Thailand Aims To Seize All Thaksin Fortune

[ballpoint]

@ballpoint

Google can be a good friend to search

or do we have to recall all the pictures/images/facts and acts one by one here?

I don't think it's the right place.

This post was a response to "jdinasia" understanding of democracy, lol.

Ah, the standard answer of the red posters. Good to see some things never change. Google wasn't making those claims, you were. Prove them.

[hammered]

Do people think the court will take all, some or none of the money? I was talking to soem red sympathisers about this and they were very divided on how it would go between all and some

[elcent]

@ballpoint

Google can be a good friend to search

or do we have to recall all the pictures/images/facts and acts one by one here?

I don't think it's the right place.

This post was a response to "jdinasia" understanding of democracy, lol.

Ah, the standard answer of the red posters. Good to see some things never change. Google wasn't making those claims, you were. Prove them.

So according to your statement PAD never occupied government facilities, airports, hindered children to go to school, destroyed puplic and governement facilities, intimitated courts.

What about you doing your homework and don't wait until your meal is served?

By the way I'm pink, see the wink?

[ballpoint]

Do people think the court will take all, some or none of the money? I was talking to soem red sympathisers about this and they were very divided on how it would go between all and some

Having lived through over 2 decades of seeing Thai "justice" handed out to those such as Chatichai Choonhaven, Suchinda Kraprayoon, Kaset Rojanil, Panlop Pinmalee (Krue Seh), Newin et al, I'd say anyone who definitely "knows" what the outcome will be is fooling themselves. The past suggests that if he had have left the country and shut up he probably would have had his money back by now. He didn't, so who knows what will happen to it now? I know what I'd like to see happen, and I know what I think will happen. Sadly, they're not the same.

[way2muchcoffee]

So according to your statement PAD never occupied government facilities, airports, hindered children to go to school, destroyed puplic and governement facilities, intimitated courts.

What about you doing your homework and don't wait until your meal is served?

By the way I'm pink, see the wink?

Maybe I'm confused. Where did hammered indicate that PAD didn't occupy government facilities or airports, hinder children going to school, and damaging government facilities?

You also failed to answer even one of his simple questions, instead choosing to dissemble. Here's another chance. I'll remind you of the questions:

Please give evidence of the PAD:

1) Stealing sensitive security data.

2) Kidnapping citizens of this country.

3) Intimidating courts.

4) Calling on children to join their fun.

5) Please also give a reference to the court case in which Thaksin "was cleared from these engraving violations (extra judicial killing).

Edited February 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[hammered]

So according to your statement PAD never occupied government facilities, airports, hindered children to go to school, destroyed puplic and governement facilities, intimitated courts.

What about you doing your homework and don't wait until your meal is served?

By the way I'm pink, see the wink?

Maybe I'm confused. Where did hammered indicate that PAD didn't occupy government facilities or airports, hinder children going to school, and damaging government facilities?

You also failed to answer even one of his simple questions, instead choosing to dissemble. Here's another chance. I'll remind you of the questions:

Please give evidence of the PAD:

1) Stealing sensitive security data.

2) Kidnapping citizens of this country.

3) Intimidating courts.

4) Calling on children to join their fun.

5) Please also give a reference to the court case in which Thaksin "was cleared from these engraving violations (extra judicial killing).

I think you confused me with someone else;) I was the dude asking what amount if any people thought would be taken. Im kinda going through a bored with the old often repeated and rarely answered stuff and trying my best to stick to topical stuff.

[elcent]

probably ghosts? What got hammered to do with this? Are you drunk or stoned?

Sorry< I'm not baby sitting here. Do your research and you shall find out. It's all out there.

Edited February 10, 2010 by elcent

[ballpoint]

So according to your statement PAD never occupied government facilities, airports, hindered children to go to school, destroyed puplic and governement facilities, intimitated courts.

What about you doing your homework and don't wait until your meal is served?

By the way I'm pink, see the wink?

Statement, what statement did I make? You made the statement, I asked for proof. You're doing a good job of wriggling out of it, just as I said in an earlier post is all too typical of pro red posters.

My question was:

Please give evidence of the PAD:

Stealing sensitive security data. - Although the reds have been known to hand data to Cambodia.

Kidnapping citizens of this country. - Although the reds have been known to beat and murder those who disagree with them.

Intimidating courts. - Although the reds have "predicted" violence over the asset trial.

