (tourist areas) actually got off their asses and learnt the odd english/japanese word or , they might get a higher tourist return rate!

Remember any Thai that works for 7/11, macdonalds KFC etc HAS to have at least a high school diploma.

If a Thai cant fathom "chicken burger and chips" with a high school diploma then the education system over here really is shot to pieces!!!!!!

(Oh and all the menus in these fast food joints are in English!!!!) But just to keep the Thai huggers on here happy.......... how do you order a Bic Mac meal in Thai??????????

[SeanMoran]

99% of the time when someone is complaining about unfriendly Thais it's most likely they did something to warrant that type of reaction. If you have a pleasant relaxed demeanor and never raise your voice you'll probably end up alright. Your average farang walks around with hunched shoulders, a smirk, and an aggressive attitude which (not surprisingly) repulses Thai people.

In other words, "if your ok with putting up with crap service and getting the this is thailand attitude" you will be a much happier farang in thailand.

And to the posters who put "this is Thailand and if you spoke Thai to them you would get better treatment blah blah blah" utter crap!!!! We know its Thailand, we know its a different language etc. If a certain segment of Thais (tourist areas) actually got off their asses and learnt the odd english/japanese word or , they might get a higher tourist return rate!

Remember any Thai that works for 7/11, macdonalds KFC etc HAS to have at least a high school diploma.

If a Thai cant fathom "chicken burger and chips" with a high school diploma then the education system over here really is shot to pieces!!!!!!

(Oh and all the menus in these fast food joints are in English!!!!) But just to keep the Thai huggers on here happy.......... how do you order a Bic Mac meal in Thai??????????

Thank you and if I can balance this excellent argument back on topic. the op (myself) speaks enougo pasa Thai to order a KFC meal politely, and for all the illness over the past month, still manages to raise a smile at the counter, and I believe I am fairly neutral as a customer, but I notice a very great change between the weekday staff who are competent, and know me well, and the part time weekend staff who don't, and moreover, it strikes me that unfamiliarity with their job might allow for some kindof innate xenophobia to manifest during those part-time working hours, and maybe that is why the same place that is great throughout the week becomes useless on weekends when the xenophobika of part-time staff at KFC in Tesco-Lotus becomes prevalent.

[PeaceBlondie]

Repeating seven years of full-time living in Thailand: my best service was by Thais who served me Western food, The worst was by Thais who served me crappy Thai food.

[Slaps]

Have you seen the time Sean, getting late mate

[SeanMoran]

Have you seen the time Sean, getting late mate

Norn laab faan dee maak, mate.

See you tomorrow.

[Birdman]

99% of the time when someone is complaining about unfriendly Thais it's most likely they did something to warrant that type of reaction. If you have a pleasant relaxed demeanor and never raise your voice you'll probably end up alright. Your average farang walks around with hunched shoulders, a smirk, and an aggressive attitude which (not surprisingly) repulses Thai people.

In other words, "if your ok with putting up with crap service and getting the this is thailand attitude" you will be a much happier farang in thailand.

And to the posters who put "this is Thailand and if you spoke Thai to them you would get better treatment blah blah blah" utter crap!!!! We know its Thailand, we know its a different language etc. If a certain segment of Thais (tourist areas) actually got off their asses and learnt the odd english/japanese word or , they might get a higher tourist return rate!

Remember any Thai that works for 7/11, macdonalds KFC etc HAS to have at least a high school diploma.

If a Thai cant fathom "chicken burger and chips" with a high school diploma then the education system over here really is shot to pieces!!!!!!

(Oh and all the menus in these fast food joints are in English!!!!) But just to keep the Thai huggers on here happy.......... how do you order a Bic Mac meal in Thai??????????

Who says authentic Westerns standards are appreciated here?

Just don't expect that anymore and therefore minimise the stress or go on with the crusader's attitude to prepare the locals for future generations of less conflict.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Birdman

[PeaceBlondie]

I live in a different Thailand. Bake and Bite in CMai serves the world's best Western sandwiches. Worst service is a burger chain in Texas. Best burgers are made in Texas by Thais. Worst Thai service is Thai food served by Thais.

