Westerners With Amulets

[mizzi39]

Please explain

I think that we are all conditioned in the west to believe that hard work and education (alone) will produce positive results, but for most it comes down to who you know, and not what you know. Contacts and being at the right place at the right time is what produces results. Hard work and eduction are secondary.

I don't know where your from canuckamuck, but in the US this is the biggest myth of all. I (as well as people in my generation) grew up conditioned to this way of thinking until reality hit many years later. Having a strong constitution, resources,and resilience is what produces results.

Sure this discussion would be better left for another topic, so I apologize for being off topic.

[Tod Daniels]

It is my observation that there certainly seems to be no shortage of foreigners who wear amulets here. Sometimes I see people wearing 4 or 5; all in their nifty display holders, strung around their necks on giant chains. The weight of such a conglomeration is such that it appears to pull their heads down.

The mind wobbles at just how much luck they probably have. .. Oh that I was soo lucky and protected from everything from dog bites, moto-cy/car accidents, knife stabbings, the errant bullet, and the ever present yet rare chance of being struck by lightening or bitten by a great white shark.

It reminds me of the quartz crystal craze in the US many years ago. A friend asked what size to get so she would have luck, and my answer was; "To change your luck, you're gonna need to pull a frickin' wagon load of 'em around behind you."

If it floats your boat, knock yourself out. As long as the foreigners living here don't impinge in any way on my life or what I perceive my rights are, I usually ignore them anyway.

I concur that the Jatukam Ramathep talisman craze was indeed insane and you couldn't walk down the street or at a market without seeing tables of them.

Edited February 9, 2010 by tod-daniels

[canuckamuck]

Please explain

I think that we are all conditioned in the west to believe that hard work and education (alone) will produce positive results, but for most it comes down to who you know, and not what you know. Contacts and being at the right place at the right time is what produces results. Hard work and eduction are secondary.

I don't know where your from canuckamuck, but in the US this is the biggest myth of all. I (as well as people in my generation) grew up conditioned to this way of thinking until reality hit many years later. Having a strong constitution, resources,and resilience is what produces results.

Sure this discussion would be better left for another topic, so I apologize for being off topic.

Oh c'mon you missed it completely. I said

I think it is more responsible to show people you believe hard work and education brings better results than a piece of jewelry. But of course their are always those who believe the opposite.

You said that was a myth, so I assume you believe a piece of jewelry yields the best results. You can't start talking about things a strong constitution, resources,and resilience. Those are things that were achieved through hard work and education in other countries, and definitely not through lucky charms.

But I think there were a lot of lucky charms at play for the series of failed Thai constitutions of days gone by and for those to come as well.

[jdinasia]

I am betting a few pieces of jewelry, such as a lodge pin, a class ring, etc mean far more in many circles than hard work or actual education Edited February 9, 2010 by jdinasia

[GuestHouse]

Please explain

I think that we are all conditioned in the west to believe that hard work and education (alone) will produce positive results, but for most it comes down to who you know, and not what you know. Contacts and being at the right place at the right time is what produces results. Hard work and eduction are secondary.

I don't know where your from canuckamuck, but in the US this is the biggest myth of all. I (as well as people in my generation) grew up conditioned to this way of thinking until reality hit many years later. Having a strong constitution, resources,and resilience is what produces results.

Sure this discussion would be better left for another topic, so I apologize for being off topic.

So if you ever need to have open heart surgery, or a serious dental work you're going to opt for a guy with connections rather than an education and protect yourself with an amulet?

Yeh Right you are!

You are going to do what the rest of us do - Get the best educated and best trained surgeon, anesthetist and medical support staff you can find. Wear the amulet by all means, but its the medical staff, their education, training and skill that keep you alive on the operating table.

The 'Education Doesn't Matter' argument is only a salve for the realization that it does matter.

Edited February 9, 2010 by GuestHouse

[SeanMoran]

So if you ever need to have open heart surgery, or a serious dental work you're going to opt for a guy with connections rather than an education and protect yourself with an amulet?

Yeh Right you are!

You are going to do what the rest of us do - Get the best educated and best trained surgeon, anesthetist and medical support staff you can find. Wear the amulet by all means, but its the medical staff, their education, training and skill that keep you alive on the operating table.

The 'Education Doesn't Matter' argument is only a salve for the realization that it does matter.

