Thaksin Happy To Tackle Expats Problems

[The_Other_Mac]

Suggest you rephrase with "...foreign individuals..." and "...limited amount of property..."

[lukamar]

There are about 18000 members on this site, maybe many not too active, if a lobby group was formed with only 2500 of them and had membership dues of $50 a year that would equate to about 5,000,000 Bt a year. With that amount of money the group could have a staff, website, office and hire some influential person with connections as a spokesman, maybe an actor or actress married to a Farang or a 1/2 Thai - 1/2 Farang that is well known.

You have to have very set goals and you have to make it sound like it's all for the Thia's benefit, in the long run. Start with small goals and work from there. Instead of saying "We want to own land" maybe "We would like to have joint property ownership with our Spouse". This could be touted as being a great step to strengthening family values.

You could go at the Visa requirements the same way. Asking the government to allow a longer visa for Farang married to a Thai so that both parties and their families could feel more secure. It could also be stated that this would allow the Farang more freedom to "invest in Thailand" or feel more secure moving currency and investments into the country. That would also be a win - win situation for Thailand.

Once you can get a small foothold and that may take years, you can start moving on other issues.

[Erwin1011]

Thanks MAC & LUKAMAR for the constructive reaction.

Mac : your suggestion makes sense, will adjust accordingly when i post the poll.

Lukamar: it shows there is a viability in the idea. we will be in for the long haul for sure, but that has always been the case with such groups. We will need to create the momentum once we have the thing set up.

[Rhys]

Oh...Vey... Let's not get carried away with The GOOD PMs....flair for mistakes...

[mnoorsapl]

There are about 18000 members on this site, maybe many not too active, if a lobby group was formed with only 2500 of them and had membership dues of $50 a year that would equate to about 5,000,000 Bt a year.  With that amount of money the group could have a staff, website,  office and hire some influential person with connections as a spokesman, maybe an actor or actress married to a Farang or a 1/2 Thai - 1/2 Farang that is well known.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"influential person with connections as a spokesman" to Mr.Toxin???.

[aaaaaa]

hey George - there is an idea for a new forum - Open Letters to PM Taksin. I wonder if he would ever read it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow !

now, that's a great idea for encreasing VT's rating ! or its downfall ?

[Flysiam]

Exactly my thoughts. so let's put it to the test then : find out who walks and who talks.

I'll put up a poll with a very simple basic postion that requires a simple yes/no answer.

We let it run for a month, just so everybody on this forum has an opportunity to state his position.

The question :

ARE YOU WILLING TO PARTICIPATE, SUSCRIBE TO A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP OF FOREIGNERS (CURRENTLY RESIDING IN THAILAND, OR LOOKING TO RESIDE THERE IN THE FUTURE) THAT WILL LOBBY WITH THE OFFICIALS IN THAILAND TO CHANGE THE CURRENT LEGAL SITUATION OF FOREIGNERS NOT BEING ALLOWED TO OWN PROPERTY IN THE COUNTRY?

I'll wait until the 16th for comments or rephrasing of the question and then put up the poll

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bring it on.. .I'm in......

Did I see someone refer to farangs as a Kwai???? hahahahaha I haven't been called a kwai since I was 15 - by another dek.....dek noi!

[jrincon17]

He could start by putting unemployed people to work just cleaning the litter off the roadsides, and around parks and lakes.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen !!!!!!!!!!

[mnoorsapl]

Instead of saying "We want to own land" maybe "We would like to have joint property ownership with our Spouse". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

above is a good quote for a start

[yuyi]

...

the major problem in this country in my mind is not a farang problem, but a problem for all, pollution and improper disposal of garbage. i believe it will come back to bite thailand like a two headed snake.

chaingmai is going through major development now. allot of major tourist venues are being constructed. but who is going to want to come to them when you can't even see the mountains surrounding the city because of carbon from cars and people burning everything up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, this is a major problem. Black clouds from so many cars and trucks, and garbage everywhere. If there is none yet it seems as if they bring it quickly and distribute it evenly, just to feel home again. It makes me sad every day.

Living on a farm it was no problem to just throw all to the ground, and from time to time burn what the ants and chicken did not eat.

But now it is plastic and batteries with unhealthy stuff in it, but they didn't notice that yet, it is still the same old habit... Or could it really be that they think it is looking good lying around everywhere?

