Thai And/or Hilltribe Coffee

[richard10365]

I think the key to finding the perfect brew of coffee is to be able to roast your own beans. I taught myself how to roast beans in a wok at my house. I buy green beans directly from the hilltribe farmers.

In the past I have bought green beans from Lisu farmers from Chang Dao. The last time I bought beans I got them from Karen farmers on Doi Inthanon. I still haven't decided which beans are better but the Karen beans from Doi Inthanon are grown at over 1000 meters while the Lisu beans are grown at around 600 meters. Chang Dao beans cost me about 150 baht per kg. Doi Inthanon beans are 120 baht per kg.

In theory, the higher the elevation, the better the bean. I really can't tell the difference yet but I still enjoy comparing the delicious coffee I can roast at my house compared to what I can buy at Rimping (foreign) supermarkets here in Chiang Mai. I make freshly roasted ground coffee every morning. The taste is great!

[shepsel]

In the past I have been quite disappointed with Thai coffee. The main problem is in the roasting process, whereby the beans are roasted at too high of a temperature and the coffee tastes burnt and bitter. Very recently I found a producer from Chiang Rai who is starting to sell coffee by internet. He sent me some samples and I was very pleasantly surprised. The website is:

redcliffcoffee.wordpress.com The owner Derek Kirk seems quite informed about coffees, and is quite anxious to please his prospective clients. I believe that if you contact him, you will be able to order some in C.M. and have it delivered free of charge. He prices are super reasonable--499 for a kilo bag, which is less than half of what I normally have paid in the past.

[Donnyboy]

In the past I have been quite disappointed with Thai coffee. The main problem is in the roasting process, whereby the beans are roasted at too high of a temperature and the coffee tastes burnt and bitter. Very recently I found a producer from Chiang Rai who is starting to sell coffee by internet. He sent me some samples and I was very pleasantly surprised. The website is:

redcliffcoffee.wordpress.com The owner Derek Kirk seems quite informed about coffees, and is quite anxious to please his prospective clients. I believe that if you contact him, you will be able to order some in C.M. and have it delivered free of charge. He prices are super reasonable--499 for a kilo bag, which is less than half of what I normally have paid in the past.

hey great site- they hand deliver in CM on a reg basis by the looks

[Greenside]

Hillkoff is the most comprehensive coffee supplier in CM and they have about ten blends if I remember correctly. City Roast and French Roast are my favourites so far and I have half a dozen left to try. They also have a huge selection of paraphernalia and machines, mostly aimed at commercial customers but if you've got past looking at the price tag at Starbucks you may have pockets of the right depth! The owners really have their act together and have a classroom/demo area to teach their (commercial) customers how to make coffee for the masses - this foresight and attention to detail goes way beyond what you normally see here and leads me to wonder who the owners of this venture are. Anyone know?

[mcgriffith]

Coincidental to this (resurrected) thread, I bought 250 g of Hillkoff's Italian Roast beans today.

I don't have a proper mill, only a blender attachment (the purists will sniff, I know).

95 B for some of the freshest perfectly roasted 100% Arabica bean.

Hillkoff is the shizzle in the minizzle....love the place, the coffee and all the various accoutrements.

Bean (sic) going there for years.

[Throatwobbler]

In the past I have been quite disappointed with Thai coffee. The main problem is in the roasting process, whereby the beans are roasted at too high of a temperature and the coffee tastes burnt and bitter. Very recently I found a producer from Chiang Rai who is starting to sell coffee by internet. He sent me some samples and I was very pleasantly surprised. The website is:

redcliffcoffee.wordpress.com The owner Derek Kirk seems quite informed about coffees, and is quite anxious to please his prospective clients. I believe that if you contact him, you will be able to order some in C.M. and have it delivered free of charge. He prices are super reasonable--499 for a kilo bag, which is less than half of what I normally have paid in the past.

I've just had a try of his coffee and I was very impressed. One of the best I've had here. I will be getting more.

[JIM7]

Kasems / 2 stores in CM one on Nimmanhaemin the first next to Warrorot Market north of Chang Moi street.

Doi Tung coffee is good too. Can buy it in beans from the Aka who run the coffee shop in Chiang Rai. If you need I can look up the address.

