Thailand Aims To Seize All Thaksin Fortune

[boris52]

The government will be made to look like criminals if they get away with this.

You mean a government seizing money from a criminal is a crime?

If you stole a Chuppa-Chups from 7-11 and the government siezed your house and car, who is the real criminal ?

[ratcatcher]

The government will be made to look like criminals if they get away with this.

You mean a government seizing money from a criminal is a crime?

If you stole a Chuppa-Chups from 7-11 and the government seized your house and car, who is the real criminal ?

Perhaps we could compare apples to apples instead of oranges?

The former P.M. is a criminal on the run from the law. He is unwilling to face further charges against him by the state and has caused untold damage to Thailand by his words and actions.

[BlackJack]

4 years after the coup and now its all a bit of a yawn

I think people are bored with this lot

and you all know that when the money dries up so does the honey

[boris52]

Abhisit and his government are sooooooooooooo STUPID.

There are millions and millions of Thais all throughout thailand who are disgusted with the govnerment for what they svery unjust treatment to Mr Thaksin.

They see it as being very unfair and mean spirited, and it is not something they will forgive easily if at all.

This STUPID government is going on a one way path in the complete opposite direction to reconciliation.

They should be building bridges and negotiating.

In the bigger scheme of things, this government is basically shooting Thailand in the foot, setting up the country for years of instability. Abhisit for all his oxford degrees really is a moron.

[jdinasia]

Ah, .. Boris ....

Yes it is obvious that the Reds want the biggest anti-democracy guy in the history of Thailand (imho) back at all costs including using threats from Sae Daeng and a 'People's Army of Thailand' to try and bully their way into getting him back.

If they want ANY credibility they have to dump Thaksin.

[somluck]

Wow!! let the battle begin!!

.............otherwise known as a CIVIL WAR!

The REDS should adopt William Wallace's battle cry.....very appropriate in this instance

FREEDOM!

[boris52]

Abhisits leadership can be compared to a drunken teenager behind the wheel at 3am in the morning.

Inexperienced, unstable, out of control, and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of his passengers or the impending train wreck he is about to drive the people of Thailand into.

[jdinasia]

Somluck ---

The reds are very free! Even their leaders like Sae Daeng are not in jail. Really ---- all they need to do is get rid of Thaksin and actually follow democratic tradition (like not buying votes particularly when they would have likely won without it, not committing electoral fraud etc, not having an anti-democratic leader, not preventing other political parties from campaigning, not destroying the checks and balances that democracy needs to thrive etc).

If the reds can do those things and manage to get 50% +1 of the MP's or form a coalition government after the next elections, then they can even have majority say in the government!

[Foggy Bottom]

His

-first move was to sell computers to police-departments while he was a policeman in San Kamphaeng (Chiang Mai). He made a lot of money with it and was so clever to share with decision making people.

Having some money from that he went higher:

-his second move was to get the permission and help from the government and other influent Thai to setup a private phone company with all the agreements of being the SOLE mobile-company in Thailand. AIS controlled everything and the government made huge investments to benifit them. No need to say he was clever again to benifit some helping hands.

Having more money from that, he wanted more and more....... he went into politics. The rest of the story we all know if we (want to) think a bit.

Read some international press articles, google around, there is a lot on the net. Read what his advisers say about him f.e.; he cannot stop, not in investment, not in politics, he wants to be the winner in all he does and whatever it takes................. He think he will never lose and can control everything. Article published last year in an Arab newspaper.......

etc etc etc.................

Well done, at last someone said it

But you missed the bit where, when serving as Education Minister in the Chaovalit cabinet pre 1997, Shin Computer Co won the contract to supply computers to all the village schools, including the ones with no electricity. They were duly supplied, and in those schools that still have no electricity, those mid-1990s spec computers still sit enshrined in museum like computing labs.

[Foggy Bottom]

To call the most successful leader Thailand ever had "a creep" is close to insanity. Have we forgotten in that Mr. Thaksin. turned around a financial crisis that had left the Thai government and the elite blinking in the headlights. Let us not forget the despair of Thailand's neighbors that had been pulled to the ground by the failed Thai financial system. Some of us also remember that the seriously ill, or injured on the Isan invariable died for lack of medical attention before the Thaksin Government provided rural clinics and cottage hospitals.