Calling on children to join their fun. - Although Thaksin said to bring the family along to the Songkhran protests, despite his own fleeing the country.

Please also give a reference to the court case in which Thaksin "was cleared from these engraving violations (extra judicial killing).

Now, I'm probably flogging a dead horse here (I hope you understand that's a metaphor for wasting my time), but show me anywhere in my post where I say the "PAD never occupied government facilities, airports, hindered children to go to school, destroyed puplic and governement facilities, intimitated courts"? I see you've slipped a further unproven statement in here, and chosen to discard the sensitive data, kidnapping (unless "hindering" is kidnapping?), calling on children and the supposed court case against Thaksin's extra judicial killings.

[scorecard]

BANGKOK: -- (AFP) - Thailand's attorney general wants all of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's 2.2 billion-dollar fortune to be seized by the court in its ruling this month, the office said in closing arguments Tuesday.

I think you folks are missing the point of the article ----- They are going after the seized funds from the sale to Themasek. The ~2.2bil USD ... not everything Thaksin owns

I disagree, it's neither of the above suggestions.

They are going after ANYTHING which was gained through graft, corruption, cronyism, abuse of power. ETC.

[jdinasia]

@jdinasia

Do you think it's democratic from the so called middle/high class to occupy illegally and vandalise government and puplic properties?

Taking over airports(with lots of fun)?

Stealing sensitive security data?

Kidnapping citizens of this country?

Intimidating Courts, even the high court?

Calling on children to join their fun?

... it could go on and on ...

Thaksin isn't welcome to England and other Western countries because of his human rights violations and not the court verdict on the land case, or else he would have been arrested there without any doubt.

He was cleared from these engraving violations(extra judical killing) by the courts in Thailand which was strangly enough strongly supported by almost all in the society.

When looking at the most recent pictures of the PAD leaders who are turning paler by the day, I can't stop wondering of who is longing for another coup the most.

Hmmmmmm You are quoting me from my post about Thaksin and asking instead about the PAD

Let's take your points (not about any one person but about a group being civilly disobedient )

Government House --- Democratic? Yes, they were practicing a well honored portion of democracy called right to protest peacefully and the right to assemble.

Stealing sensitive security data? Please offer evidence of who did this specifically and what was stolen?

Airports -- assuming you mean "swampy". The PAD (again a group and not elected folks particularly at the beginning) assembled at the airport after having been the victims of almost nightly grenade attacks at Gov't House. (See Seh Daeng) In a very sad and knee-jerk reaction, the AOT shut the airports down. The AOT should have simply asked the PAD to move to a protected parking deck or something.

Kidnapping? Who was kidnapped and who pressed charges?

Intimidating courts? Again what court was intimidated and how?

Calling on children to join their fun? Yes children are welcome to be a part of peaceful assembly and protest.

Your statements about Thaksin being exonerated over the extra-judicial murders of over 2700 people are not true.

Your statement of Thaksin not being allowed in places etc are not true. (AFAIK Thaksin has never re-applied fir a visa to the UK after his former business visa was cancelled after the sale of the football club.) No official request for extradition was asked for from the UK, though it was discussed.

Now ------ you are discussing the PAD .... I assume you know they have their own political party now, right?

The rest of us are discussing Thaksin, the reds that want Thaksin back in power, and Thaksin's political parties and proxy parties.

The main point here would be that unlike other people ... you didn't answer any questions you just tried to obfuscate.

[mca]

With regards to the war on drugs (if I remember rightly-please correct me if I don't) I believe after the 2006 coup a committee decided there wasn't enough evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody connected to the murders.

[Samuian]

Seizing all his assets seems a bit drastic, but we will have to see what the court has determined.

Who knows that this amount frozen in this country is "all"?

I doubt it!

as there was plenty of time to move things - and doing how and what he was doing,

well he simply privatized some of the states assets, signed himself into a comfortable monopoly

and then sold a large a part of it to a foreign countries ownership - who knows who the

major shareholder of Themasek really is... what happened to the rumor about.... ah' well...

Ample rich... and, and, and, the quick surprise divorce?

In his tenure as a premier his assets quadrupled?

Does that ring a bell or twelve?

Edited February 10, 2010 by Samuian

[jdinasia]

With regards to the war on drugs (if I remember rightly-please correct me if I don't) I believe after the 2006 coup a committee decided there wasn't enough evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody connected to the murders.