Am in Canada right now. Best

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Coincidental to this (resurrected) thread, I bought 250 g of Hillkoff's Italian Roast beans today.

I don't have a proper mill, only a blender attachment (the purists will sniff, I know).

95 B for some of the freshest perfectly roasted 100% Arabica bean.

Hillkoff is the shizzle in the minizzle....love the place, the coffee and all the various accoutrements.

Bean (sic) going there for years.

Agreed with Hillkoff, and being able to select the roast. Question though, is grinding in a crude blade grinder better than letting them do the grinding? (Can specify the grind setting when ordering). With a blade grinder I don't think you get the same uniformity, but is it still better to grind fresh?

[Secularist]

Also Hillkoff. Google it, they're located in Chiang Mai.

We always buy or coffee at Hilcoff. Many choices, fresh and ground to order.

[mcgriffith]

Winnie, the blade grinder in my understanding "works" the bean a bit too much- releases lots of volatile flavour elements.

A proper coffee mill (that can be adjusted to any level of grind from course to ultra fine) doesn't beat the bean up so much...it just passes through one time.

A proper coffee mill is a rather expensive piece of machinery however. I'll stick with the blender attachment blade grinder- still better than buying pre-ground IMO.

[harrry]

Winnie, the blade grinder in my understanding "works" the bean a bit too much- releases lots of volatile flavour elements.

A proper coffee mill (that can be adjusted to any level of grind from course to ultra fine) doesn't beat the bean up so much...it just passes through one time.

A proper coffee mill is a rather expensive piece of machinery however. I'll stick with the blender attachment blade grinder- still better than buying pre-ground IMO.

It may not make a lot of diference with filter coffee but te cone grinders make the grind all the same size which is needed in esspresso machines.

I am waiting to get one....could not justify buying the machine and the grinder out of my discressionary money this month

[Bubbalicious]

I haven't tried Duang Dee or the CMU brands before, but may have to try them out based on comments.

Of the ones I've tried so far Doi Chaang is by far the best. You can try it in their shop on Nimanhaemin (across from Warm Up, and I believe they have a shop in Airport Plaza but haven't seen it yet), they serve their Premium in the shops, but they also have very nice Peaberry and Organic varieties in bags of whole beans as well (but I wouldn't recommend their cheaper Ego coffee). I've been to all their shops in Chiang Rai and up in Baan Doi Chaang and have been very impressed by the dedication they put into making/processing the coffee. They've been highly rated by all the Intl. coffee trade reviewers.

doichaangcoffee dot com(see the Thai version for locations, as the English one is for their Canadian partnership).

Another one I like is Lanna Coffee, they also have a shop (Lanna Cafe) on the 1st Ring Road (towards City Hall after passing the Rimping on MaeJo Road, but on the opposite side of the road). They have their roaster right there on site and have some good food and snacks on offer as well.

lannacafe dot org

[heybruce]

I haven't tried Duang Dee or the CMU brands before, but may have to try them out based on comments.

Of the ones I've tried so far Doi Chaang is by far the best. You can try it in their shop on Nimanhaemin (across from Warm Up, and I believe they have a shop in Airport Plaza but haven't seen it yet), they serve their Premium in the shops, but they also have very nice Peaberry and Organic varieties in bags of whole beans as well (but I wouldn't recommend their cheaper Ego coffee). I've been to all their shops in Chiang Rai and up in Baan Doi Chaang and have been very impressed by the dedication they put into making/processing the coffee. They've been highly rated by all the Intl. coffee trade reviewers.

doichaangcoffee dot com(see the Thai version for locations, as the English one is for their Canadian partnership).

Another one I like is Lanna Coffee, they also have a shop (Lanna Cafe) on the 1st Ring Road (towards City Hall after passing the Rimping on MaeJo Road, but on the opposite side of the road). They have their roaster right there on site and have some good food and snacks on offer as well.

lannacafe dot org

I usually drink Lanna Coffee, but will try Doi Chaang. You can buy Lanna Coffee at Kasem stores or Rimping Supermarket. It's also on sale at the Tops Supermarkets, but is considerably more expensive there.