[khunlungphudhu]

"influential person with connections as a spokesman" to Mr.Toxin???.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must have missed that...........Mrs. T's post that is!

[Heng]

Time for a new visa class perhaps. L class visas (for landowners) ? Renewable each year (as long as you're breathing) for say 10-50,000 Baht a year per plot of land. Land cannot be transferred, like land zoned for personal farm use. At the end of the visa term, the land reverts to the Crown Property Bureau. Why? No idea, but why make the law clear cut and simple?

[DaveYo]

First off my friends concerning your posts. I got some good questions to bring in your face.

How much land is enough for a foreigner here in Thailand. Say is 200 feet by 200 feet good enough or do you want a half acre????????

See, Thai people are not stupid. So they put it like this. You want land, OK, we give you 1 Rai and it cost you 40 M Baht. Cool huh??????

Even if you owned that land, what good is it if you cannot OWN YOUR HOUSE, on top of your land?????

How about this, WHY give us a 1 year visa and still force us to make visa runs every 3 frickin months, and then force us to get yet another visa on top of another visa etc. Does that make any sense to any of you?????? In USA, you get only one and that is it. You can stay as long as you please.

And HOW about this, why make it so hard for foreigners to get a work permit here in Thailand. Foreigners who go to USA, get automatic work permits granted along with their VISA. And also are granted the right to own land or their house instantly without having to put up buckeroos in front of some persons face. And to top it all off, they are not even citizens of USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now don't that beat all???????

Why cannot Thailand get real and get smart concerning these issues which will benefit them in the long run.

Oh, they have to hold the land so close to them cause it is all they got left from their inheiritances cause they are so FLAT BROKE and have no money in the Banks and are in debt so heavy it will take the rest of their lifetime to pay it off. So they use their land as collateral for the money being borrowed.

You take the land away from the Thai they will have nothing left worth to negotiate with later on.

They know that, and that is why they BANG you big time and inflate the price of their land knowing it is next to impossible for any foreigner to be buying them out of their rice paddies.

So they prefer to live like it is the Medival Ages--> living wise, yet want the latest gadgets to stay in touch with everybody and look bigger and feel richer than what they can be best described as total losers.

So that is why they kick us around cause they know they will lose total face if they were to ever compete with any foreigner on this planet.

Hmmmm, so you want to own land or house. Go to the Banks and find out what property they have that got seized. I did, and lo and behold, there is so much available that the Banks seized, its mind boggling to say the least and also there is many prime spots to pick from too. So now, Then buy off the bank and you have the land and or house. Big Problem with this, There is that Thai law against foreigners. Now isn't that sweet. Can you imagine how many Thai people will be forced to live in the streets if we can do that itty bit??????????? and deal with the Banks directly???????????? The Thai people already lost their rights to the land, and its now owned by the Banks. Ditto, yet the Banks let them stay and live on that land cause they are Thai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the Thai people know they are in deep shito, so that Thai Law is their main shield of protection and defense and its all they have left or they will be truly out in the streets against foreigner invasions etc.

Daveyo

[dutch]

Haleluja for USA

Mr.Daveyo better stay in USA.

I really don't like the undertone of your message.

[Backpack_thailand]

Which farang will be brave enough to make a complaint to the Prime Minister, giving all his contact details?

Not me!

I will...!

I've got nothing to hide. I'm 100% legal, WP, company, taxes etc.

Good old Mr.Thaksin is certainly going to get a letter from me!

[Heng]

Even if you owned that land, what good is it if you cannot OWN YOUR HOUSE, on top of your land?????

Who says you can't own your house if you own a piece of land?

How about this, WHY give us a 1 year visa and still force us to make visa runs every 3 frickin months, and then force us to get yet another visa on top of another visa etc.  Does that make any sense to any of you??????  In USA, you get only one and that is it.  You can stay as long as you please.

It's more difficult for foreigners to get visas to go to the US than it is the other way around.

Oh, they have to hold the land so close to them cause it is all they got left from their inheiritances cause they are so FLAT BROKE and have no money in the Banks and are in debt so heavy it will take the rest of their lifetime to pay it off.  So they use their land as collateral for the money being borrowed.