Errr - wrong

When Thaksin was elected, Thailand had $40 bn in foreign cash reserves in the national current account. At the end of his first term in office, that surplus was a 15 bn deficit.

He milked all the rebuilding work done by the Leekpai government, which came to fruition during the first 3/4 of his first term, then proceeded to rape the economy for personal gain.

Another little looked at fact (from the BOI website) - Inward Investment projects approved for BOI sponsorship -

Year 2000 = 2000+ (last full year of Leeppai government)

Year 2001 = <200 (first year of Thaksin government)

Was that a collapse in applications, or an en-masse disapproval of them?

either way, it paints a picture and is why Thaksin had to host a lunch for the joint Chambers of Foreign Commerce in Bangkok to explain that "Thai Rak Thai" was not a nationalist phrase.

[animatic]

Wow!! let the battle begin!!

.............otherwise known as a CIVIL WAR!

The REDS should adopt William Wallace's battle cry.....very appropriate in this instance

FREEDOM!

Well we know how William Wallace ended up...

And we know Scotland and UK are still joined at the hip.

Your point is?

[animatic]

Abhisits leadership can be compared to a drunken teenager behind the wheel at 3am in the morning.

Inexperienced, unstable, out of control, and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of his passengers or the impending train wreck he is about to drive the people of Thailand into.

Sounds much more 'Thaksonian'* to me.

...unstable, out of control,

and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of... the people of Thailand...

*Thaksonian : pertaining to things of Thaksin and his history

[animatic]

Yes lets all support

FREEDOM!

To politically campaign and speak your mind

in safety through out the nation of Thailand

without fear of beatings or attacks.

Let us all see Abhisit visit the north without impediment and violence.

Oh wait if his side can be heard how can the PTP win all the races?

Edited February 10, 2010 by animatic

[thaiedward]

Thaksin was a rich man even before he came into power, and the governments claim to his entire fortune is spurious indeed. I also find it a little disturbing how you all accept what should be a fair trial as a foregone conclusion and see no problem in doing so. I think you have all been in Thailand a little too long.

Ill gotton gains while in Chiang Mai?

Seem you haven't spent enough time here...

Many found it profoundly disturbing that Thaksin got away with the 2001 decision.

And it's obvious he had much money offshore, and that is illegal

and reason enough to take what is here, since it is accessible.

Let him then prove how he got it.

It is being looked at like USA RICCO laws.

Some of us appreciate the voice of reason.

Kindly count me in that number.

[boris52]

Abhisits leadership can be compared to a drunken teenager behind the wheel at 3am in the morning.

Inexperienced, unstable, out of control, and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of his passengers or the impending train wreck he is about to drive the people of Thailand into.

Sounds much more 'Thaksonian'* to me.

...unstable, out of control,

and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of... the people of Thailand...

*Thaksonian : pertaining to things of Thaksin and his history

Abhisit is the one in the driver seat mate !

[npanit]

Just my opinion, but my common sense tells me that there's no legitimate way to amass a fortune of several hundred billion Baht with seven years in office. Thaksin was seen personally selling mobile phones around 1992-3. Then he made a small fortune (typical British understatement) through devious inside means when the Baht was let loose under a "controlled float" devaluation in 1997, as publicly admitted to by one of his close associates. And I still have enough faith in our judicial system to believe that his jail term was not politically contrived, so I do not want a convicted person to be anywhere but where he belongs and certainly not anywhere near a position of power. So by all means come back to Thailand, Thaksin, and stop saying you've been driven to exile.

[jdinasia]

BANGKOK: -- (AFP) - Thailand's attorney general wants all of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's 2.2 billion-dollar fortune to be seized by the court in its ruling this month, the office said in closing arguments Tuesday.

I think you folks are missing the point of the article ----- They are going after the seized funds from the sale to Themasek. The ~2.2bil USD ... not everything Thaksin owns

[pagallim]

Thaksin was a rich man even before he came into power, and the governments claim to his entire fortune is spurious indeed. I also find it a little disturbing how you all accept what should be a fair trial as a foregone conclusion and see no problem in doing so. I think you have all been in Thailand a little too long.