[Gaccha]

To answer the OP's question:

The latest issue of the British and International Journal of Politics argues that the considerably improved civic behaviour of the Taiwanese is down to the introduction of democracy, a Western concept. So I would anticipate the Western influence can be expected to create great improvement in the civic behaviour of Thais: less spitting, more carrying of other people's luggage, queuing.

I think you need to remember that a large percentage of the staff at KFC are from the sticks and have simply not been raised to become the docile, productive citizen that is Mr Moran.

[phetaroi]

America refers to two continents on the west of the Atlantic or the east of the Pacific, depending on which side of Africa you're posting from. I like to think of it as named by Amerigo Vespucci, but that's debateable. Now there are over 40 American countries, but it's good to know that all your Argeninian American friends have had enough tv to learn how to be polite in the face of ignorant foreigners.

<typos galore>

Yup...that's the attitude that's getting you in trouble at KFC.

[Richb2004v2]

I've met Sean briefly and what ever his faults he didn't strike me as the kind of guy to make trouble with Thais, or even be difficult. In fact quite the opposite. He seems more likely to be extra accommodating with them. You only need to read his thread on his motorbike purchase to see that. To me Sean may have been a little ripped off with is bike but he still didn't have a bad word to say about the seller. I could be wrong but I don't see him being anything but courteous in the KFC. Just my opinion.

[Finlaco]

Sean which part of Thailand? Is it perhaps a store that regularly deals with farang and their Madame Esan?

Imagine working at KFC earning ฿28 per hour and constantly dealing with ....

My own experience is that we have to over compensate when dealing with Thai staff and we have to be polite. Eg Nong Krap, as oppossed to a Thai that will usually say 'nong nong'. it's not right but it's life. Perhaps they are bored dealing with loso farang acting high so with their loso gf/bf.

But I agree that food on the street is nearly always with a smile especially if u order in Thai and like me are fussy wrt ingredients. I nearly always get a laugh cos I can't eat garlic but like it spicy. The big difference is one is owner managed the other a big chain.

[Finlaco]

I've met Sean briefly and what ever his faults he didn't strike me as the kind of guy to make trouble with Thais, or even be difficult. In fact quite the opposite. He seems more likely to be extra accommodating with them. You only need to read his thread on his motorbike purchase to see that. To me Sean may have been a little ripped off with is bike but he still didn't have a bad word to say about the seller. I could be wrong but I don't see him being anything but courteous in the KFC. Just my opinion.

I think maybe the posters who get personal are just trawling. I read the op and although I didn't agree 100% with his sentiments, I didn't get the feeling he was rude.

[Tejas]

I never had a problem at a dozen KFC's. Or McDonand's, Mister Donut, pizza chains, Burger King, Subways, etc, in Thailand. Never got my order right in 40 years in Texas. S&P was consistently lousy.

Always got my order right 100% of the time in Texas........we sure seem to have lived in different places. I am from the Nation of Texas. Unfortunately surrounded by a rotten place called the USA.

Anyway, staff training, like another posted pointed out, is an issue (e.g., two Subways near Khao San.........one has great service and the other has the worst service I have encountered in Thailand........right by each other).

I think people are hurting economically.........the level of stress has increased dramatically........things have gotten much worse over the past ten years for lots of people.........and xenophobia has increased dramatically in Thailand.

I think a good economic climate fosters good behavior (in general).

When people are under stress, it is hard for them to feel good and treat people properly.

Which brings me to another factor..........this is a new generation........spoiled to the core and filled with false hopes and dreams and bad thoughts about foreigners.

Way too many have been taught, it seems, to avoid any personal blame/responsibility and point fingers at outsiders for everything.

[PeaceBlondie]

I never had a problem at a dozen KFC's. Or McDonand's, Mister Donut, pizza chains, Burger King, Subways, etc, in Thailand. Never got my order right in 40 years in Texas. S&P was consistently lousy.