[sabaijai]

I agree on Hillkoff, one of the better Thai arabicas and the well-priced. For my tastes, I would rank it second to Doi Chaang and better tasting - and cheaper - than most of the other northern coffee distributors.

One point in Lanna's favour is the use of resealable bags.

[iSabai]

I haven't tried Duang Dee or the CMU brands before, but may have to try them out based on comments.

Of the ones I've tried so far Doi Chaang is by far the best. You can try it in their shop on Nimanhaemin (across from Warm Up, and I believe they have a shop in Airport Plaza but haven't seen it yet), they serve their Premium in the shops, but they also have very nice Peaberry and Organic varieties in bags of whole beans as well (but I wouldn't recommend their cheaper Ego coffee). I've been to all their shops in Chiang Rai and up in Baan Doi Chaang and have been very impressed by the dedication they put into making/processing the coffee. They've been highly rated by all the Intl. coffee trade reviewers.

doichaangcoffee dot com(see the Thai version for locations, as the English one is for their Canadian partnership).

Another one I like is Lanna Coffee, they also have a shop (Lanna Cafe) on the 1st Ring Road (towards City Hall after passing the Rimping on MaeJo Road, but on the opposite side of the road). They have their roaster right there on site and have some good food and snacks on offer as well.

lannacafe dot org

I usually drink Lanna Coffee, but will try Doi Chaang. You can buy Lanna Coffee at Kasem stores or Rimping Supermarket. It's also on sale at the Tops Supermarkets, but is considerably more expensive there.

I was drinking Lanna Coffee at the Cafe de Siam (Loi Kroh near Imperial Mae Ping Hotel) during my stay and loving it! Was very tasty (fukcing delicious!), and I had bought some to bring home at Rimping near the airport. Haven't tried it yet here at home, but I'm already missing CM and all its good coffees. (Oh how the priorities have changed as I got older... )

Now I guess I'm gonna have to make a trip up there twice a year to stock up on the good stuff just to satisfy my coffee addiction!

[ataloss]

My favorite are the beans grown and sold at the Chiang Mai University research station atop Doi Pui. Makes for a nice walk if you park at the park visitor center.

For us lazy SOB's who live near CMU and don't want to travel that far, do you know if this coffee is available anywhere else? Like maybe CMU?

I have never seen it anywhere other than atop the mountain. Anyone else?

Actually they process coffee right on campus, at the CMU canal gate. Just before you exit CMU, turn right to the buildings opposite the gas station. You can often smell the roasting aroma. Nicely roasted ans reasonably inexpensive. Enjoy!

[mcgriffith]

Yeah, I "cheat" that light all the time when south bound on Canal...quick left, U-turn and straight on....scofflaw that I am.

Love the smell from there when they are roasting.

[KBTexas]

If you coffee lovers dont know Thailand has the worlds best coffee, not many people know that

I don't know about the world's best, but Thailand definitely produces excellent coffee, and few people outside of the coffee lovers in north Thailand seem to know this. Don't waste your money on Starbucks, try the local coffee.

--disclaimer: I do not live in CM, or even Thailand (yet) but I have been roasting my own coffee for over 3 years.--

As a home roaster, I would disagree that it is the worlds best, but some of it is certainly good. If you want REALLY good coffee, roast your own. Green beans keep up to a year stored properly, but roasted coffee is really only good for about 2 weeks, and most places do not move stock enough for you to get fresh roasted.

If you like Starbucks, then you will probably like a darker roasted coffee, FC or better, since they are called Charbucks for a reason. However, many beans are actually much more flavorful at lighter roasts. I certainly look forward to roasting some of the hill coffee when I move to Thailand! Maybe I will change my mind about 'the worlds best', since many of those coffees run 240-320 baht a pound (in the US) for green beans, and some are higher...much higher.

In any event, enjoy the coffee.

[KBTexas]

Winnie, the blade grinder in my understanding "works" the bean a bit too much- releases lots of volatile flavour elements.

A proper coffee mill (that can be adjusted to any level of grind from course to ultra fine) doesn't beat the bean up so much...it just passes through one time.

A proper coffee mill is a rather expensive piece of machinery however. I'll stick with the blender attachment blade grinder- still better than buying pre-ground IMO.