...in a matter of three years Thaksins wealth grew from 700 Mio. USD to 2200 Mio. USD. Please show me how you can do this with honest work. Considering the regular interest rate of Chines goldshops of 28% p.a. Thaksin is well served when they seize his complety property and his funds. We will not forget, that he still has a contract with Cambodia to "take care" of all landlines and the complete mobile phone business for the next 35 years.

Maybe somebody can help me to find the link, where the deal is being described and how this contract came into effect.

Actually, it was due to the increase of value of Shin Corporation shares. At the time, it was parallel with other telecom companies.

[thaihome]

Of course you know this is an Urban Myth.

The law was brewed up and brought through Parliament by the opposition. i.e. The Democrats

You will have to explain how the oppostion gets a law passed in Parliament without support of the ruling majority. Indeed the proposal to change had been around since 2001, and both Orange and DTAC were not compliant, but nevertheless, the law was changed due to TRT support.

The timing is not in dispute. The day the law became effective is the day the sale was annouced. Do you not think the deal had been done for some time berfore? That they stayed up late the night of 22 Jan 2006 and did the deal then?

TH

[ivowatson]

His

-first move was to sell computers to police-departments while he was a policeman in San Kamphaeng (Chiang Mai). He made a lot of money with it and was so clever to share with decision making people.

Having some money from that he went higher:

-his second move was to get the permission and help from the government and other influent Thai to setup a private phone company with all the agreements of being the SOLE mobile-company in Thailand. AIS controlled everything and the government made huge investments to benifit them. No need to say he was clever again to benifit some helping hands.

Having more money from that, he wanted more and more....... he went into politics. The rest of the story we all know if we (want to) think a bit.

Read some international press articles, google around, there is a lot on the net. Read what his advisers say about him f.e.; he cannot stop, not in investment, not in politics, he wants to be the winner in all he does and whatever it takes................. He think he will never lose and can control everything. Article published last year in an Arab newspaper.......

etc etc etc.................

This are indeed facts. The only thing I would like to add to the second move :"help from the government...", this was the "government" of general Sunthorn, the military dictator-coup-plotter. I guess Mr. T. wasn't against coups at that time.

Also, really interesting to see how this (non)topic raises the tempers between foreigners. Can only imagine how Thais are feeling about this.

[rainman]

Ah, .. Boris ....

Yes it is obvious that the Reds want the biggest anti-democracy guy in the history of Thailand (imho) back at all costs including using threats from Sae Daeng and a 'People's Army of Thailand' to try and bully their way into getting him back.

If they want ANY credibility they have to dump Thaksin.

Do we have a different understanding of 'Democracy' maybe?

Sure, Thaksin made money while in office, and it's something every single Thai politician does. The problem is that some people got jealous because he made so much more than they did. Don't for a second think that other politicians ousted Thaksin for the good of the Thai people. No, they did it for their own benefit.

Now, back to 'Democracy'. Thaksin allowed people to vote and even called early elections. On the other hand, Abhisit is a puppet that was brought to power through a military coup - and he refuses to hold elections, even though public opinions show that Thai people clearly want them.

So, again ...maybe we have a different understanding of 'Democracy'?

[way2muchcoffee]

Sure, Thaksin made money while in office, and it's something every single Thai politician does. The problem is that some people got jealous because he made so much more than they did. Don't for a second think that other politicians ousted Thaksin for the good of the Thai people. No, they did it for their own benefit.

Please outline exactly how Abhisit has become personally enriched by abusing his authority a PM. Also please do the same for Korn. If you are going to make such sweeping statements please be prepared to defend them.

Now, back to 'Democracy'. Thaksin allowed people to vote and even called early elections. On the other hand, Abhisit is a puppet that was brought to power through a military coup - and he refuses to hold elections, even though public opinions show that Thai people clearly want them.

Thaksin dissolved parliament because his party was about to be dissolved for massive election fraud. Thaksin engaged in massive human rights violations with the anti-drug campaign. Thaksin utilized the libel laws of Thailand to silence media that wasn't friendly to his cause. Thaksin even publicly announced that democracy was not the aim of his government. Is this the man you are praising as the poster-boy for democracy? Really?

The Abhisit government is the elected government of a parliamentary system. It would be entirely irresponsible for him to call elections at this time because the present opposition party will not allow free and fair elections (this includes freedom to campaign).

[jdinasia]

Ah, .. Boris ....