I have a replacement saffron arm-band for HM the King. It reminds me of what wanke_rs I came across in the way of so-called 'educated' hospital staff back on February 17th 2008 in Australia who secretly code-blacked me (drugged me unconscious without consent) for TEN DAYS, and while they had my body to muck around with for their 'educated' medical experiments, they cut my wristband off me and threw it away.

I presented that Sunday night to borrow an oxygen mask because I had an asthma attack.

Now I've escaped that wretched country and have a new saffron amulet and am getting over the asthma slowly. The thought of what those 'educated' animals did to me is best not to think about if you want to breathe steadily.

Trust in the amulet.

[GuestHouse]

Now what was I saying about fruit cakes.

I'm asthmatic - tell me exactly how an amulet could help my asthma? And please, not the 'funneling the magic moonbeams' explanation.

[SeanMoran]

Now what was I saying about fruit cakes.

I'm asthmatic - tell me exactly how an amulet could help my asthma? And please, not the 'funneling the magic moonbeams' explanation.

Having a nocturnal asthma attack and driving to an hospital for the overnight use of an oxygen tank and a blood/oxy monitor for a few hours does not give that hospital the right to drug the patient unconscious, and then cut off their personal belongings to throw away. Now I wear this amulet to remind me what a disgrace the Australian public health service has become.

Okay?

[GuestHouse]

Well you and I suffer asthma, so we know how deadly it can be - They obviously got something right, because your still with us.

Would Oxygen alone have been enough?

I've had similar asthma attacks in several different countries and they have all resulted in me being given medication + oxygen.

My guess is the answer to your problem with the medical team who treated you is to find out why they gave you the treatment they did. Ranting about it on the internet and putting the whole of the Australian medical profession in the same basket because you haven't the answer to that question while proclaiming amulets will look after you..... QED.

[SeanMoran]

Well you and I suffer asthma, so we know how deadly it can be - They obviously got something right, because your still with us.

Would Oxygen alone have been enough?

I've had similar asthma attacks in several different countries and they have all resulted in me being given medication + oxygen.

My guess is the answer to your problem with the medical team who treated you is to find out why they gave you the treatment they did. Ranting about it on the internet and putting the whole of the Australian medical profession in the same basket because you haven't the answer to that question while proclaiming amulets will look after you..... QED.

Alright mate, and with respect as I know you've been good enough to advise me about Sri Racha before, I'd been to that hospital three times since 1999 to 2004, and the procedure was always fully conscious, and an onoccupied emergency bed, with an monitor on the little finger and an okygen mask, and I was out of there before breakfast.

That Sunday night, they refused to listen to my requests, (and it's not easy to talk when you're having an asthma attack, even harder to argue with recalcitrant Haitian immigrant nurses with formal quals) so they code-blacked me (which is the same as rape) and kept me drugged for ten days, and fed me morphine even - for asthma.

You DON'T medicate asthmna sufferers with morphine.

RIght?

The Australian public health system is a death trap.

The also stole the amulet off my wrist while I was unconscious and threw it in the bin. Only a fruitcake would not understand how this is off-topic.

---o0o---

LONG LIVE THE KING.

Edited February 9, 2010 by SeanMoran

[Benjie]

why would they do all that?

[GuestHouse]

Thanks for the reminder Sean, I've just revisited your PMs.

Let's get back to foreigners wearing Amulets!

[SeanMoran]

Thanks for the reminder Sean, I've just revisited your PMs.

Let's get back to foreigners wearing Amulets!

Yes. My point was that I wore an amulet back to Australia in 2006, and those lowlives at the public hospital cut it off my wrist after they connivingly drugged me unscionscious for asthma, and now I have a new amulet which I wear happily, the auxilary reminder being of what an Eell-hole Australia has now become, definitely with regards the public health system. Us monarchists' days are numbered.

One amulet - two reasons.

[GuestHouse]

So the amulet didn't prevent this run of bad luck then?

[mizzi39]

Please explain

I think that we are all conditioned in the west to believe that hard work and education (alone) will produce positive results, but for most it comes down to who you know, and not what you know. Contacts and being at the right place at the right time is what produces results. Hard work and eduction are secondary.

I don't know where your from canuckamuck, but in the US this is the biggest myth of all. I (as well as people in my generation) grew up conditioned to this way of thinking until reality hit many years later. Having a strong constitution, resources,and resilience is what produces results.