To date I believe that no charges have been brought against anyone for those murders. Thaksin (nor anyone else) has been absolved of them either in a group or in specific murders.

[hammered]

With regards to the war on drugs (if I remember rightly-please correct me if I don't) I believe after the 2006 coup a committee decided there wasn't enough evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody connected to the murders.

To date I believe that no charges have been brought against anyone for those murders. Thaksin (nor anyone else) has been absolved of them either in a group or in specific murders.

Hey anyone going to mention shipping moo. That uusally has a certain mafioso power broker up north connected by the hip to Thaksin threatening to explode into millions of fragments with anger whenever it gets mentioned along with the words investigation. Might as well regurgitate all the old stuff if I have to listen to constant diatribes about Thaksin equating to wonderman.

Now what was the story about a refrigerator, a couple of geriatrics, shed loads of machine gun armed police and some minister........ and was it Ayuthaya.......

[Ricardo]

Abhisits leadership can be compared to a drunken teenager behind the wheel at 3am in the morning.

Inexperienced, unstable, out of control, and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of his passengers or the impending train wreck he is about to drive the people of Thailand into.

Sounds much more 'Thaksonian'* to me.

...unstable, out of control,

and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of... the people of Thailand...

*Thaksonian : pertaining to things of Thaksin and his history

Abhisit is the one in the driver seat mate !

Then who do you think it is, trying to smash their way into that hypothetical car, to kill the occupant ? Deja vu anyone ?

[Insight]

elcent - What if we do our research using Google and it directs us to this page?

Not really helping the cause, is it?

[PeaceBlondie]

You don't have in answer question in Thailand.

[BWPattaya]

I'm sure Mr Thaksin's supporters will accept the judgement of the court with grace and abomb. Ooops! I meant "aplomb"! Really...

Bet that went down with a bang!

[BWPattaya]

The government will be made to look like criminals if they get away with this.

You mean a government seizing money from a criminal is a crime?

Isn't it the court seizing the assets? Not the government.

[ivowatson]

Calling on children to join their fun. - Although Thaksin said to bring the family along to the Songkhran protests, despite his own fleeing the country.

Ooch, this must hurt! Why did you post that? It was soooo convenient to forget about this.

What a coward and evil bastard would do that? the Nation and the Yellows must have made this up, surely. Who would say something like that? Knowing very well there would be lots of violence (or was it a coincidence that the kids all got out of the country just hours before :Songkran" started) and telling "his people" to bring their children?!

[rainman]

The government will be made to look like criminals if they get away with this.

You mean a government seizing money from a criminal is a crime?

Isn't it the court seizing the assets? Not the government.

If the court seizes the assets, where do they go? If to the government, well ...that means the government seizes them. If the billions go to the judges ..that would barely influence their decision, wouldn't it?

[rainman]

Calling on children to join their fun. - Although Thaksin said to bring the family along to the Songkhran protests, despite his own fleeing the country.

Ooch, this must hurt! Why did you post that? It was soooo convenient to forget about this.

What a coward and evil bastard would do that? the Nation and the Yellows must have made this up, surely. Who would say something like that? Knowing very well there would be lots of violence (or was it a coincidence that the kids all got out of the country just hours before :Songkran" started) and telling "his people" to bring their children?!

I remember the yellow shirts bringing toddlers to the airport siege. And nobody even told them to, they brought them out of their own stupidity. How is that any different?

[scorecard]

['boris52' post=3331018' date='2010-02-10 11:03:22]Abhisits leadership can be compared to a drunken teenager behind the wheel at 3am in the morning.

Inexperienced, unstable, out of control, and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of his passengers or the impending train wreck he is about to drive the people of Thailand into.

Sounds much more 'Thaksonian'* to me.

...unstable, out of control,

and doesn't give a hoot about the safety of... the people of Thailand...

Wow boris, would you like to explain with some rationale and detailed arguments, or it this your normal ridiculous verbal vomit?

Waiting for some substantiating facts and detailed information / rationale boris.

Or perhaps you will fall back to your usual comments like "i'm tired of talking to children".

[rainman]

Yes rainman --- we have different definitions.

Democracy INCLUDES:

one man one vote

It also includes:

Not buying votes

Not demolishing the independent organizations that maintain the checks and balances on the Executive Branch

Not using threats and lawsuits and intimidation to stifle a free and independent press

Not committing extra-judicial killings and justifying it (There are 2700+ people that will NEVER get their vote!)