Always got my order right 100% of the time in Texas........we sure seem to have lived in different places. I am from the Nation of Texas. Unfortunately surrounded by a rotten place called the USA.

It's the burger chain from Corpus Christi that messes up 90% of the time. I avoid it. Frontier/McDonald/BurgerKing/DairyQueen was fine. The Thai-owned Texas Hamburger Palace was best, on Ranchester.

[Ijustwannateach]

A lot of the foreigners here are... well, 'special', would be the polite word. You can see it in terms of forum behaviour, certainly, and unusually you can even observe quite a lot of blatant rudeness and antisocial behaviour among the foreigners here that would never pass in their own countries. The worst parts of any jobs I've had in Thailand have been dealing with any other foreigners involved, though that is a minor part of most of my work- it's hard to imagine dealing with those types full time!

I would agree with many others that it's only in the tourist world and its margins (such as foreign business franchises in tourist zones) that I have often (but not always) had any bad experiences with Thai staff and workers.

[bkkjames]

A lot of the foreigners here are... well, 'special', would be the polite word. You can see it in terms of forum behaviour, certainly, and unusually you can even observe quite a lot of blatant rudeness and antisocial behaviour among the foreigners here that would never pass in their own countries. The worst parts of any jobs I've had in Thailand have been dealing with any other foreigners involved, though that is a minor part of most of my work- it's hard to imagine dealing with those types full time!

I would agree with many others that it's only in the tourist world and its margins (such as foreign business franchises in tourist zones) that I have often (but not always) had any bad experiences with Thai staff and workers.

Interestingly mine has been the exact opposite to your experience.

Things like unreliability, doing things according to local time and the ever present mai pen rai attitude are locally-inherited barriers and not by-products of westernization.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I admit with tongue-in-cheek that foreign teachers are likely to be even more special than the average foreigner here!!!

[IanForbes]

Speaking of fast foods... I go into one of two Thai cafes where I like to dine for a Thai meal of Kow Padt gai or Kai tee ow. It takes a maximum of 5 minutes between the time I order and time the meal arrives at my table. Very often it's more like 3 or 4 minutes. And, because I give them 40 baht for what the Thais pay 30 baht, I get an extra large portion and a great big smile. It kind of detracts me away from paying 100 baht for a KFC or McDonalds meal that's not nearly as good or as nourishing. I'm going to miss those smiles in a month when I go back to Canada.

[whistleblower]

A lot of the foreigners here are... well, 'special', would be the polite word. You can see it in terms of forum behaviour, certainly, and unusually you can even observe quite a lot of blatant rudeness and antisocial behaviour among the foreigners here that would never pass in their own countries. The worst parts of any jobs I've had in Thailand have been dealing with any other foreigners involved, though that is a minor part of most of my work- it's hard to imagine dealing with those types full time!

I would agree with many others that it's only in the tourist world and its margins (such as foreign business franchises in tourist zones) that I have often (but not always) had any bad experiences with Thai staff and workers.

Interestingly mine has been the exact opposite to your experience.

Things like unreliability, doing things according to local time and the ever present mai pen rai attitude are locally-inherited barriers and not by-products of westernization.

I totally disagree! I have never seen a drunk Thai in Thailand, I have never seen a Thai dropping litter, spitting in the street, picking their toes in a restaurant, i have never seen a Thai taxi driver open his door at the traffic light and cough up a big greeny and deposit it on the street. Thais always queue, they always let the people get out of the skytrain/lift before entering, they always step to the side of an escalator before they decide to take out their mobiles and call their friends.

I have met polite Thais and polite Westerners. I have met some very rude Thais and some very rude westerners.

But one thing i firmly believe is that Thais on the whole are no good at customer service. For a country that relies on tourism hugely i am surprised at this.

I also find it quite amusing that the "Thai huggers" on this site who always leap to their defense over any criticism have never met an unfriendly/rude etc Thai, but find every westerner they come into contact with totally repulsive!