This is common wishful thinking on the part of bitter expats. Along the same lines as... "the economy is about to crash" "the bottom is about to fall out of the property market" and "without tourism revenues, the economy will grind to a halt."

So that is why they kick us around cause they know they will lose total face if they were to ever compete with any foreigner on this planet.

The competition is has been going on since you got off the plane. It's just that you chose to compete as an average player in a casino with the odds set in its favor. If you want to win, count cards, work harder, or get creative. Or do as the Chinese have done... go out and takeover key positions in the nation's police, army, and government. Then it's all gravy.

[DaveYo]

Even if you owned that land, what good is it if you cannot OWN YOUR HOUSE, on top of your land?????

Who says you can't own your house if you own a piece of land?

How about this, WHY give us a 1 year visa and still force us to make visa runs every 3 frickin months, and then force us to get yet another visa on top of another visa etc.   Does that make any sense to any of you??????  In USA, you get only one and that is it.  You can stay as long as you please.

It's more difficult for foreigners to get visas to go to the US than it is the other way around.

Oh, they have to hold the land so close to them cause it is all they got left from their inheiritances cause they are so FLAT BROKE and have no money in the Banks and are in debt so heavy it will take the rest of their lifetime to pay it off.  So they use their land as collateral for the money being borrowed.

This is common wishful thinking on the part of bitter expats. Along the same lines as... "the economy is about to crash" "the bottom is about to fall out of the property market" and "without tourism revenues, the economy will grind to a halt."

So that is why they kick us around cause they know they will lose total face if they were to ever compete with any foreigner on this planet.

The competition is has been going on since you got off the plane. It's just that you chose to compete as an average player in a casino with the odds set in its favor. If you want to win, count cards, work harder, or get creative. Or do as the Chinese have done... go out and takeover key positions in the nation's police, army, and government. Then it's all gravy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heng,

Thailand Law says we being foreigners cannot own any land or even a house unless you meet the minimum requirement of having 40 M Baht in the Bank account and verified. If not the best you can own here is your car and a or Condo if you wish, and of course your own personal property. Anything else its a NO, NO, Slap, Slap.

Really, I don't think so. Asians can get visa's to USA without much trouble provided they are straight with the authorities, and in many cases they are not, so that is why they keep getting denied. Understand.

Next being number 3 comment, no my friend. That is the fact and the truth. Problem is many object to the truth, so like I said they find excuses.

As to the last comment, again way far out, no foreigner cannot even run for office here. Tsk Tsk. To be creative here, means you got to grind the meatballs just right or it does not sell. Secondly many of you are not aware of is that there are many jobs that is off limits for foreigners.. If you don't believe me, look it up.

I rest my case.

As to you Dutch, if you not like the undertone of my messages, don't let it bother you since what I say I say pretty much the real McCoy happenings that goes on from what I know and see here in Thailand. Every person has different experiences here in Thailand, so don't hold your breath. Let it out man, and chill out.

Daveyo

[Heng]

It's difficult to rise to the top of any food chain, eco system, or nation by playing fair or following all the rules.

[bossman]

So the Thai people know they are in deep shito, so that Thai Law is their main shield of protection and defense and its all they have left or they will be truly out in the streets against foreigner invasions etc.

Daveyo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well no duh. Thailand is a small poor developing world country which makes them especially vulnerable to first world style takeovers. A few western big dogs with lots of money to throw around could theoretically buy up most of the real estate if the laws weren't there. The foreigner bias is there for a good reason. It may not be good for Foreigners but it's good for THEM. The fact is if the law ever swung in a direction where a foreigner could own lots of land and lock the Thai people out then there would be some serious resentment and maybe bloodshed. It'd be a modern day colonialist situation which maybe some of you find enticing. Good luck with making that happen, we all know what the history is in SE asia with that.

Edited May 23, 2005 by bossman

[bossman]

The competition is has been going on since you got off the plane.  It's just that you chose to compete as an average player in a casino with the odds set in its favor.    If you want to win, count cards, work harder, or get creative.    Or do as the Chinese have done... go out and takeover key positions in the nation's police, army, and government.  Then it's all gravy. 