Yes, but you would be surprised if you did a side by side taste test of the results. Burr grinders allow more uniform particle size, and hence more even extraction. You do not get the over-extraction bitterness or the under-extraction weakness that you tend to get with blade grinders. Better than pre-ground? Probably, unless you have a shop nearby that roasts their own, and grinds them fresh for you. Just buy enough for a day or two at a time and you're all set. A decent beginning burr grinder is about $100 US in the US...no idea in Thailand. It will be one of the pieces of equipment I bring when I move there...along with my roaster, scale, and coffee makers. (French Press, Vac Pot, Clever Coffee Dripper and Aeropress, among others)

[JXXXL]

Can someone tell me what the price is for a 250 gram bag at CMU and Hillkopf?

I just checked Red Cliff coffee and they want 199bt including free shipping. I've been buying my beans at Perfect Blend for 85bt for a 250g bag. Perfect Blend have fresh roasted whole bean coffee and it's very good. I used to buy beans form the roaster at Rim Ping near the airport but he was charging 240bt for a 200g bag. Perfect Blend IMHO is better coffee at less than half the price.

As KBTexas said, the age from roasting is key to good coffee so it's much better to buy it from a shop that roasts rather than from a coffee shop like Charbucks or Doi Chang where you have no idea of the roasting date.

Regarding grinders, a good low cost way to grind is a hand-crank model. They sell them at Hillkopf.

[lingnoi1977]

It's taken me a while but I've finally got around to most of the producers talked about on this forum.

Coffee is a personal choice and everyone's palate is different but as a coffee purist I can say that most of the mentioned vendors sell adequate quality beans. I did notice that some "stretch" the blend a little with inferior beans and some roasting techniques are not as good as others. Generally speaking most of them offered resaonable drinkability at a fair price.

I did discover a couple selling local (Doi Chang area) beans and some imported/local blended beans also.

There were a few different beans to choose from - all sourced from high quality growers, I am told and sold with a recent roast date. Tried the "Classic" blend - about 250 baht for 250 grams. If you want their number, PM me.

I use both an espresso machine and an Italian "perculator" depending on what drink I feel like and this blend showed good characters in both. A bloody good drink!

Good luck in your search for the right cup.

[harrry]

As KBTexas said, the age from roasting is key to good coffee so it's much better to buy it from a shop that roasts rather than from a coffee shop like Charbucks or Doi Chang where you have no idea of the roasting date.

Regarding grinders, a good low cost way to grind is a hand-crank model. They sell them at Hillkopf.

REmember it takes three days to a week from roasting for the oils to settle so be patient that long. It only takes a few minutes from grinding for flavours to be lost so grind when making.

[mcgriffith]

Re: prices as asked above.

Hillkoff 95 B 250g bag, whether whole bean or ground (but you can select among 5 different roasts, and 6 different grinds for ground coffee).

Duang Dee 85 B 250g bag, same as above.

Slight discount for 500g and up.

I'll leave the pricing of the high end bean to others, as I don't buy and don't know.

BTW, I was in Rimping Nim Daily yesterday- I noticed some "Dao" brand coffee from Laos. But it was 150 B for 250g. <deleted>, Lao coffee so expensive?

All the Italian imported is 250 B +, more like 350-500B for 250g bag.

I do occasionally buy the D. Egbert's brand of either "Select" or "Premium". Price very reasonable at ~160 B for 500g of pre-ground.

Great taste but a bit too fine a grind, and it is probably a Robusta/Arabica mix, based on the very reasonable price. It is rocket fuel...will definitely get your motor running

harrry, when I lived in Bali in the mid-70's, my maid used to roast local bean with a big cast iron contraption, closed on the top, with a big crank handle stirrer, over a gas ring burner.

Freshest and best coffee ever.

Along with the omelets made with almost still alive bay shrimp, caught that morning, and the fresh mango juice....those were the days.

[harrry]

harrry, when I lived in Bali in the mid-70's, my maid used to roast local bean with a big cast iron contraption, closed on the top, with a big crank handle stirrer, over a gas ring burner.

Freshest and best coffee ever.

Along with the omelets made with almost still alive bay shrimp, caught that morning, and the fresh mango juice....those were the days.

hmmmm everything I had in the 70s tasted better too.