[Ijustwannateach]

I doubt you will interest anyone in your arguments if you exaggerate others' positions with words like 'all' and 'none' when it is clear that our posts had no such implications.

[Latindancer]

I notice a very great change between the weekday staff who are competent, and know me well, and the part time weekend staff who don't

I don't suppose you might have also been a little more inebriated on the weekend ?

Edited March 4, 2010 by Latindancer

[SeanMoran]

I notice a very great change between the weekday staff who are competent, and know me well, and the part time weekend staff who don't

I don't suppose you might have been a little more inebriated on the weekend ?

I certainly was last night, mid-week, but good luck came my way today when I made the ride back to the old village in Mabkha and the same little minimart that I've fallen in love with over the past five years still has the Chang Lite cans in stock, so I bought a carton and strapped it to the back of the bike to bring home, and requested that I should return on Sunday for another carton of the good stuff. It makes such a difference drinking the Lite to the Classic when I'm sitting here in this room all afternoon and into the night for hours, and tend to go through one can every hour.

As an example of the opposite side to this thread's coin, the good attitudes that seem quite prevalent in the local villages if you stay out of the 711 stores, I went for an haircut at my favourite hairdresser in the whole wide world, and got it, with a shampoo and a nice gentle head massage thrown in for good measure.

Then the other objective was a trip to the pharmacy for a top-up of the prednisolone pills that keep me breathing at night without nocturnal asthma episodes. I've knon the pharmacist for almost five years now, and have lost count of the number of ventolins I've bought from him over that time, and the drug store was empty and he asked me where I was living now, and put up with my kindergarten standard of pasa Thai, and loo and behold!, he went to the shelf and got me another ventolin, and gifted it me for free, out of the kindness in his heart.

I bought a ventolin for my room cleaner's daughter the other day, as they're around 200 baht and they don't pay the staff that much in cheap hotels like this. The young girl got her ventolin free from a kind doctor at first, as she's asthmatic apparently, so I bought a replacement in case the first one runs short at 200 squirts. Then my favourite pharmacist somehow had the urge to gift me a free ventolin today. Tell me there's no such thing as Karma?

The village in question is VERY unwesternised, unlike here in Ban Chang, where it's tailor made to be almost like back home in farangland.

[MrRichard2009]

To say that because the elevator is a western invention, grumpy people in elevators were caused by the western world, is one of the most far reaching attempts to blame the west for something I have ever heard. ....

[SeanMoran]

To say that because the elevator is a western invention, grumpy people in elevators were caused by the western world, is one of the most far reaching attempts to blame the west for something I have ever heard. ....

Not at all. I am referring to the cross-cultural issues, where westernisation might cause confusion and frustration to people who's whose parents never taught them how to press the button on an elevator, and then stand aside until the door opens, and anyone in that elevator who is getting out leaves, before barging in.

It's the same with trains at stations, and even the automatic doors at the 711 store, but we seem to have graduated to the KFC counter most of all in this thread.

<ed: silly spelling error>

Edited March 4, 2010 by SeanMoran

[MrRichard2009]

I'm sorry but it IS far reaching, of all the grumpy people you seem to have met in elevators, do you really think, they can't figure out how it works was the reason for even one of them to be grumpy ? Of all the people you meet in 7-11 that were grumpy, how many really couldn't get the automatic door to open! rofl

[SeanMoran]

I'm sorry but it IS far reaching, of all the grumpy people you seem to have met in elevators, do you really think, they can't figure out how it works was the reason for even one of them to be grumpy ? Of all the people you meet in 7-11 that were grumpy, how many really couldn't get the automatic door to open! rofl

This was what I wrote back then:

Elevators are another one. It's not a natural way of life in Thailand to get into a lift at the push of a button, and that's another western invention for which perhaps there just aren't any innate manners for someone whose parents knew how to walk up and down stairs.

What are you feeling grumpy about?

[ozzieovaseas]

I find it peculiar how people who have spent time in Thailand still hold onto this expectation of getting the same sort of "service" they would expect in western countries..whatever that is..