Accepting the independent checks and balances groups final decisions. (Say ..... a court.... or the EC)

Not fomenting civil unrest (a little civil disobedience is fine)

Not having your lawyers attempt to bribe judges (2 million baht in a pastry box?)

Not associating with loose cannons like Sae Daeng (who threatened grenade attacks at Gov't House and the airport -- and those attacks happened --- 18 more votes gone forever!)

Not associating with loose cannons like Sae Daeng redux (who has threatened judges and EC members with death --- and just returned from visiting Thaksin in Dubai)

etc etc etc

I'm sorry, but your posts just don't make any sense. You're accusing Thaksin of vote buying. Are you forgetting that the Democrats have been convicted of vote buying as well during the election? Yes, look up the election results. On top, the Democrats are now accused of receiving hundreds of millions of Baht in illegal "donations" and their party may be dissolved by the EC. Not aware of it? Read the front page of Bangkok Post or any big Thai newspaper.

You're accusing Thaksin of "extra-judical killing" aka. the killings of drug dealers. How much worse is that from Abhisit instructing the military to pull the Rohingya boat people hundreds of miles into the open ocean without food and water, leaving them to die. And what about the refugees being deported to Myanmar and Laos, where they face torture and risks of being killed, according to the UN human rights watch? Those are innocent people. Not drug dealers. But you're too busy defending drug dealers. Whatever you're eating, stop it and maybe your posts will make more sense.

And you keep bringing up Seh Daeng. You're right, he's a nut. I already wrote that before, which I'm sure you know since you're following my posts so closely. One idiot doesn't mean that the whole country is stupid.

When you have plausible answers to the above issues, feel free to share them. Because all I see you doing is ranting away against Thaksin when there are much worse things happening in Thailand that you don't seem to give a poop about.

[elcent]

I suggest to let the courts deal with PAD without any bias if possible. Some of you asking for proof which millions have seen by themselves. Hundreds of hours have been recorded from ASTV, not sure if someone in Thailand did that though.

On the children call to join it was Chamlong I think via ASTV after ignoring the court's injunction to free the way for students to their school.

There was only PAD when the data disappeared, unless you believe in ghosts.

What about the lady in Don Meung who got illegally "arrested" by PAD and threatened, I think even physically abused?

Mass demo in front of the courts, police stations? Never happened?

What about foreign airlines who had to ask PAD to take out their planes from the airport, Who forcefully occupied the control towers? Sure only fun loving people do that.

Anyway, wait and see what the court will decide or even upgrade the cases to insurrection.

I do understand that even Thaksin isn't interested in justice, because this was/is his last straw to get over it as if nothing has happened (his "sportsman's" remark during his phone call to the junta).

And for the last, don't let them have a coup again to distort the way to justice.

[scorecard]

@jdinasia

Do you think it's democratic from the so called middle/high class to occupy illegally and vandalise government and puplic properties?

Taking over airports(with lots of fun)?

Stealing sensitive security data?

Kidnapping citizens of this country?

Intimidating Courts, even the high court?

Calling on children to join their fun?

... it could go on and on ...

Thaksin isn't welcome to England and other Western countries because of his human rights violations and not the court verdict on the land case, or else he would have been arrested there without any doubt.

He was cleared from these engraving violations(extra judical killing) by the courts in Thailand which was strangly enough strongly supported by almost all in the society.

When looking at the most recent pictures of the PAD leaders who are turning paler by the day, I can't stop wondering of who is longing for another coup the most.

QUOTE FROM ABOVE: "He was cleared from these engraving violations(extra judical killing) by the courts in Thailand which was strangly enough strongly supported by almost all in the society".

Wrong / incorrect on two counts:

1. He was not cleared by a Thai court, in fact the matter has never been before a Thai court.

2. "Strongly supported by almost all Thais". This is not true. There were, at the time, very obviosly Thais who were very concerned about the drug problems in Thailand, but to say most Thais supported Thaksins 'shoot on site anybody who walked through the door' is not correct.

You also conveniently didn't mention the personal vendeta in this matter.

[scorecard]

I suggest to let the courts deal with PAD without any bias if possible. Some of you asking for proof which millions have seen by themselves. Hundreds of hours have been recorded from ASTV, not sure if someone in Thailand did that though.

On the children call to join it was Chamlong I think via ASTV after ignoring the court's injunction to free the way for students to their school.