Sure this discussion would be better left for another topic, so I apologize for being off topic.

So if you ever need to have open heart surgery, or a serious dental work you're going to opt for a guy with connections rather than an education and protect yourself with an amulet?

Yeh Right you are!

You are going to do what the rest of us do - Get the best educated and best trained surgeon, anesthetist and medical support staff you can find. Wear the amulet by all means, but its the medical staff, their education, training and skill that keep you alive on the operating table.

The 'Education Doesn't Matter' argument is only a salve for the realization that it does matter.

Sorry my point was thrown wayyyyyy over your head GH. I was not talking about not needing well trained people with higher educations, nor am i criticizing hard work. I am sure that there are many well trained doctors, engineers, etc. in Thailand who may wear an amulet, just like the doctor or engineer in the States who is a Sunday church goer and wears a wedding ring, bracelet, and other body adornments .

The point that I was trying to make was the "myth" about how hard work and education has been preached to the point that many westerners feel that it is the "end all" to all of their problems. Many people work hard their whole life, have a decent education, and still do not achieve what they had hoped to. I make no excuses for it. Oh well! maybe these people simply did not work hard enough, therefore work harder and it will come.

" Why do the Jones' have 2 Mercedes in the drive way, their kids go to the best schools, and they live in a house fit for king? Is it because they work harder than the Robinson family next store? Mr. Robinson is always working, and Mrs. Robinson too, and there is a sign in front of their house that says FORECLOSURE. Well Yes son, The Jones' work very hard.They come from a family of big bankers who flees the rest of us hard working people". It is very hard work to flees millions of people" Just a generalization of course, sort of like many posts here on TV however it is an example of how this "myth" has gotten way out of hand in developed countries.

And to the OP. Your talking about hard work and education, and comparing it to an inoccent amulet (jewelry)? Talk about apples and onions.

Edited February 9, 2010 by mizzi39

[GuestHouse]

Mizzi,

I'm not sure that the myth you talk about is as widely believed as you would have it - it might make a good thread if you care to start one on the subject.

Meanwhile - Back to Westerners with Amulets.

[SeanMoran]

Meanwhile - Back to Westerners with Amulets.

The reason that good science must be falsifiable is that science is the pursuit of that part of life and luck that is well and truly known, even IF the World is slightly more egg-shaped than round.

The inverse of that is that science only delves into a very small subset of reality, that includes the well and truly known (that we learn in kindergarten) and the verges of that, the most probably significantly known (p<=.05) , discarding the other 95% of reality, which is why we need good luck and amulets.

Edited February 9, 2010 by SeanMoran

[jdinasia]

So if you ever need to have open heart surgery, or a serious dental work you're going to opt for a guy with connections rather than an education and protect yourself with an amulet?

Yeh Right you are!

You are going to do what the rest of us do - Get the best educated and best trained surgeon, anesthetist and medical support staff you can find. Wear the amulet by all means, but its the medical staff, their education, training and skill that keep you alive on the operating table.

The 'Education Doesn't Matter' argument is only a salve for the realization that it does matter.

I have a replacement saffron arm-band for HM the King. It reminds me of what wanke_rs I came across in the way of so-called 'educated' hospital staff back on February 17th 2008 in Australia who secretly code-blacked me (drugged me unconscious without consent) for TEN DAYS, and while they had my body to muck around with for their 'educated' medical experiments, they cut my wristband off me and threw it away.

I presented that Sunday night to borrow an oxygen mask because I had an asthma attack.

Now I've escaped that wretched country and have a new saffron amulet and am getting over the asthma slowly. The thought of what those 'educated' animals did to me is best not to think about if you want to breathe steadily.

Trust in the amulet.

Ummm you appear to be calling the orange rubber "Long Live the King" bracelet .. an amulet ?

Drugged and unconscious for 10 days? .. for an asthma attack? What else did they tell you was going on?

[SeanMoran]

1. Ummm you appear to be calling the orange rubber "Long Live the King" bracelet .. an amulet ?

2. Drugged and unconscious for 10 days? .. for an asthma attack? What else did they tell you was going on?

1. Yes.

2. Yes, yes. They had no excuse. They just tried to pass it around to the administrivia until it got lost in the system. I'm not the only one to be phrucked up by those thugs with drugs.