Then again the Chinese had plenty of time to integrate themselves seamlessly into this society and are viewed as more or less Thai. It's pretty much impossible for the average farang to do this. The "race" and "westerner" element will always lock out the farang from going deeper than surface relationships. Some farang might be having casual or in law type relations with a so called hiso Thai but you'll never see a farang in a Thai government office wielding real power. It's just not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe a well integrated luk-kreung can but that's after they have proven themselves to be thai and not a farang. Of course a western government or corporation could get cute and implant the native "puppet" but once that's figured out expect the usual cycle of resentment and violence to begin. Thailand isn't a multicultural/racial society like some western countries so it's useless trying to apply our rules to it.

[LaoPo]

So the Thai people know they are in deep shito, so that Thai Law is their main shield of protection and defense and its all they have left or they will be truly out in the streets against foreigner invasions etc.

Daveyo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well no duh. Thailand is a small poor developing world country which makes them especially vulnerable to first world style takeovers. A few western big dogs with lots of money to throw around could theoretically buy up most of the real estate if the laws weren't there. The foreigner bias is there for a good reason. It may not be good for Foreigners but it's good for THEM. The fact is if the law ever swung in a direction where a foreigner could own lots of land and lock the Thai people out then there would be some serious resentment and maybe bloodshed. It'd be a modern day colonialist situation which maybe some of you find enticing. Good luck with making that happen, we all know what the history is in SE asia with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree here.

Napoleon already said it: l'Histoire se repete/History repeats itself.

Of course major companies in the world will take over other companies in different (emerging) countries.

But when these countries glow and glow, the reverse will take place and the (overtaken) companies will be taken over by local or regional conglomerates.

There are so many examples of these situations.

It's buying-selling-reselling and buying again.

Look at the Japanese companies and what happened? They took over big EU and US companies, and when they ran out of money these companies were sold again.

We are living in a GLOBAL world; no country can survive without the other anymore and that also counts for Thailand.

Rules WILL change, sooner or later.

LaoPo

Edited May 23, 2005 by LaoPo

[Heng]

Then again the Chinese had plenty of time to integrate themselves seamlessly into this society and are viewed as more or less Thai. It's pretty much impossible for the average farang to do this. The "race" and "westerner" element will always lock out the farang from going deeper than surface relationships.

What's the rush? Farangs have just as much time as anyone else. If it takes a few hundred years to get the job done, that's how long it takes.

In many cultures, the thinking is "I'm getting this done for future generations of my family." In the typical farang mindset (and no, it's not a 100% generalization; and certainly not meant to be insulting), anything that takes that long isn't worth doing because the thinking is "I'll be dead by then." Until this type of thinking changes, the farang toehold and powerbase will probably remain as it is, and you can probably count on doing visa runs here for the foreseeable future.

Edited May 23, 2005 by Heng

[Heng]

Look at the Japanese companies and what happened? They took over big EU and US companies, and when they ran out of money these companies were sold again.

A lot of big name holdings were sold, but there are plenty of assets (an awful lot of empty real estate, golf clubs, SME type businesses, etc.) still held by the Japanese. Most Japanese still do business in a "Go Rin No Sho" (Book of Five Rings: one of the directives being --> be discreet about your commercial activities) way of thinking and don't wave banners proclaiming their ownership -kind of like the small Sony print when you see a Columbia Pictures movie-.

Edited May 23, 2005 by Heng

[Ijustwannateach]

Of course, since somebody's got this nice Chinese-American loan shark thing going on, it suits him to defend the "fairness" of the Thai legal system against the REST of the foreigners in Thailand. Incidentally, Japan's more or less just as fair (legally, in respect to immigration) to Americans as America is to Japanese.

"Steven"

[Heng]

There's no need to defend the status quo, Steve... as that's the way things are. If anything, my comments above are meant to inspire people (foreigners included) to rise above the status quo.

[ray23]

Which farang will be brave enough to make a complaint to the Prime Minister, giving all his contact details?

Not me!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I e-mailed Mr. Taksin about a specific problem I was having with all the contact detail a week ago, so far no reponse. On the other hand I have not been deported yet.

Has anyone else actually tried the system?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

hey George - there is an idea for a new forum - Open Letters to PM Taksin. I wonder if he would ever read it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'd close us down if he did

[mnoorsapl]

hey George - there is an idea for a new forum - Open Letters to PM Taksin. I wonder if he would ever read it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'd close us down if he did

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought this thread is inactive or may be closed, I'm surprised. many isssues huh?