There was only PAD when the data disappeared, unless you believe in ghosts.

What about the lady in Don Meung who got illegally "arrested" by PAD and threatened, I think even physically abused?

Mass demo in front of the courts, police stations? Never happened?

What about foreign airlines who had to ask PAD to take out their planes from the airport, Who forcefully occupied the control towers? Sure only fun loving people do that.

Anyway, wait and see what the court will decide or even upgrade the cases to insurrection.

I do understand that even Thaksin isn't interested in justice, because this was/is his last straw to get over it as if nothing has happened (his "sportsman's" remark during his phone call to the junta).

And for the last, don't let them have a coup again to distort the way to justice.

Somehow many of the posters here just see only black or white: Your either a yellow or your a red.

Time to do some thinking folks and realize that there are good points and bad points in all the stances.

[elcent]

@scorecard

As far as I remember he was cleared because of lack of evidence.

Yes, there were Thais and human rights organizations who tried to stop that, but they got trampled by the system's murderous machinery.

I don't have any vendetta, but I try to look at all sides and not just one, I even defend him of what I think are wrong accusations. It was in Thaksin's hand to call for neutral investigations, which he never did, why?

To ignore the extra judicial killings is plain wrong, even when biased by overacting executives. Or was it backing them up for something in exchange? And we're talking about 2000 cases plus.

Thaksin could have easily lived in the UK when he would have reacted differently.

[jdinasia]

Wow rainman ... you managed to quote my post without the large bold underlined question

I have stated clearly that EVERYONE that has done wrong should be brought before the courts.

You don't answer any of the points about Democracy ... you just whine about the other side. Yes a few yellow and red cards were handed out to individual Democrat candidates. The Party was not involved. Dissolution happens when the Party Executives are part of the problem.

The Rohingya issue started under Thaksin's watch ... While i am sure some reprehensible things have happened to them, comparing that to the ordered executions of Thai nationals is specious at best. Other illegal immigrants, again not the same thing as ordering their deaths. Before you keep crying about the HRW ---- please let us know if your country is on the list Please also tell us how many of these issues were going on during Thaksin's regie and what else they mentioned him for.

Sae Daeng ----- just returned from a meeting in Dubai with Thaksin ---- that should clinch that one.

"stupid" --- I don't think I use that word very often. I do on occasion use the word "ignorant". I most often use it when people cry about the Democrats currently being in power when they didn't cry about Samak and Somchai being PM's. Why? Because the people crying are ignorant about how a PM is elected. I use it also when people cry about an "elected government" being ousted by a coup in 2006. Why? Because the people crying are ignorant.

[jdinasia]

I suggest to let the courts deal with PAD without any bias if possible. Some of you asking for proof which millions have seen by themselves. Hundreds of hours have been recorded from ASTV, not sure if someone in Thailand did that though.

On the children call to join it was Chamlong I think via ASTV after ignoring the court's injunction to free the way for students to their school.

There was only PAD when the data disappeared, unless you believe in ghosts.

What about the lady in Don Meung who got illegally "arrested" by PAD and threatened, I think even physically abused?

Mass demo in front of the courts, police stations? Never happened?

What about foreign airlines who had to ask PAD to take out their planes from the airport, Who forcefully occupied the control towers? Sure only fun loving people do that.

Anyway, wait and see what the court will decide or even upgrade the cases to insurrection.

I do understand that even Thaksin isn't interested in justice, because this was/is his last straw to get over it as if nothing has happened (his "sportsman's" remark during his phone call to the junta).

And for the last, don't let them have a coup again to distort the way to justice.

A demonstration/protest etc is a part of the freedoms allowed in Democracy.

Who forcefully 'occupied' the control towers? Nobody.

Court injunction? Sorry but the only injunction I know of at Government house was an injunction against dispersing the PAD.

I do think I remember early on --- BEFORE Sae Daeng's threatened grenades started flying that families were invited and encouraged to join the peaceful protest at Gov't house.

I think this is twice I have answered you point by point without you having had the courtesy to respond to what I have posted. Please feel free to go back and answer those questions (that you derived your questions and statements from) even if they were not directed at you originally.

BTW -- Thaksin wasn't 'cleared' .. the case just didn't procede. A case against him does not have to include 2000+ murders. A case could simply be conspiracy to commit murder and murder. The elements of conspiracy being his position, his statements to the press and his statements to officials in the government and their actions (including the actions of the police/death squads).