THere are mixed feelings about leaving coffee to gas. I was basing my comments on a Perth coffee place ( Five Senses) that allways made a special roast of a different blend of their top beans on Tuesday so that ir would be drunk at perfection over the weekend. I do know at least these blends did not taste as good on Wednesday.

Good coffee is still good though as long as it is ground when made.

[KBTexas]

hmmmm everything I had in the 70s tasted better too.

THere are mixed feelings about leaving coffee to gas. I was basing my comments on a Perth coffee place ( Five Senses) that allways made a special roast of a different blend of their top beans on Tuesday so that ir would be drunk at perfection over the weekend. I do know at least these blends did not taste as good on Wednesday.

Good coffee is still good though as long as it is ground when made.

Harry...you are absolutely correct. Beans should rest a minimum of 2 days from when they are roasted for the lighter roasts, and up to a week for the darker roasts. I assumed that the roaster would rest the beans before grinding for a customer. For City to Full City roasts, I usually rest for 2-3 days and for Full City+ up for 5-6 days. And it really is better to grind just before brewing, but I have had coffee ground up to a week before brewing that has not lost much of it's flavor. It depends on how you store it after grinding. Airtight containers with little air space is the best way to go if you must store ground coffee.

Best Regards,

Edited May 29, 2010 by KBTexas

[Genericnic]

harrry, when I lived in Bali in the mid-70's, my maid used to roast local bean with a big cast iron contraption, closed on the top, with a big crank handle stirrer, over a gas ring burner.

Freshest and best coffee ever.

Along with the omelets made with almost still alive bay shrimp, caught that morning, and the fresh mango juice....those were the days.

When you were in Bali, did you ever try the coffee that was roasted with white rice? I thought it was very strange but it tasted fine, was very low acid, and you could drink it all day wit no serious caffeine overdose. Have never seen it anywhere other than Bali.

David

[mcgriffith]

I will have to look up Agung and tell her she must give the bean a rest....

No, can't say that I remember the white rice mixed in, David. Although it might have been there.

Going to Hillkoff shortly to price a hand crank coffee mill.

The high speed blade grinder works, but has a most irritating noise issue.

The sound of a dental drill screaming, before I have had my coffee, just doesn't work for me.

[KBTexas]

I will have to look up Agung and tell her she must give the bean a rest....

No, can't say that I remember the white rice mixed in, David. Although it might have been there.

Going to Hillkoff shortly to price a hand crank coffee mill.

The high speed blade grinder works, but has a most irritating noise issue.

The sound of a dental drill screaming, before I have had my coffee, just doesn't work for me.

Just remember that not all hand crank grinders are the same, and burr grinders, even hand cranked, are the best for uniformity of grind. I've seen ceramic burr hand cranked grinders in the states for less than $30 (~940 baht). Hario makes a good one for around $40 (~1300 baht), or you can get a Zassenhaus, which will last you a lifetime, but costs a bit more, starting at around $70 (~2200 baht). A good grinder is the second most important thing (next to good beans) in making good coffee.

Enjoy!

Edited May 30, 2010 by KBTexas

[iSabai]

I'm not the purist that some of you guys are. But I do okay with my Braun (electric) grinder by literally timing how long I grind the beans. After some trial & error experiments, I found that six seconds gives me a fairly consistent grain for both taste and my coffee maker. Main thing for me is getting a fresh ground cup each day. The pre-ground stuff always has a bit of a stale taste to me.

[Genericnic]

Just remember that not all hand crank grinders are the same, and burr grinders, even hand cranked, are the best for uniformity of grind. I've seen ceramic burr hand cranked grinders in the states for less than $30 (~940 baht). Hario makes a good one for around $40 (~1300 baht), or you can get a Zassenhaus, which will last you a lifetime, but costs a bit more, starting at around $70 (~2200 baht). A good grinder is the second most important thing (next to good beans) in making good coffee.

Enjoy!

KB, I had been meaning to ask if there was a place to get a burr grinder in CM. Did you have to import the Zassenhaus or can you get it locally? It will be one less thing to have to bring when I come if I can get it or a similar quality one there.

I agree with you about the grinder being the second most important thing.

David

p.s. What part of Texas are you from? I'm in Austin, at the moment.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Genericnic