Also i might suggest that these relatively unimportant occurances might often be excerbated by us farangs who get a little carried away with our own importance

When i first spent time in LOS i was a very sensitive soul and would be offended daily by this sort of seeming neglect, lack of appreciation and down right abuse of my patrionage.Thailand by default is a good place to loose this small minded thinking. In time i would realise i am but one amongst millions who pass this way daily and a dose of reality was learnt thai style..

In this case it IS what it is...a takeaway joint,

you go there to get ..... whatever ghai

you order...the employee gets it for you...you pay...and the transcation is done.

If the little pooying is a tad unattentive all it takes is a discreet sawadeecrap to wake them from their comic book dreams

The whole thing need take no more than a few minutes actually, not as if your visiting the stockbroker!

If your after handshakes,accolades and ego massages then nana plaza has all that in abundance

Oh, and as a bonus you can expect to be showered with various compliments and EXPECT to be called hansum man

[SeanMoran]

I find it peculiar how people who have spent time in Thailand still hold onto this expectation of getting the same sort of "service" they would expect in western countries..whatever that is..

Also i might suggest that these relatively unimportant occurances might often be excerbated by us farangs who get a little carried away with our own importance

When i first spent time in LOS i was a very sensitive soul and would be offended daily by this sort of seeming neglect, lack of appreciation and down right abuse of my patrionage.Thailand by default is a good place to loose this small minded thinking. In time i would realise i am but one amongst millions who pass this way daily and a dose of reality was learnt thai style..

In this case it IS what it is...a takeaway joint,

you go there to get ..... whatever ghai

you order...the employee gets it for you...you pay...and the transcation is done.

If the little pooying is a tad unattentive all it takes is a discreet sawadeecrap to wake them from their comic book dreams

The whole thing need take no more than a few minutes actually, not as if your visiting the stockbroker!

If your after handshakes,accolades and ego massages then nana plaza has all that in abundance

Oh, and as a bonus you can expect to be showered with various compliments and EXPECT to be called hansum man

Okay then. It's all my fault.

[ozzieovaseas]

I find it peculiar how people who have spent time in Thailand still hold onto this expectation of getting the same sort of "service" they would expect in western countries..whatever that is..

Also i might suggest that these relatively unimportant occurances might often be excerbated by us farangs who get a little carried away with our own importance

When i first spent time in LOS i was a very sensitive soul and would be offended daily by this sort of seeming neglect, lack of appreciation and down right abuse of my patrionage.Thailand by default is a good place to loose this small minded thinking. In time i would realise i am but one amongst millions who pass this way daily and a dose of reality was learnt thai style..

In this case it IS what it is...a takeaway joint,

you go there to get ..... whatever ghai

you order...the employee gets it for you...you pay...and the transcation is done.

If the little pooying is a tad unattentive all it takes is a discreet sawadeecrap to wake them from their comic book dreams

The whole thing need take no more than a few minutes actually, not as if your visiting the stockbroker!

If your after handshakes,accolades and ego massages then nana plaza has all that in abundance

Oh, and as a bonus you can expect to be showered with various compliments and EXPECT to be called hansum man

Okay then. It's all my fault.

Ahhh dont be like that m888t,

khar tot krap if i was a little tough on ya But some of us expect a little more bite from you than that, ole mate

Maybe you havent had enough Chang tonight

Wish i could be over there to have me some..well LEO anyway

[Latindancer]

When i first spent time in LOS i was a very sensitive soul and would be offended daily by this sort of seeming neglect, lack of appreciation and down right abuse of my patrionage.Thailand by default is a good place to loose this small minded thinking. In time i would realise i am but one amongst millions who pass this way daily and a dose of reality was learnt thai style..

I must confess to feeling neglected this way by shop assistants/ owners in Thailand sometimes. But next time I have seen the people who I thought were almost grumpy, they treated me quite differently. So it wasn't me so much as just them having a bad or boring day.

I've also turned morose-looking people here into much happier souls by being happy / kind to them. Thai people are so "Sanook" oriented........they really respond to a bit of liveliness or happiness