---o0o---

Anyway, that's offtopic, except to say that it was an horde of rampant scientists that stole my last amulet, and those were the circumstances of how it happened.

Now I have a replacement, but I won't go back there again without a loaded weapon. They don't understand logic - that is why we need good luck in these times. To save us from those mad scientists and their minions.

Edited February 9, 2010 by SeanMoran

[canuckamuck]

And to the OP. Your talking about hard work and education, and comparing it to an inoccent amulet (jewelry)? Talk about apples and onions.

Two things that improve the circumstances of your life, compared to a charm intended to make you lucky.

maybe its comparing apples to magic apples

[GuestHouse]

Bites own tongue!

[jdinasia]

1. Ummm you appear to be calling the orange rubber "Long Live the King" bracelet .. an amulet ?

2. Drugged and unconscious for 10 days? .. for an asthma attack? What else did they tell you was going on?

1. Yes.

2. Yes, yes. They had no excuse. They just tried to pass it around to the administrivia until it got lost in the system. I'm not the only one to be phrucked up by those thugs with drugs.

---o0o---

Anyway, that's offtopic, except to say that it was an horde of rampant scientists that stole my last amulet, and those were the circumstances of how it happened.

Now I have a replacement, but I won't go back there again without a loaded weapon. They don't understand logic - that is why we need good luck in these times. To save us from those mad scientists and their minions.

Not very far off-topic since you are calling a rubber "long live the king" bracelet a Buddhist amulet!

Could it be possible you were just wrong about the date? Or that you were .. ummmm ... incapacitated in some other way?

[jdinasia]

And to the OP. Your talking about hard work and education, and comparing it to an inoccent amulet (jewelry)? Talk about apples and onions.

Two things that improve the circumstances of your life, compared to a charm intended to make you lucky.

maybe its comparing apples to magic apples

I still stand with my jewelry statement I have a pin that landed me a job and there were far more qualified candidates. I have a ring that did the same thing

[SeanMoran]

Not very far off-topic since you are calling a rubber "long live the king" bracelet a Buddhist amulet!

Could it be possible you were just wrong about the date? Or that you were .. ummmm ... incapacitated in some other way?

No.

---o0o---

Not on Sunday February 17th 2008 and not now.

The amulet I wear on my wrist now is there for two reasons:

1. I believe that it is because of a most exceptional gentleman being HM the King for these last 63 years that Thailand is the wonderful and kind country it used to be,

2. I will always remember the sad plight of Australia from the country it used to be.

I don't need a dashboard mirror on my motorbike to have an amulet.

-----oo0oo-----

Well, as it happens I have the most wonderfully chilly little Toshiba fridge here in my hotel room, but it seems to be running out of beer!, so I guess I should get out my screwdrivers and pull it apart to remedy the malfunction, or else jusdt get some shut-eye and see you in the morning.

Goodnight and proliferant dreams, fellow punters.

Edited February 9, 2010 by SeanMoran

[canuckamuck]

And to the OP. Your talking about hard work and education, and comparing it to an inoccent amulet (jewelry)? Talk about apples and onions.

Two things that improve the circumstances of your life, compared to a charm intended to make you lucky.

maybe its comparing apples to magic apples

I still stand with my jewelry statement I have a pin that landed me a job and there were far more qualified candidates. I have a ring that did the same thing

I am not disagreeing with your point JD, obviously there are associations in this world that give people advantages. Sometimes these associations use symbols to communicate. I dont think these amulets represent that sort of thing however. If they did it would make them kind of 'attachment oriented' and I would think unsuitable from a perspective of Buddhism. But hey a paradox is better than a single dox any day.

[Benjie]

And to the OP. Your talking about hard work and education, and comparing it to an inoccent amulet (jewelry)? Talk about apples and onions.

Two things that improve the circumstances of your life, compared to a charm intended to make you lucky.

maybe its comparing apples to magic apples

I still stand with my jewelry statement I have a pin that landed me a job and there were far more qualified candidates. I have a ring that did the same thing

Frodo?

[PoorSucker]

I am betting a few pieces of jewelry, such as a lodge pin, a class ring, etc mean far more in many circles than hard work or actual education

You mean like this I carry?

or this one I also carry?