Yes it is obvious that the Reds want the biggest anti-democracy guy in the history of Thailand (imho) back at all costs including using threats from Sae Daeng and a 'People's Army of Thailand' to try and bully their way into getting him back.

If they want ANY credibility they have to dump Thaksin.

Do we have a different understanding of 'Democracy' maybe?

Sure, Thaksin made money while in office, and it's something every single Thai politician does. The problem is that some people got jealous because he made so much more than they did. Don't for a second think that other politicians ousted Thaksin for the good of the Thai people. No, they did it for their own benefit.

Now, back to 'Democracy'. Thaksin allowed people to vote and even called early elections. On the other hand, Abhisit is a puppet that was brought to power through a military coup - and he refuses to hold elections, even though public opinions show that Thai people clearly want them.

So, again ...maybe we have a different understanding of 'Democracy'?

No answer to post 135 rainman?

OK .. The Thaksin comments on Democracy -------- reported all over ------

PM'S DECLARATION:'Democracy is not my goal'

Thaksin suggests he'll block any move for amendments to rein in his power

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday revealed for the first time the value he places on democracy, saying it was not the foremost thing Thailand needed.

In a candid statement made ominous by its release on Constitution Day, Thaksin said that as long as the country could progress and the people were happy, he was not concerned about the means used.

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

continued ----

In a comment to counter calls for constitutional amend- ments that would support the sputtering checks-and-balances mechanism, the prime minister hinted that he would block the campaign to amend the charter, an issue that could cause a fall-out between him and his Chat Thai Party allies.

"Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices."

ahhh yes Thaksin --- the guy for democracy!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-demo...Goal-t4293.html

Yes rainman --- we have different definitions.

Democracy INCLUDES:

one man one vote

It also includes:

Not buying votes

Not demolishing the independent organizations that maintain the checks and balances on the Executive Branch

Not using threats and lawsuits and intimidation to stifle a free and independent press

Not committing extra-judicial killings and justifying it (There are 2700+ people that will NEVER get their vote!)

Accepting the independent checks and balances groups final decisions. (Say ..... a court.... or the EC)

Not fomenting civil unrest (a little civil disobedience is fine)

Not having your lawyers attempt to bribe judges (2 million baht in a pastry box?)

Not associating with loose cannons like Sae Daeng (who threatened grenade attacks at Gov't House and the airport -- and those attacks happened --- 18 more votes gone forever!)

Not associating with loose cannons like Sae Daeng redux (who has threatened judges and EC members with death --- and just returned from visiting Thaksin in Dubai)

etc etc etc

[dttk0009]

Wow!! let the battle begin!!

.............otherwise known as a CIVIL WAR!

The REDS should adopt William Wallace's battle cry.....very appropriate in this instance

FREEDOM!

Sorry, you are not allowed to have freedom from 2PM to 5PM or from Midnight onwards. Please try again later.

[selftaopath]

Wow!! let the battle begin!!

.............otherwise known as a CIVIL WAR!

But they might find in FAVOR of Thaksin the great. Now that would be a "hoot" eh?

[elcent]

@jdinasia

Do you think it's democratic from the so called middle/high class to occupy illegally and vandalise government and puplic properties?

Taking over airports(with lots of fun)?

Stealing sensitive security data?

Kidnapping citizens of this country?

Intimidating Courts, even the high court?

Calling on children to join their fun?

... it could go on and on ...

Thaksin isn't welcome to England and other Western countries because of his human rights violations and not the court verdict on the land case, or else he would have been arrested there without any doubt.

He was cleared from these engraving violations(extra judical killing) by the courts in Thailand which was strangly enough strongly supported by almost all in the society.

When looking at the most recent pictures of the PAD leaders who are turning paler by the day, I can't stop wondering of who is longing for another coup the most.

[ballpoint]

Please outline exactly how Abhisit has become personally enriched by abusing his authority a PM. Also please do the same for Korn. If you are going to make such sweeping statements please be prepared to defend them.

You're wasting your breath (fingers?) here. I've tried reason with these pro red posters who come on here making bold statements, without any facts or reasons to back them up. I've asked questions, to better understand their views, without any reasonable answers, if any answers at all. Examples?