Edited February 9, 2010 by PoorSucker

[mizzi39]

Mizzi,

I'm not sure that the myth you talk about is as widely believed as you would have it - it might make a good thread if you care to start one on the subject.

Meanwhile - Back to Westerners with Amulets.

I would love to open a thread on this subject , but i am not sure as to how it would be Thai related. Keeping it somewhat Thai related think about this.

Thailand's economy is based on a "sufficiency economy" that means that anyone (Thai) can open a business here with very little hassle. No one is going to question it. Zoning commissioners, board of health (who don't inspect &lt;deleted&gt;) will not hassle you because they do not exist. People are free to open up a business when they want and where they want. Thank Lord Buddha, because there are very limited jobs to be had.Taxes are arbitrary to say the least which is all good as far as i am concerned.

"Hey I just want to sell noodles" What's the problem?" (Well there should not be any problem). Where is your zoning permit???? I just want to sell noodles sir. Has your cart been inspected by the board of health commissioner???? I just want to sell noodles to make a living.Where is your state tax ID???? Where is your degree? Do you at least have a Bachelors degree??? Did you complete a course in food hygiene??? Basic health??? Show me your transcripts. I just want to sell noodles to provide for my family. Well what about your government??? After all we are here for you. Oh that"s right!!! You are MY civil servant. When did the tables turn and I became YOUR civil servant SIR? didn't my vote help elect YOU??? May sound extreme??? We are almost numb to this &lt;deleted&gt; in the west and this is just a "nit noy" example. Sure it would be great if we did not have to look at our government to straighten out the total financial collapse and there were jobs for all, but this is the real world and the real world has nothing to do with hard work and higher education when a person finds themselves "unemployable"

This is the US and many developed countries. Try opening a noodle , burger, or any cart for that matter anywhere in the states and you would be shut down in a "New York minute". hel_l, in the states, you cannot even sell vegetables from your organic garden at your residence unless you have the proper license and permits to boot and still "Uncle Sam" will be wanting their tax cut even if it was approved (which is unlikely). It doesn't matter that you swamp them with more than enough tax dollars based on what you pay on your property alone. So yes,

I think there are many people that would agree that the whole "hard work and higher education campaign" is fallacy to say the least.

Now, the OP stated (and I am assuming he/she meant Thai) That they should be "taught" to have faith in hard work and higher education than an amulet.

Now taking into consideration that the average Thai with an entry level Bachelors say.... in business may make 20,000 baht per month in Bangkok and 15,000 baht per month (or substantially less) outside of Bangkok with no guarantee of advancement or pay raise should embrace this concept is totally unrealistic. Employees that work at "KFC" or "Swensens" many with a BA make 30 baht per hour. The fact of the matter is, is that there is no such thing as "equal opportunity employment" anywhere in the world including the LOS, (especially in the LOS). If your employer does not like the way you simply look your chances of advancement are not happening to say the least.

No offense to the OP, (jing jing) but his "work hard and get a higher education" as opposed to embracing some form of an "idol" maybe practical to some but, a very "antiquated" argument to others (myself included of course), so I firmly stand by my previous post(s).

It seems like many "falangs' turn into "social missionaries" commenting on how ridiculous ones culture is after being here for such a short time (and unless you were born and raised here then yes you have only been here for a short time).It would be best to calm your heels, and let live. After all you are challenging a culture that long out lives you! And after "you" are long and gone the culture will still remain, so again, live and let live!!!

Amulets are not harming you, unless they some how poke you in the eye or do you some other bodily harm! if the wearer of an amulet (Thai or Falang) gives that wearer some solace and peace, or even if the wearer does not understand why they are even wearing it... so be it. No harm to you my friend!

Good night!

Edited February 9, 2010 by mizzi39

[mogoso]

Ms. Brit gave me mine - actually small because never wear anything big/clunky looking. Anyways for good luck and makes her happy that I wear it.

A few more posts like this and I could begin to like brit....Best reason ther can be.

My wife gave me two. They were her fathers, they have monetary value and will become my grandsons after my passing. They're not large and no one can see them through my shirt. They were the most valuable items her family owned, and I wear them to honor her gift and the spirit in which it was given.

[wintermute]

If you bought Thai magical amulets then i'm sure that maybe buying bridges in New York, time shares, or swampland real estate might also be appealing.