If so many people wanted to vote for Thaksin, and he truly wanted to make a change, why did he not start afresh in the 2001 elections, with new TRT candidates in each constituency, rather than buying out the same old corrupt bunch of Chavalit, Banharn, Newin, Chalerm, Narong et al? After all, if people really wanted to vote for his party they would have voted for any reasonable candidiate put up by him. This was further compounded in 2005, when he bought out the remainder of the NAP, thus helping the TRT to get more votes over all, rather than sharing them with the smaller parties. - No answer as yet.

In the 2007 election, if the majority of the country truly wanted Thaksin's man in charge, then why did so many people vote for the smaller parties, rather than the PPP? - I had one answer saying that people like voting for local parties, despite CTP being a Suparnburi based party and nowhere near Isaan, and they all knew that the smaller parties would align with PPP, again despite the CTP actually pulling out of the TRT coalition in 2006 and joining the democrats in boycotting the elections. What is it about that move that would make people think a vote for CTP was a vote for PPP? The current situation, with the remains of the CTP outside Thaksin's camp, is closer to what voters intended than when they were in the coalition with the PPP. - Reasonable answer awaited.

What is illegal with the current situation? In any democratic system, not that thailand has ever truly been democratic, before, during or after Thaksin, if there are three parties and Party x gets 49% of the vote, party y gets 30% and party z 21%. Then traditionally, party x will see if it can form a government with either y or z, but if it fails there is nothing to stop parties y and z from forming the government themselves. Ignorance and sour grapes from supporters of party x have no effect on the legality of the outcome. - No answer as yet.

And, perhaps the main one for all the "elections now" parrots: If immediate elections are truly the answer, please tell us how they can be guaranteed to be fair - no vote buying, no voter intimidation, and all sides freely able to campaign throughout the country? At the moment, the biggest thing standing in the way of elections is the threatened, and in many cases, very real, violence and intimidation of the red shirts towards non Thaksin campaigners. Please also tell us why they are the answer right now; why not wait until after the outcome of arguably the biggest trial in recent Thai history, and why not wait until the country has fully recovered from the global recession? - There was one "answer" that went on about vote buying, and how they all did it, and how it really didn't matter, but nothing to address the ability of all candidates to campaign without threat of violence. - Reasonable answer awaited.

Unless the majority of the red supporters actually come up with reasons for their opinions, and links to support their "facts", I'm afraid they will be seen as posting nonsense simply to try and get a heated response. There's a term for that. Answers. Anyone?

Edited February 10, 2010 by ballpoint

[ballpoint]

@jdinasia

Do you think it's democratic from the so called middle/high class to occupy illegally and vandalise government and puplic properties?

Taking over airports(with lots of fun)?

Stealing sensitive security data?

Kidnapping citizens of this country?

Intimidating Courts, even the high court?

Calling on children to join their fun?

... it could go on and on ...

Thaksin isn't welcome to England and other Western countries because of his human rights violations and not the court verdict on the land case, or else he would have been arrested there without any doubt.

He was cleared from these engraving violations(extra judical killing) by the courts in Thailand which was strangly enough strongly supported by almost all in the society.

When looking at the most recent pictures of the PAD leaders who are turning paler by the day, I can't stop wondering of who is longing for another coup the most.

A classic example of the point I was making above.

Please give evidence of the PAD:

Stealing sensitive security data. - Although the reds have been known to hand data to Cambodia.

Kidnapping citizens of this country. - Although the reds have been known to beat and murder those who disagree with them.

Intimidating courts. - Although the reds have "predicted" violence over the asset trial.

Calling on children to join their fun. - Although Thaksin said to bring the family along to the Songkhran protests, despite his own fleeing the country.

Please also give a reference to the court case in which Thaksin "was cleared from these engraving violations (extra judicial killing).

We await your answers, otherwise I'm afraid it's

for you.

Edited February 10, 2010 by ballpoint

[elcent]

@ballpoint

Google can be a good friend to search

or do we have to recall all the pictures/images/facts and acts one by one here?

I don't think it's the right place.

This post was a response to "jdinasia" understanding of democracy, lol.

[elcent]

... and soon enough we'll all see an ABAC Survey to announce the approval of the stringent measure applied. Surveys just by push button without any dephts applied.

A real survey takes time and careful planning and not a manipulating approach. It wold usually take 20 - 30 minutes per interview to get to the truth.

Edited February 10, 2010 by elcent